Wondering how I feel about new acquaintance, what to do next, whether I was taken advantage of and whether I could be lying to myself

[TheEternalPessimist]

3 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

You’re going from one extreme to the other. Why? She’s nothing more than somebody you met during one of your trips, she’s an acquaintance …… can you accept that? People have friends, close friends, and acquaintances. It’s completely normal!! Close friendships develop slowly, often over many many years. Without being disrespectful - you’re reminding me a lot of somebody (a close friend of mine) who thinks very much in black and white, and I’ve always thought he might be on the spectrum. Smart guy, very nice, good at his job (scientist) - but can’t read between lines and doesn’t get hints. You always need to spell everything out for him in more than clear terms, and if you do, he sometimes gets pouty. 

Well clearly she's decided that she doesn't want a close friendship to develop, she isn't even willing to give it a try which is disappointing to say the least. To her, I will apparently always stay that random guy she met in his home country that one time even though we spent two full days together and I basically acted like her private tour guide. Next time, I won't be doing that. I fail to see why cutting ties with her would be an extreme. Clearly I am not satisfied in this "friendship" and neither is she.

Edited August 25, 2023 by TheEternalPessimist

[ExpatInItaly]

15 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

would still expect her to find 20-30 minutes once every 1-2 weeks to respond. Given that she's apparently not willing to do that yet keeps hypocritically apologizing, I am considering cutting ties with her altogether. 

That's a good idea. 

I think she's just responding to you to be polite at this point. Anyone who can't be bothered to keep in touch more than once a month is not someone who really wants to be friends with you. You need to understand and accept that. 

Time for you to let go. 

[ExpatInItaly]

1 minute ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

we spent two full days together and I basically acted like her private tour guide. Next time, I won't be doing that. 

Wait, have you posted about this before?

This story is sounding very familiar now. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

It's sad especially after everything we talked about and did together, there was absolutely no reason for it to come to this if only she had cared a bit more...

[TheEternalPessimist]

2 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Wait, have you posted about this before?

This story is sounding very familiar now. 

Yes I think I posted about it before but for different reasons. 

[ExpatInItaly]

1 minute ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

Yes I think I posted about it before but for different reasons. 

 And it seems nothing at all has changed since then. She's still as disinterested now as she was then. 

I am sensing that you really have difficulty understading social cues, and you struggle with a sense of entitlement. You also stuggle to let go and instead get pushy when someone is clearly backing away from you. This is not working for you, as evidenced by this woman not keeping in more regular contact. I have no doubt she finds your interactions and behaviour off-putitng and is too polite to directly tell you to take it down a notch. 

When was the last time you spoke to her? 

 

 

[TheEternalPessimist]

Just now, ExpatInItaly said:

 And it seems nothing at all has changed since then. She's still as disinterested now as she was then. 

I am sensing that you really have difficulty understading social cues, and you struggle with a sense of entitlement. You also stuggle to let go and instead get pushy when someone is clearly backing away from you. This is not working for you, as evidenced by this woman not keeping in more regular contact. I have no doubt she finds your interactions and behaviour off-putitng and is too polite to directly tell you to take it down a notch. 

When was the last time you spoke to her? 

 

 

Yes it's precisely because nothing has changed that I've come to the point where I'm considering ending it altogether.

She hasn't kept more regular contact from the very beginning. I gave her plenty of chances to express herself and call me out if needed, it's not my fault if she didn't take them. 

Spoke to her? She sent me paragraphs of text about two weeks ago and I replied with my own paragraphs of text about 2-3 days ago.

[ExpatInItaly]

1 minute ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

She hasn't kept more regular contact from the very beginning.

Exactly. 

And what does that tell you? 

[TheEternalPessimist]

1 minute ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Exactly. 

And what does that tell you? 

Among other things, it tells me she's a hypocrite for proposing and agreeing that we stay in touch. If she knew she was going to be so distant and flaky, she should have simply told me she wasn't interested in ever talking to me or texting with me after the trip and it would have been fine. It would have saved us both but especially me a lot of time and energy.

