Loneliness

[mortensorchid]

I was thinking about this recently, my shrink told me this at our last session - loneliness is at an all time high in our world.  Of this I agree, but I also wonder why this is the case.

Why are we so lonely?  People are more disconnected from one another than they ever were in history.  Humans are social creatures, we desire to be around others and need to live / work with others in some capacity.  We just got through the holiday season which is a rough time for us all (the holiday blues kick in, there is so much craziness happening, etc.), but this is not the only time that people feel lonely.  People in general are craving more meaningful social interaction with one another beyond the online world.  

True?  I think so, absolutely.  However, people don't even seem to make efforts anymore.  Now, firstly, I understand completely that people can and do outgrow one another.  For example, you probably no longer talk to others you went to high school with because that period in life is over with, you go your separate ways, and that's that.  It's like if you ran into someone you went to kindergarten with - you may remember each other but you were five years old and you've both changed, so you have nothing in common anymore.  Solutions?  In the old days it was getting involved with your community in some way.  I believe that to be the case, but people don't do it anymore.  I joined a women's committee at a local theater company last year, I am the youngest one by at least 30 years.  I don't mind being the youngest one, it makes me happy to be part of it.  OLDing?  How many times has it happened that people go out on an internet date, meet someone, then you never hear a word from them ever again.  

Maybe others have insights into this that I don't see? 

[Els]

Short answer: Covid.

I don't think any event in human history other than the world wars have torn so many families and couples apart.

[Weezy1973]

The primary social unit has shrunk from tribe, to community, to family and is now firmly the individual. People are less connected than ever. Family formation has been steadily happening later and later in life. And more people than ever are choosing not to have a family at all. The downside to these choices is a lack of connection which leads directly to loneliness. 
 

People that prioritize family and community and are willing to make the sacrifices that come with that are happier. But so many people think the opposite is true. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Weezy1973

[Foxhall]

4 hours ago, mortensorchid said:

People are more disconnected from one another than they ever were in history

I do find your threads interesting actually,

on the one hand what you say there is correct, but then again I could skype someone the other side of the world now this minute, so in that sense we are more connected than ever before really, 

I probably would not have had that option if I was living in a previous generation,

perhaps people are finding it harder to satisfy their souls or obtain contentment in the present world.

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Foxhall

[Alpacalia]

I think it's a Covid thing.

 

[Els]

36 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

The primary social unit has shrunk from tribe, to community, to family and is now firmly the individual. People are less connected than ever. Family formation has been steadily happening later and later in life. And more people than ever are choosing not to have a family at all. The downside to these choices is a lack of connection which leads directly to loneliness. 
 

People that prioritize family and community and are willing to make the sacrifices that come with that are happier. But so many people think the opposite is true. 

Some of the loneliest people I know are women with young children who married a person they weren't really in love with because "it was time". Children are not a substitute for adult connection, and marriage does not guarantee a connection either. SAHMs especially tend to struggle with maintaining or forming adult friendships due to being at home and occupied all the time.

IMO, aside from the Covid years, people aren't "lonelier" now than they were before. You just didn't know when someone was lonely previously, because they weren't able to tell you through the internet. 

[Els]

To add, the one thing that I do think has changed in the recent decades is expectations. Because of the internet and social media, I think some people have the expectation of being connected all the time, especially since their friend Linda seems to be having the "perfect life" that they crave (or at least that's their interpretation of the photos that she posts on social media). When in reality, it's normal for humans to feel lonely sometimes, and it's unrealistic to expect that you will feel connected all the time.

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

 School, extracurricular activities, etc. and when people lay down roots they get more involved than when they don’t.

In general terms, I've seen this so much.  When I read the topic, I thought of all the different groups of women I know who have formed tight groups and friendships.  All of them met through school

[mark clemson]

While this might be true, I suspect there have always been plenty of folks who were quite lonely, throughout history.

It's likely (IMO) that loneliness is an emotion we feel when a) we're cut off from other people in some manner and b) we have other more pressing needs (such as finding food and not freezing to death) taken care of. Those are not givens but "modern" society DOES have a way of "solving our problems" but then we are presented with being in our living space and there is not a real reason to have to go interact with others.

