Searching for Answers (Long)

[AlmostOverIt]

Just looking for thoughts and trying to be clear with examples. Probably has a lot of bad grammar, sorry. I appreciate any thoughts.

I’m in my 40s and a common reaction I get is that I look like I am in my early 30s, I look young for my age. Have all my hair, no gray hair, and have had success with attractive women in the past, but it’s rare. If I go to a bar or party with male friends, every one of them will at some point over the course of a year or so have a woman show interest, come and talk to them, engage them in small talk, eye them from across the bar and come over to them out of the blue, where you can see the woman is clearly interested in talking to them… but I can’t remember the last time I even got a second glance. I honestly can’t remember the last time I said hello to a single woman at a social gathering that wasn’t met with a palpable reaction of disinterest, or one that seemed happy I approached her.

I dress ok. I am not loud or obnoxious. Self-aware, smell good, don’t have bad breath, etc. I don’t use bad lines or dumb jokes as openers. I guess to give an idea of how I look, I’m 6’1, 210, good shape, I have had a couple of people the past few years say I look a lot like Charlie Sheen or Ethan Hawke so it’s not like they say I look like Wilford Brimley or something. My feeling is I am a 6/10, maybe a 7 if a girl is drunk. So I think I look at least average for my age and not repulsive. I am very approachable.

So the issue is for example, I have a friend who was at the bar when a girl next to him ordered a fruity drink and he said nothing more than, “Oh, that looks good” and her eyes will lit up and she said, “Oh, yeah it’s great. It’s my friend’s birthday and we love these drinks and bla, bla, bla, you should come over and sing happy birthday to her…”. That is absolutely never the reaction I get. I tend to get immediate noticeable defensive reactions and complete lack of interest before I even really get 2 words out. If I said that, I am 90% certain the woman would say, “I have a boyfriend” immediately despite her being single and desperate for a boyfriend.

My friends and their wives seem surprised when I tell them I only really get bad reactions so I don’t think they see me being creepy or offensive in those situations when they are around. They have indicated like they think I do well dating and must date a lot but I’m like you would be hard pressed to find anyone worse off than me in getting negative reactions before I have even really said a word.

One thing I find kind of weird, is I get a lot of women ask me why I am not married and they have the same basic assumption, they think I just like to date several women at once and keep a woman in every port instead of committing. Two women in the past years almost verbatim said, “I don’t understand it, you are the whole package”. They both actually said “whole package”, which seems like a good compliment to me. It throws me off because I’m like, I can’t get a date to save my life. I can’t get even one single women to be interested in talking to me even a little. I’d settle for just one fairly nice rejection that didn’t involve me being insulted at this point. Even a glance that I mistake as maybe interest would be nice but I don't even get that.

All these things have become more noticeable because what little attention I might have drawn in the past has all dried up recently, but my other friends always have women approach them or start a conversation with them and frankly, some of my friends are far from lookers. If I am there talking to a friend and a woman approaches and talks to him, they won’t even make eye contact with me and act like I am not standing there and won’t acknowledge me. That one hurts for sure. Then 3 other women will approach him throughout the night and ignore me to.

It happens in bars, stores, gas stations, wherever. I’ll go to the store with a normal looking friend, and we walk in and immediately some attractive woman will walk up to him, ignore me, and ask him where the green beans are because she needs to make a casserole and 10 minutes of conversation later, she is giving him her number and inviting him to dinner. That never, ever, happens to me.

One thing I have noticed throughout the years is for whatever reason, women will be predisposed to bad/weird reactions to me in situations where it doesn’t call for it. Like I’ll see a woman drop a $100 bill out of her purse and pick it up and say, “Excuse me, this just dropped out of your purse” and she’ll turn and start tearing into me. I’ll just be there like what just happened and then she’ll look at me funny and say, “Oh, I dropped that? I thought you were trying to give me $100 to go home with you…” and she will still be kinda put off by me even after she knows she was mistaken. I’ll ask my friends if I mumbled or if she could have heard anything remotely like that and they’ll say no, they were 6’ farther away from me and on the other side of the table and they heard me clearly. It happens enough times that it is more than a coincidence.

Like I’ll be engaged in small talk and a woman will say, “I’m Irish” and I’ll say clearly, “Well that explains the pretty green eyes” and she’ll be taken aback and get mad and say, “What does that mean?!”. I get kind of lost and say, “uh, it means your eyes are green and pretty?” Then she’ll say, “Oh, I didn’t know what you meant” and the conversation pretty much ends there and am I lost at how that could be interpreted in a bad way unless she was predisposed to disliking me.

I have had a very attractive friend tell me she felt overweight and thought she looked gross and I honestly said, “I don’t think you are overweight by any stretch of the imagination or gross, I think you might be judging yourself a little harshly” and she got a little mad and said not to make fun if her. I asked in what universe would what I said be considered making fun of her and she said, “oh, I thought you were being sarcastic”. I asked her if what I said sounded sarcastic and she said “No, not really” and I’m just like, ok, where do we go from here? How do I respond to that? I gave her a compliment that sounded like a compliment to her, but she took it as an insult. So she then knew it was a compliment but I am sure subconsciously still felt like I somehow made fun of her. This doesn’t really happen to other guys that I see. It happens to me. A lot.

I guess I am looking for any thoughts other women have as what guys do to be so absolutely repelling that they don’t ever get a second look and get immediate bad reactions in friendly social situations where everyone is having fun. What would make you instantly offended at first sight by someone you never met and never talked to just being there? Like if a guy said, “Hey…” to get your attention, what might set you off before he said another word whereas if someone else says. “Hey”, you would be welcoming? What might make you default to being insulted by someone giving you a compliment?  

