What just happened? I need your views.

[anika99]

21 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I wouldn´t say I threw myself at him. I spoke my mind. I went for what I wanted for my life. I have been the good mother and wife long enough. I hasn´t got me anywhere good. I want what I want I am not afraid to ask for it. He could have said no. He still can. Only he is saying "maybe not" with his words, and a huge YES with his actions.

So this is what you want? To be someone's dirty secret? To be an object that he takes out of the closet from time to time to make himself feel good and then puts away when he needs to tend to real life? 

You got hurt in your marriage and so now you have decided to be selfish even if that means hurting other people but you don't realize yet that you are also hurting yourself. You say you always being the good person who gives hasn't been healthy for you but what you are doing now is also not healthy. It comes down to boundaries and respecting your boundaries. You gave too much because you didn't have healthy boundaries and now you are pursuing a married man because you don't have healthy boundaries. It's perfectly possible to be a giving, honest upstanding person AND take care of yourself and your needs. You are not taking care of yourself right now, you are betraying yourself and you will pay a heavy price for that. 

You're being flippant here about going for what you want and not being conventional and all that nonsense but you know what you are doing is straight up wrong otherwise you wouldn't be so eager to keep this relationship a secret. You don't want your daughter to know or the people in your circle to know because you know it's wrong and you don't want your daughter or others to know and lose their respect for you. 

Right now everything you have written here has been pretty textbook for an affair. Being newly divorced and then going straight into the arms of a married man seems to be pretty common in the stories I've seen here. Everything the MM has said to you about his wife is also textbook right down to the "my wife won't notice that I'm having an affair and if she does she won't care" Well we already know that he lied about that because she did notice and she did care. Now he's already moved onto the push/pull game that all MM like to play. They give out mixed messages so that you never know where you stand or what you can expect. Says he just wants to be friends while still behaving inappropriately. Seen that about million times on this board. So you think that you're affair is special and unique but read a bunch of the other threads on this board and you will see that it's just a common affair like all the other affairs here. You may be enjoying eating the forbidden fruit in this moment but a year from now you will be crying in your beer over this guy and your self esteem will be in the toilet. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I just want to explore this relationship and see where it goes because I believe the connection that has been established between us is real and beautiful.

It’s not going to go anywhere - he is married and he has told you that all he can offer at this point is friendship and perhaps sex. 

This “connection” that you share is really nothing more than infatuation and attraction. That’s not real and beautiful - it tends to be intense and fleeting. There is nothing beautiful about this - you know you need to keep it hidden and secret because this relationship would be considered by many to be ugly and shameful. 

1 hour ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

Some of you mention that the wife seems non existant to me. Well, she certainly seems non existant to him

No, she doesn’t. He has told you that he has continued to invest in the marriage, how he was surprised that she cared he was talking with another woman, that he doesn’t want to hurt her, that they have had sex. He has a history with her, they share a child and a life, she is the woman with whom he has chosen to build a life whether you chose to acknowledge that or not. 

1 hour ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I asked him whether he had a friend he could borrow a place from. He suggested a hotel.  I wouldn´t like to meet at a hotel for sex, it´s too impersonal. He said he had no friends he could ask for this kind of favor,  so I offered to find a place for us.

Good Lord. A hotel is too impersonal but you have no problem having sex in the home of one of his friends? 🙄

It’s pretty clear that you intend to pursue this fools errand despite the advice offered here. As they say, there are some lessons that need to be learned the hard way. As this affair is classically textbook in terms of how it has developed, it will also be textbook when you are discovered. His wife is already onto you - imagine when she discovers that this has progressed and shares that news all over town. Imagine how your daughter will feel when she learns of this relationship. Prepare yourself - the fun has only begun…

Edited August 8, 2021 by BaileyB

[Ha-ha]

1 hour ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

We did pick up the sex topic again. We had been discussing it before his wife found out about us. I asked him whether he had a friend he could borrow a place from. He suggested a hotel.  I wouldn´t like to meet at a hotel for sex, it´s too impersonal. He said he had no friends he could ask for this kind of favor,  so I offered to find a place for us. He said he can´t have me over at his house for physical intimacy, which I can totally understand, and I can´t have him over to mine either, so we´ll see what happens. 

