Inappropriate feelings about engagement

[emmanick]

Can someone help talk sense into my stupid thoughts?

My boyfriend's adult daughter will be getting a proposal for marriage from her boyfriend on her birthday next month, two days before my own birthday and I want to be happy, but am feeling jealous and nervous that it will not happen for me. 

My boyfriend and I have only been together for 4 months, and I should be enjoying the new relationship and not worrying about a step it isn't time for yet. Our relationship is quite serious- we spend all our time together, and have basically melded into a family unit with our two respective minor kids who are best friends. We laugh all the time, have a lot in common, don't really fight, discuss common goals, and discuss the future. He talks about "when we are 80"....I left an abusive relationship and feel safe with him. He does things for me that no one ever has. I'm in love with him and I feel he does love me.

But, I'm tormented by insecurities because he was actually engaged to someone else last year- proposed at Christmas and I guess only lasted a couple more months. He supposedly hasn't spoken to her since last February, and I don't see any indication that he has any feelings for her left. 

I'm not only nervous because of the short time that has passed, but also because there are a couple things that make me feel he feels less for me than he did for her. For instance, he told me he spent $10,000 last Christmas, a big part on their rings. He is in debt now, and not only has never bought me anything, but has borrowed from me. I can imagine he hasn't recovered from that expense, but I still feel less than. 

He told me two conflicting stories about a pregnancy- one, that he lied and told someone his ex fiance was pregnant when she was not, and secondly, that she was actually pregnant and lost the child at 5 months. I don't know which is true. I don't think he realizes he told me two different stories. It was a big red flag, as are the other things above, but the positives seemed to outweigh them.

There was a conversation about those rings- he offered them to his daughter's boyfriend. He said that it is a bridal set, so she will still need an engagement ring. He told me that he didn't think I'd want those rings because they were originally for someone else, but that a diamond was missing and if he'd replace it, it would be like a new ring. But, I can't imagine him replacing a diamond or getting me any ring, he is broke. So I will watch his daughter get engaged while trying to feel happy for her as I should and want to. Then, my birthday is two days later, and I doubt he'll even take me to dinner without me paying. He actually keeps forgetting my birthday- when I found a way to mention it, he looked down. 

Later, his adult daughter was with us and I said something funny, and he yelled, "I'm going to marry this woman"....I was happy he said that, and it was enough to put everything to rest. I would have stopped worrying, but his younger daughter asked him what he said, if he said he was going to marry me, and he said, "I'm not!"......then I acted shocked and he said, that he hadn't meant it that way, he was under pressure, and "You can't know all of my plans"....so that implied he wanted to propose at some point, but I feel just so unhappy about all this.

What would you think? I'd like to put this all to rest in my mind somehow. I am really dreading my birthday.

 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, emmanick said:

My boyfriend and I have only been together for 4 months. he told me he spent $10,000 last Christmas, a big part on their rings

 

Dating 120 days is the time to observe learn about each other and see if you are a good fit. It's not the time to expect diamonds and plan weddings.

For example observe red flags like going on and on about his ex, complaining about debt related to her, being on the rebound, etc. 

Step way back and continue to observe all the glaring red flags and do not overinvest or get overinvolved in someone who whines about exes and debt.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Wiseman2

[emmanick]

Thank you Wiseman2, I'm trying to steer my thinking to what is really reasonable. It is so hard to admit seeing red flags when most things are going well, especially better than before, but they are still there. 

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, emmanick said:

He told me two conflicting stories about a pregnancy- one, that he lied and told someone his ex fiance was pregnant when she was not, and secondly, that she was actually pregnant and lost the child at 5 months. I don't know which is true. I don't think he realizes he told me two different stories. It was a big red flag, as are the other things above, but the positives seemed to outweigh them.

I'm curious as to why you didn't call him out on the above and have him clarify this for you.  Why?

[Els]

The daughter's engagement is entirely irrelevant to the issue in your relationship now, don't you think?

4 months is extremely early to get engaged. But honestly, do you even WANT to be married to this guy??? You're not even married and he's taking money from you. Is that the kind of marriage dynamic that you want - with a dude who is in debt, constantly borrowing from you (and when you are married he isn't even obliged to repay you), doesn't care about celebrating an event that you have told him is important to you?

[glows]

Ok... the ring broke and he is broke. He is giving a broken ring set to his daughter and her partner to use. He borrows from you. Does he intend to pay you back or are you a bank machine for him?

Regarding the pregnancy stories, it sounds like the first was hearsay (someone reporting to back to you what was said instead of you hearing it for yourself). The more pressing issue is why did the engagement break off with his ex? Was he in financial trouble before he proposed to his ex? 

