How do you feel months to years after the end of your affair?

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, SSE said:

But isn't that how most relationships start? You find eachother funny and attractive?

Sure, those things are very attractive when you meet a man. But then, there is a character assessment that needs to happen when choosing a possible life partner. Is he honest, loyal, trustworthy. No. Is he kind to you and does he treat you well. No. Does he respect you? No. Is he faithful to you. No. 

This is the point where my attraction dies away… A man can be handsome and smart and funny but if he doesn’t have these core character traits - he’s not a man that I want in my life. 

1 hour ago, SSE said:

I know I wanted to put MM needs before my own, I even did for some time.

That was the problem. You had no boundaries and gave too much - to your own detriment. You gave and he took - that’s not love. That’s adoration. Infatuation. Love is trust, respect, kindness, compassion. Have you not learned this from your boyfriend? Unfortunately, you took the attention and physical affection he offered and equated that for love and validation. It’s hard to re-wire that now. 

Keep working with your therapist. I really do think you are making progress, and you should be really proud of the work you have done! You have come far… and I believe you will get there. Personally, I would focus on your issues with self esteem because a woman who has a healthy self esteem would never have invited this man into her life. And, continue to learn about what makes a healthy relationship a healthy relationship. It won’t feel like the affair - if it does, that means you are involved in another toxic and unhealthy relationship. And, you don’t want that… We don’t want that for you. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

 

I hope you read Bittersweetie’s comment. 

[NYAG]

22 hours ago, BaileyB said:

No, this isn’t love. At this point, it seems to be an obsessive thought loop that she plays in her mind again, and again… 

It's familiarity. Comfort in something that's known and predictable no matter how bad it is.

[Beentheretoooften]

On 7/2/2021 at 9:34 AM, stillafool said:

On 7/1/2021 at 3:45 AM, SSE said:

 

I think you need to break up with yor bf since you admit to having lingering feelings for MM that are sabotaging your relationship.  You aren't ready yet. 

I disagree. Monkey branch actually can work successfully.  Well, at least up to engagement.  I know a case it did.  You can be ready as you manage your way through it.   You never know 

[elaine567]

You have a choice to make.
You can decide to spend weeks months years hankering after this MM.
Allowing your "lingering thoughts" to ruin every good thing you find.
Playing the victim and pining away for someone you can't have.
Sacrificing yourself on the altar of this guy... a guy who doesn't give a damn about you.
Yes, you can spend your life dreaming of a world that doesn't and will never exist...
OR
You can choose to forget him... choose life, choose happiness.

[SSE]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Especially Elaine, thank you for making me cry on a Sunday morning 😉 

You know why I struggle with the fact that MM can be a good man if he cares/loves you? Because I've experienced such an example in my direct environment. My brother's best friend met some girl. He wasn't that invested in the relationship and he never wanted to take the relationship to the next level however she wanted that very much. He never said she was a bad girl or anything like that, but he wasn't that invested. He did like her company (and the sex I assume). They eventually broke up and now he's with a girl he claims to love very much. When I saw them together, he acted so differently than when he was around his ex-GF. He seemed like a prince towards the new GF. I guess because now he's very much invested and doesn't want to lose the new girl. 

That's why I think MM can be a great guy, at least when he cares about you. I've seen it myself with my brother's best friend. Maybe a new AP will come along for MM, and maybe he will love her and will divorce for her. Who knows, he will also treat her like a prince, not making mean comments and so on. I do find it very difficult to see him in a bad light. I do have difficulty seeing anyone in a bad light, always giving them benefit of the doubt. It is however a major blow to my ego when I think of MM in that way. Does effect my feeling of not being worthy. I do have the tendency to first think badly about myself instead of thinking the other person isn't a decent person. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[BaileyB]

So, Elaine has just made a lovely post encouraging you to chose happiness - to focus on yourself and your own happiness rather than pining away for someone you don’t have and a world that doesn’t exist and you come back with a post all about why you think if you had been a different/better person, he would have chosen you. 

Respectfully, your two examples could not be more different and the example you give of your brother’s friend happens all the time.  Consider your own boyfriend, seems like a very nice guy but you are luke warm to him. If another man came along that you were more attracted to, you would be more invested. Does that happen because he is a better human or just because for whatever reason, you have a stronger attraction/interest? And, how does this compare to your MM who treated you very poorly. Did your brother’s friend behave abusively toward his first girlfriend and then change his character to be not abusive toward the second girlfriend? 