Wow. I read this board a lot and I can sympathise with OW. Some are caught by unfortunate circumstances, some made bad choices. Life happened.  And I am sorry for the struggles they have. Some come out stronger, some not and a few even have their happy endings.

 But BS who insisted on having her own happiness at the cost of another BS is just cruel. And to justify it with sudden righteousness that BS is MM problem?  And pursued a married man while performing mental gymnastics to justify her actions? I have no words. 

Obviously OP can do whatever she see fits for her but hey, if she’s so sure about her 'sweet' MM and their relationship, why ask us, a bunch of strangers for validation or whatever?  

Edited August 8, 2021 by Berlin
Clarity

[ExpatInItaly]

You are going to get your heart utterly trampled on, OP. 

[heartwhole2]

On 8/7/2021 at 9:07 AM, Iwantthisformyself said:

I really needed someone to talk to as I had discovered some months before that my husband had been cheating on me with a neighbor, and would not admit it or stop his affair. He was the most understanding and sympathetic person I had ever spoken to, he was a really good listener - which was totally new for me, as my husband was never that way- and talking to him made me feel like someone really understood wat I was going through. 

It's possible that MM is really understanding and sympathetic, but it's also possible that your husband would make a tree stump look really great by comparison. In other words, you're going through a huge transition and have bonded with the first person who showed you some attention. 

 

On 8/7/2021 at 9:07 AM, Iwantthisformyself said:

I felt that he was still invading my life in every area of it, that I wanted something he was not a part of that fulfilled me emotionally. So one day three weeks ago, I asked my MM for a drive home from work and he agreed.

This is very interesting. You are feeling suffocated by your ex and feel like having something for yourself will help with that. But it won't change your dynamic with your ex, right? So is it just a band-aid?
 

On 8/7/2021 at 9:07 AM, Iwantthisformyself said:

I asked what his wife would think if she found out, and he said it was complicated but he was sure she wouldn´t notice, and if she did she wouldn´t care. It sounded weird, but I was so happy that I did not want to ruin our moment

So in the moment, you had some clarity. "Hmmm, it seems weird that he would think his wife wouldn't notice or care. How can that add up?" And then, indeed, you found out later that it didn't:
 

On 8/7/2021 at 9:07 AM, Iwantthisformyself said:

She asked him if he was in a relationshp with someone and he said it was not clear: he was spending time with someone but he could not call that a relationship. OUCH. He also said he had had sex with her twice after months since their talk about us ( do not know who initiated) and that somehow it had felt that he was bertaying me. He also said that she had cried when he told her and he was not expecting that at all, it took him completely by surprise and he didn´t want to hurt her.

So what he had told you was false. Not knowingly, of course. He really believes that he is "abandoned." 

 

On 8/7/2021 at 9:07 AM, Iwantthisformyself said:

his wife spends all of her time and energy on his therapies and school meetings, plus she has am full -time job, and has completely abandoned him. He says he can´t interact with his child properly because the kid is all about his mum, and she doesn´t even include him in family decisions anymore, so he is basically invisible in his home. He never said anything mean about her, in fact he said he understood why she had brushed him aside: he didn´t know how to help her, wasn´t much help, and made things more complicated if he tried to participate. Only thing he said that could be negative about her is that their sex life had been emotionally distant for some years, and for the last months it had been non existent. He has been sleeping in the guest room for 8 months with some silly excuse which she has not challenged because she really does not care (his words). He´s the sweetest guy I ´ve ever known.

Translation: he's not a grown man with agency. Rather, he has been railroaded and abandoned by his wife who simply will not allow him to make decisions. Even when he makes decisions, like moves out of the bedroom, really it's her fault because she didn't make a fuss. Not being a hands on father is not on him. Moving out of the bedroom is not on him. It's all on the wife who simply doesn't care except, oops, back to when he made that shocking discovery. ^^^

 

On 8/7/2021 at 11:34 AM, Iwantthisformyself said:

What broke us was that he was not even willing to tell me the truth and acknowledge what he had been doing. Still is not even today.

What if your partner does not tell you the truth or acknowledge what he has been doing because he has a significant lack of self-awareness? You're trading one type of dishonest relationship for another. And while the former (outright gaslighting) is more malevolent, the latter (viewing oneself as a victim without agency) is more insidious. 

