How to be NOT a Creep

[luiscasabuena]

I'm 34 now and still single. But, actually, I didn't actively look for love until I was 30. Had my first girlfriend when I was 23. It was nothing serious, we broke up 4 months later. At age 31, I had my second girlfriend (our anniversary is January 4, 2019). We broke up in February 2020.

It was almost 4 years since I actively started pursuing love (January 2018). I recalled my history and noticed that plenty of women expressed interest in dating me, but I turned all of them down. I was very picky, I should say.

But when my 30s had set in, I started pursuing romance. Immediately, just a month later, I dated a beautiful beauty queen who intimated with me that she thinks I'm handsome. It didn't last long though. We're not communicating anymore. And so I realized that I actually have what women are looking for --- that I'm physically attractive and intelligent (with latin honors in college and was on dean's list in law school).

I dated two more beauty queens (one was my ex) who both told me in a really flirtatious manner that I'm handsome lol. This happened within the same year lol.

And so, I learned that I'm actually marketable. I'm just still single because I didn't look for love at all. If there's anything that makes me insecure, it's the fact that I'm already 34, but looking back, I realized it's because I didn't care at all.

But, here's the thing, I'm already getting desperate about my being single. And I now want to be back again in the dating field. I want someone who is pretty. 

The problem is, maybe I'm doing it all wrong. And my only clue is that, when I posted things about this in a forum, they told me I'm a creep. I know for sure I'm not. But if people think I'm a creep when I'm actually not, then the problem probably lies in their perception that I'm one.

Because, in all honesty, I'm not at all a creep. Maybe, I just don't know how to properly seduce a woman.

So my question is, how do you avoid being tagged as a "creep"?

[Wiseman2]

On 10/26/2021 at 3:34 AM, luiscasabuena said:

 So my question is, how do you avoid being tagged as a "creep"?

In general. Coming on too strong. Suffocating. Too sexual too soon. Chasing uninterested women. Staring and ogling.

Basically just be yourself and use good boundaries.

[Weezy1973]

What is your goal with dating? Are you looking to settle down, get married, have kids?

It seems like all of the value you place is women is their looks. And while that in itself is not necessarily creepy, it is the definition of objectifying women, which is quite shallow and that can be interpreted as creepy. Or more narcissistic. 
 

To be clear I’m not saying you objectify women, just from your post all you mentioned was them being a “beauty queen” and that you wanted to date someone pretty. Not much depth there. 

[Alpacalia]

I think it requires a combination of practical measures and self-awareness.

Talking on people's appearances, on the other hand, misses the point when it comes to creepy behavior.

Also, I would avoid getting too personal too early on.

Unless she's at ease and telling her own stories.

You'll have to become used to paying close attention to something you're not used to: other people. That suggests you don't get to decide on other people's levels of comfort. People are free to set their own comfort levels to whatever arbitrary levels they deem fit.

[elaine567]

 

What makes a person creepy? And what purpose do our creep detectors serve? A psychologist explains

[OatsAndHall]

Always bear in mind that you're a stranger to the women you date.  It's going to take time before a woman is truly comfortable with you; a couple of dates doesn't cut it. So make your interaction on dates pleasant, polite and disarming. This typically means leaving the "charm" at home (trust me, few people are as charming as they think they are), knowing how and when to compliment appearance and just making the dates laid back and fun. If you're going to compliment an appearance early on, keep it polite (i.e. "You look quite nice tonight") and don't do it early on (unless it's in reciprocation).  I had much more success dating when I learned to having an end-game (i.e. a relationship) and just focused on enjoying myself and the woman's company.

 

[Mrin]

I'm half tempted to create a "How to be creepy" thread just to capture what not to do.

Okay, so many things to list but here's a mindset that might help you. I assume you've been around and played with dogs. And have been around cats. Right? There is a distinct difference in how you act. 

Rule of thumb: If your behavior is like the type of things you would do with a dog (metaphorically speaking), then its probably creepy. If it is more like you would do with a cat (again, metaphorically speaking), then is probably the better choice. 