Edited July 4, 2021 by BaileyB

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, SSE said:

You know why I struggle with the fact that MM can be a good man if he cares/loves you?

Unfortunately I disagree that cheaters are "good men".

Edited July 4, 2021 by Wiseman2

[SSE]

No indeed. There were guys when I was dating that were great company, but I just didn't feel it. Never thought they weren't good enough for me, there was just some feeling missing. I think this could be the case with MM, with the exception that he used my feelings to get sex which caused me a lot of pain. I never did such things with the guys I was dating. If I wasn't interested, I politely told them and declined their offer to stay friends because I didn't want them to give them false hope (for a possible relationship or sex).  

I don't know how my brother's best friend acted towards his ex-GF. I don't know if he cheated on her with his new GF, if he was mean towards her and so on. I don't know. It doesn't seem likely because I've always known him as a nice guy, but people can act differently in public than when they are alone, so who knows? And you never know how they act in certain situations. I mean, my friends were also shocked I had a thing with a MM. I also never thought I would do that, but my feelings (and hormones) made me act differently. 

And I also think my analogy with my brother's best friend isn't all wrong. I mean, I've read it here on LS several times. MM eventually leaves the wife, but not for the OW but for an OOW who he seems to be madly in love with. Or MM eventually divorces and rides off into the sunset with some else, not the OW. There's a recent thread where some poster has warned the OP that this could happen. The MM in that case does treat the OW poorly, but does that automatically mean he would also treat the OOW poorly? It seems that the MM don't treat the OOW poorly because they are more invested. Based on their feelings, indeed not because the OOW is better than the OW (although it can feel like that for her). 

However, does that mean their character has changed? I don't know. I try to change the way I think and feel and I notice this is something that takes time and isn't easy. You must want to change and even then it's difficult to do so. So would the MM in my case stop making hurtful jokes? Would he stop having the need to feel superior? Would he suddenly be able to have deep and meaningful conversations with an OOW? Would he never cheat on her? No idea. 

And at the end, I guess it doesn't even matter that I break my head about this stuff. MM didn't choose me, is not invested in me except for getting some easy sex and based on what I've read on LS will probably never choose me even if the divorce miracle would happen. I know that and I try to accept that. I guess that reflecting over his character is some way I use to tell myself that I did make the right choise to stop having contact with him. That he isn't a good man towards me and never will be. That I will always be plan B (or plan whatever) and that will never change. But hearing about my brother's best friend and his new GF made me wonder if MM would/can be a good guy towards someone new, someone he's likes more. Based also on what I've read on LS, I do think that's possible. And that stings. 

I do realize it's important to keep working on the way I see myself. That I stop seeing this experience and the way I've been treated and the way he will possible treat some other girl as a reflection of my worth. It does say more about him, treating me with little respect knowing I loved him. However, he does respect my request of leaving me alone. I think (hope) I never treated one of the guys I dated like that. I'm glad my BF knows about my lingering feelings, so that's now in the open. 

[donnaLV]

SSE

Im serbian,so excuse me for my grammar mistakes

Your MM i see made hurtfull jokes of you being single during the whole affair. And he take that as some "fact" you are not desirable as a woman? It seems you was too nice to him. You could simple say to him back then: "your wishfull thinking i was seeing only you"..or to be blunt im not for exclusivity in affair.

Meaning if you are single woman and find yourself in affair,DO date and give chance to other men that attracts you.. Is really insane to be "loyal" to MM. Don't take it too seriously Especially in your case where he mocked your singledoom. You could tell him "hun,your wife was single too before she had to settle for you"...to tease him back etc.. seriously he makes some really poor jokes,im sure he didn't mocked his wife being single when he dated her,or how he could marry single her then? What an "logic!"

He should be one to thank his lucky start single lady even payed him any attention and not to so many desirable single men,as he is one with the "baggage" and issues not you..

ok,now is late,but never allow cheater and liar to make you less off. He is not a catch,but tried to potray himself as one.

And honestly only you can make yourself feel that way,you can accept his jokes as facts or reject them. What you did? Accepted his words as some ulitmate "truth" just because he wasn't into you the way you wanted. But same can be said for our men we women rejected in past. Do those men need to feel less as a man because of it?