There are solo entertainments such as reading, TV, and (heh) posting on the internet that did not exist (or weren't as widespread/common as they are today). So people found things to do with other people (e.g. playing billiards, gambling socially, hitting the local pub, parlor games, etc) which still exist today but simply aren't as commonly practiced, esp. past 30 or so. People who we might go socialize with are often busy with their solo entertainments at times we'd be ready to socialize (and the converse, where we are e.g. watching TV at times we could be going out and meeting potential new friends is true as well). Work too was different in the past.

There are folks who are happy or reasonably happy alone. I think as a "modern" adult one key is to develop an interest and then go find others who share it and socialize with them. So an interest group, book club, volunteering for a charity, meetups, etc is a reasonable way to go.

Edited January 9, 2022 by mark clemson

[poppyfields]

I think the internet has negatively impacted the development of intimate/emotional connections more than covid.

Covid is relatively new, a couple of years.. The breakdown of relationships and people feeling mentally and emotionally isolated (lonely) has been happening for years, albeit gradually due to folks relying on their computers to connect with others and becoming lazy. 

As such, they have developed an abundance mindset (quantity versus quality) and learned that people are easily replaceable.  Multidating on and off the internet has become the "norm."

It's difficult and challenging developing close emotionally intimate connections with others this way; giving bits and pieces of yourself to many versus all of yourself to that one special person assuming you're motivated enough to get off your arse and meet people in the real world. 

I am part of a social group and some of the men admit that while they are chatting with 5 or even 10 different women, sometimes meeting for casual sex, they have never felt so lonely in their entire lives. 

Even the sex is unsatisfying; they seek it for validation, but it's perfunctory and leaves them feeling lonely and depressed. 

They have felt this way for YEARS, way before covid came along. 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by poppyfields

[Els]

6 hours ago, mark clemson said:

There are folks who are happy or reasonably happy alone. I think as a "modern" adult one key is to develop an interest and then go find others who share it and socialize with them. So an interest group, book club, volunteering for a charity, meetups, etc is a reasonable way to go.

This.

Honestly, it's difficult for me to relate to the OP's perception. It's easier than ever to make friends in a modern developed society IMO - because of the work-life balance that we enjoy, and the technological advances that save us from spending time doing banal stuff (like emptying the chamber pots), we have more spare time for hobbies. Hobbies are how I've met most of my adult friends (and also my husband...).

It would have been unthinkable a century ago for a group of 30-something year old people of mixed genders to be spending 3 hours together twice a week moving painted figures over a board, lol.

[FMW]

In my experience, simply being married doesn't stop you from feeling lonely.  It can actually make the loneliness more pronounced, because what society tells us "should" be, is not.  If it's true that half of all marriages fail, I certainly don't see marriage in and of itself resulting in less loneliness.  Nor is dating or cohabitating, for the same reason.  

For me, truly connecting is what makes the difference.  We don't connect with just anyone, and for people who have more problems than most in making those connections (because of fear or distrust), loneliness can be more likely.  That's where being more involved and active with groups and organizations increase the odds of finding people with whom you really click, whether as friends or romantic partners.  COVID has almost certainly had a detrimental affect in that way.  

Maybe more people aren't necessarily feeling lonely now then ever before, maybe it's just with the internet people are able to express their emotions, good or bad, to a huge audience now and so it's an issue of which we're all more aware.  I've only been on Facebook since last summer and I'm constantly amazed at the emotional posts by some posters.  Add that to the sometimes false or exaggerated representations of how blissfully happy others are (Facebook photos and stories, for example),  it increases the feelings of some of being left out.  Even just ten years ago, fewer people were able (or willing) to express their feelings so openly.  All that openness has probably also increased the number of people feeling comfortable seeking counseling and therapy, thereby identifying more "lonely" people in official surveys and reports.  

[mario_C]

One thing I've learned from the pandemic is, apparently, most people have no social life outside of work and/or the bar. I mean none.

That's pretty bad. The internet today is a terrible place to make friends (I like LS because it's sorta anonymous.) and avenues to use it to meet people in RL seem to have dried up.

This is a problem, and I hope we can come up with solutions.

[glows]

OP, I can’t really relate but understand what you’re saying.

The problem I feel is lack of community and too much every person for him/herself. You won’t feel lonely if you’re part of several communities or live in a community where you care for or are connected to one another. 