I am just trying to understand why some women think I am normal or in demand or dateable and other women would see me in the extreme like I have no business even thinking about talking to them. I just can’t put my finger on the polar opposite reactions I get for doing the same things as other guys and just looking for view points to consider. When I see other guys, they walk up to a girl ask her out, go out with them. Doesn't work out, two days later, walk up to another girl, ask her out, go out with them. I can go years with so much as a second glance let alone get any interest in a date, I just can't find a single reason that instantly turns women off from me in such a way that even the least attractive most obnoxious guys I know, seem to not have to deal with. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[chillii]

Sounds like you come across a helluva a lot of hyper defensive prickly women , l can say that much. l never touch personalities like that who could be bothered with them. Even though they were often just encounters , you can still pickem at a glance usually never bother with women like that. The friend, hmm, could say the same. Could be your area or city too , different places different mentalities and def' different women no matter what country.

l'm male btw so maybe women will drop in here and have ideas of what's happening , sounds like a vibe though , or maybe your too nice to these types that don't deserve it , they smell it, l dunno. Hard to say without more. You talk a lot about looks though , and most of the struggling guys do , and the same about their average friends that walk of with women . But they never get it, it's not all just about looks. ln your case you might actually be too much that so called package you talk about , another thing a lot if struggling guys don't get. Women are often just more comfortable around the average guy more so than mr perfect. Mind you, l've probably worded all that wrong but ahwell l don't have much time for replies.

Edited February 8, 2022 by chillii

[Wiseman2]

Have you tried getting a good profile and pics on quality dating apps? Bars and gas stations may not be the best places to try to pick up women.

Do you have your own place? A good job and decent car? 

Why don't you join some groups clubs and get involved in sports and fitness?  Volunteer.

Try to start talking to women from the standpoint of common interests without worrying about hitting on them or if less attractive men are getting more attention.

Try not to think of yourself as "40 but looks 30". 

[AlmostOverIt]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Have you tried getting a good profile and pics on quality dating apps? Bars and gas stations may not be the best places to try to pick up women.

Do you have your own place? A good job and decent car? 

Why don't you join some groups clubs and get involved in sports and fitness?  Volunteer.

Try to start talking to women from the standpoint of common interests without worrying about hitting on them or if less attractive men are getting more attention.

Try not to think of yourself as "40 but looks 30". 

So all good thoughts, thanks.

I make over 6 figures, great job. Pretty large house with a huge pool, I have a lot of parties in the summer.  I have a car that women always like, it's sometimes a good conversation piece, it's a little bit of an attention getting car but not over the top. I don't lead with any of those things or use it to show status. I only point out the specifics because in conversation they will ask and it comes out, but the "stability" provided in those things doesn't ever push me over the edge. Like women approve, but it's never a deal closer.

I am pretty open with my age, age doesn't really bother me, I just get a lot of surprise when I say it. I think sometimes with women in my age range it rules me out because they assume I am much younger and when they find out, maybe I've already been ruled out. To be clear, I am late 40s, I act my age I think but I feel I aged better than a lot of people so I don't feel like I look old and get ruled out on looks. So late 40s and looking early 30s seems like a plus on my side, I don't know if I go out thinking I am old but look young, maybe I do, but I was giving an example to say that other guys my age get unsolicited attention that I don't but I don't feel my looks necessarily stop me from getting the same attention.

I don't get out as much or do as many activities or new things because frankly, it seems everything I do is a bunch of married people and me, which is expected at my age but is a downer. I play two sports. One sport I do always seems to impress them. Like, Oh wow, you do that. It gets a lot of "play". but I'm low key on that and really never push it like, "look at me, I play XXX". I play in 2 leagues with ex pros and it is a good conversation piece, I see it work for other guys but not really for me when they "brag" about it a little. A friend has parties probably every other month with a lot of people there. I get along ok with single women at the parties but it's not uncommon for them in the first 2 minutes of conversation say, "That guy over there is cute, what's his deal?", which is a gut punch of course.

I belong to a couple of group things, really no single women. A friend runs group events and I go to quite a few of them. Some are actually run on behalf of a women's group. I get introduced to woman and basically get a handshake and nice to meet you, I have to say hi to my friend over there and leaves. I don't even get a chance, she's saying it as she's shaking my hand. I'll see her later at a buffet and say something like, "Oh, what's that you have that looks really good..." just to open the door. The most I get is, "I don't know. Some kind of chicken" and she turns and walks away. I watch other guys do the same thing and they get, "It's some kind of BBQ chicken. It looks really good doesn't it? They really have a nice buffet here. Do you come to a lot of these events?". I guess it's basically if I get the opportunity, the door is quickly closed on me noticeably. I will say if the woman is married, she might be the most attractive woman you have ever seen, I don't get that at all. I get very open and engaging responses.

I asked a friend to watch one time when I approached single women when we were out. He does really well and is not some super stud but draws attention easily. I just wanted to know if my openers were closing the door. I didn't force opportunity, just tried to make small talk when the opportunity presented itself. His response was pretty much all of their reactions were initial, "nope. not interested' and it was dead before I said a word but he thought it was weird because I was pretty casual and wasn't closing doors with anything I was saying. He was just kind of like, he would expect they would have been more engaging with me. He said he never really gets the reaction I got doing the same thing and then just laughed it off. Later he was at the bar and one of them came up and chatted him up. I talked with her too and she was engaging then but it was clear it was because she was interested in him.

I have done dating apps in the past and I think I went on 3 dates, all were good dates, I met nice, attractive women. I hate dating apps though. Frankly I have to meet someone in person to know if I am attracted, to read body language and get a true indication if we click. It's like the whole dynamic doesn't work for me in general though. I find it extremely frustrating to come up with "something interesting" to say to someone I have only seen a picture of who's profile is, "Don't just say hi, wow me with something that sets you apart" because whatever I come up with is a line or something funny, etc. Not really judging but it just rings lame and feels like, be a "generic" different from other guys. In general I feel dating apps are a lot of work for little potential payoff.