Example: If you want a dog to hop on your lap, you sit down and repeatedly smack your thighs and call the dog's name in an encouraging way. If you want a cat to sit in your lap, you simply sit down and make for a comfortable lap to sit on. You might do a subtle gesture or pat on your lap to call it to the cat's attention. The cat will decide whether it wants to sit in it or not. If you repeatedly call the cats name and smack your lap the cat will probably leave the room.

Okay, so how does this translate to behavior with women? Well, if you want to take her out on a date, then ask her. Be specific with the date, time and activity/place. She'll decide whether she wants to go or not. That's cat behavior. Dog behavior would be to repeatedly call/text her asking to take her out until she finally says yes or blocks your number.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Mrin

[OatsAndHall]

To be fair to the OP, there are situations where a behavior is construed by one party as "creepy" when it's really quite innocent. I was chatting with a woman via OLD and I asked her out for coffee on a Saturday afternoon and she stated that she didn't know if that would work for her. Initially, I figured she wasn't interested yet she kept messaging continually me throughout the week. Come Thursday, I was trying to nail down plans for the weekend so I asked her if she knew a time that would work for her that weekend. She shot back with "Dude, you're being pushy which is a turn off, let's just text and get to know one another."

I politely told her that I didn't think we'd get to know each other via text and that I preferred meeting face to face. I also said I understood if she was uncomfortable doing so and wished her well.

Her response to that:

"Bugging someone to meet you is just creepy."

[glows]

3 minutes ago, OatsAndHall said:

To be fair to the OP, there are situations where a behavior is construed by one party as "creepy" when it's really quite innocent. I was chatting with a woman via OLD and I asked her out for coffee on a Saturday afternoon and she stated that she didn't know if that would work for her. Initially, I figured she wasn't interested yet she kept messaging continually me throughout the week. Come Thursday, I was trying to nail down plans for the weekend so I asked her if she knew a time that would work for her that weekend. She shot back with "Dude, you're being pushy which is a turn off, let's just text and get to know one another."

I politely told her that I didn't think we'd get to know each other via text and that I preferred meeting face to face. I also said I understood if she was uncomfortable doing so and wished her well.

Her response to that:

"Bugging someone to meet you is just creepy."

A bullet dodged. 

[ajequals]

53 minutes ago, OatsAndHall said:

To be fair to the OP, there are situations where a behavior is construed by one party as "creepy" when it's really quite innocent. I was chatting with a woman via OLD and I asked her out for coffee on a Saturday afternoon and she stated that she didn't know if that would work for her. Initially, I figured she wasn't interested yet she kept messaging continually me throughout the week. Come Thursday, I was trying to nail down plans for the weekend so I asked her if she knew a time that would work for her that weekend. She shot back with "Dude, you're being pushy which is a turn off, let's just text and get to know one another."

I politely told her that I didn't think we'd get to know each other via text and that I preferred meeting face to face. I also said I understood if she was uncomfortable doing so and wished her well.

Her response to that:

"Bugging someone to meet you is just creepy."  

Yea ... A clear issue with tech. no one knows how to interact in person anymore . To me texting is the worse way to communicate . You need to see the person's face to gauge where things are going

 

[mark clemson]

On 10/26/2021 at 12:34 AM, luiscasabuena said:

So my question is, how do you avoid being tagged as a "creep"?

 

Generally, I would say to wait for the woman to give a signal of interest before making any significant overtures beyond friendly, engaging platonic conversation. This signal might be a smile, a knowing look, or her starting the conversation with you, steering an existing conversation in a more flirty or romantic direction, body language or a brief remark that indicates potential for romantic interest. Women often communicate their interest indirectly with the intent for you to "catch on" or not miss the cue. Of course, this can sometimes lead to misinterpretation or missed cues. C'est la vie 🙂.

If you are good looking as you say, simply being around a space where there are available women should net you some opportunities. Being as attractive as possible (e.g. WRT haircut, facial grooming and clothes that you look good it) is an excellent starting point but of course generally there has to be good personality/social skills beyond that to actually get anywhere. Body language is also important - you want to "radiate confidence" without being over-the-top about it. (This can be a fine line.)

From what you write I suspect your social skills may be slightly off. Perhaps you look but don't speak? Start the conversation toward romance/intimacy before establishing sufficient rapport? I'm not sure, it's hard to say without knowing you.

