Advance apology for my twisted thought (merged threads)

[basil67]

4 hours ago, jeniefriday said:

Suzie, I don't want to marry MM. I don't want him to divorce his wife as well. And I'll admit that I'm crazy twisted because I want what MM's wife has - his child. I guess I put MM on a pedestal. In my mind he's like so good in every sense and that his wife is the luckiest woman in the world to have him. And since she doesn't know about the affair, she's probably the happiest woman in the world (and no, I don't intend to let her know about us)

I hate it that I'm so irrational about this and that's why I post, hoping someone would knock sense into my head. 

I think you missed the point.   What if you were to have his baby and his wife pushed him to go for 50/50 custody?   Because I tell you, if I found out that my children had a half sibling, I'd also be pushing my husband to go 50/50 custody.  The child deserves to know their whole family, not just the mother and her side. 

[Suzie93]

Jennie, I’m glad you reached out for feedback….his wife and kid/s will find out—it’s inevitable, and there’s a huge chance she will leave him, and his current kids will lose all respect for him. If she chooses to keep him around, it will likely involve fully cutting you off. If they decide to bring the child in their lives, they will file for custody, but it will not be some happy co parenting fantasy. Either way, he and a lot of other people will despise you in a way they probably never envisioned despising another human being. I’ve read extensively on this subject as you can imagine, seeking out everything I can about how this affects the affair child. It’s typically not a pretty picture. You clearly reached out for advice because you know that your plan is problematic. I recommend getting some reputable counseling asap and focus on trying to find peace, happiness, and fulfillment in your life in a way that is sustainable. Please don’t bring an innocent child into this mess. I stayed with my husband because I made my own mistakes in the past, because I wanted stability for my kids (without the toxic s—-show), and ultimately because my husband share a world together that I wasn’t ready to upend at the time. But this trauma is with me everyday and that’s what it is—trauma. And that’s me—a relatively (finally) well adjusted adult with options and financial freedom who was able to ultimately have a say in the decisions about how I would live my life. A baby doesn’t have those options to escape the dysfunction. I wish you the best and hope you will really take this feedback to heart. 

[BaileyB]

7 hours ago, jeniefriday said:

I hate it that I'm so irrational about this and that's why I post, hoping someone would knock sense into my head. 

Read and reread Susie’s post again, and again, and again. Take it to discuss with a counsellor.

I too agree that you have missed the point, but I hope that you get it soon. It’s not about YOU. It doesn’t matter if you do/do not want to marry your MM or whether you do/do not want him to divorce his wife. The decision to have his baby is a selfish decision that will cause pain and trauma for everyone involved - whether you intend it or not. This will include your MM, his wife, his other children, your child, and ultimately yourself. That trauma already exists - the consequences have just not been felt yet but they will, when/if you get pregnant. This is not something that you can keep secret. You also can’t control this, once it is discovered you lose control - you will ultimately be at the mercy of his wife in many ways… whether she decides to include your child in their family life (you lose full custody of your child - how would that feel, to have his wife raising your child and for your child to have a relationship with his wife), whether she decides that he should end his relationship with you (he may also decide this himself). It is unlikely to be the happy ending that you predict - this love child that will bond you with this man for life. You, and perhaps your innocent child, are likely to be put  out - it will end your affair and you will find yourself alone and having to deal with your marriage - 

Take Susie’s wise words and read them again and again… 

Edited November 30, 2022 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

10 hours ago, jeniefriday said:

Suzie, I don't want to marry MM. I don't want him to divorce his wife as well. And I'll admit that I'm crazy twisted because I want what MM's wife has - his child. I guess I put MM on a pedestal. In my mind he's like so good in every sense and that his wife is the luckiest woman in the world to have him. And since she doesn't know about the affair, she's probably the happiest woman in the world (and no, I don't intend to let her know about us)

I hate it that I'm so irrational about this and that's why I post, hoping someone would knock sense into my head. 

All or most OW are jealous of the wife who has no idea she even exists so nothing is new there.  You just need to get your head out of the clouds and be realistic.  You said earlier you stay with your husband because:

 

On 11/29/2022 at 2:27 AM, jeniefriday said:

Because I'm a selfish person who wants a husband to keep me company when I need him. Because I want to keep up a perfect family image. Because I fear the unknown.