 

[AlmostOverIt]

17 hours ago, chillii said:

Sounds like you come across a helluva a lot of hyper defensive prickly women , l can say that much. l never touch personalities like that who could be bothered with them. Even though they were often just encounters , you can still pickem at a glance usually never bother with women like that. The friend, hmm, could say the same. Could be your area or city too , different places different mentalities and def' different women no matter what country.

l'm male btw so maybe women will drop in here and have ideas of what's happening , sounds like a vibe though , or maybe your too nice to these types that don't deserve it , they smell it, l dunno. Hard to say without more. You talk a lot about looks though , and most of the struggling guys do , and the same about their average friends that walk of with women . But they never get it, it's not all just about looks. ln your case you might actually be too much that so called package you talk about , another thing a lot if struggling guys don't get. Women are often just more comfortable around the average guy more so than mr perfect. Mind you, l've probably worded all that wrong but ahwell l don't have much time for replies.

I think maybe it is vibe too. I will say in the past, I have had times where I was not looking, not trying, and on absolute fire. Like I could do no wrong. But I can get that magic back it seems. It was a weird feeling vibe I felt myself have at that time and it played but I have tried often to just go an have fun and not try, yet when I see others get approached andI get nothing it does get to be a downer after a while. I mean I go out to have fun now, at this point I am not looking, not hoping, whatever but nothing presents itself.

I will say historically for me it comes in waves but that's kind of worse. Like I'll go a year without one sign of interest. Then in a span of a week I'll get 3 women with strong interest and it sucks because I don't juggle well but I am just left like, what just happened? I am not doing anything differently than I did the last year. In fact, I had more opportunity over the last year but not 1 sign of interest.

Edited February 8, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[AlmostOverIt]

10 hours ago, chillii said:

Sounds like you come across a helluva a lot of hyper defensive prickly women , l can say that much. l never touch personalities like that who could be bothered with them. Even though they were often just encounters , you can still pickem at a glance usually never bother with women like that. The friend, hmm, could say the same. Could be your area or city too , different places different mentalities and def' different women no matter what country.

l'm male btw so maybe women will drop in here and have ideas of what's happening , sounds like a vibe though , or maybe your too nice to these types that don't deserve it , they smell it, l dunno. Hard to say without more. You talk a lot about looks though , and most of the struggling guys do , and the same about their average friends that walk of with women . But they never get it, it's not all just about looks. ln your case you might actually be too much that so called package you talk about , another thing a lot if struggling guys don't get. Women are often just more comfortable around the average guy more so than mr perfect. Mind you, l've probably worded all that wrong but ahwell l don't have much time for replies.

I'll add, maybe I am not articulating it well but I think looks are a big thing when it comes to dating and initial reactions being welcoming or stand-offish. What I see with other guys that mention it too, is we are trying to point out that with some people, they way they look 100% will stack the odds against them right off the bat due to human nature. I am just trying to articulate that objectively I am not bad looking by giving examples. Like I never feel like I am the hottest guy in the room but in my own assessment, sometimes I might be above average for the room. On feedback over the years I am somewhat confident that the interactions aren't based on my overall appearance is all. I might be completely wrong in my assessment but I am just trying to give a little detail why I don't think the universal rejection is off looks.

[Yosemite]

21 hours ago, AlmostOverIt said:

Two women in the past years almost verbatim said, “I don’t understand it, you are the whole package”. They both actually said “whole package”, which seems like a good compliment to me.

Go date those women. Date the women that like you, makes sense right? If those women who say nice things about you are married, elderly, or your relatives, then there's a very high chance that they're being polite or trying to boost your self esteem to help you out. What else are they supposed to say? Do you really expect them to say that it makes perfect sense to them that you've been single most of your life?

It's quite strange that you to get the same negative, overreaction from woman after woman after woman. It seems likely that you're doing something to elicit the over-the-top reactions that you get. You could be standing too close, you could have a condescending or arrogant tone of voice, you could be going after women much younger or hotter than you. There's a long list of things it could be.

Get a dating coach and ask them to go out with you one night with your friends and just observe you. Then ask them to be brutally honest and tell you what their professional opinion is of you. Hopefully, you'll get some good insight on things you can work on and change. A friend won't want tell you the cold, hard truth or may not have a trained eye to see what is going on.

Are your friends that you're going out with about your same age? It makes sense for them to get the attention and for you to get the brush off if you're 10-20 years older than your guy friends.

You rate yourself as a 6, are you going for women who are in their 40's who are also 6's? Usually guys who date up are charismatic, charming, and fun...or multimillionaires. Sorry to be blunt, but based on the reactions that you're getting from a lot of women, it's hard to believe that you are any of those things. So maybe being  more realistic about who you try to date will improve your chances.
 

Quote

One thing I find kind of weird, is I get a lot of women ask me why I am not married and they have the same basic assumption, they think I just like to date several women at once and keep a woman in every port instead of committing. 

I guess you give off vibes that you want casual sex. Try to be more authentic and a genuine good guy with everyone you meet/interact with and maybe you'll shake the player persona you seem to have. And maybe get rid of the flashy car. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[chillii]

Back in single days , if l had parties and a crowd like that , l'd be in so much trouble. So it really surprises me not even parties work , l always found parties were fantastic , by far the best of all in meeting people.

But your pretty active and out and about to on top of all that , you surely must come across enough people all round that's for sure. What do you want , just casual stuff or to settle down marry whatever.lf the latter , maybe she just hasn't come along yet . Quality wins over quantity hands down by miles and focusing on that one special person , which may take a few yrs to come across. Although your among plenty of people which is one of the biggest things .

[glows]

2 hours ago, Yosemite said:

I guess you give off vibes that you want casual sex. Try to be more authentic and a genuine good guy with everyone you meet/interact with and maybe you'll shake the player persona you seem to have. 

That's the vibe I got as well from the write ups but it is not meant as a slight. You seem like you genuinely wish to connect with women. I'd worry less about what other men are doing. 

OP, $100 bill woman might have been having a bad day. No need to internalize. 

And you are probably not as extremely repulsive as you believe yourself to be. Are you usually this anxious around women or is it people in general? You may be building this up as an unattainable goal and having unrealistic expectations. Relax. 