[czanclus]

I completely agree with you/your shrink that the loneliness in today's (let's say American) society is way too prevalent. I have not much insight, but the first question I asked myself when at the threshold of middle age this started to particularly bother me was in what way was I in my own behavior a part of the problem, and after that, what can I do to fix the problem. I've never been diagnosed, but I suspect I would be somewhere (probably closer to the boundary of neurotypical than otherwise) on the Asperger's spectrum of high functioning autism, so on my end that could have contributed to people just 'not getting me'. Add to that the fact that money was always an issue, and I had to work a lot in order to maintain solvency and make sure my kid doesn't suffer. Further, on the outside I am significantly more attractive than the average American woman in every aspect, and I've gotten far enough in school to indicate that I have respectable intelligence. My close friends don't think of me as sweet, soft-spoken or nice, but know they can count on me to be there for them. I am also capable of empathy on a deeper level, and deem myself a respectable, attentive, genuinely caring conversationalist. But when it comes to wider social interactions, even controlling for my slight accent and an occasional (but rare) awkward usage of English, even when I try extra hard to maintain eye contact and put on the American-staple smile, things just don't always run smoothly.

As an example, now that I am finally middle class (hoping to stay there for good), with a decent size condo, and a luxury to not work through my lunch hour, I adopted a dog. I've been much happier and content since he came into my life. One day, I took him to a dog park to socialize. As I was walking us to the dog park, I was mentally preparing myself to remove my headphones, to look at the people there but not stare, to muster some semblance of a smile, and to try to come up with some typical in my view utterly vacuous pleasantries that neurotypicals seem to crave in these encounters. Came to the park, there were three women there, each with her own dog, appearing to know each other and each other's dogs superficially, likely by way of having seen each other in the park before. Basic conversation of the type: 'no, Molly, wait until the doggy comes in.' 'Aw, cute dog, how old is she?' ... My dog is a fetch fiend (someone else must have trained him), and so part of his playtime in the park was a few gentle throws of the ball to get him comfortable, and the other part was supposedly to sniff other doggies. I walked in, ready to smilingly chit-chat, hoping to maybe even exchange some tips on newly adopted dog care (but low expectations on practical discussion)... Tried to make eye contact with each woman - none even looked at me. Threw the ball at my dog very gently, it fell in the very general vicinity of a woman and her dog, my dog articulately caught it, I approached a little closer, the woman essentially tugged her dog to move away rambling some courteous sounding stuff about 'we don't take other dog's toys'. This wasn't even my dog's toy, it was a communal tennis ball in the fenced yard. Meanwhile, they kept interacting with each other on this superficial stream of pleasantries, and every attempt of mine to speak with a smile how my dog is friendly (more than literally any dog I've seen while on walks), they kept shunning me. Having never seen me or my dog before in their life, I was stumped as to their demeanor. The only thing I could think of was that they found themselves uncomfortably lacking in my pulled together without effort casual look, while they all looked like they live in their pajamas, stuff themselves with junk food, and haven't seen a mirror in weeks. 

But then again... maybe it was something on my forehead screaming: 'i eat puppies for breakfast and am here for yours.'

To note, when the park had three men (and no women), all younger than me by at least 5 years and up to 15, they were all perfectly courteous, I even chatted with one of them about a recent home appraisal in the neighborhood, talked about schools that my kid went to when she was younger, etc. The other guy had a great time throwing a fetch ball to his dog and mine, and of course, my dog caught all the balls. 😛

Other dog park visitors on other occasions seemed more friendly and open, so not all hope is lost.

Anecdote to add to the penny jar, but overall, I think the main reason people in this country have become so alienated from each other is the culture of shame that Barbara Ehrenreich described in her book "Brightsided", and that now more than in times before, people only opt to open up to each other when they feel their lives fit the standards of the perfect 20%er and wealthier class, and otherwise secretly suffer and toil in shame ceaselessly chasing that forgone American Dream. Even the women I consider my best friends who come from the same background as I and as "two-suitcase" immigrants to the country are at this time of their lives so entrenched in the cult of money and 'correct' lifestyle that they'll avoid calling me just to "shoot the ....." lest it reveals that they are too stressed out about their job, worried about paying for their kids' college (who isn't?), have relationship drama... All the while, I'm 'trying to keep it real', openly speaking about my problems/stresses/worries because what is the point of faking it, but that in eyes of many is unsightly and vulgar. 