[heartwhole2]

21 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

He is more than willing to help. She just doesn´t make room for him in his child´s life, from what he told me. He´s constantly finding new therapists, diets, nutritional commplenets etc. His child feels his mum is his world and hardly acknowledges him as a father figure. He has tried for years to put his energy into the relationship with them both with no results. He just feels invisible, frustrated and I guess he sort of gave up.

If he is so willing to help, then why is he so ineffectual at it? 

Here's the thing about conflict avoidant people. The idea of a difficult conversation is so unappealing that they decide that no one could possibly expect them to speak their mind or advocate for themselves. So when a conflict avoidant person's partner isn't able to mind-read 100% of the time, there goes any chance for honest communication or feeling understood. 

[heartwhole2]

It's a bit heartbreaking when you try to explain what is so sweet about this relationship because it all seems pretty standard to me. A poem, some gazing into one another's eyes, listening to each other . . . really these are not such extraordinary finds that they warrant finagling a half-relationship with an unavailable person. 

It seems clear that you need people in your life right now for support. You've just gone through the awfulness of having your ex lie to you and now he's always around, no doubt just as manipulative and self-absorbed as ever. What you really need is a platonic friend to spend time with. I can totally understand that after everything with your ex, it is invigorating to feel seen and desired, but please believe us that that's what you're going to find when you look for it in the right places! Despite my only experience with infidelity being on the BW side of things, it's not that I can't see circumstances in which unconventional, as you call them, relationships can be had without harm or risk. But this isn't it. This is a kind but fatally self-deluded man whose conflict avoidance and victim mentality are going to drive you bonkers once the initial allure has worn off. And that's best case scenario, considering that you aren't outed to your families and community. 

You can have your cake and eat it too, but not with this guy. We're pretty sure this cake is going to give you severe food poisoning. 

[Seliana]

3 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You are going to get your heart utterly trampled on, OP. 

I usually don't will people ill, but in this case, I think she deserves this. As a BS, you'd think she'd not want to be responsible for another's pain. Hopefully, it will blow up sooner rather than later, so she can have her booby prize and her AP's BS will move on that much sooner from him.

[Peacelovesooners]

On 8/8/2021 at 3:25 AM, Iwantthisformyself said:

I wouldn´t say I threw myself at him. I spoke my mind. I went for what I wanted for my life. I have been the good mother and wife long enough. I hasn´t got me anywhere good. I want what I want I am not afraid to ask for it.

Like another poster said….have you no shame?

Your name says it all. You want this for yourself, consequences be damned. And you DID throw yourself at him. 

On 8/8/2021 at 3:30 AM, Iwantthisformyself said:

and I have come to realise that I have always been the good girl, always putting my needs and wants after others. It has been super harmful for me. No more of that. Of course he is green pasture: he is kind, open, sincere and super affectionate. What is wrong with being attracted to someone like this? I think the OW category is a cliche. I am a woman he has feelings for. Marriage does not make you blind to other people.

Your actions seem incredibly selfish, blind and delusional. He has a wife. You can romanticize it all you want but you ARE the other woman. Period. And you are not entitled to whatever this is because you have been “the good girl.”  

On 8/8/2021 at 3:43 AM, Iwantthisformyself said:

I don´t believe an affair/affair partner can be the reason a marriage ends. If this happens, it is because the marriage was already over.

Does this help you justify your behavior? Make you feel better about what you’re doing? Just because you feel this way doesn’t mean other people agree. You may not care if you live with someone who is willing to throw a marriage and marriage vows out the window but it IS a dealbreaker for a lot of people. You have no business projecting that belief on others. This “great” guy, if you have your way, is going to cheat on his wife who, by your own admission, spends most of her time taking care of their special needs child. Do you have any idea what that’s like? It’s not easy. Repeat. IT IS NOT EASY. If anyone deserves some understanding, I would venture to say it’s the wife. Not the poor, neglected man-child who apparently has no idea what’s going on in his own marriage. And let’s say you wear this guy down and he enters into a physical affair with you. What happens when the s**t hits the fan (and it will)? You will have decimated the lives of everyone close to the situation. His, his wife’s, his child’s, their extended family, your own, you might lose your job, he might lose his. Does any of that matter to you at all? And for what? Because you want this for yourself? Then again, if he’s so callous  as to invite you into his wife’s home, maybe you two deserve each other. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[Iwantthisformyself]

Thank you everyone for your input. You have given me a lot to think about, again. I specially appreciate the comments regarding my ex H. It is true that ANYONE would seem like paradise compared to him, but that is not the case with MM. He really is something special.