[AlmostOverIt]

2 hours ago, glows said:

That's the vibe I got as well from the write ups but it is not meant as a slight. You seem like you genuinely wish to connect with women. I'd worry less about what other men are doing. 

OP, $100 bill woman might have been having a bad day. No need to internalize. 

And you are probably not as extremely repulsive as you believe yourself to be. Are you usually this anxious around women or is it people in general? You may be building this up as an unattainable goal and having unrealistic expectations. Relax. 

All good thoughts from every one. I am not anxious around women. Lately I have been fairly ambivalent I guess.

@Yosemite generally my friends are my age or most of them are 2-3 years older than me. Some guys I occasionally hang with but not as much is from one sport I play, a number of them are younger, they are generally Alpha, Alpha males. If we hang out I don't expect to get the same attention nor do I try to compete.

I sooo don't understand women getting the player vibe because I don't think I act that way but I recognize that's probably what they are picking up but I can guarantee they pick it up before they talk to me. My last ex was about as flawed as you could get so I factor that in but in her 20s she posed in a very popular men's magazine as a model and looked just as good in her late 30s and in my opinion better, than she did then and made the comment multiple times when we went out that I could get any woman there and she was serious. It was a bit of a point of contention between us because she thought any woman wanted me and I was like, I don't even understand why you are attracted to me. It blew my mind because she was adamant and I would ask her, who are you talking about because it's definitely not me. I will say her world was much, much different, like eye openingly different and I met and partied with a few celebrities and local sports stars, including a world series MVP that left a message to her about funeral directions on my voicemail when another local sports star had died, (honestly, it was very much like the one Seinfeld episode if you know the one, it was pretty spot on),  but she seemed to think I was part of that world and didn't believe I was universally panned by women.

Other than her, when someone suggested they thought maybe I was a player, I have challenged them before and asked what I said or did to make them think that? The general response I took from them was they couldn't figure out why I wasn't married and figured that must have been it. I think this is where the "warm up" comes in. I felt the ones that said that, said that once they knew me after hanging out 2-3 times vs their impression the first 1 or 2 times we met. The last casual relationship I had was agreed upon casual so there was pretty good openness. I had to convince her I wasn't married and hiding a wife because she said she doesn't understand why a "guy like" me wouldn't be locked up it and took a good deal of proving I wasn't secretly married before she believed me. She said, guys like you aren't single, I said guys like me are so single it's not even funny.

All this stuff gives me confidence and I try to draw on it but I know if I went up to the bar right now, the amount of interest I would get would be less than 0. 0 interest wouldn't be negative interest at least.

@glows To give an example of something I would say is more common for me than it should be- I was at the bar with two friends around a year ago. Sat down with my friends, waitress came over and took our drink order. Said, "Can I have XXX? Thank you", had never seen her before, never interacted with her, nothing out of the ordinary happened. I go there maybe once every other month over the past few years and I over tip because I do that at my 'regular' places, so It's not like I stiffed anyone or I am a shitty tipper before and they recognized me or pissed anyone off when I was there before. I have never hit on a waitress there, never had anyone mad at me there, etc. She came back to the table and took our order. My one friend kind of mumble grunts one or two word answers and won't look up at who he is talking to, if you didn't know him his inflection and tone will seem like he is completely pissed off at you even though he is not like that at all. This is almost verbatim, she says to him, "What can I get you honey?" He orders. She says, "do you want fries with that baby?" (absolutely true, she said honey and baby). He grunts, "ok". She turns to my friend, "What can I get you sugar?" He orders, asked a question, she said, "Sure I can do that babe". She looked at me and said loudly, "And what do YOUUU want?" seemed absolutely pissed off. I sat there for a second like wtf? I ordered and was about to ask if I could get another drink and before I said another word she immediately walked away. I just looked at my one friend and he immediately started laughing before I said a word and said, "I wouldn't eat your food, it's going to be full of spit". I looked at them and asked, "What did I do?" my one friend said, whatever it is, it must have been really bad. The other friend shook his head and laughed. I said did I do something weird or out of place that I didn't realize and he just said no, maybe she is having a bad day.

@Chilli I am looking for serious but I don't rule out casual. However, I don't know if I would want to be serious with someone until I talked to them so on initial meeting I am not going on looks like, she is hot, I would want something serious with her. I did that when I was young and stupid.

As far as opportunity, parties sports, etc., there will be women there but the single women are very few and far between. More often than not I'll get my friends saying, "You need to come to the party next wednesday, you need to meet Wendy". When I go either Wendy couldn't make it or Wendy is there with another guy. For me, bars are obviously not great for actually meeting someone. The other groups I am in are mostly married people, the single ones are typically too much younger. I would say maybe 2 times a year I meet someone at a party that is single and available and not just leaving as I arrive or just divorced or something.

I get, hey, I want to set you up with my friend, "XXX" probably 8-10 times a year and I'll follow up regularly and say, "Ok when do you want to set it up" and if anything gets set up, maybe once a year. A good example is I have an appointment once a week at this place. The owner has been waiting to set me up with someone that's not quite available yet and has talked about it for months. I saw the person the owner wants to set me up with in the office as I was walking in and she was leaving and she is very attractive. I can all but guarantee when she becomes available, the next week it will be, "Oh shoot! I found out she just became available last week but apparently went on a cruise and met a guy and they are serious".

Oddly, I get a ton of 'set up' offers that fall through and never materialize. The reasons I see have been legit, like she moved, got a new job, met a guy in the two weeks from when it was offered and the planned meet up was, etc.. The last one was for sure true because I met her for 15 seconds while I was picking someone up and her friend I barely know told me when we got back and she was already gone, that she was the one they were setting me up with. I met the guy she was with 2 weeks after that at another party. I guess that's a long winded way of saying, the only "opportunity" of any substance is if I go out to the bar and that's not great.