I think you would do better with someone else. If you choose to stay in this relationship, develop better boundaries and limits regarding lending money and think about whether you both align in terms of your goals or future. 

[emmanick]

Hi Stillafool. The first time it was brought up, it was in an early conversation on the phone and we hadn't met in person yet. I considered it a red flag right away and decided to probably stop talking to him after that phone call, but I became enamored with him and continued.

He said that his child's mother was living in his house and he wanted her out, so he moved into his girlfriend's house and told the child's mother that the girlfriend was pregnant and he needed her to leave because he was getting married and needed his house back. He said it worked because she left and got a job to support herself from then on. I was appalled at the dishonesty, and too much drama with exes was something I didn't want. 

Later, we had bonded more and I was starting to fall in love with him, and we were talking about a someone who lost a child, and he said it happened to him with his ex fiance, and told the story about her being five months pregnant, them being engaged at Christmas, her losing the baby, and then they broke up. It seemed to me that he had forgotten the original story he told me, and I didn't have the nerve to mention the previous conflicting story. I just noted that there was something shady about him and I was going to limit my trust of him.

He has mentioned it later in the relationship out of the blue a couple times, using the story where there was a baby- once in front of his minor child, who said she remembered when he lost the baby. It's been so long he would not remember telling me that original story.

My gut is telling me that he told me the truth about how he lied and manipulated people over a fake pregnancy and that it may be why the ex fiance left him. There were comments on his facebook from her friend that I saw about him taking advantage of her somehow (of course another red flag). I think the reason his child thinks there was a baby would be because he lied to her mother, and therefore, to her. When we were just talking, he didn't probably realize I would be around him later on, and maybe when he felt more seriously about me and knew I'd be around, he needed me to believe there had been a pregnancy that was lost because that is what his child believes. 

Unfortunately writing all this out makes me see that I don't fully trust him and that it's irrational to want to marry someone with this mistrust. He is unaware of it because I just don't think he remembers telling me two stories. I now have no idea how to approach it or resolve the trust issue.

Most people tell lies and do things that are wrong, so I guess if he just told me he lied and for whatever reason, I could try to make sense of it. 

[Wiseman2]

24 minutes ago, emmanick said:

He said that his child's mother was living in his house and he wanted her out, so he moved into his girlfriend's house and told the child's mother that the girlfriend was pregnant and he needed her to leave because he was getting married and needed his house back. He said it worked because she left and got a job to support herself from then on. I was appalled at the dishonesty, and too much drama with exes was something I didn't want. 

And the red flags just keep piling up.🚩🚩

Seriously reconsider wasting more time on someone with a lack of integrity like this.🤡

[emmanick]

33 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

The daughter's engagement is entirely irrelevant to the issue in your relationship now, don't you think?

 

Thank you, Elswyth, Yes, it is irrelevant, and I know that I'm not thinking properly about this. I am worried that he is more attracted to me because he thinks I can help him than anything else.

[introverted1]

With the pregnancy stories, is it possible that both are true?  eg he told his ex the story to get her out and then, months later, his fiancee actually did become pregnant?

That said, I am not sure this is the most important issue.  I'm put off that 1) he was living with his ex and 2) told a lie to get her to move out rather than handling it as an adult, 3) spent money he didn't have on a ring set, 4) borrows money from you, with no plan to pay it back and 5) apparently does not have a job or has such a low-paying job that he can't even muster a small birthday present/dinner for you.

Why do you want to marry this guy?

[emmanick]

40 minutes ago, glows said:

Ok... the ring broke and he is broke. He is giving a broken ring set to his daughter and her partner to use. He borrows from you. Does he intend to pay you back or are you a bank machine for him?

Regarding the pregnancy stories, it sounds like the first was hearsay (someone reporting to back to you what was said instead of you hearing it for yourself). The more pressing issue is why did the engagement break off with his ex? Was he in financial trouble before he proposed to his ex? 

I think you would do better with someone else. If you choose to stay in this relationship, develop better boundaries and limits regarding lending money and think about whether you both align in terms of your goals or future. 

Hi glows,

When he first borrowed from me, he told me he'd pay me back right away, and did not. I was staying at his house a few weeks while trying to find my own place to live after leaving an abusive situation, and he did a lot of things for me that I would have had to pay someone for as I moved, so I thought I would let it go and told him not to worry about it. But, he has asked me for a little money here and there, and I do feel like a bank machine. He pays rarely, and has never given me any gift. I guess I'm afraid I won't be able to handle my jealousy on my birthday because I don't expect him to do anything with this record. 