Some things to keep in mind:

- Even if your very attractive, only some reasonably small % of women in any given normal situation will actually be interested. Think maybe 10-20% tops. Women simply aren't always "looking." Furthermore "signals" can be ambiguous as a woman may just be acknowledging that you're cute without have genuine interest in starting something at that very moment. So take care not to over-interpret the signals you do get, but use them as a starting point only and approach with a bit of reasonable caution instead of assuming "it's on" just from that. Sometimes it is, but often it's a green light to move forward, but not necessarily a green light to move forward too far/in too much of a hurry.

- It's important to be interested but to not seem too interested, particularly right at the start. You don't want to be awkwardly hanging around without making conversation or having something worthwhile to do other than looking at the woman and waiting for her to say something. I think this sort of thing really puts many women off. Basically you don't want to show poor social skills, which may trigger her "shoo" response (see below). You are a confident, attractive guy and don't need to hang around waiting on her every word, etc.

- Women and particularly attractive women unfortunately are forced to get in the habit of shooing off interested men who the woman isn't interested in and/or who have poor social skills. As you might imagine, this becomes tiresome after a while and I suspect many women will jump to the "creep" label, which is a good one for driving such men away. So, it is probably overused by women who find it a convenient way to drive off a pesky male.

- There are also those in the world who are bitter for one reason or another (including romantic difficulties) and find the "creep" label a convenient one to insult/demean/judge others without overstepping the bounds of what's socially acceptable.

So overall, I wouldn't take this creep label to heart, it's just part of the social "game" that people play, overused, and in the vast majority of cases inappropriately applied. Women generally won't label an attractive man who doesn't overstep social bounds a creep, but SOME bitter women WILL use this to lash out.

Edited November 1, 2021 by mark clemson

[OatsAndHall]

21 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Women and particularly attractive women unfortunately are forced to get in the habit of shooing off interested men who the woman isn't interested in and/or who have poor social skills. As you might imagine, this becomes tiresome after a while and I suspect many women will jump to the "creep" label, which is a good one for driving such men away. So, it is probably overused by women who find it a convenient way to drive off a pesky male.

I agree, especially when dealing with OLD. I know there are guys out there who seriously overstep bounds and I would absolutely describe them as "creepy". I tend to think the rest are just socially inept and inexperienced at dating.  I know I struggled when I first hit the market as it can be difficult waters to navigate. One woman's "creepy" can be another woman's "charming". I used to refer to a woman as "pretty lady" early on as it's flirtatious and reasonably innocent. Many women found it disarming and flattering while it turned others off. There was no ill-intent or sexual innuendo behind it but some women disliked it.

And, I had to realize that the flirty behavior that can go on via text often doesn't fly face to face. The technological space makes it more comfortable for people to be flirty but that can change quickly face to face. And, I'm not talking about sexual innuendo (I find that absolutely boorish); just simple flirting. I learned that the hard way on a first date..

[Fox Sake]

I think the problem is your desire and your fear. 
It’s taking over your emotions and probably comes across in your communication with women. I know it certainly came across in your post. Desperate never gets what it really wants. 
 

Maybe try tackling what it is that you’re fearing about your age. That seems to be the focal point of your problems right now…. I think once you deal with that you will start to relax more and not have to question being a creep. 
 

 

On 10/26/2021 at 8:34 AM, luiscasabuena said:

I'm 34 now and still single. But, actually, I didn't actively look for love until I was 30. Had my first girlfriend when I was 23. It was nothing serious, we broke up 4 months later. At age 31, I had my second girlfriend (our anniversary is January 4, 2019). We broke up in February 2020.

It was almost 4 years since I actively started pursuing love (January 2018). I recalled my history and noticed that plenty of women expressed interest in dating me, but I turned all of them down. I was very picky, I should say.

But when my 30s had set in, I started pursuing romance. Immediately, just a month later, I dated a beautiful beauty queen who intimated with me that she thinks I'm handsome. It didn't last long though. We're not communicating anymore. And so I realized that I actually have what women are looking for --- that I'm physically attractive and intelligent (with latin honors in college and was on dean's list in law school).

I dated two more beauty queens (one was my ex) who both told me in a really flirtatious manner that I'm handsome lol. This happened within the same year lol.