Sorry, I probably sound like a dick with my 'sources of confidence' and the book I typed here that put people to sleep if they made it this far, but just kind out putting it out there I guess and definitely appreciate everyone's responses, there's a few things I'll have to try to look out for based on things said and maybe some good direction to identifying something.   

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by AlmostOverIt

[lonelyplanetmoon]

20 hours ago, chillii said:

Sounds like you come across a helluva a lot of hyper defensive prickly women , l can say that much. l never touch personalities like that who could be bothered with them. Even though they were often just encounters , you can still pickem at a glance usually never bother with women like that.

I am with chilli on this.  Your picker is off.  You are choosing to “notice” the wrong kind of woman.  If you had a real sense of worth you would not even give women like that a moments thought.

‘My thoughts on your situation is that you are stuck in self fulfilling prophecy mode.  You think a certain way and feel a certain way about yourself.  And so you choose to only see things that affirm your viewpoint.  Have you done any therapy or counseling? Wow  you really need it!  Not because you are crazy or anything like that but because you are stuck by your own chains.  The only way to freedom is if you free yourself.  Personal growth is the key.  Therapy is the tool.

 

 

[AlmostOverIt]

21 hours ago, lonelyplanetmoon said:

I am with chilli on this.  Your picker is off.  You are choosing to “notice” the wrong kind of woman.  If you had a real sense of worth you would not even give women like that a moments thought.

‘My thoughts on your situation is that you are stuck in self fulfilling prophecy mode.  You think a certain way and feel a certain way about yourself.  And so you choose to only see things that affirm your viewpoint.  Have you done any therapy or counseling? Wow  you really need it!  Not because you are crazy or anything like that but because you are stuck by your own chains.  The only way to freedom is if you free yourself.  Personal growth is the key.  Therapy is the tool.

 

 

Valid take. The stuck by my own chains rings a bit true I think.

No on the therapy, don't know I would ever do it, thought about it. A dating coach, I doubt I would do it. I am generally pretty happy in life and fine with it, just kind of bummed about the accumulation at this point. I am fine alone but frustrated at the moment I guess. I am not disagreeing with the picker being off, I think that seems very valid and possible. I just don't know as far as the "wrong kind of woman", I don't necessarily know enough if anything, about them that I could know if they were wrong vs perfectly amazing. So on one hand I would say it seems likely, on the other hand sometimes friends or acquaintances end up dating the same women we meet later and they seem like ok people and I become close friends down the road with them. So that one would be hard to confirm for me I think.

 That is one thing I have kind of leaned to is a self fulfilling prophecy. I *try* to not be like that, at least at times as in basically I go somewhere social and just don't think about it and focus on not going in negative. It seems like it finds me though. Like minding my own business sitting with my friends and someone comes over talks to the group and I am in the conversation. They'll ask what's my favorite movie and I'll say 'Happy Gilmore' and her reaction would be, "Oh, I would never date you. That movie is awful and if you like that you are definitely not my type, we could NEVER date", in a condescending, definitely not flirty, way. That's a gut punch, I didn't ask for it, I didn't flirt, I didn't indicate I wanted to date her, I didn't approach her, I didn't ask the question, I didn't ask her to come over, in short I didn't ask for any of it and she had no earthly reason to reject me, let alone so loudly and publicly. Then I sit there after being told that in front of friends and obviously everyone laughs and, "Oh damn! " and jokes about it. I can laugh too and I do let it roll off but those things can cut deep sometimes. If it happened once, she was rude, twice, two people in a bad mood, 55 times over the years, leave me alone already! Some of the times like this, some of the girl's other friends would feel bad and kind of scold her so it would confirm they felt what I picked up, like that was harsh for no reason. I just don't see other guys like, ever, getting that. Like two seconds ago that other guy over there said you had small boobs and you just laughed it off, why didn't you say that to him? This has happened to me more than my share IMO.

So I am not sure if I am hypersensitive to it, I imagine so, getting back what I am projecting which is very likely, or another thought I have is I might be one of those people that others feel at ease insulting or attacking. Maybe non-threatening.

Like, randomly if I was at a store buying a red bull and put it on the counter and went to take out my wallet to pay and the cashier started absolutely screaming at me for putting a can that had condensation on it on the counter and getting the counter a little bit wet, and I looked at the people behind me in line with huge eyes and their mouth open and a "wtf just happened, we don't understand either" look, it honestly wouldn't make my list top 100 crazy reactions. One thing I can say is I have a lot of stories like this. I just tell close friends a lot of times because they have witnessed things and know I don't over state things. I don't tell them at parties unless I have someone that was there with me because without a witness people think I am crazy exaggerating to the point I have won actual bets with people that didn't believe me until I say, "Hey, Bill! Tell him about yesterday at the gas station".

I am being mostly serious here too, I would wager the cost of a dating coach against $1000 that I could have a dating coach after a month, write a letter of confirmation that I am cursed, there is no other explanation. A guy that's done it 20 years with 900 success stories would refer to me as the one he threw his hands up and made him question his entire career and would guarantee I didn't sabotage it on purpose.

Chris Chelios from the Red Wings once said his dad told he him he had a punchable face. I have felt I might have a rejectable or a take-out-your-frustrations-on-me face. I have asked some women I know if that was the case and they said it was not something they see, but to me that almost seems to be the most plausible explanation for a lot of the things. 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[Yosemite]

4 hours ago, AlmostOverIt said:

I am looking for serious but I don't rule out casual. However, I don't know if I would want to be serious with someone until I talked to them so on initial meeting I am not going on looks like, she is hot, I would want something serious with her. I did that when I was young and stupid.

So you do want casual...and women are picking up on that. You can blur the lines if you want and say, "I want serious, but until then I'll take casual," but that's the outlook of  a 20 or 22 yr old. You're almost 50 and still not bored with casual; women are accurately recognizing your desire for casual and responding to you accordingly.

Either each and every woman you come across has an irrational anger and hate towards you or you are doing and saying things that give the impression that you're inauthentic or a user or not a stand-up guy. You're either 1,000% self-aware and borderline perfect or you have some blind spots about yourself (like we all do) and should utilize a dating coach to learn where you need to improve.