You want have your husband and certainly won't have MM.  If you blow up his life by falling pregnant he will probably not speak to you again and just handle everything through an attorney, especially if his wife finds out, and she will.  You'll just be a single woman with a baby to raise on her own.

[Stret]

I haven't read all the comments so apologies if someone already pointed it out before. 

What I wanted to say is that what you are feeling is not twisted - it is deeply engrained in out nature and physical being to want to procreate with the men that we're sexually compatible with. A bit animalistic if you will, but definitely natural and understandable. However, we are not just physical beings, we are also spiritual beings and thinking beings. As such, you should not let your body dictate the most important decision in your life - whom to have a child with. You have to think first and foremost of your child. I want to tell you to leave your husband, leave your affair partner, and find yourself a single man you're sexually compatible with, who can be a good dad too. Child deserves at least a shot to have a stable and healthy family. What you have with your husband is not happy and healthy. You are bottling up things on the inside, and so is he probably.  

If your affair partner also wants to have a kid that he doesn't want to father, that tells you he is not the good guy, not very nice person to his wife, to you, or to his potential child. He's acting like a child himself, like it's all a game. It is not. If you're planning to bring a kid into this messed up world, and on the top of that into unhappy or unhealthy environment, you're not doing her/him any favour. Your sexual urges and animal instincts shouldn't dictate important decisions. 

[Noproblem]

You are having a great sex because you don't have a baby.

Once you get a baby, everything will change and sometimes for worse.

Enjoy whatever this sexual relationship you have until it reaches its limit.

There is no point of you being married anyway. Get divorce, so you don't hurt the other person.

The baby thing is your hormones playing trickes on you, coz they enslave us with many needs and wants.

You wanna be his baby moma

whatever is that, your baby won't apprciate his daddy that is not really his daddy

He'll get older and resent you and his daddy because you were both cheaters.

and he'll either become like you or compelete opposite.

Now, why would you add such drama to your life.

Get divorce, go date until you find a guy who can give you what you need, and say bye to this MM

[Wiseman2]

On 11/28/2022 at 9:25 PM, jeniefriday said:

 I am content with us being having fun together once or twice a month. 

 I feel I'd be alright if I have my own baby with him. 

Are you using contraception or protection? Either with the husband or the lover? Is it possible to get pregnant with the husband? If so, you may not be sure whose it is if you were to become pregnant. Having sex once or twice a month doesn't seem like fun or the best timing as far as fertility goes. 

[ExpatInItaly]

OP, if I may be very blunt: you are delusional if you think having his baby will "bond" you to him in a special way. You are in for a terribly cold reality check if you proceed with this plan. 

It's an enormouosly selfish reason to have a child. 

A kid is not a pawn to use to permanently attach yourself to someone you can't have. 

[Will am I]

On 11/29/2022 at 3:25 AM, jeniefriday said:

I understand I may be judged as someone immoral or twisted, but your thoughts and advice are much appreciated. I am a MW having an affair with a MM. After going through books, podcasts and hours of self-instrospection, I came to a conclusion that I entered marriage with a very twisted mindset. Basically I was the only child and I was afraid of loneliness. There was also a lot of pressure to get married and have children where I lived. So, I settled with a man who was "husband-material" - stable income, good character, etc, EXCEPT we are not sexually compatible and he has ED. Sex felt torturous through our decade long marriage because I had to do a lot of things such as moaning loudly to make him come.

A marriage is a complex relationship with different aspects. One aspect is where the two of you are a team and tackle life together. Another aspect is romance and sexuality. A third aspect is a spiritual connection. Essentially you're very unhappy in one of these aspects, in particular the sexual aspect. If it's really important to you, you should consider leaving the marriage. Instead you are trying to make complicated arrangements where you can cherry pick parts of the marriage that you do like and supplement them with other pieces in other relationships.

 

I will provide a male perspective in this.

 

I think it's very hurtful for your husband, He gets to be your buddy, your provider, some more things, but another man gets the cherry on the pie. We don't read his opinion here, but for a man this might feel like he's paying to support you while others take advantage, a huge blow in the face of his dignity.  I think a lot of men would not accept that arangement.