There is no way I am willing to be his "dirty little secret". We are secret because I want it so. This is probably the ONE thing I have control over in my life. I cannot control what my ex does ( he keeps coming to the house, checks my phone, wanted me to get a new private teacher for my daughter because her current one is a male and he thinks he is trying to seduce me, asks about my daily routine under the excuse of arranging who will use the car every day, etc) MM understands I need a certain level of control over this, as I have shared this with him. That is why you all have the feeling I am the one initiating most moves. I need it to be like this. 

My ex obviously lacks self awareness, and is therefore dishonest. But MM is not dishonest with me at all. He feels abandoned and he shares that. He discusses me with his wife and he shares that. Thay have sex and he shares that. He has doubts and he shares that. I wish my 15 year long marriage had had a quarter of this "dishonesty". We would probably still be together.

I really do not feel he is conflict avoidant. I see him at work and he is not like that at all. And he shared he has tried to discuss many things with his wife over the years, but they cannot agree and she ends up making her own decisions.

I do not believe the things that have happened between us are standard. Having someone open up their heart to you , and inspiring you to open up your heart to them is not standard. It is a miracle! It doesn´t happen everyday. I cannot happen with anyone. It takes two people with the same sensitivity and a genuine like for one another. 

I don´t have so many people in my life. Never did. I am a reserved person. I only have one best friend who knows everything about this and is so happy I can fall in love again, and I have found someone who has fallen in live with me, something I did not believe possible. I have all her support. Both my parents have passed away, and I have a distant relationship with my only sister. My mom´s demise 2 years ago was particularly hard on me. She died after having suffered from a degenerative neurological problem, which was twice as traumatic because she was not herself any longer when she passed. I get to talk about his a lot with MM and it feels so nice to have someone to process this with.

I have looked at some other OW threads today, as you suggested. It is difficult form me to understand why many of them would be traumatised after an affair. When a relationship ends, you grieve it and you move on. I grieved my 15 year long marriage in a year, under quite traumatising circumstances, and I am back on my feet. And i was deceived, manipulated, gaslighted and made to feel really insignificant, believe me. I don´t think my suffering was less than any of theirs. But I am back on my feet now. I stayed strong for my kids' sake, It was hard on them too, esecially because they knew the reason why we were divorcing.

 

I do not feel like I need to justify my behavior. My behaviour makes sense to me, and to him. Nobody else needs to understand it or agree with it. I came here looking for input that would perhaps make me think in directions that I had not considered, and it certainly has.

I am not afraid of having my heart broken or being outed by his wife. I assume because he is a decent man, he would not be married to someone who would be go as low as ruinining his reputation, or mine. I suppose I assume she has some dignity above that. And if she does, what will it make her look like? I doubt she will be in a very comfortable position from the social point of view. I can very well imagine it must not be easy to be in her shoes. But, who has an easy life after all? I have my own challenges to face, she has hers. He is also the dad of a SN child, and it is not easy for him either.

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Iwantthisformyself

[BaileyB]

17 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I assume because he is a decent man, he would not be married to someone who would be go as low as ruinining his reputation, or mine. I suppose I assume she has some dignity above that.

You assume that this dishonest and unfaithful man would be married to a woman who has the dignity and integrity not to want share with the whole town that her husband has been having sex with another woman? 

In other words - you hold her to a higher standard then yourself or your affair partner? Neither of you treat her with dignity or respect. Neither of you are behaving with any kind of integrity. But, hat’s exactly what you expect from her? That’s some sense of entitlement. 

17 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

And if she does, what will it make her look like?

It will make her look like a woman who was done wrong by her husband. A woman who is parenting a child with special needs. And then, her husband cheats on her. No doubt, people would have empathy and support her as she is the victim here. 

You really have no empathy for this woman or insight into how this relationship will be perceived by others. That’s really sad. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by BaileyB

[basil67]

29 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I am not afraid of having my heart broken or being outed by his wife. I assume because he is a decent man, he would not be married to someone who would be go as low as ruinining his reputation, or mine.   