Nope..want to say,someone not being into you totally is NOT reflection of your desirability as a woman. He mocked you,some other men,even married man would see you as most desirable woman he met. So no need to focus on what ONE man only told you.

You said this: "It seems that the MM don't treat the OOW poorly because they are more invested. Based on their feelings, indeed not because the OOW is better than the OW (although it can feel like that for her)."

It is true,but only to an extent. You given also example of your brother. MM will truly fall for one woman,and treat like s*** other. It does really depend on feelings. BUT.. since he is the type who make such insults to you,and showed how shallow he is, be sure no matter even if found other woman,no matter how strongly he treats her better or love her,even divorce for her..he WILL at one point insult her too..because its HIS charachter.

He will aslo likely cheat on her as well.. because those type of man you described are not really respecting women,they are more selfish,selfcentered,so he would became with time same jerk to any woman..

Men who truly love women,men who are truly confident in themselfs will never mock woman's singledoom,laughing at her making a baby with anyone just to have it etc..like he did to you.

That man screams to me that he is full of insecurities.. wish he met me,i would show him what single woman can do to his fragile ego...he would be cornered like a rat :))) You still too into what he thinks of you.

You felt rejected ,so you need validation and need to "prove" something to him because he didn't felt same. He wont care,that's the thing. And not because something is wrong with you,but would you care what some man you didn't liked enough had to prove to you? No.

See..you are battling non existent battle with him. Do not allow thoughts "he will feel more maybe for other and treat her nice" consume you..who cares? is a life,keep in mind that man,and i quess he is serial cheat likely also had women who rejected him,that he pinned after in past..so he was,will be in same place you are now in..

Is not really important he didn't felt for you,but he may for other one. Im not trying to be pessimist,but most affairs don't turn into happy marriage you talked off,plus even if he met hypotetically his dream other woman,is likely just secrecy and just honeymoon phase.. and they always end.

Most people long for their ex..simple because they had enough time to build fantasy "ah,that one that got awyay".. in reality it would settle into normal routine rl if they ended together.. no any daydreaming anymore

Most rl's,affair,marriage turn to some routine and boredoom with time,is normal to happen,so do not think you ex MM will forever feel lust and love for some new woman. The point is,he sound disrespectufll in general,and those type of men will usually show same traits to new women as well,even if they have feelings for them..

And lastly,let say even if find new one he will love and change his ways? Who cares? He didn't felt same for you,and you must accept that fact. Same way you didn't maybe felt strongly for men who felt for you. See now? Is a life,we can not force to feel for others,and make them feel for us,is really pontless..

Is really pointless you as unique woman,allowed ONE MM to dictate your own worth as a woman. Especially from a man who is himself insecure and hate himself,because truly confident men do not treat women like you decribed.

Hey he mocked your single status and called you "depserate" for baby? Do you see any masculine,manly trait in such man? I don't. I see man who probably need to insult a woman to make his insecurities less.

That man sure have some issues He is not that dream bad guy,who rejected you,and you need to prove yourself to him. No,truly "bad guys" are not insecure,they do not insult women and feed their ego from it,they do not treat one women like trash,other nice..

"Bad" guys are men who don't put up with same s*** you was putting up with. I understand you felt bad after your experience with him,but you are unique,desirable woman already.. do not allow no man to dictate your selfworth as a woman..

If you must,be sure there are men who are succssefull too (as you commented his power) and who would find you desirable.. But believe me,it don't really matter.. life is so much more then who fallen for us or not.. Stay well,mourn this all on here,type your thoughts..it will be better with time

Life is too short to dwell on one's man opinion of you.. your mother didn't given birth to her daughter to waste it on what MM thinks of her desirabiltiy as a woman.. That man is already married,you better also find your own happines in meantime and be independent..