Which is probably the reason why it's an affair (hidden, covert) and not an open marriage.

 

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I met MM half a year ago and for the first time in my life, I had a mind-blowing sex. I had two ex-boyfriends before getting married but I never felt such intense sexual chemistry with anyone like I felt with MM. 

The main problem now is I really want to have a baby with MM. And MM kept saying he wants to have a baby with me too. I don't need MM to leave his wife. In fact, I don't want to marry MM and go through all that marriage adjustments all over again. I also don't want to deal with trust issues too since we are both cheaters right? I am content with us being having fun together once or twice a month. 

Now this would blur the lines so much more. Now the relationship that covers the area of "sex" suddenly gets a whole new dimension called "baby". Whereas the affair now exists merely in a defined time and space (the sex), it would through the baby contaminate all other areas of your marriage. 

I'm not a big fan of evolutionary psychology (I think it flattens us out to primitive creatures). But in EP it's supposedly a man's worst scenario to becaring and providing for a baby that's not his own.

 

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I am also non-chalant about him having sex with his wife.

Sorry for the pun, but as an AP you're not really in a position to complain about that. That's not a nice position to be in, but then you wanted to be an AP.

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The only thought I couldn't bear is if his wife gets pregnant again. But I feel I'd be alright if I have my own baby with him. 

Now here's a big deal. If you find yourself jealous of the idea of your AP's wife conceiving a child with him, this is a very clear sign that your feelings for your AP have outgrown the affair space.

 

I'm not very judgemental about affairs and falling in love outside the marriage, but this is situation is derailing way beyond.

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Will am I

[jeniefriday]

These thoughts are driving me crazy. They invade my heads several times a day. I can't afford therapies, so any advice would be much appreciated. I keep thinking MM's wife is so lucky to have him marry her. MM does all the heavy-duty houseworks - laundry, mopping the floor, washing the washrooms. He buys her whatever she wants and he's so good on bed.

It drives me crazy that I can't have a man like MM. And she would continue to live blissfully as long as she doesn't discover about the affair. I keep thinking of a social ranking system where I belong to the lowest class while MM's wife occupies the top ranks.

I might also be suffering from a low-grade depression as I don't find anything in life enjoyable anymore. I lost interest in travelling, eating good food, going to the spa, watching good movies, all the things I used to enjoy. I found myself done with my life until I met MM, then suddenly I found myself feeling alive again. But of course he's also the source of a lot of pains. If I lose MM, what am I going to do with my life? 

[Starswillshine]

Let's set a couple of things straight:

Do you really think any wife is lucky to be married to a man who cheats on her?

Do you think a man who looks at his wife every day, tells her he loves her, and lies about what goes on behind her back is truthful to you? 

This man is a liar and a cheat. You cannot trust anything he says. Part of affairs is the triangulation... the competition between wife and OW. The wife, of course, does not know there is a competition. If she does, she might just gift over the jerk to the poor OW who can then full that wife role. 

 

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, jeniefriday said:

If I lose MM, what am I going to do with my life? 

What will you do when you lose your husband?  Think about that for a minute and how you will feel.  If you get caught with MM you more than likely will lose them both. You could do the right thing and divorce the husband you don't want or love and find a single men who will make you happy.  You'll never have MM.

[BaileyB]

Indeed, his wife does not “win” here. He is no prize. 

The fact that you think a man who is dishonest, untrustworthy, and unfaithful is a prize is a problem for you.

If you can’t afford a counsellor, you should see a doctor as you may benefit from medication. What’s more, exercise can have as much benefit as medication - and it’s free. So, my best advice is to start moving and end all contact with this MM. Reach out to friends and family, join a running group or an exercise group, learn how to knit, go to the local library and take out some self help books - there is lots you can do to help yourself. I understand that you don’t want to do it, the depression makes you want to sit right where you are… focused on your MM and his lovely wife… But, only you can change your circumstance. Good luck. 