Is this like how because she's a decent woman, she would never marry someone who would go as low as cheating on her?    And how is telling the truth about people who hurt and cheated her a low act?   

Quote

I suppose I assume she has some dignity above that.

She she probably assumes that her husband has the dignity to not step out on her.  And that you have the dignity to not throw yourself at her husband.  

Quote

And if she does, what will it make her look like? I doubt she will be in a very comfortable position from the social point of view. 

Why on earth would she be uncomfortable?  She will have all her friends rallying around her, giving support.  That she's dedicated her life to supporting her SN son makes her all the more likely to be supported by all around. There is no shame in being cheated on and no shame in disclosing it.   If she ruins your reputations, it's because you brought it on yourselves.   

Edited August 9, 2021 by basil67

[BaileyB]

21 minutes ago, basil67 said:

If she ruins your reputations, it's because you brought it on yourselves.   

As usual basil, we think alike but you are so much more articulate…

Yes, there is no shame here for her - she is the victim here. Despite what you may think of this woman and their marriage, she is the wife who is parenting their special needs child while her husband is sneaking off to have sex with other women in hotel rooms… Who is person with character, integrity, and moral fortitude here? Who could not have empathy for the wife in this situation? 

Edited August 9, 2021 by BaileyB

[Seliana]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

You assume that this dishonest and unfaithful man would be married to a woman who has the dignity and integrity not to want share with the whole town that her husband has been having sex with another woman? 

In other words - you hold her to a higher standard then yourself or your affair partner? Neither of you treat her with dignity or respect. Neither of you are behaving with any kind of integrity. But, hat’s exactly what you expect from her? That’s some sense of entitlement. 

It will make her look like a woman who was done wrong by her husband. A woman who is parenting a child with special needs. And then, her husband cheats on her. No doubt, people would have empathy and support her as she is the victim here. 

You really have no empathy for this woman or insight into how this relationship will be perceived by others. That’s really sad. 

 

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

Is this like how because she's a decent woman, she would never marry someone who would go as low as cheating on her?    And how is telling the truth about people who hurt and cheated her a low act?   

She she probably assumes that her husband has the dignity to not step out on her.  And that you have the dignity to not throw yourself at her husband.  

Why on earth would she be uncomfortable?  She will have all her friends rallying around her, giving support.  That she's dedicated her life to supporting her SN son makes her all the more likely to be supported by all around. There is no shame in being cheated on and no shame in disclosing it.   If she ruins your reputations, it's because you brought it on yourselves.   

You ladies pretty much covered what I thought. Surely no-one can be this self-delusional? OP are you re-reading what you post? 

If you're so proud of what you're doing, go tell your daughter right now you're slumming it with a MM who's neglecting his SN kids for some low hanging fruit.

[ExpatInItaly]

5 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I assume because he is a decent man,

Yeah, your assumption is blatantly, glaringly incorrect. 

Your delusions will be your downfall in this. It's already started, in fact. 

[Taramere]

On 8/7/2021 at 6:30 PM, Iwantthisformyself said:

I have been in counseling for some months, and I have come to realise that I have always been the good girl, always putting my needs and wants after others. It has been super harmful for me. No more of that.

Given that you've come to these conclusions in the course of your counselling, it seems extra important discuss this married man situation with your counsellor.  Have you done so?  I suspect not, because I think an ethical counsellor would be concerned that you've taken this discovery (about always putting other people's needs first) and used it to rationalise entering into an affair which is not only going to hurt an innocent party (the MM's wife) but will almost certainly bring a great deal of drama into your life at a time when it sounds as though you're still trying to process various a number of traumatic losses you've experienced over the past while.

Let me say that my heart really does go out to you over those losses.  Both parents and a divorce.  It's not surprising that you're trying to chase happiness of some sort and using what you've learned about yourself in counselling as a rationale for doing it.  But again, you're going to hurt other people...and, almost certainly, yourself too in the long run.  I think the most valuable thing you can do right now is make proper use of the counselling that is available to you.  That counsellor will know far more about you and the journey you've been through over the past while than any of us do, and I think it would be very useful for you to examine and challenge your thinking process in this matter with the aid of a counsellor who you've built a relationship with over a period of time.  