You're almost 50, never married, no kids, financially succesful, driving a flashy car, and probably wanting a woman 15 -20 years younger than you. That gives the impression that you just want to go through woman after woman or that you have impossible standards that a woman needs to meet in order for you to consider her for a long term relationship.

It's a tough pill to swallow, but the issue lies with you. Your challenge is to figure out what your issues/faults are and change them. Most everybody is pretty bad with changing themselves and middle-aged men are especially known for not being great with personal development/change, so that's why professional help would benefit you.

[chillii]

Jezuz, you are cursed you need something, see someone, your putting out something that is for sure. What struck me first up and still is now with new comments and posts, is successful , flash car, tall sound like your fit , do you dress well too, expensive, or over dress for your crowd ?

Women wise , you might be too much for average women and it'd probably scare them off, and you'd be a different person to most of them too. Do you ever mix and hang out in more well to do circles and career women ? You wouldn't scare them off. l also agree about the car but again that wouldn't scare them off either but you'd stick out like a sore thumb among other scenes . Just thoughts.

Edited February 9, 2022 by chillii

[bene]

First of all, maybe your friend who gets invited to a woman’s house to eat casserole after a random conversation in the supermarket is an extremely talented people’s person because this doesn’t usually happen to most people  This sounds like something from a romcom. 

Your experiences seem really odd to me. It’s hard to say without seeing you but could it be that you somehow cone across intimidating? There are people who have a natural facial expression as if they’re smirking or sulking, you get the idea. There’s even an expression for resting b**** face. 

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, AlmostOverIt said:

 

@YosemiteMy last ex  posed in a very popular men's magazine 

Men's magazines don't have playboy models anymore. Haven't for years.  

Make sure your inventory of your experiences and yourself is as accurate and objective as possible.

The use of alpha male and so forth indicates that you may be getting your information from the wrong sources.

[AlmostOverIt]

9 hours ago, Yosemite said:

So you do want casual...and women are picking up on that. You can blur the lines if you want and say, "I want serious, but until then I'll take casual," but that's the outlook of  a 20 or 22 yr old. You're almost 50 and still not bored with casual; women are accurately recognizing your desire for casual and responding to you accordingly.
 

I can understand that and may agree, I just don't know how they pick up I "want casual" before one word. Like If I sit down next to them, what suggested casual before I opened my mouth? There may be something that does that, I just can't figure it out. And I don't necessarily want a casual relationship I am just not opposed.

[AlmostOverIt]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Men's magazines don't have playboy models anymore. Haven't for years.  

Make sure your inventory of your experiences and yourself is as accurate and objective as possible.

The use of alpha male and so forth indicates that you may be getting your information from the wrong sources.

She posed in her 20's or late teens, I think she said she was 21 or 22 so it was a while ago but she still held sway and knew many people in high places and looked like she was 25 at the time, I have a copy of the layout in my basement storage. It was just odd someone in that world thought I was in that world.

For the alpha, I was just saying when I go out with the guys in my sports league, they are all highly alpha so it is not a good time to try to meet anyone. I could be talking to someone for 45 minutes and they will slide in between us and dominate the girl the rest of the night aggressively, so I was just making the observation social activities from that are pretty much no gos for meeting someone from the start.

[AlmostOverIt]

8 hours ago, chillii said:

Jezuz, you are cursed you need something, see someone, your putting out something that is for sure. What struck me first up and still is now with new comments and posts, is successful , flash car, tall sound like your fit , do you dress well too, expensive, or over dress for your crowd ?

Women wise , you might be too much for average women and it'd probably scare them off, and you'd be a different person to most of them too. Do you ever mix and hang out in more well to do circles and career women ? You wouldn't scare them off. l also agree about the car but again that wouldn't scare them off either but you'd stick out like a sore thumb among other scenes . Just thoughts.

I would say I probably dress down, never sloppy or sweats or anything but not expensive clothes at all. I do worse in well to do circles. My best friend hangs in well to do circles and people at his parties are all in that class. I get along great with them but I don't broadcast those material things really so I get the feeling the women in that circle don't see me as doing fairly well.

One comment comes to mind from setup requests in the past is my friends have said, "She's high maintenance" or she likes rich guys. I feel they say it because I am more earthy and not fine wine and fancy things, which may be a legit thing on their end. I can tux it up if I have to, but I am a rented tux kind of guy really, I am sure that is apparent.

I really appreciate the thoughts from everyone. It has me looking at different angles.

I am not crazy and would say I don't believe in curses and stuff like that really, but with the examples I gave here, i can't even articulate how monumentally cursed I feel at times. I may be repeating but one girl I was very interested in and was getting excited when I met her and we talked all night and it was one of those things when you know you say things that just land perfectly and you can see it in her eyes she feels it too. The girl was asking me what type of girl I like and she regurgitated what I said and said she was exactly like that. She basically said she was desperate for a date and go out with anyone. She asked what I like to do and everything I said she said she loved doing it. I mentioned something coming up I wanted to do and she said she would love to go to that. I asked if she wanted to get together the next week for a drink or dinner and she said she was busy for the next 4 weeks because she was going on vacation for two weeks and had to prepare, maybe after and told me to get her number from our mutual friend. That was pretty much a fart in the room at that point and when she left, my friend and his wife said how could I not ask her out, she was totally into me, I told them I did ask her out and what she said and they were perplexed. They said she was asking them things about me all night. Another friend there said he heard her asking about me and thought it was a done deal. I asked her out nicely and it fit our conversation. It wasn't like a terrible line or overtly sexual or anything.

Another woman I met in a group with a friend of a friend that was setting me up. We hit it off, stayed at the bar until closing. I got home around 2:30-3:00 am, got her number and everything. Our mutual friend texted at 11:00am the next morning that the girl was asking her if I was going to call her, about 8 hours after I saw her with only about 2 waking hours between. I called her later that day, said I really enjoyed talking to her and asked if she was free the next week. I got absolute disinterest from her. She scheduled a Monday date with the disclaimer she couldn't stay out late, obviously a dud at that point before the date happened and it was.