[Luna66star]

I agree with other posters.  He's no prize.  You only see what he wants you to see.  This man has negative qualities like everyone else.  He's wearing a mask.  How can you respect a cheater?  Often OW think there is this ultra special connection with MM, and we romanticize our feelings.  He's doing all these wonderful things for the wife as that's who he really loves.  Sure he can have feelings for you too but who is most important to him?  The wife.  You are his dessert.  I don't mean to sound harsh here.  Look at the reality.  The more we hang on to their threads of attention, the lower our self esteem goes.   You are a beautiful, worthy woman who deserves to come first in a man's life!  Please let him go and date single men.  MM is NOT the only man on this planet who you will have a fabulous connection with.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MsJayne]

If you're experiencing depression a relationship won't fix it, especially not one with a lying cheat.  It sounds like you have anhedonia as part of your depression, so maybe doing a bit of research on that might help you to at least understand what's happening to you. Sometimes medication's necessary to help your brain produce the chemicals needed to be happy and interested in life again, so perhaps consult with a GP if you haven't already.  Re: your question about what will you do with your life if you lose the MM......well, the fact that you're seeing this guy as your whole life is the giveaway that you're not in love with him, you're just emotionally dependent on him, and they're two very different things. You want him to rescue you but he has neither the inclination or the resources to do that, only you can rescue you. If you be the one to end it you might find your self-esteem will improve and your mood lift a little as the result of that, and eventually you might even meet an available man who aspires to more than mopping the floor and doing the laundry. Just on that point, household tasks are not "heavy duty" - we have appliances that make them very easy, so if he's painting himself as Super-Husband because he knows how to wield a mop maybe you need to ask questions - why is he doing the housework? Is his wife out working while he faffs about with his feather duster? What proof do you have that he "buys her whatever she wants" ? Why doesn't he buy her a cleaning lady if she needs help with the housework? I suspect she would have a very different story than his and that he's a massive loser who's using you and making you ill. Please put yourself first, you're worth much more than being Laundry Boy's piece on the side. 

[Wiseman2]

21 hours ago, jeniefriday said:

 I can't afford therapies. I might also be suffering from a low-grade depression as I don't find anything in life enjoyable anymore. 

 Do you have health insurance? Go to a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Get some tests done. Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist.

Read up on depression if you think you have that. There are many causes and treatments. Contact the national mental health hotline. They will talk to you and help you find affordable care.

Being in a bad place can unfortunately contribute to making bad choices such as associating with unavailable people who sadly you center your life around, but you're just a hobby for them.

[jeniefriday]

I'm really sorry it's probably the same issue again and again. I could not get myself out of bed for the last three days.

Day 1: I decided I did not want to suffer anymore and told MM let's just stop here and not see each other again. He refused saying how could I be so heartless, and he would go mad etc etc. He said I always overthink things and all the pains were in my head. I brought it up again a few hours later and he said it was late at night, let's discuss tomorrow and let him be alone. I ended up not being able to sleep thinking this was it, the end. The love of my life was gone forever. I had cold sweats several times that night, it was hard to breathe. I checked my phone a few times to see if he texted. 

Day 2: 7 am he texted me good morning and I love you. It's as if I got my drug fix and all pains disappeared from my body. When your happiness does not come from within, those words "I love you", "I miss you" , work like life sustenance. 

In the evening, he texted me saying he was going to the mall with his wife who was going to get a new dress and eyelash extension. I am not exaggerating to say that this innocent text gave me physical pain.

It was so ridiculous I wanted to be her! I told myself if I were her, I don't care if my hubby cheats, because I have him, and he chooses me over the sidechick and my hubby is a high-value man so popular among girls but I triumph over the hordes of women who were after him. And I'm going to look so hot to make all the girls so jealous of me, that I have a trophy husband and we look so good together.

Day 3: MM told me about his future business plans. My mind immediately raced to his wife again and started fantasizing over how lucky she is to have such an entrepreneural husband, how she is going to be a rich man's wife and lives comfortably and blissfully the rest of her life. 

Those thoughts consumed me so much that I had no strength to get out of bed for three days and counting. 

I watched many youtube videos on how to deal with envy and jealousy. But all of them say that the object of jealousy is a sign that something is missing in my life and he/she could instead be my inspiration. But the missing puzzle in my life is MM and I can't have him! I could be successful, beautiful but I would never have MM!

How do I let go of these obsessive thoughts? How would I be able to let go of MM? I feel entitled to MM, why should she have him just because she met him first? My advance apology for my broken moral compass.