tl;dr - people fail to reach out as they've been shamed into believing they are not good enough; alternatively, they see you as an enemy who is flaunting their appearance/intellect to make them feel (even more) inadequate

Edited January 9, 2022 by czanclus

[Pumpernickel]

26 minutes ago, czanclus said:

people fail to reach out as they've been shamed into believing they are not good enough; alternatively, they see you as an enemy who is flaunting their appearance/intellect to make them feel (even more) inadequate

You think that’s the reason? That’s interesting, because I, too, have a lot of friends who I’ve known since school/uni - and they appreciate my candor & helpfulness, and overall my friendship. Good times! But getting to know new ppl, esp women? It’s tough. I’m having a very hard time making new friends. And I don’t know why?!? But it makes me appreciate the ones I have even more. And oddly enough I have similar experiences with dog parks. Ha!

[poppyfields]

6 hours ago, FMW said:

In my experience, simply being married doesn't stop you from feeling lonely... 

My dad said same thing to me.  He said being married to the 'wrong' person can feel more lonely than being single and having no relationship.

Sadly he felt that way with my bio mom, and it had a negative impact on me and my siblings growing up. 

With my step mom (his second marriage), it was much different and although their marriage was mutually interdependent, he was never lonely and she became the love of his life! 

I'm glad I was able to witness it, otherwise I'd probably be more screwed up than I am already!  Lol 😆

Personally, I dislike statistics saying if first marriage failed so will second, including other faulty statistics.   They don't mean a hill of beans to me..  I realize people do place value on statistics I'm just not one of them, jmo on that.

To add, agree with the premise that with abundance one will feel less lonely. 

Yes sure there are those superficial people (imo) who value abundance and "quantity versus quality" but for many of us, including myself and the men in my social meet-up group who admitted feeling this way, it can feel more lonely dating/interacting with 5-10 different people if those interactions lack quality, substance and a genuine connection versus interacting with no one and waiting for the person with whom to develop a substantive quality connection.

Loneliness is a state of mind, and  if you love yourself first, value yourself first, there is no loneliness because you have yourself.  

It's a state of mind, again jmo. 

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

To add, agree with the premise that with abundance one will feel less lonely. 

Clarification:  ^I meant I disagree with this premise.  My previous post explains.

Edited January 9, 2022 by poppyfields

[Alpacalia]

People feel lonely for different reasons but it seems to be triggered for most by certain "big" life events.

I don't think there's enough data to suggest it's relatively new.

What are the experiences that make you feel lonely, exactly? What are some things you enjoy doing that make you feel...well...less lonely?

[Els]

On 1/10/2022 at 1:21 AM, FMW said:

In my experience, simply being married doesn't stop you from feeling lonely.  It can actually make the loneliness more pronounced, because what society tells us "should" be, is not.  If it's true that half of all marriages fail, I certainly don't see marriage in and of itself resulting in less loneliness.  Nor is dating or cohabitating, for the same reason.  

For me, truly connecting is what makes the difference.  We don't connect with just anyone, and for people who have more problems than most in making those connections (because of fear or distrust), loneliness can be more likely.  That's where being more involved and active with groups and organizations increase the odds of finding people with whom you really click, whether as friends or romantic partners.  COVID has almost certainly had a detrimental affect in that way.  

Maybe more people aren't necessarily feeling lonely now then ever before, maybe it's just with the internet people are able to express their emotions, good or bad, to a huge audience now and so it's an issue of which we're all more aware.  I've only been on Facebook since last summer and I'm constantly amazed at the emotional posts by some posters.  Add that to the sometimes false or exaggerated representations of how blissfully happy others are (Facebook photos and stories, for example),  it increases the feelings of some of being left out.  Even just ten years ago, fewer people were able (or willing) to express their feelings so openly.  All that openness has probably also increased the number of people feeling comfortable seeking counseling and therapy, thereby identifying more "lonely" people in official surveys and reports.  

Pretty much all of this.

I mean, I won't lie, I'm a huge sappy believer in marriage. 😄 Mine has brought so much happiness and joy to my life.

But it's hardly the magic bullet that people make it out to be. Just like all other things that a person chooses to have (or not have) in their life, it really is what the people involved make of it. "Marriage" in and of itself is meaningless technically - but having a person who "gets" you and vice versa, and whom you love spending time with - that's precious. Regardless of whether you are married to that person, or in a relationship with, or heck even just platonic or same-sex friends.