And so, I learned that I'm actually marketable. I'm just still single because I didn't look for love at all. If there's anything that makes me insecure, it's the fact that I'm already 34, but looking back, I realized it's because I didn't care at all.

But, here's the thing, I'm already getting desperate about my being single. And I now want to be back again in the dating field. I want someone who is pretty. 

The problem is, maybe I'm doing it all wrong. And my only clue is that, when I posted things about this in a forum, they told me I'm a creep. I know for sure I'm not. But if people think I'm a creep when I'm actually not, then the problem probably lies in their perception that I'm one.

Because, in all honesty, I'm not at all a creep. Maybe, I just don't know how to properly seduce a woman.

So my question is, how do you avoid being tagged as a "creep"?

 

 

[Els]

3 hours ago, Mrin said:

Example: If you want a dog to hop on your lap, you sit down and repeatedly smack your thighs and call the dog's name in an encouraging way. If you want a cat to sit in your lap, you simply sit down and make for a comfortable lap to sit on. You might do a subtle gesture or pat on your lap to call it to the cat's attention. The cat will decide whether it wants to sit in it or not. If you repeatedly call the cats name and smack your lap the cat will probably leave the room.

Huh. Well, that's interesting and a lightbulb moment - now I know why I haven't been so great with dogs!! 😂

[Girl Fade Away]

On 10/26/2021 at 12:34 AM, luiscasabuena said:

The problem is, maybe I'm doing it all wrong. And my only clue is that, when I posted things about this in a forum, they told me I'm a creep. I know for sure I'm not. But if people think I'm a creep when I'm actually not, then the problem probably lies in their perception that I'm one.

Who is *they*?  The women you date or posters on a forum?

[Carlon]

On 10/26/2021 at 3:34 AM, luiscasabuena said:

The problem is, maybe I'm doing it all wrong. And my only clue is that, when I posted things about this in a forum, they told me I'm a creep. I know for sure I'm not. But if people think I'm a creep when I'm actually not, then the problem probably lies in their perception that I'm one.

Most creepy, or marginal individuals don't know they are.

They are unaware that the image they present to the world is a turnoff.

Clearly something is very wrong here.

If random internet people are reading your posts and labeling you as a creep, at the very least you're coming across as one but they've got the wrong idea or- more likely you actually are one and don't know it.

 

[dramafreezone]

On 10/26/2021 at 12:34 AM, luiscasabuena said:

The problem is, maybe I'm doing it all wrong. And my only clue is that, when I posted things about this in a forum, they told me I'm a creep. I know for sure I'm not. But if people think I'm a creep when I'm actually not, then the problem probably lies in their perception that I'm one.

Because, in all honesty, I'm not at all a creep. Maybe, I just don't know how to properly seduce a woman.

So my question is, how do you avoid being tagged as a "creep"?

Don't worry about being called a creep.

First of all, the creep label will mostly come from women who aren't attracted to you.  No one that I ever hooked up with or had a relationship with ever called me a creep, so if the same applies to you, you're not inherently a creep.  So why are you so worried about what women who you'll never date in all likelihood think about you?  Most every guy has been labeled a creep by *someone*, it doesn't matter how much you try not to be, others are just going to think whatever they want and you can't control what they think.

Can a woman look at you and have a level of attraction, then be creeped out by you?  Yes definitely but you have to really be a weirdo for that to occur.  To avoid that from happening, I would just say don't overpursue women.  For instance, if you send a text and they aren't contacting you back, leave it at that, don't double and triple text.  That's a surefire way to creep-ville, texting too much when you aren't being texted back, it's a form of stalking.

I think creepiness at its core is high attraction from one side that's not being reciprocated by the other side.  So if a woman is not at all looking at you or interested in you in the slightest, keep it moving, don't oogle or gaze at her.  That is textbook creepy behavior.  The creepiness that they feel is due to the fact that they know you are thinking about them sexually, and I get why they feel grossed out at that when they don't even see you as a viable candidate.

But honestly I would only focus on the women that are actually interested in you, don't overpursue them.  Other than that try not to gaze or stare at women you don't know.  That's all I would worry about, if they're "creeped out" still, that's their issue and not yours.

Edited November 1, 2021 by dramafreezone

[basil67]

12 minutes ago, Carlon said:

Most creepy, or marginal individuals don't know they are.

