cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 Sorry for the confusing broad title, not really sure how to word it in as few words as possible. So here's the situation; Every time I talk to a woman and show friendly interest, be sociable, and respectful, women seem to take it as me flirting with them or trying to hit on them. It's gotten to the point that it feels awkward to be in some places because it happens so often. For example, I was at an apartment social hour and I have what I assume is a friendly 2 minute conversation with a woman, and she ends up giving me her number and tells me to call her. 30 minutes later a different woman pulls me aside and asks me to sit with her 1-on-1 for drinks and starts to flirt heavy with me and asks me to do something with her sometime, a few weeks ago a different and 3rd woman I just say "hello" too and have really superficial conversations with a few times a week in passing at the gym asks if I want to get coffee... The other day I was on a plane talking to a woman and having a friendly conversation and she invites me out with half-way through the flight when I was just trying to be friendly, and had to agree not to be rude, even though I ended up ghosting her because I wasn't interested.... and this is just a few examples of the many instances. It feels awkward to me seeing these women every day since we live in the same place, or places I go to often, and this has been happening with frequency. So much so, that since I have moved to this city, I have made exactly 0 platonic connections with women, because every time I try they make some sort of "move" and it makes it awkward. I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong, or how to show from the start I'm just being friendly and not flirty.... but it kinda sucks and I kinda feel bad for maybe sending the wrong signals. Or maybe everyone is just super horny after a year few years of COVID? Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.... TL;DR.....Is it possible to be friendly without being flirty or leading people on in regards cross-sex interactions, and does anyone else (male or female) run into this problem?
smackie9 Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) Now you know what it's like to be a woman. Unless you don't look them in the eye and not speak, there is nothing you can do. Edited July 6, 2021 by smackie9 3
AnnieB Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 Ah, yes, very familiar with this being a woman and out in public and especially at work. Lots of what basically amounts to harassment. I'm sorry this is happening, there isn't anything you can do about it short of being rude to them, and people take rejection poorly, so prepare for some kind of uncomfortable interaction, if you are going to enforce boundaries. Otherwise ghosting is accetable IMO, when you haven't even gone on one date. 1
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 17 minutes ago, smackie9 said: Now you know what it's like to be a woman. Unless you don't look them in the eye and not speak, there is nothing you can do. Yeah, total respect for women. Something something walk a mile in someone else's heels
smackie9 Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, cleverusername said: Yeah, total respect for women. Something something walk a mile in someone else's heels Ya something like that 1
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 18 minutes ago, AnnieB said: Ah, yes, very familiar with this being a woman and out in public and especially at work. Lots of what basically amounts to harassment. I'm sorry this is happening, there isn't anything you can do about it short of being rude to them, and people take rejection poorly, so prepare for some kind of uncomfortable interaction, if you are going to enforce boundaries. Otherwise ghosting is accetable IMO, when you haven't even gone on one date. Yeah, like holy heck can men and women just be.... friends? Is being considerate and friendly all it takes now to attract someone? It's just totally uncomfortable to run into consistently......
d0nnivain Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 You need better boundaries. You also need to learn to be clear. When the woman asked you to get coffee but you weren't interested, that was your cue to say "no thank you" right then & there. Instead you agreed because you thought it would "be rude not to". Then you blew her off & ghosted her. That was way more rude & outright mean than just saying no. Your problem isn't that women mistake you being friendly for flirting. Your problem is that you don't know how to say no thank you. You aren't drawing clear boundaries. You are making them think there is more to this & then you are cruel when you ghost them. When you are being friendly without other expectations, adjust your body language. Lean backwards, even if is just to keep your weight on your back foot. In a small place like a plane, cross your legs away from the person. Never stand with your shoulders square to the other person in a closed stance. Always keep it open to other people & not exclusive. When the woman asks to take things further, say no, politely & graciously. Be warm when you see the neighbors next but remain aloof.