[neowulf]

I think the structure of our society has gradually eroded opportunities for shared experience and more importantly, suffering.

Shared suffering builds strong bonds between individuals.  Feeling "we're all in this together" can help form powerful bonds of connection and family.
Ask soldiers how they feel about the members of their unit.  

As it became easier for us to survive as individuals, the easier it came to express "the selfish gene".  In a practical sense, we don't "need" other people directly
the way we once did.  It's been abstracted.  We buy food off the shelf and fail to connect with the individuals who grew that food for us.

That abstraction makes it easier to take those connections for granted.  The number of people I know who put essentially zero effort into their friendships.
They never want to know about problems, never call to check on people, never offer to help in any practical way what so ever.  Then these same individuals experience
a crisis, look up and suddenly realise no one is there for them.

Relationships are gardens that require mutual care to flourish.  

 

[chillii]

On 1/14/2022 at 11:29 AM, neowulf said:

I think the structure of our society has gradually eroded opportunities for shared experience and more importantly, suffering.

Shared suffering builds strong bonds between individuals.  Feeling "we're all in this together" can help form powerful bonds of connection and family.
Ask soldiers how they feel about the members of their unit.  

As it became easier for us to survive as individuals, the easier it came to express "the selfish gene".  In a practical sense, we don't "need" other people directly
the way we once did.  It's been abstracted.  We buy food off the shelf and fail to connect with the individuals who grew that food for us.

That abstraction makes it easier to take those connections for granted.  The number of people I know who put essentially zero effort into their friendships.
They never want to know about problems, never call to check on people, never offer to help in any practical way what so ever.  Then these same individuals experience
a crisis, look up and suddenly realise no one is there for them.

Relationships are gardens that require mutual care to flourish.  

 

 

So many huge points through all this and l see it all through a lot of posts and that almighty next button. Doesn't take much does it and l often wonder how many posting have actually ever had/lived anything real between 2 people.

 

 

 

[Ollamide]

On 1/8/2022 at 9:59 PM, Foxhall said:

I do find your threads interesting actually,

on the one hand what you say there is correct, but then again I could skype someone the other side of the world now this minute, so in that sense we are more connected than ever before really, 

I probably would not have had that option if I was living in a previous generation,

perhaps people are finding it harder to satisfy their souls or obtain contentment in the present world.

 

 

 

Okay. 

Buh what I guess the writer trying to say here is not bout physical disconnection or connection, he sighted loneliness, you can be engage, married and living with great people and yet be lonely.

It's bout having people that feels your thought and emotions..... 

[Foxhall]

On 1/16/2022 at 7:38 PM, Ollamide said:

uh what I guess the writer trying to say here is not bout physical disconnection or connection, he sighted loneliness, you can be engage, married and living with great people and yet be lonely.

It's bout having people that feels your thought and emotions

Ah yeah, I know what you are saying,

a funny one, I picked up a new friend about a year ago, suits me if I fancy a game of squash or golf or something,

 hes an extroverted chap and myself am someone who likes people or company only in small doses, I dont enjoy over exposure to people shall we say,

Anyway he called to my house there and I invite him in, talk with or listen to him for two hours,

then I  had enough, right buddy I am getting bored now with this, have things to do, see you another time.

He would have sat there all day,

I suppose I felt I was a bit rude then after, ok clear this up, he just says he likes company and feels the need for talk and chat all the time, get away from his wife and so on.

what strikes me is despite the outgoing personality and all the rest, in essence he is still lonely.

 

 

[Prudence V]

On 1/9/2022 at 2:56 AM, poppyfields said:

I think the internet has negatively impacted the development of intimate/emotional connections more than covid.

My experience is the converse, TBH. I was a very lonely child, growing up in a place where i felt very different to those around me. When I left home for uni, I met a broader range of people and found some I could relate to, but it was only really later with the advent of the internet and the old Usenet groups that I found my “tribe”. Even now, many of my closest friends are people I’ve never met IRL. 
 

Perhaps it’s different for people who are more “samey” but for anyone who is at all different, in whatever way, finding connection needs a larger pool of people than immediate geographic possibilities allow.