They are unaware that the image they present to the world is a turnoff.

Clearly something is very wrong here.

If random internet people are reading your posts and labeling you as a creep, at the very least you're coming across as one but they've got the wrong idea or- more likely you actually are one and don't know it.

 

Indeed.  If one person on a forum tells you you're being creepy, then don't pay too much attention.  But if lots of female posters are saying you're being creepy, then you likely are being exactly that.

@luiscasabuena The answer lies in what you were describing.  Can you tell us what you did/said which they called creepy?

[Els]

I'll be honest, I find the opening post unattractive.

But I am just one woman, and I probably also wouldn't classify it as "creepy" per se.

[Foxhall]

On 10/26/2021 at 8:34 AM, luiscasabuena said:

I dated two more beauty queens (one was my ex) who both told me in a really flirtatious manner that I'm handsome lol. This happened within the same year lol.

well you probably have a head start on most guys them. let the women come to you,

If your flirty by nature and have a natural sexual agenda, it is possible some women will find this creepy if they are not into you,

similarly someone who is too quiet nothing to say could be deemed creepy,

You dont need to force it as much- if you think in terms of a tennis match even, getting a rally going with a nice flow of shots to relax and get into the game,

you dont have to go for the big shot straight away- enjoy the initial conversation, be happy to get to know them and then your natural flirty skills should take over then,

If you allow me to self indulge briefly, I dont think women ever thought me creepy- always a gentleman,

but then again that probably leads to more friends zone situations than bedroom action,

Anyway- put them at ease in your company is always a good thing to bear in mind.

 

[luiscasabuena]

21 hours ago, Girl Fade Away said:

Who is *they*?  The women you date or posters on a forum?

Posters on a forum. The women have been nice with me.

[luiscasabuena]

20 hours ago, basil67 said:

Indeed.  If one person on a forum tells you you're being creepy, then don't pay too much attention.  But if lots of female posters are saying you're being creepy, then you likely are being exactly that.

@luiscasabuena The answer lies in what you were describing.  Can you tell us what you did/said which they called creepy?

I just said, I saw a girl and found her pretty. We had a staring contest that went on for about 5 minutes. As I was going out of the bank, she looked in my eye in my direction (towards the doors of the bank). The following day, boom, lockdown. We never saw each other again. I posted this on one site. I was tagged as "creepy."

[luiscasabuena]

On 11/1/2021 at 8:07 PM, Weezy1973 said:

What is your goal with dating? Are you looking to settle down, get married, have kids?

It seems like all of the value you place is women is their looks. And while that in itself is not necessarily creepy, it is the definition of objectifying women, which is quite shallow and that can be interpreted as creepy. Or more narcissistic. 
 

To be clear I’m not saying you objectify women, just from your post all you mentioned was them being a “beauty queen” and that you wanted to date someone pretty. Not much depth there. 

I want to settle down, get married, and have kids.

[dramafreezone]

10 hours ago, Foxhall said:

If your flirty by nature and have a natural sexual agenda, it is possible some women will find this creepy if they are not into you,

 

Flirty behavior when they find you attractive is "bold" and "he knows how to make me feel good." 

When they aren't attracted to you it's "You're being creepy."

OP, if you're a flirty type, you're just going to come across as creepy to women who don't find you to be their cup of tea, or who believe that a gentleman is supposed to be more discrete.  That just comes with the territory of being a flirt.

Every behavior has pros and cons.  If you're the opposite of flirty, meaning you're reserved and go to great lengths to respect everyone's boundaries, then you'll probably hardly ever give people a creepy vibe, but interested women may think you don't even like them.   I say you have to be who you are, as long as it's not behavior that gets you into legal or HR trouble at work.

Edited November 2, 2021 by dramafreezone

[dramafreezone]

2 hours ago, luiscasabuena said:

I just said, I saw a girl and found her pretty. We had a staring contest that went on for about 5 minutes. As I was going out of the bank, she looked in my eye in my direction (towards the doors of the bank). The following day, boom, lockdown. We never saw each other again. I posted this on one site. I was tagged as "creepy."

Ok, well why didn't you go talk to her?  

If you're not going to speak to her, why stare?  If she didn't try to avoid eye contact, odds are she wanted you to come talk to her.