He told me that his ex fiance went to her own house after she lost the baby and went back to her ex husband. This is such a sore subject for me now after that weird pregnancy thing that he knows I don't even like to think about it because I am concerned. I have told him I am concerned only because such a short time has passed. We have in spite of these red flags, a relationship that doesn't include arguing. I avoid uncomfortable conversations because I don't want to get upset in front of him and have him judge me for it. He tries to have uncomfortable conversations with me, but gave up and now avoids the topic, too. 

I think he has always been in financial trouble and he claims it was due to supporting his child's mother for so long, and again, I feel weird that he borrows from me and never gives me anything while explaining all the money he has spent on other women in the past, as if I have a different value to him. He may view it as I am independent and don't use him and will be more of a partner. He has basically said this. 

 

[emmanick]

3 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

With the pregnancy stories, is it possible that both are true?  eg he told his ex the story to get her out and then, months later, his fiancee actually did become pregnant?

That said, I am not sure this is the most important issue.  I'm put off that 1) he was living with his ex and 2) told a lie to get her to move out rather than handling it as an adult, 3) spent money he didn't have on a ring set, 4) borrows money from you, with no plan to pay it back and 5) apparently does not have a job or has such a low-paying job that he can't even muster a small birthday present/dinner for you.

Why do you want to marry this guy?

Hi introverted1,

It is possible that it happened that way, I thought about that as being something he would probably come up with to tell me if I did ask him about the two stories. I feel like at this point I will never trust him over this- I guess if we were to stay together we would have to communicate about it and resolve a trust issue. All this had nothing to do with me until I was told the story, and I guess I've been trying to look the other way. I was put off by the same things you were.

He has a job, middle class wages- he has had a combination of loans he is repaying, some money going to adult children, back child support, a custody case, a minor child living with him who wasn't last year, along with two adult children living there. So, it is reasonable that he is broke and a lot of it is from being irresponsible. I also have debt and have been irresponsible, so I don't want to judge him more harshly, but I can't deny it seems bad.

The relationship is really good in many other ways- the family dynamic with his children and mine is very good. He has some qualities I've always been looking for. I see it possible that in the coming months he could recover financially, and we could be a good team, helping with one another's issues. I am just absent enough trust due to this weird story.

 

[introverted1]

The poor money management is a huge red flag for me.  At a minimum, I would not give him any money, especially at only 4 months in.

What sort of dates do you have?  Are you living together?

[glows]

Gather your thoughts and have the conversation you feel is necessary about his past relationship/s or any questions you have about him. .

You just removed yourself from an abusive situation so I'd suspect anyone in your shoes to be a little raw and uncertain about all this. It seems you both entered this relationship transitioning from abuse and chaos, a specific need and friendship that was necessary to get out of a bad place. It continued on but perhaps has met an expiry? Or hit its limits? I'd reflect on how much of this is a relationship of convenience rather than love or mutual care and respect for one another. You say that this is really good in many other ways so a more balanced approach might be to date for another three to six months and decide whether he has what it takes to get his act together. 

I like to view a potential interest as they are, instead of what they may be given x, y, z changing circumstances. I think you ought to be a little more stern and hard with yourself about who you let into your life and be wary about your limits if you sense that you're being taken advantage of. Money isn't everything but it does help pay the bills and you can use it to leverage yourself against more difficulties. Be wary and conservative with what you have as it may not be there tomorrow at this rate or if he continues to ask for larger sums as you become more and more emotionally attached. If someone is dragging you down, don't put up with it. It would be so sad and heartbreaking to see a person leave an abusive relationship only to end up in another one that isn't a far cry from the past. 

 

 

[stillafool]

Definitely do not lend him anymore money that you will never see again.  His reaction will tell you about his feelings for you.  The next time he asks for money you might remind him of how many part time jobs that are available.  A second job will help to relieve his debt.

[ShyViolet]

Oh my goodness.  This relationship is just one red flag after another.  The last thing you should be worrying about is getting engaged.  Let's look at the facts here.... you left an abusive relationship and jumped right into this one, way too serious too soon.  You are basically a rebound for him as well, as he had this crazy, drama-filled engagement story right before he got with you.  He has lied to you about serious things, you're lending him money and he's using you as a "bank machine" as you put it.

WHYYYYY is your self-esteem so low that you stay with someone like this?  Stop worrying about getting engaged to this man.  You need to worry about why on earth you think it's acceptable to stay with a man like this.  You should be ENDING this relationship before he really screws up your life.