In the event that you have already discussed this matter with your counsellor, may I ask what that disclosure led to within your counselling session?

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

. I cannot control what my ex does. he keeps coming to the house, checks my phone, wanted me to get a new private teacher for my daughter because her current one is a male and he thinks he is trying to seduce me, asks about my daily routine under the excuse of arranging who will use the car every day, etc.

You can control all of this with a conversation with your divorce attorney about court ordered child support and visitation.

You can also change the locks and install an appropriate home security system, now that you are legally divorced and do not share a residence.

Additionally you can also stop interacting inappropriately with your ex-husband.  For example how and why does he have access to your phone to check it?

Also why are you still sharing a car? 

Try to get appropriate boundaries with your child's father and adhere to scheduled court ordered visitation.

This lover may seem like a temporary escape from all the ongoing conflict with your ex-husband, but until that's sorted out, you'll still have stress.

[heartwhole2]

9 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

My ex obviously lacks self awareness, and is therefore dishonest. But MM is not dishonest with me at all. He feels abandoned and he shares that. He discusses me with his wife and he shares that. Thay have sex and he shares that. He has doubts and he shares that. I wish my 15 year long marriage had had a quarter of this "dishonesty". We would probably still be together.

It makes sense that someone whose problems are less outrageous than your ex's would seem attractive by comparison. But you are missing the point that honesty from a willfully self-deluded person is not something to settle for.

Your ex's behavior is atrocious. Yes, you share a child and a business, but he has no right to treat you that way. Just as MM is saying that he is powerless to stand up to his wife, you are putting yourself in the same position with your ex. Trying to get your power back by inserting yourself into another marriage with problems is foolish and shortsighted.

9 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I have looked at some other OW threads today, as you suggested. It is difficult form me to understand why many of them would be traumatised after an affair. When a relationship ends, you grieve it and you move on. I grieved my 15 year long marriage in a year, under quite traumatising circumstances, and I am back on my feet. And i was deceived, manipulated, gaslighted and made to feel really insignificant, believe me. I don´t think my suffering was less than any of theirs. But I am back on my feet now. I stayed strong for my kids' sake, It was hard on them too, esecially because they knew the reason why we were divorcing.

Friend, you are not back on your feet if a your ex, who appears to be a manipulative narcissist, is still making you feel so powerless that you are trying to regain your power by making another woman feel powerless. You are failing to have empathy for the very people you are asking for advice. I understand that your heart has been too wounded to have that capacity at the moment, but again, this is a moment where your confusion should make you go, "Hmmm, the evidence seems to go against my assumptions. What am I missing?"

 

9 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I don´t have so many people in my life. Never did. I am a reserved person. I only have one best friend who knows everything about this and is so happy I can fall in love again, and I have found someone who has fallen in live with me, something I did not believe possible. I have all her support. Both my parents have passed away, and I have a distant relationship with my only sister. My mom´s demise 2 years ago was particularly hard on me. She died after having suffered from a degenerative neurological problem, which was twice as traumatic because she was not herself any longer when she passed. I get to talk about his a lot with MM and it feels so nice to have someone to process this with.

Have you ever read a book like a psychological thriller where you slowly realize that the narrator is unreliable? They paint reality as one way but there are all these little tells along the way that make you realize the picture they're painting can't be true? TBH that's what it is like to read your posts. You go to great lengths to talk about how confident you are and how you are above dating apps and you are just an unconventional person, but this paragraph is much closer to the truth. Just like the other OW posters whom you can't admit you are like, you struggle with self-love and opening up to other people. And that, really, is why you are willing to enter a half relationship with someone inappropriate. You are afraid that this is as good as you can get.

9 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I assume because he is a decent man, he would not be married to someone who would be go as low as ruinining his reputation, or mine. I suppose I assume she has some dignity above that. And if she does, what will it make her look like? I doubt she will be in a very comfortable position from the social point of view.

Surely the idea of placing your reputation in the hands of a stranger you are knowingly harming is risky at best, no? You have mentioned several times your concern for both of your reputations and your strong desire not to be outed to your daughter. His wife doesn't have to put up a billboard blasting you for word to get out. All she has to do is tell friends for support; things like that don't tend to remain secrets.