He is just human with so many imperfection like all of us,do not think you had to prove to him nothing.. Stay strong

Edited July 5, 2021 by Jollaanda

[torn_heart]

On 5/22/2021 at 10:46 AM, Syre17 said:

I suppose I can offer some insight as I was married, as was my AP, but then I became the single OM as I left my W for her, my AP. In the end, my AP didn’t end up leaving her H…well, she “left” him once while we were “together” and ended up going back to him, but I digress… 

Initially, as a then “single” OM, still seeing her, I felt very conflicted. Part of me wanted to hang in there for her (which was nonsense looking back) but part of me also began thinking and questioning why I was even with her. I began dating and for a while, and felt like I compared everyone to her, which was also nonsense, as our relationship was a house of cards. I think I also sabotaged some relationships because every time my “former” AP would reach out, I’d put whomever I was dating on the back burner. It was not at all a good cycle or way to go about things…obviously. 

Anyway, long story short, I’m not dating anyone and haven’t for a while. Yes, my former AP has reached out a few times over the past couple of years, but I don’t engage her. I don’t even miss her anymore and for some time now, I’ve thought if she showed up on my door today, saying she’d finally left her H, I’d tell her no thanks. It was a long, tough and difficult road and I’ve gotten to a place where I actually love my independence (with no co-dependence) and my life, just flying solo and enjoying my time with family, friends and my hobbies, 

How long took you to divorce while you were with her? 

[Syre17]

57 minutes ago, torn_heart said:

How long took you to divorce while you were with her? 

@torn_heart My AP and I were seeing each other for several years. Once D day happened, I literally moved out that night and that was that…never went back, as is a common narrative on here with people bouncing back and forth. As far as the divorce, it didn’t take long, maybe 9 months… 

[torn_heart]

12 minutes ago, Syre17 said:

@torn_heart My AP and I were seeing each other for several years. Once D day happened, I literally moved out that night and that was that…never went back, as is a common narrative on here with people bouncing back and forth. As far as the divorce, it didn’t take long, maybe 9 months… 

Wow. I just have been battling a lot in my case if you can read my thread please. It has been a little over 2 months of pure torture, getting better, but still miss my OW. 

[Daisydooks]

On 6/30/2021 at 9:53 AM, SSE said:

I don’t know what’s wrong with me 😢

I have a BF now. He treats me much better than MM ever did. However, my BF has a lower libido and when he doesn’t initiate sex I get annoyed. With MM I never had to initiate, with my BF I almost always have to initiate and it bothers me. It makes me feel less desirable. I communicate about the way I feel, but it doesn’t change much. And then I think of MM. That I wouldn’t have this situation with him. I begin to miss him and start to doubt my relationship.

What should I do? Search for a new BF with a higher libido? Will that make me feel better and stop comparing with MM? Or search for a man where I feel the same way as I did with MM? Can I find that? I know MM didn’t want me. Trust me, I tell myself all the time I was nothing more than a side piece. I know he doesn’t think of me and definitely is not missing me. I will not contact him again because I know a circle of pain will restart. I don’t want that anymore.  

But I did love him. Cannot explain it rationally, it’s a feeling I have towards him. Most of the time he wasn’t respectful towards me, but even now, I still don’t feel any anger towards him. Only pain and sadness. And also that feeling of love, even after 1 year. That feeling sabotages me so much and I want it gone. I don’t want to love him anymore. So is staying with my BF or even searching for a new lover a good idea while still having that feeling? IDK. Will/can that feeling ever go away? IDK. 

I also feel some urge to win from him (MM). You maybe will call me crazy now, but MM always bragged about his money and made hurtful jokes about the fact I remained single during the affair. I cannot win from him in the money category, but I always thought I could mean something in the relationship category as in also having a good, healthy relationship and family in the future. But I can’t, even though I have a normal relationship now, I still think of MM. It makes me think that he will always have a better life than me. My BF has no higher education, has a simple job, doesn’t earn that much and has dyslexia. If MM knew, I’m quite sure he would feel so much better because he has more money and has no problems with reading or writing. MM also made some hurtful comments about his wife’s ex-BF who also was some simple guy. I know it sounds crazy that I want to win from MM, but he made me feel worthless with his actions and comments and actually still does. And at the same time, I still feel some kind of love for that same person. How strange is that?

Maybe the best way to win from him, is to never have contact again, leave this experience behind me and live a good life. But I can’t seem to do that. I want to move forward, I really do. I want to have a good healthy relationship and hopefully a family of my own someday. I want to think and feel healthy. I really do. I want MM gone. He’s already gone from my phone, but now he also needs to be gone in my mind. But he isn’t and I don’t know how I can achieve that. Time alone doesn’t seem to help me. Therapy doesn't seem to work either. I feel very much stuck.