[Wiseman2]

33 minutes ago, emmanick said:

I was staying at his house a few weeks while trying to find my own place to live after leaving an abusive situation, and he did a lot of things for me that I would have had to pay someone for as I moved, so I thought I would let it go and told him not to worry about it.

Was the money you lent him in lieu of paying rent, living expenses, bills and moving expenses?

Either way it seems like you jumped from the frying pan to the fire with this man.

When you are in a bad place, such as seeking refuge from abuse, you make bad decisions and overlook things out of desperation for any help you can get.

You could use some time out to recover from your last relationship.

[Carlon]

Given that the guy is a liar, broke and lies about stuff, there are some red flags for sure. Most self respecting women wouldn't get involved with a broke guy who has been dishonest about something relatively important, even less would want to marry him.

But his potential character flaws are eclipsed by the one unshakable, extremely troubling fact which points to a severe problem within YOU and has absolutely nothing to do with him.

No matter how upstanding, honest or financially capable he isn't- you are already looking at him as a potential life partner and are jealous because your daughter is getting engaged and you aren't.

That's really.. bad.

[JRabbit]

One big red flag is someone wanting to move in together so soon, especially blending a family. It's just not smart or healthy to do that.

You mentioned you left an abusive relationship. Did you take time after to be single? Did you enter any counselling or therapy? It is common for women who suffer abusive relationships to ignore red flags and re enter them over and over.

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, emmanick said:

But, I'm tormented by insecurities

Tormented by insecurities comes from within. You might consider discussing this, and your relationship overall and/or the men you choose, with a therapist?

If you do this I suggest you make sure they are very experienced and not a weirdo as there are a few of those out there. Don't hesitate to change if they don't like you...

[Foxhall]

Has he shown any genuineness in the sense of feeling bad about borrowing money from you and outlined a specific plan of how he can repay you,

It would be wrong if he senses a vulnerability  that you are likely to just tolerate that,

If hes genuinely broke but your relationship is good otherwise, you can survive without any gifts maybe or treats for a while,

I dont think him being broke should be a dealbreaker, but obviously he cannot be borrowing money from you and you have to be strong enough to say No also to him.

dont be afraid to own your own values and to be firm and stress your boundaries. you dont have to compromise on those.  or he will walk all over you in a manipulative way.

Just test him out- even leaving money aside, see how he reacts if you dont agree with him on various topics or if you take different views,

be your own person always.

 

 

[FMW]

16 hours ago, emmanick said:

 I avoid uncomfortable conversations because I don't want to get upset in front of him and have him judge me for it. He tries to have uncomfortable conversations with me, but gave up and now avoids the topic, too.

You can't have a functional, meaningful relationship without having open communication, including uncomfortable conversations when necessary.  Without that communication you will be left with creating scenarios in your own head (like you're doing) as possible explanations for things, and instead of being able to understand what's really going on, you'll be left with uncertainty and resentment (like you have now).  

Stop giving him money.  Start talking.  

[spiderowl]

On 11/17/2021 at 6:04 PM, emmanick said:

I think he has always been in financial trouble and he claims it was due to supporting his child's mother for so long, and again, I feel weird that he borrows from me and never gives me anything while explaining all the money he has spent on other women in the past, as if I have a different value to him. He may view it as I am independent and don't use him and will be more of a partner. He has basically said this. 

This is concerning.

Why not ask him about the discrepancy in the baby story?  I think you deserve the truth.  It will help you to get a better sense of what kind of guy he is.

You left an abusive relationship and so were vulnerable at that point and he helped you with practical things.  That was good of him but it doesn't mean you owe him for life.  If he is in debt and not earning much - why?

Unless you are living in his house or something and would otherwise be paying rent, I would not loan him anything if he is not returning the favour.  He does not seem to be offering you anything and you do not trust him.  Maybe it is time for you to rethink this relationship.  You could have rushed into it when in a vulnerable state.

[stillafool]

TBH, even if everything was perfect with this guy at 4 months it's way too soon to expect an engagement ring.  Why are you in such a hurry to get married to him?  Or is all of this just jealousy because his daughter is getting engaged?  How long has she and her boyfriend been together?  Being resentful of someone else's happiness can throw a wrench in yours.

[jdesey]

Oh boy you got a situation here. Lying is a dealbreaker for me. But I’ve had to learn that the very hard way. When you catch someone in lies  and then you forgive them you’re endorsing it for future occurrences. They have no reason to stop lying because they know you’ll forgive them so they keep doing it. I know it’s gonna be hard to come to grips with.