9 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I do not believe the things that have happened between us are standard. Having someone open up their heart to you , and inspiring you to open up your heart to them is not standard. It is a miracle! It doesn´t happen everyday. I cannot happen with anyone. It takes two people with the same sensitivity and a genuine like for one another. 

I know. I know that you can't see it, and it's heart-breaking. No, you can't fall in love with every single person that you meet. But there are plenty of people you're compatible with out there. Instead of thinking, "Oh, I am chummy with one guy so he must be the only person who could ever love me," why don't you think, "Oh cool, see, I am attractive to other people. Take that crazy ex-H! Now I'm going to avoid this obvious land mine of a relationship with a married man and go find someone new to be chummy with."

This affair experiment is a distraction from the ongoing emotional and mental abuse by your ex-H. And look, you deserve healthy escapes. You need them; your life is stressful. But you are convincing yourself that rolling around in excrement is going to have you coming out smelling like roses. And the last thing you need while having to figure out to handle ex-H is drama from an entirely new direction.

[Crazelnut]

Wow, this level of self-delusion is impressive. And not in a good way. I can't add much to what others here have said, but I want to state this clearly:

This is an AFFAIR. And not even a special one. This is a typical, garden-variety affair between an intimacy-starved woman and a lying, cheating man. Period. Everyone who has ever been in an affair thought their relationship was special and unique. And they're not. 

Good luck with your imminent train wreck. 

[LynneVicious]

11 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

 

My ex obviously lacks self awareness, and is therefore dishonest. But MM is not dishonest with me at all. He feels abandoned and he shares that. He discusses me with his wife and he shares that. Thay have sex and he shares that. He has doubts and he shares that. I wish my 15 year long marriage had had a quarter of this "dishonesty". We would probably still be together.

What you’re failing to recognize is “dishonesty” is the root of all affairs. To everyone involved and innocent parties. 

11 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

 

I do not feel like I need to justify my behavior. My behaviour makes sense to me, and to him. Nobody else needs to understand it or agree with it. I came here looking for input that would perhaps make me think in directions that I had not considered, and it certainly has.

If everyone on earth gave into their selfish desires, imagine what a sh*tshow we’d have. It’s already bad enough. But ‘putting yourself first” just should never intrude on someone else’s life. His wife and kids WILL have their lives turned upside down all because this is what you want. 

[MilaVaneela]

15 minutes ago, LynneVicious said:

If everyone on earth gave into their selfish desires, imagine what a sh*tshow we’d have. It’s already bad enough. But ‘putting yourself first” just should never intrude on someone else’s life. His wife and kids WILL have their lives turned upside down all because this is what you want. 

Exactly. The OP’s mindset has swung to the extreme of “screw everyone else, I want what I want” and that is every bit as unhealthy as being a doormat. 
 

OP, do you feel you are entitled to another woman’s husband? Would you like it if say, someone waltzed into your home and claimed it as theirs because they’d always had to live in a cardboard box? Ridiculous, yes, but it’s the same principle. Or how about this: what if another woman who is also “putting herself first” decided she wanted this man and began putting the moves on him, just like you did? 

Quick edit: I noticed that the man’s version of  “trying to help” with his autistic child was suggesting diets and supplements. Special diets and supplements have not been shown scientifically or medically to help neurodivergent children and some “autism supplements” have been shown to cause serious nutrient imbalances in kids. If this man’s “helping” has been limited to what amounts to quackery, then no wonder his wife is overwhelmed. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by MilaVaneela
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[LynneVicious]

24 minutes ago, MilaVaneela said:

Quick edit: I noticed that the man’s version of  “trying to help” with his autistic child was suggesting diets and supplements. Special diets and supplements have not been shown scientifically or medically to help neurodivergent children and some “autism supplements” have been shown to cause serious nutrient imbalances in kids. If this man’s “helping” has been limited to what amounts to quackery, then no wonder his wife is overwhelmed. 

Actually on this note, while I don’t have any scientific evidence, I do have personal experience with my nephew. He was diagnosed autistic along with heavy metal poisoning around 3 years old. (On a side note, many autistic children do have digestive problems but that’s a whole nother can of worms. )

But after conventional medicine and treatment failed my nephew, his parents overhauled his diet - no wheat. No dairy. No sugar... And he healed. All of his heavy metals in his blood and brain swelling dissipated. He went from fully autistic to now just high functioning aspergers. You wouldn’t know anything was different about him. Whenever, in the past 14 years he changed his diet to include the aforementioned food, he would regress. It was quite amazing actually. 
 