Sounds like you still need to figure out who you are single. Youre constantly and consistently looking for validation in all the wrong places

Time and being alone with just yourself to validate you will help. Be patient and kind to yourself. It doesnt sound like your bf is a good fit. It just sounds like he was there and convenient

[torn_heart]

8 minutes ago, BourneWicked said:

Torn_heart that's a good call. I'm normally pretty level but in the affair I was crazy. I think it brings out the most basic, primal, biological reactions. Because it's reproduction-related, survival of the species. Survival of the self (because these stories can and do take a life threatening turn at times, and create dangerous situations at home). 

In reality, the danger is self created and our rational selves can say "there isn't just this one person that we need to chase emotional highs and lows with/plenty of fish/etc." 

Exactly, something my ex-OW told me "life isn't complicated you are doing it" . Here is the unpopular part. I'm a WS, I've been with my GF for 8.5 years, she is totally anchored in my life. When my ex-OW wanted to go exclusive my whole mind fell apart, I was (am) addicted to her but the thought of changing my whole dynamic has been just terrible. 

I told my ex-OW that I loved her and she also went nuts because of it and start pushing me to finish everything, at some very toxic points.

I'm a mathematician, so in general you might think I'm calm and rational, but these have been the most difficult 3 months in my life (I'm 38) , and after all this time still I can't think straight, I still miss her a lot, I feel like an addict (and I've never being one, at least to a substance). So believe, I understand completely the OP, even from a MM perspective.

 

 

[BourneWicked]

It's nice to hear some MM feel as deeply, since it's mostly OW on here. You probably made the right choice (though I guess only you can know if that's the case or not). Who cares if it's unpopular; it's your life. And it was the same for me I'd never "fallen in love" this way before, never been so addicted or felt so strongly. A lot is the affair, but a lot also had to do with someone who connected in ways I'm not capable of with most people. And that's hard, that lie of a friendship, a confidante, has been the hardest part to give up.

I'm also doing a lot of missing still. I've had a ton of dreams about him (but hey, I'd dream about running when it had been a long time since I'd gotten a runner's high) 

When I do think of him, it usually ends on a downward note, remembering the times I didn't trust him, he hurt my feelings, or couldn't make time for me. I just wish the time and the forgetting could go quicker. I don't want to be that addict ever again. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

On 6/30/2021 at 9:53 AM, SSE said:

I don’t know what’s wrong with me 😢

I have a BF now. He treats me much better than MM ever did. However, my BF has a lower libido and when he doesn’t initiate sex I get annoyed. With MM I never had to initiate, with my BF I almost always have to initiate and it bothers me. It makes me feel less desirable. I communicate about the way I feel, but it doesn’t change much. And then I think of MM. That I wouldn’t have this situation with him. I begin to miss him and start to doubt my relationship.

What should I do? Search for a new BF with a higher libido? Will that make me feel better and stop comparing with MM? Or search for a man where I feel the same way as I did with MM? Can I find that? I know MM didn’t want me. Trust me, I tell myself all the time I was nothing more than a side piece. I know he doesn’t think of me and definitely is not missing me. I will not contact him again because I know a circle of pain will restart. I don’t want that anymore.  

But I did love him. Cannot explain it rationally, it’s a feeling I have towards him. Most of the time he wasn’t respectful towards me, but even now, I still don’t feel any anger towards him. Only pain and sadness. And also that feeling of love, even after 1 year. That feeling sabotages me so much and I want it gone. I don’t want to love him anymore. So is staying with my BF or even searching for a new lover a good idea while still having that feeling? IDK. Will/can that feeling ever go away? IDK. 

I also feel some urge to win from him (MM). You maybe will call me crazy now, but MM always bragged about his money and made hurtful jokes about the fact I remained single during the affair. I cannot win from him in the money category, but I always thought I could mean something in the relationship category as in also having a good, healthy relationship and family in the future. But I can’t, even though I have a normal relationship now, I still think of MM. It makes me think that he will always have a better life than me. My BF has no higher education, has a simple job, doesn’t earn that much and has dyslexia. If MM knew, I’m quite sure he would feel so much better because he has more money and has no problems with reading or writing. MM also made some hurtful comments about his wife’s ex-BF who also was some simple guy. I know it sounds crazy that I want to win from MM, but he made me feel worthless with his actions and comments and actually still does. And at the same time, I still feel some kind of love for that same person. How strange is that?