My favorite recently was a close friend set me up and didn't tell me. He has a small office and told me to come up and office drink with just him and his wife after work to celebrate a holiday. I texted him when I was 10 minutes out and he texted back, by the way my friend Amy is here for you to meet. She's really awesome and you two will hit it off. I s*** you not, when I got there another guy he knows in the office complex had stopped by and started drinking with them. It was a small room with a small table and he was practically in her lap and hard hit on her for about an hour and a half and obnoxiously dominated her time. It was awkward. She looked like she felt awkward. I think I got maybe 10 words in with her, he peppered her with questions until she said she had to leave. He said he would walk her out and she said ok and left. My friend looked at me and said, "I'm sorry. He just walked in and stayed, right before you got here". He was genuinely sorry. I didn't care too much I just went to hang out with him and his wife, but seriously? Who does that happen to?

I can give probably 8-10 other examples like this where the universe came in and did something so crazy it doesn't seem possible. I don't believe in it but if I found out past lives and karma from past lives exist, it would make more sense than anything I come up with.

All that leads me to believe what everyone here is picking up on looking at it from the outside. Intangibles like vibe, innate incompatibility from the women I am looking at, or I am creating a perception. I am confident most women's initial impression of me is different than what they think when they get to know me. In my opinion which obviously is flawed or off, is that the initial impression is just, he's some guy, not good or bad. The eventual impression is he seems like a decent catch, but he hasn't been caught so there must be something wrong with him. 

[Wiseman2]

45 minutes ago, AlmostOverIt said:

She posed in her 20's or late teens. I have a copy of the layout in my basement storage.

So when you were young you dated supermodels, but now you can't get a date? There's something odd about that, no?.

Have you ever been married/in a long term relationship? Because you are quite heavily focused an your looks, purported desirability and many assets that you claim women should be clamoring over. However all you do is site examples about how the jerks are getting all the women.

[AlmostOverIt]

46 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

So when you were young you dated supermodels, but now you can't get a date? There's something odd about that, no?.

Have you ever been married/in a long term relationship? Because you are quite heavily focused an your looks, purported desirability and many assets that you claim women should be clamoring over. However all you do is site examples about how the jerks are getting all the women.

So I don't think I claimed jerks get the women, just that I am not getting opportunities others guys are. A lot of them are friends or acquaintances in my examples and I don't think I called them jerks because they aren't. Yeah, the one guy was over the top obnoxious in the one example but that was an example of an open opportunity initially on a silver platter that died before I even walked in the door, not an example that he was a jerk that got the woman.

I don't feel I said jerks get all the women and nice guys finish last etc, because I certainly don't think that is true, all guys are jerks at times and nice at others so you can't even quantify something like that. Other guys get women and consistent attention and opportunity and I don't, that is true. I am just saying I am not getting the same reactions as other guys from similar actions from what I see, I am not saying they don't deserve them or I am better than those guys. I thought I had been consistent saying I feel I am at least on the same level as many of those guys, not better. A lot of my references are friends that are not jerks and I could be wrong but I think I have sited mostly interactions I have had and reactions I have gotten that were not involving other guys or on account of other guys.

I don't feel I am focused on my looks other than to say I don't find myself ugly based on certain experiences and I don't get the impression women find me ugly. I think confidence in feeling you are moderately attractive is not a bad thing. I have had enough experience in responses to feel I am not initially off putting is all I am trying to relay. I think it is important to give context here otherwise the answer would women find you ugly. I understand this is my opinion and maybe I am focused on looks but don't think I am.

Never said I dated supermodels but I tried to be clear I have had success with women every 3-5 years or so that were not just easy targets and I guess they were let's just say, in high demand, which is just true. I mean if it's true it is just true, not sure how else to say it, I am just stating a fact for context I think tells more of the story. I am anonymous here so it's not like I am trying to impress anyone I will never meet. I expected if I posted that I have dated fairly attractive women responses will be like, "you dated women that attractive but can't get a date, that doesn't make sense". and that is the crux of my initial post, I am not completely devoid of interest or completely rejected all the time. I tried to be clear this happens but is few and far between which I am trying to understand why every 3-5 years or so it happens or opportunity falls in my lap, but in between pfffft. So if it happens and seems normal and easy last January, why is it radio silence for the next 2 years? What I am doing that is so polar opposite in between, how do I explain that or rationalize that?

"So when you were young you dated supermodels, but now you can't get a date? There's something odd about that, no?."

The one I mentioned that posed in the magazine, lived with me from 38-41. She pursued me.

Around 45 had a fairly regular casual relationship that seemed headed somewhere. We both discussed we were open to seeing where things go. We had a lot of fun, no real commitment, eventually she did a slow ghost but it was the nature of the beast, nothing really bad there, I wasn't terribly broken up but I was starting to see an actual relationship might happen. 

I was engaged around 31. I pursued her.

At 28 was with my perfect match for about 4 months, she pursued me aggressively but it was a mutual immediate thing for sure. Bad event ended it but nothing bad ever between us.

Early 20s I was not looking for serious relationships, I thought I was but I look back and I wasn't. I'd say from 21-28 I had maybe 4 shorter term relationships, maybe a few months, outside of hookups (not many hookups for sure). It was a long time ago but I mostly slow faded them because I wasn't ready for commitment.

So no, it's not that I dated supermodels when I was younger and nothing now. I think it is consistent with the original post when I say it happens every few years but is a brick wall in between. Your question , "There's something odd about that , no?" is exactly, exactly, exactly, what I am trying to figure out.