Don’t mean to threadjack, but that is my experience. Onto the op, if one would apply her logic of ‘this is what I want. Be damned all those who get in my way,” just imagine! Op, please think about this. Seriously, it is such a sick way of thinking. 

[heartwhole2]

It's true that affairs are wrong because by definition they involve an unknowing third party whose agency is being denied. That person has not consented.

But for your situation OP, you don't even need this noble motivation because the question is, why would you want to consent to this situation? What you're really arguing, when we cut through all the double speak, is that your chances to find anyone as good or better than MM are zero. It's worth the costs (though you're also generally in denial about ever having to pay any) because it's so great.

And what I hope you can see is that there's a reason the OW on this board are struggling mightily with affairs, and that's because the parameters of an illicit relationship cause harm and distress. Now if MM said, hurray, what I have with you OP is so special that I am going to leave my cruel, domineering wife and ride off into the sunset with you . . . then OK, that's now a legitimate relationship. But any control you feel you have now in the situation is an illusion. All you have is the power to titillate an ineffectual man who feels sorry for himself. Everything hinges on a third party, BW . . . whether she finds out, exposes you, kicks him out or requires that he goes NC with you. 

I can already see what he will say when she finds out. OP came onto me, OP asked me to kiss her . . . Now you will take the role that BW is playing. You will be the domineering person who forced him to do things he didn't want to do. You will be a convenient scapegoat. And he will go along with it because, after all, how could he have any agency in his own life?

Edited August 9, 2021 by heartwhole2

[MilaVaneela]

12 minutes ago, LynneVicious said:

Actually on this note, while I don’t have any scientific evidence, I do have personal experience with my nephew. He was diagnosed autistic along with heavy metal poisoning around 3 years old. (On a side note, many autistic children do have digestive problems but that’s a whole nother can of worms. )

But after conventional medicine and treatment failed my nephew, his parents overhauled his diet - no wheat. No dairy. No sugar... And he healed. All of his heavy metals in his blood and brain swelling dissipated. He went from fully autistic to now just high functioning aspergers. You wouldn’t know anything was different about him. Whenever, in the past 14 years he changed his diet to include the aforementioned food, he would regress. It was quite amazing actually. 
 

Don’t mean to threadjack, but that is my experience. Onto the op, if one would apply her logic of ‘this is what I want. Be damned all those who get in my way,” just imagine! Op, please think about this. Seriously, it is such a sick way of thinking. 

This is interesting! I’m glad it worked well for your nephew. I do agree that sometimes the unconventional approach is what does the trick, and that diet and nutrition plays a big part in our overall well-being 😁
 

I guess the impression I got (although it’s hard to tell given the dismissive tone the OP seems to be taking when she speaks about the child in question) was that it seems like this man would rather find some magic bullet to cure this inconveniently special needs child so he tosses things like “here I found this diet on Google” or “this supplement was on Facebook we need to try it” at his wife rather than actually be involved in their child’s care.

 

I obviously don’t know this for a fact and it could be the OP’s tone that conveys it rather than it being so, but still… a man who would skip out on a kid that HE helped to bring into the world to go play with his coworker doesn’t seem like a very invested parent. 

As for the OP, her comments on “how would it make the wife look if she exposed this” show where her mindset is. Under normal circumstances,  it would make the wife look like an absolute saint, a caring mother whose selfish rat of a husband neglected her and their disabled child to fool around with the OP, who would be cast (rightly or wrongly) as a brazen hussy. Unfortunately, I say this as gently as possible, the OP seems to be willfully ignoring this.

[LynneVicious]

Milavaneela- I completely agree. I am wondering though, that perhaps due to her own betrayal with her husband, she now has this mindset? That she’s so jaded, she’s subconsciously hurting someone else because of it. Or she hasn’t dealt with the pain of the betrayal. And it’s manifested as this. 

Op, can you shed some light on this? Have you worked through your betrayal at the hands of your husband? How long has it been and have you done any therapy for it?