 

 

 

[JTSW]

1 hour ago, jeniefriday said:

It was so ridiculous I wanted to be her! I told myself if I were her, I don't care if my hubby cheats, because I have him, and he chooses me over the sidechick and my hubby is a high-value man so popular among girls but I triumph over the hordes of women who were after him. And I'm going to look so hot to make all the girls so jealous of me, that I have a trophy husband and we look so good together.

This is the very irrational and unrealistic part of your mind at work.

No woman would be happy if their husband was cheating.

No woman would be happy if hordes of women chased her husband.

He has you completely enmeshed and deluded.

Keep telling yourself over and over that 'he is married, never leaving his wife'.

Block him from contacting you otherwise you will never move on.

1 hour ago, jeniefriday said:

I would never have MM!

Also keep telling yourself this.

He is bad for you and he doesn't love you. He just loves what he gets from you.

Seek therapy.

[jeniefriday]

42 minutes ago, JTSW said:

Keep telling yourself over and over that 'he is married, never leaving his wife'.

How do I get over the feeling that I'm "beneath" his wife, that I don't have what it takes to get such a man to marry me?

[JTSW]

3 minutes ago, jeniefriday said:

How do I get over the feeling that I'm "beneath" his wife, that I don't have what it takes to get such a man to marry me?

You are not beneath his wife at all.

You have had your head completely turned by an unavailable MM and fallen for all his BS.

You are blinded by those rose tinted specs that show he's the perfect man when he's not.

He's a lying cheating rat with charm.

Block his number and anywhere he can contact you.

It's going to be a very hard bumpy road but you will get there. 

You just have to be strong.

[jeniefriday]

1 hour ago, JTSW said:

Block his number and anywhere he can contact you.

Tricky, he's my biggest customer.

[BaileyB]

4 hours ago, jeniefriday said:

The love of my life was gone forever.

The love of your life is not another woman’s husband. 

4 hours ago, jeniefriday said:

In the evening, he texted me saying he was going to the mall with his wife who was going to get a new dress and eyelash extension. I am not exaggerating to say that this innocent text gave me physical pain.

You are jealous and competitive with his wife because he fuels this feeling. What kind of a jerk says “No, you can’t do this to me” when you tell him that you want to end the relationship and then… later that day, tells you that he’s out shopping with his wife. 

Do you have a physician? I would strongly advise you to speak with your physician about your depression. Exercise has proven to be as effective as meds for mild/moderate depression - I would strongly suggest that you get moving and talk with your physician about medication. Perhaps they can also provide some free mental health supports because you are in desperate need of counselling. 

 

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, jeniefriday said:

How do I get over the feeling that I'm "beneath" his wife, that I don't have what it takes to get such a man to marry me?

Put your big girl panties on and tell her about the affair you're having with her husband.  She deserves to know.  Telling her is the best way to bring this thing to a head and relieve the pressure.  If he's so in love with you as you said he will handle it.  Or, leave your husband.   Part of the pain you feel is your own selfishness of holding onto a man you don't love just to have one around.  You can't expect to be happy when you're doing what you're doing to another person.  Life doesn't work that way.

Edited January 11, 2023 by stillafool

[BaileyB]

18 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Put your big girl panties on and tell her about the affair you're having with her husband.  She deserves to know.  Telling her is the best way to bring this thing to a head and relieve the pressure.  If he's so in love with you as you said he will handle it. 

Be prepared to lose your affair partner and your biggest client. If he doesn’t leave her, or if she doesn’t kick his sorry begins to the curb, he is likely to drop you and that is going to be devastating.

20 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Part of the pain you feel is your own selfishness of holding onto a man you don't love just to have one around.  You can't expect to be happy when you're doing what you're doing to another person.  Life doesn't work that way.

No. Nor can you expect to be happy when you have convinced yourself that the love of your life is married to another woman. 

This is an untenable situation for you OP, for several reasons. Something has got to give - and right now, that appears to be your own mental health. Seek help. 

[jeniefriday]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

Part of the pain you feel is your own selfishness of holding onto a man you don't love just to have one around.  You can't expect to be happy when you're doing what you're doing to another person.  Life doesn't work that way.

I agree..