SumGuy Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 1 hour ago, cleverusername said: .....Is it possible to be friendly without being flirty or leading people on in regards cross-sex interactions, and does anyone else (male or female) run into this problem? Yours is a problem many would kill to have. Count yourself lucky and as others have said welcome to the world a lot of women live in. There are many strategies women have developed to deal with this. One for you may be, to not shut doors and let them down gently, s to say you have already met someone and are trying to give it a chance and see where it goes. You can explain you are naturally gregarious and didn't mean to lead them on if they got that impression. I've encountered the same problem, perhaps not as often as you. It is possible to have platonic female friends though, I have a couple but did not meet them randomly in public. 1
Johnjohnson2017 Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 Here's a simple solution: If you are not interested in them romantically, talk about your girlfriend i.e. "my GF loves crabcakes" or "My gf makes the best cheesecakes" etc. Introduce it into the conversation. You must be a pretty attractive guy if women are asking you out. That's not what an average Joe goes through. I think you like the attention so you subconsciously welcome it by maybe prolonging eye contact with the women thus making them think that you like them romantically. 2
AnnieB Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 Just now, cleverusername said: I would think 1-on-1 coffee with a woman I just met would be more than "friendly" but maybe not? I'm trying not to run the risk of anything developing Coffee is definitely a date, let's be clear on that lol. The only time it is not a date if it's clear that other people are invited, if it is a group thing.
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 8 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: True but his waffling unclear mixed signals after the fact is some indication that he's being equal unclear initially, thereby giving women the wrong impression. His whole approach -- after & before -- needs to be cleaned up & more deliberate regarding his expectations. So if a woman talks to a man and makes eye contact, asks questions, and seems interested, is it flirting? How do you make friends that are men?
Art.at.Heart Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: True but his waffling unclear mixed signals after the fact is some indication that he's being equal unclear initially, thereby giving women the wrong impression. His whole approach -- after & before -- needs to be cleaned up & more deliberate regarding his expectations. I definitely agree with you there. My initial thoughts are - if OP is giving us the accurate info - that he's either 1) attractive or 2) flirty. It's most likely a combination of both, though.
Alpacalia Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 Focus more on making and interacting with male friends and you won't have this problem. 1
AnnieB Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, cleverusername said: So if a woman talks to a man and makes eye contact, asks questions, and seems interested, is it flirting? How do you make friends that are men? We don't! It's not worth the hassle. That's why we have our girlfriends:) 1
d0nnivain Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, cleverusername said: So if a woman talks to a man and makes eye contact, asks questions, and seems interested, is it flirting? How do you make friends that are men? No it's talking. It doesn't cross into flirting until there are batting eyelashes, soft touches, hair twirling & lip moistening. Eye contact & asking Qs are simply polite conversation. Flirting implies innuendo & slight suggestiveness. Too many people confuse them but a good way for you to be clear is monitor your own body language by making sure not to lean in & never break the touch barrier unless you are truly flirting / interested. Most of the adult male friends I have made I met through work. We tend to keep conversations on work. I have become friends with some of DH's buddies but because I met them through him there is no confusion & I have no interaction with them outside of his presence generally. I did make a new male friend through a book club but outside of the presence of our spouses we only discuss the book & even then it's usually only at book club. I think we exchanged 3-4 emails through lockdowns just to check on the other's well being but that check included inquiry about the spouses & families. Edited July 6, 2021 by d0nnivain 1
poppyfields Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, cleverusername said: I would think 1-on-1 coffee with a woman I just met would be more than "friendly" but maybe not? I'm trying not to run the risk of anything developing If they hint or announce they want more, that is the time to make clear you want only a "friendship." In the meantime, stop assuming.
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, SumGuy said: Yours is a problem many would kill to have. Count yourself lucky and as others have said welcome to the world a lot of women live in. There are many strategies women have developed to deal with this. One for you may be, to not shut doors and let them down gently, s to say you have already met someone and are trying to give it a chance and see where it goes. You can explain you are naturally gregarious and didn't mean to lead them on if they got that impression. I've encountered the same problem, perhaps not as often as you. It is possible to have platonic female friends though, I have a couple but did not meet them randomly in public. Maybe that's the issue is the setting then? I heard that men make friends through interest and woman make them through experiences, so maybe I'm just in the wrong setting?