Edited August 25, 2023 by TheEternalPessimist

[ExpatInItaly]

2 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

If she knew she was going to be so distant and flaky, she should have simply told me she wasn't interested in ever talking to me or texting with me after the trip and it would have been fine.

Do you genuinely believe people relate with others like this? If so, no wonder you are struggling so much. The world is not so rigidly black-and-white. 

5 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

It would have saved us both but especially me a lot of time and energy.

That isn't her problem. It's yours.  You're the one devoting way too much to this. 

7 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

it tells me she's a hypocrite for proposing and agreeing that we stay in touch.

Then why the heck are you still trying to talk to her? if you think she's a hypocrite, it makes absolutely no sense that you would try to keep in touch and much less sense that would plan and visit and expect to stay in her house. 

Bottom line? Forget about the trip. It's a terrible idea. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

1 minute ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Do you genuinely believe people relate with others like this? If so, no wonder you are struggling so much. The world is not so rigidly black-and-white. 

That isn't her problem. It's yours.  You're the one devoting way too much to this. 

Then why the heck are you still trying to talk to her? if you think she's a hypocrite, it makes absolutely no sense that you would try to keep in touch and much less sense that would plan and visit and expect to stay in her house. 

Bottom line? Forget about the trip. It's a terrible idea. 

In this case, yes I do. I didn't in any way force her to stay in touch with me and she had plenty of opportunities since March to remove herself from it all instead of keeping this hypocrisy going. She is as much responsible for keeping this going as I am. 

I'm trying to talk to her less and less, I had some hope that she would adapt to me a bit the same way I've adapted to her but it's becoming obvious she does not care about me. I had hoped I could get her to understand and see things the way I see them but clearly not.

[JTSW]

1 hour ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

Why apologize for something you're doing wrong if you're not actually willing to adjust yourself and change?

Don't go and visit her.

She deserves better that this kind of treatment.

She isn't doing anything wrong just because she doesn't have WhatsApp on her computer and she doesn't owe you any apologies.

[TheEternalPessimist]

2 minutes ago, JTSW said:

Don't go and visit her.

She deserves better that this kind of treatment.

She isn't doing anything wrong just because she doesn't have WhatsApp on her computer and she doesn't owe you any apologies.

Oh I don't really blame her for not having WhatsApp on her computer, this is much bigger than simply this if you care to read carefully what I wrote.

Her treatment has been more than fine, I've treated her with respect, been extremely polite and patient with her but when things remain the same there is perhaps no point in keeping this going.

[JTSW]

I see now why you don't have any local friends and why you are single.

The entitlement coming from you is overwhelming.

Ive tried to be understanding and sympathetic to you but it just gets worse. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by JTSW

[TheEternalPessimist]

Who said I was single?

What entitlement? You call 'entitlement' expecting someone to communicate with me better and to not be incoherent. I'm sorry but that's not entitlement.

And no you haven't tried to be understand or sympathetic to me, don't lie.

Edited August 25, 2023 by TheEternalPessimist

[ExpatInItaly]

37 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I didn't in any way force her to stay in touch with me and she had plenty of opportunities since March to remove herself from it all

This makes no sense. 

Why should she? She's fine being very casual acquaintances who catch up sometimes. It's you who can't handle that.

14 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

You call 'entitlement' expecting someone to communicate with me better and to not be incoherent. I'm sorry but that's not entitlement.

Yes, it is. You're incredibly entitled. I can see why she's kept you at arm's length. The fact that you are clueless about this is concerning, but I don't think it's something anyone here can help you with. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

1 minute ago, ExpatInItaly said:

This makes no sense. 

Why should she? She's fine being very casual acquaintances who catch up sometimes. It's you who can't handle that.

Yes, it is. You're incredibly entitled. I can see why she's kept you at arm's length. The fact that you are clueless about this is concerning, but I don't think it's something anyone here can help you with. 