AnnieB Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 12 minutes ago, cleverusername said: Yeah, like holy heck can men and women just be.... friends? Is being considerate and friendly all it takes now to attract someone? It's just totally uncomfortable to run into consistently...... I don't believe women and men can be friends, I used to believe that until I actually started paying attention and even the closest of my male friends, people I work with, whom I've known for years will be inappropriate. I used to disassociate often as a young woman so I didn't see how bad it was. Now that I am much more aware of my feelings I see it all the time. I figure with the expected equality and men waiting for women to initiate more, men are going to be subjected to this harassment more often going forward. 1
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 14 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: When the woman asked you to get coffee but you weren't interested, that was your cue to say "no thank you" right then & there. Instead you agreed because you thought it would "be rude not to". Then you blew her off & ghosted her. That was way more rude & outright mean than just saying no To clarify, the only one I actually ghosted was the one on the plane. I also haven't agreed to anything, I give a neutral response of "yeah, maybe". 15 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: Your problem isn't that women mistake you being friendly for flirting. Your problem is that you don't know how to say no thank you. You aren't drawing clear boundaries. You are making them think there is more to this & then you are cruel when you ghost them. I don't understand how being friendly makes it think there is "more to this"? Is asking questions and looking someone in the eye flirting now? If so, have I been flirting with every guy and girl I meet? I'm just trying to talk 17 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: When you are being friendly without other expectations, adjust your body language. Lean backwards, even if is just to keep your weight on your back foot. In a small place like a plane, cross your legs away from the person. Never stand with your shoulders square to the other person in a closed stance. Always keep it open to other people & not exclusive. When the woman asks to take things further, say no, politely & graciously. Be warm when you see the neighbors next but remain aloof. I can barely remember to bring my house key when I leave let alone do all this body language stuff lol
d0nnivain Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, cleverusername said: To clarify, the only one I actually ghosted was the one on the plane. I also haven't agreed to anything, I give a neutral response of "yeah, maybe". Stop saying that. Say "No" when you mean no. "Yeah maybe" indicates some interest on your part. If you have no interest do not give false hope. I'm not asking you to become a body language expert but since you encounter the problem of what you characterize as women mistaking your friendliness for flirting, as the common denominator you have to recognize your part in this. Think about what you may be doing to create this wrong impression & change that behavior. One easy way will be to be mindful of your body language. Literally lean back instead of leaning in. Edited July 6, 2021 by d0nnivain
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, AnnieB said: I don't believe women and men can be friends, I used to believe that until I actually started paying attention and even the closest of my male friends, people I work with, whom I've known for years will be inappropriate. I used to disassociate often as a young woman so I didn't see how bad it was. Now that I am much more aware of my feelings I see it all the time. I figure with the expected equality and men waiting for women to initiate more, men are going to be subjected to this harassment more often going forward. That's what I've been thinking lately, like is this what it's like to be a woman? Everyone sees you as a potential romantic partner? Always having to think about the signals you're putting off or what the other person's thoughts are? 1
d0nnivain Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 Men & women can absolutely be friends. Even if that initial "would I sleep with them?" happens most people don't act on it. If someone crosses a line, you tell them straight up that their conduct is unwelcome / inappropriate & then you move along. Most people will go back in the box you have assigned to them -- friend -- & happily stay there if you are clear.
AnnieB Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, cleverusername said: That's what I've been thinking lately, like is this what it's like to be a woman? Everyone sees you as a potential romantic partner? Always having to think about the signals you're putting off or what the other person's thoughts are? You would think so, but that's not even it:) If you agree to see them they will still ghost you, lol. It's often an ego trip for men.They are actually not truly interested I wonder if it will be the same with women.
Wiseman2 Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 11 minutes ago, cleverusername said: I give a neutral response of "yeah, maybe". Ok, that's not "neutral". All you can do is pull back and be a bit more formal.
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 8 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: Stop saying that. Say "No" when you mean no. "Yeah maybe" indicates some interest on your part. If you have no interest do not give false hope. I'm not asking you to become a body language expert but since you encounter the problem of what you characterize as women mistaking your friendliness for flirting, as the common denominator you have to recognize your part in this. Think about what you may be doing to create this wrong impression & change that behavior. One easy way will be to be mindful of your body language. Literally lean back instead of leaning in. Noted on the body language part. But saying "no" certainly seems worse than a neutral "yeah, maybe" and not following up on it. Especially if I see these women every day, saying no would be a lot more awkward and rude I would think
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Ok, that's not "neutral". All you can do is pull back and be a bit more formal. I mean, it's not like I follow through with anything, I just never bring it up again. Is there a better way to go about it than flat out "no"? I feel like that would just be more awkward if I see them every day. Just start saying I have a girlfriend? F*** man, I just want to be able to have a conversation and make friends.