SumGuy Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 1 hour ago, cleverusername said: Yeah, like holy heck can men and women just be.... friends? Is being considerate and friendly all it takes now to attract someone? It's just totally uncomfortable to run into consistently...... Yah kind of a sad commentary on the male dating pool if the bar is so low. I'd say don't change yourself, just develop strategies to let them down softly. I know, that may make you even more attractive. I don't think the solution is to shoo them away or act cold. There are those who feel women and men can't just be friends, kind of self fulfilling prophecy and their world. You could try asking these women you are interested in being friends with to be just friends. I suspect it will work with a certain percentage, even if a small one but I suspect a larger percentage than if the genders were reversed. 1
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, Johnjohnson2017 said: Here's a simple solution: If you are not interested in them romantically, talk about your girlfriend i.e. "my GF loves crabcakes" or "My gf makes the best cheesecakes" etc. Introduce it into the conversation. You must be a pretty attractive guy if women are asking you out. That's not what an average Joe goes through. I think you like the attention so you subconsciously welcome it by maybe prolonging eye contact with the women thus making them think that you like them romantically. I do enjoy talking to people yes, but I make eye contact with everyone I talk too, it's just common courtesy. Good idea on the GF thing
d0nnivain Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 1 minute ago, SumGuy said: You could try asking these women you are interested in being friends with to be just friends. I Instead of "yeah maybe" saying "I'd be happy to get a coffee with you as a friend" would be clearer. 1
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 8 minutes ago, Alpaca said: Focus more on making and interacting with male friends and you won't have this problem. Yeah, I mean I have lots of friends that are dudes but it just sucks that I can meet a woman who is interesting and cool, and it has to always be something more. Like, you can be a cool person as a woman without me wanting to kiss you or have an emotional connection with
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, SumGuy said: Yah kind of a sad commentary on the male dating pool if the bar is so low. I'd say don't change yourself, just develop strategies to let them down softly. I know, that may make you even more attractive. I don't think the solution is to shoo them away or act cold. There are those who feel women and men can't just be friends, kind of self fulfilling prophecy and their world. You could try asking these women you are interested in being friends with to be just friends. I suspect it will work with a certain percentage, even if a small one but I suspect a larger percentage than if the genders were reversed. Yeah, good point. That feels so "grade school" though, I guess it's a societal thing and stigma that they can't be friends? Like what world or society do we live in where common decency shown towards the opposite sex is misconstrued to be romantic interest? 1
poppyfields Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, cleverusername said: I do enjoy talking to people yes, but I make eye contact with everyone I talk too, it's just common courtesy. Good idea on the GF thing I dont think the GF thing is necessary, why lie? That's so lame imo. Again you're assuming women you talk to want something "romantic" wtf clever. I don't give men my number unless they ask and I have an interest, whatever interest there is at that point, even if only a friendship, possibly leading to more or perhaps not. But some women do and that's ok too. Me thinks you need to relax more, stop assuming to know what a particular woman wants (unless again it's blatantly obvious). Exchanging numbers, expanding your social circle has loads of benefits so take advantage and make friends, since you said that is what you want - to make friends. YOU and you alone are in complete control of where it goes. Edited July 6, 2021 by poppyfields 1
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 10 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: No it's talking. It doesn't cross into flirting until there are batting eyelashes, soft touches, hair twirling & lick moistening. Eye contact & asking Qs are simply polite conversation. Flirting implies innuendo & slight suggestiveness. Too many people confuse them but a good way for you to be clear is monitor your own body language by making sure not to lean in & never break the touch barrier unless you are truly flirting / interested. Never initiate physical contact but don't really know about the leaning in, never really thought about it. It just sucks IMO when you think someone is cool and all of a sudden they want to make it weird and physical and romantic.....