I can't even call what she does being casual acquaintances, this is an even lower degree than that, there is probably no word in the English language to describe whatever it is we "have". She has never once stopped to think if I was ok with that while I'm getting attacked here for not adapting enough to her. This goes back to people here and elsewhere requiring that I constantly adapt to someone while never holding the other party to the same criteria.

If I was incredibly entitled, I would be harrassing her every day or every week demanding she talk to me on the phone, I would be showing up in her city unannounced and would demand that we hang out. Have I done any of that? No I have not nor will I ever do that because that's just not who I am, in fact I've given her a lot of space. Expecting some basic decency and respect is not entitlement. 

[ExpatInItaly]

10 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I can't even call what she does being casual acquaintances

Then why aren't you taking the hint? 

 

[TheEternalPessimist]

3 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Then why aren't you taking the hint? 

 

Because I had hopes that she would realize a thing or two over time especially after I mentioned some of the things I wasn't entirely ok with. Also, once she began apologizing, I really believed she would change but ultimately I guess I was wrong and this was nothing but a smokescreen. In general, I will say this: Hints are incredibly childish and lame. They are a sneaky and extremely hypocritical way of "saying" privately what you are too afraid to say openly. Plus it's not like I didn't tell her about 2 months ago that I think we needed to communicate better.

[BrinnM]

11 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

nothing but a smokescreen. In general, I will say this: Hints are incredibly childish and lame. They are a sneaky and extremely hypocritical way of "saying" privately what you are too afraid to say openly

Well, it depends on the culture. Here in the U.S., and in large parts of Europe, for example, you learn from a young age how to be polite, and less direct. You don’t want to be the elephant in the china shop. Or rude. Or hurtful. For instance: if somebody who you are not that close with asks you how their outfit looks on them, you will never tell them - as per the cultural norms - that it looks bad. You will not tell them they smell. If you ask her - who is a distant friend/an acquaintance - to be in touch more, she probably doesn’t want to be the “elephant” either. Therefore, she says oh I’m sorry I have been busy and I’m not the best in tech, so I haven’t installed WhatsApp yet. This is the polite version of “you are really demanding & suffocating, I have no time for this” 

She is just being polite. You 2 either come from different cultures, or you simply have a problem understanding social norms & cues. 
 

This reminds me of a trip to Turkey. I was sitting in a park with my bestie (we travel together a lot), and a guy sits down next to us and we start a conversation with him. A looong one! Think 2 hours or so ……. It was a very pleasant convo and he explained a lot to us. History and all. Local politics etc.

He gets us two coffees from a coffee shop nearby, talks a lot about his country and he wants to show us around the next day. He insists in exchanging phone numbers. We made other plans the next day and never met up with him, but he literally showed up at our hotel and demanded an explanation as to why we made other plans. Like what? He then cussed us out and called us “rude” and other not so nice names. I think this was a cultural difference. With you I’m not sure what it is - could be cultural or something else 

[TheEternalPessimist]

The problem is that by not saying things clearly right from the get go and by letting things unfold, what you eventually end up doing is making everything worse. I told her as much without putting the blame on her yet she keeps insisting with her lame hints regardless..God knows what she truly thinks, I will never find out. This has been dragging on in large part due to her refusal to tell me how she really feels and hoping I just magically guess everything out of nowhere. Well she will get what she wants because I am almost certainly ending this so-called friendship.

Edited August 25, 2023 by TheEternalPessimist

[BrinnM]

I just explained it. She doesn’t want to hurt you or appear rude. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

4 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

I just explained it. She doesn’t want to hurt you or appear rude. 

Well she has managed to hurt me and appear rude regardless, hence my point that hints over time just end up making everything worse. Literally, I can't think of a single instance in my life where hints and not saying things clearly has helped improve a situation. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by TheEternalPessimist

[ExpatInItaly]

You're not getting it. 

She doesn't need to "realize" anything. She simply doesn't want what you want out of this. 

So let it go and don't keep in contact. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

Yeah I will, I just wish she didn't keep this hypocrisy going for as long as she has especially when she had plenty of opportunities to end this or to at the very least speak out, tell me how she feels about it etc.