Wiseman2 Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, cleverusername said: Just start saying I have a girlfriend? Do you have a GF? Surly you're bringing up that you're unattached in all these "friendly" conversations otherwise they would not be handing out numbers like candy. Seems like you enjoy the attention, that's why you give string along answers and converse in a flirty come-on style. Edited July 6, 2021 by Wiseman2
d0nnivain Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 1 minute ago, cleverusername said: Noted on the body language part. But saying "no" certainly seems worse than a neutral "yeah, maybe" and not following up on it. Especially if I see these women every day, saying no would be a lot more awkward and rude I would think It's not. Ghosting & false hope are cruel. They will keep trying & you will leave them bewildered when your words don't match your deeds. Say something along the lines of "that was so sweet but no thank you." In short let them down gently & allow them to keep their dignity. Be flattered by the ask but clear that the answer is no. There is truth in the saying "It's cruel to be kind" By saying "yeah maybe" you are giving false hope which is wayyyyyyy worse. People value integrity. Being true to yourself & clear in your beliefs & desires is so much better than the game playing you are attempting. Saying no but still saying hello & you not acting all awkward & weird, you genuinely being friendly & kind, will quickly negate any hard feelings over the expressed desire to not date. You don't have to elaborate about why you don't want to date them. As simple no thank you is enough.
AnnieB Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, cleverusername said: I mean, it's not like I follow through with anything, I just never bring it up again. Is there a better way to go about it than flat out "no"? I feel like that would just be more awkward if I see them every day. Just start saying I have a girlfriend? F*** man, I just want to be able to have a conversation and make friends. Yes, men used to respect that more, if you said you had a boyfriend they would back off. If you said no thanks, they would get upset. They respected other imaginary men more than they respected the women. I used to wear an engagement ring all the time at work (working retail). It helped, but then you would get real sleezeballs that didn't care hit on you Anyway, I think you got this, just say no thanks, and see what happens! 1
Art.at.Heart Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 45 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: Your problem isn't that women mistake you being friendly for flirting. Your problem is that you don't know how to say no thank you. You aren't drawing clear boundaries. You are making them think there is more to this & then you are cruel when you ghost them. That's after the fact, though. It appears that OP's issue is that he wants to have friendly interactions with women that don't give them the impression that he wants to go out in the first place. 1
poppyfields Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, cleverusername said: I just want to be able to have a conversation and make friends. Then do just that, become friends. Not quite sure why you automatically jump to they want something "romantic." The first girl, after chatting a bit, suggested coffee and gave you her number. So why not grab a coffee and become friends? It doesn't have to be more than that unless you both want it, so maybe stop assuming you know what they want? As in something "romantic"? They may just want to be friends too, and see where that goes, if anywhere at all. Unless the woman is so bold and blatant that she sexually propositions you right then and there (which happens, I've seen it!), then become friends, I dont see the huge deal here. You said that's what you want, did you not? Well, that's what friends do, they meet for coffee, or for a drink. Something casual. It doesn't have to be a "romantic date." If more develops after that, great enjoy! If not, which is more likely, then remain friends, and define what that means for yourselves. Including FWB if you're both okay with that. Anything goes. EDIT: If a woman gives you her number and you choose to not call, that is not ghosting! Nothing to feel guilty about. I've had problems when saying no to men right then and there, one guy threw a fit and began yelling at me in a parking lot! So a polite, "thanks, sure maybe," is just fine imo. Edited July 6, 2021 by poppyfields 1
d0nnivain Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 Just now, Art.at.Heart said: That's after the fact, though. It appears that OP's issue is that he wants to have friendly interactions with women that don't give them the impression that he wants to go out in the first place. True but his waffling unclear mixed signals after the fact is some indication that he's being equal unclear initially, thereby giving women the wrong impression. His whole approach -- after & before -- needs to be cleaned up & more deliberate regarding his expectations.
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, poppyfields said: Then do just, become friends. Not quite sure why you automatically jump to they want something "romantic." The first girl, after chatting a bit, suggested coffee and gave you her number. So why not grab a coffee and become friends? It doesn't have to be more than that unless you both want it, so maybe stop assuming you know what they want? As in something "romantic"? They may just want to be friends too, and see where that goes, if anywhere at all. Unless the woman is so bold and blatant that she sexually propositions you right then and there (which happens, I've seen it!), then become friends, I dont see the huge deal here. You said that's what you want, did you not? Well, that's what friends do, they meet for coffee, or for a drink. Something casual. It doesn't have to be a "date." If more develops after that, great enjoy. If not, which is more likely, then remain friends, and define what that means for yourselves. I would think 1-on-1 coffee with a woman I just met would be more than "friendly" but maybe not? I'm trying not to run the risk of anything developing
Author cleverusername Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 17 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Seems like you enjoy the attention, that's why you give string along answers and converse in a flirty come-on style. I mean, I enjoy talking to people yes. I don't enjoy seeing the women I had to reject who were otherwise cool people every day.
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