I'll say I am fairly truthful to a fault and I sell myself pretty poorly in general in other situations, as in I hate saying I am something I am not. It's one integrity thing I have. I have never liked bragging or overestimating myself because it embarrasses the hell out of me. Let's just say there is an event I go to where some women think I may have been an ex-pro, other guys say, "Yup" to impress them because it plays and I cringe at my core. I say, "Nope. Not even close". I only point this out to get across that I have no reason to lie or embellish on here with what I am saying, that is my honest assessment. I know if I am embellishing here it is an absolute waste of time and I get 0 street cred for it, I am just looking for different takes and I have gotten a few different perspectives I have to internalize and maybe view from outside my own head.

If you think I am embellishing or being dishonest, I get it. I can't do much about that but it took a long, long time for me to get motivated to put this down on paper so I can say I am definitely not trying to waste my own time. One false representation makes any answer I get meaningless and I know that.

 

[JRabbit]

On 2/8/2022 at 9:02 AM, AlmostOverIt said:

"That guy over there is cute, what's his deal?",

That's when you say, "who cares about that guy, what do you think of me?"

OP, I wonder if how you see yourself isn't how other see you.  If how you see yourself is accurate. Not that you are purposefully lying or being deceitful but more that you might be a tad...un self aware?

I can tell you one thing that might help, name dropping and experience dropping is a TURN OFF. In this thread alone you have mentioned famous people, expensive items, multiple times. People connected to famous people, things you know people have done etc etc.  No one cares, especially women from men who are interested in them.

Edited February 9, 2022 by JRabbit

[glows]

What else are you doing besides meeting women at bars? Try and diversify your interests a bit more. Do you have social circles that do not hang out at bars? 

I think you already know that if you're dating closer to your age (mid-40s), the women you're meeting have also met a lot of mis-matches and odd ducks, the same like you. They know how to tell a man who's relationship material versus someone who is too caught up with his own failures. I say this kindly, not to bring you down. You've written very well and candidly about your experiences. Your ex was in her 20s, suggesting a 20 year age gap or that you prefer younger women and your choice of hang out seems to be the bar. Is this accurate? 

 

[AlmostOverIt]

15 minutes ago, JRabbit said:

That's when you say, "who cares about that guy, what do you think of me?"

OP, I wonder if how you see yourself isn't how other see you.  If how you see yourself is accurate. Not that you are purposefully lying or being deceitful but more that you might be a tad...un self aware?

I can tell you one thing that might help, name dropping and experience dropping is a TURN OFF. In this thread alone you have mentioned famous people, expensive items, multiple times. People connected to famous people, things you know people have done etc etc.  No one cares, especially women from men who are interested in them.

That's when you say, "who cares about that guy, what do you think of me?"

so I'd say about 1 out of 5 times I respond something like that. I would say today, I would think I already know what she thinks of me so maybe 1 out of 10 I would ask because I don't want to really know the answer. I find as those responses build up it's a heavier gut punch now if I say that playfully and the response is, "Well, I don't think about you". That is something i am trying to get across maybe. In a casual, fun conversation, if I try to escalate that I am interested I get shot down in spectacular fashion. I don't get let down easily, I get a, "What do I think about you? I think YOU should find out if that guy is single, for me". 

Next part valid thought. That's the frustrating part. Women I have had relationships see me how I think I see myself. The ones that I have had relationships with have validated how I feel about myself and the faults I know I have I feel they have validate those as well. I tend to be a bit of a deep thinker and analyze a lot, I am fairly critical of myself. I may not be self-aware but nobody has ever really said anything critical that I didn't agree with that I recall or harped on personality flaws. Like I have never been put in my place where I felt I didn't deserve it. I can say my close friends will call me out if they need to call me out, if you don't have thick skin with them, you won't last long. So it's hard to tell if my assessment is way off or not but I can say I am not someone that has no self awareness, I am fairly considerate of people and fairly reserved in person with people I don't know. I do fight shyness in some social situations but I hide it fairly well. I talk, I engage, I smile, I ask about other people. I just don't carry a room until I know everyone in it and I am comfortable.

One of my previous posts I think I addressed this. I never name drop or sell myself like that, I am anti-that to probably a fault. The famous people I have met, I don't recall ever telling anyone else, definitely not any woman I didn't know I don't have names to drop either other than a couple of local celebrities and I don't have stories of them other than I met them and had lunch with them or whatever. Until I wrote that, I forgot about since my last ex so I am not bringing up those names.  It was just added color here I guess to show the women I have had relationships with are desirable to the dating world. I really am not a huge fan of talking about myself or over selling myself. I have been told I am hard at times to read and I think because I am reserved a bit I know but if I am engaged with someone I open up. Part of the issue is I don't get anywhere near a point where I would even have a chance to mention it so I am not doing that. If they don't engage to begin with, I'm not yelling it across the room. If I haven't said a word, I am not sure how I am hard to read. Maybe my look is hard to read? I don't know.

Expensive items- I was asked if I have a nice house, a good car, and good job. I was directly answering a question. I think in that post I mentioned I never mention my car unless they see it and ask if it's mine, I don't say how much I make or what my house is worth. I don't find if I do engage, that anyone asks about those things and I don't offer up anything about my house or car or salary to any extent I recall ever doing that outside of I own my own home and tell them what my job is. My job is technical so it's not going to wow anyone.

 

[JRabbit]

8 minutes ago, AlmostOverIt said:

One of my previous posts I think I addressed this. I never name drop or sell myself like that, I am anti-that to probably a fault. The famous people I have met, I don't recall ever telling anyone else,

alright well I think you answered my question. I can not imagine how you talk throughout your posts here is not how you are in real life. Be honest with yourself. You have done exactly that throughout the thread....you have an ex model gf who modeled, you hang out with "ex pros".  There are lots of us on the forum who have all done the same but we don't include it in almost every story. Look, I'm not trying to beat you down but clearly there is some issue here you are not aware of.

You have said the women you have dated see you how you see yourself, then why are you here?  More of them must be out there? Do they really, or are they just being nice? Are just trying to not hurt your feelings or get involved?

None of this makes sense. This isn't some paranormal effect you are having. Either you aren't aware of how you really are to others or you are blowing your dating failures over proportion.

JMO