SumGuy Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 Just now, cleverusername said: Maybe that's the issue is the setting then? I heard that men make friends through interest and woman make them through experiences, so maybe I'm just in the wrong setting? I'd agree on the setting. People seem to have expectations on setting and default meaning of social interaction there (of course men forget all the time a waitress being nice to you is part of the job). The neighbor is the toughest situation. I wish I had my advice back in the day. I always find those aphorisms about men and women interesting, perhaps a grain of truth, but just a grain. I believe friendships are formed by shared expereince, men and women. It is just when there is interest in a person as a possible friend, a man asking a man to do something together (anything even have a drink) it is presumed it is for platonic motives, while if the man asks a woman or vice versa, and their is no expereince with the other person in a platonic social context, the presumption can be it is non-platonic. 1
SumGuy Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, cleverusername said: Yeah, good point. That feels so "grade school" though, I guess it's a societal thing and stigma that they can't be friends? Like what world or society do we live in where common decency shown towards the opposite sex is misconstrued to be romantic interest? Can't disagree with you on that, nor are you alone in thinking that. I have been (am) a part of social circles where people can be decent to each other and it is not so misconstrued. 1
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, poppyfields said: I dont think the GF thing is necessary, why lie? That's so lame imo. Again you're assuming women you talk to want something "romantic" wtf clever. I don't give men my number unless they ask and I have an interest, whatever interest there is at that point, even even if only a friendship, possibly leading to more or perhaps not. But some women do and that's ok too. Me thinks you need to relax more, stop assuming to know what a particular woman wants (unless again it's blatantly obvious). Exchanging numbers, expanding your social circle has loads of benefits so take advantage and make friends. Tou are in complete control of where it goes. Fair point, I guess I would just hate to go down any path like that at all, you know? Like I'd hate to get to a point where it becomes a choice between platonic or romantic, and ruin anything. Do you stay friends with people who tried to sleep with you? I think what you are saying also gives credence to what @SumGuy was saying about 4 minutes ago, SumGuy said: a man asking a man to do something together (anything even have a drink) it is presumed it is for platonic motives, while if the man asks a woman or vice versa, and their is no expereince with the other person in a platonic social context, the presumption can be it is non-platonic. It may be a societal thing, and we just have different perspectives on this. I'm sure it's different in different parts of the world as well, where social interactions and what constitutes a "date" are different. In one place a man and woman 1-on-1 is a date, in others it's just platonic.
SumGuy Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, cleverusername said: Never initiate physical contact but don't really know about the leaning in, never really thought about it. It just sucks IMO when you think someone is cool and all of a sudden they want to make it weird and physical and romantic..... I'd say don't judge...they are just looking for love/connection; as long as they are cool about it. Some people are cool with just being friends after you say no. Them looking for more doesn't necessarily make them not cool in my book, it really, really depends though on how people go about it.
poppyfields Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 Frankly, and no disrespect but you are acting like a victim, at the complete mercy of aggresive overtly bold women. You are in control so if all you want is friends, then again if/when they express interest in wanting more, that is when you say no, you prefer just a friendship. Best to not make assumptions, that's called being arrogant and, well, full of yourself. Relax, enjoy, make friends, expand social circle. JMO.
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, SumGuy said: I'd agree on the setting. People seem to have expectations on setting and default meaning of social interaction there (of course men forget all the time a waitress being nice to you is part of the job). The neighbor is the toughest situation. I wish I had my advice back in the day. I always find those aphorisms about men and women interesting, perhaps a grain of truth, but just a grain. I believe friendships are formed by shared expereince, men and women. It is just when there is interest in a person as a possible friend, a man asking a man to do something together (anything even have a drink) it is presumed it is for platonic motives, while if the man asks a woman or vice versa, and their is no expereince with the other person in a platonic social context, the presumption can be it is non-platonic. Yeah, like even if I was to date you, it would be so extremely uncomfortable and awkward to see you ex every day. It would be even more uncomfortable shitting where I eat and playing the field with these women, and having them know about each other. Maybe there is some weird bet/ conspiracy going on between them?
SumGuy Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, cleverusername said: ...It may be a societal thing, and we just have different perspectives on this. I'm sure it's different in different parts of the world as well, where social interactions and what constitutes a "date" are different. In one place a man and woman 1-on-1 is a date, in others it's just platonic. It is all societal in my view. Completely. Just so ingrained from birth and tradition that people think otherwise. There are also societies who want women to be separated from men in almost all contexts, that is, go even further the other way. There are many ways you can go to see if friendship is an option and to let them down nicely. Some leave the door potentially open (only leave it open if it is in your mind a maybe but not a yes now) and others not but seeking just friendship. Don't think need to script much for you as suspect you are good at communicating, hence why you are in this predicament in the first place. 1
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