Maybe the best way to win from him, is to never have contact again, leave this experience behind me and live a good life. But I can’t seem to do that. I want to move forward, I really do. I want to have a good healthy relationship and hopefully a family of my own someday. I want to think and feel healthy. I really do. I want MM gone. He’s already gone from my phone, but now he also needs to be gone in my mind. But he isn’t and I don’t know how I can achieve that. Time alone doesn’t seem to help me. Therapy doesn't seem to work either. I feel very much stuck.

I haven't read the thread past this point so don't know if anything has changed for you since, but I think I can answer the question of you wanting to win from MM.

I think it basically comes down to validation. You are still trying to prove to yourself (and him) that you are good enough.  This is where you should focus your healing work imo. You'll have to work on learning to validate yourself. It is self-esteem work basically.  Are you in therapy? It's a good place to work on this. 

Aside, I get the sense that your current boyfriend doesn't excite you much. Maybe he is a placeholder for you until you can fully get past MM? I also noticed you speak of MM in more of a present tense than past, like MM instead of xMM..Don't know if there is significance to that, but I think you are still hooked on MM mainly because of the validation issue. 

[SSE]

I have some good days where I don’t think that much about it because I'm busy renovating my house, but for the last week I have some very bad days. I have dreams about the MM and his wife. Dreams where they seem to be very happy which makes me wake up sad. Another reminder of all the lies that have been told . Makes me feel a raw pain in my heart which lasts the entire day.

[ ] 

I still struggle a lot with feelings of not being good enough. I still compare myself to his wife. She wins in every aspect. I try not to dwell on those thoughts and the emotions that follow, but it’s not easy. I also struggle with the idea that the MM must have the perfect life. I think that’s because he always bragged about his money and made mean comments towards me because I was single and had no family, because I didn’t earn much and so on. Those comments still have an effect on me. 

I know rationally that not being picked by the MM hasn’t much to do with my worth as a person. I cannot control his feelings. There are children and a lot of money involved. No easy things to give up, I know that. I also know that nobody life is perfect, that’s not possible. However, the problem is that I don’t feel it. I don’t feel worthy. I don’t believe it (yet). I try to think the things I said earlier and repeat them, but I don’t believe and feel those words (yet). I went to a psychologist, but I don’t have the feeling it helped that much. It helped me to see some patterns but it doesn’t seem the help much with the healing part.

I have a good boyfriend who is very supportive. I do love him, he makes me feel safe. His actions match his words, I don’t worry he will hurt me, or that he would cheat on me. On a sexual level, I do miss something. But maybe that feeling has also something to do with the MM. He validated me by sending sexual texts, by having a lot of sex with me. In my relationship, this is not the case. My boyfriend validates me in other ways: he tells me he loves me, he kisses and hugs me a lot, things MM never did, but the sex isn’t passionate. He doesn’t initiate sex much as the MM did. The things MM did made me feel pretty, made me feel wanted. My boyfriend doesn’t do much of those things. I do miss the passion and initating sex and I've talked about it with him. However, not much changes. I do wonder if this is a reason for breaking up. I assume a lot of people have this problem (that one partner has to initiate much more than the other and the sex isn't that passionate), but do they break up for that? 

I’m too scared to end things with my boyfriend. He’s a good person and there are a lot of good aspects in our relationship. Additionally, I didn’t like dating at all and I’m scared I will never find someone else. Or that I will never have children. I’m honest with my boyfriend about my doubts and fears. He knows it all.  I’ve told him it’s fine if he wants to dump me, I would totally understand it. But (for now?), he chooses to stay.

@Daisydooks, @HadMeOverABarrel, how do you start validating yourself? And letting go the need of validation by others? For example, my father is someone that always thinks I can do better in all areas of my life. It’s never good enough for him. He’s very present in my life and it’s difficult thinking good of myself when I'm often hearing such stuff. I cannot cut my dad off, I want him in my life. I'm trying to accept that everything I do will never be good enough for him. I guess I must try to learn to not wanting his validation, but I find this very hard. MM has been cut off, but even now his mean words still cause me pain. 

You know what I would really like? Just peace in my head and in my heart. No more pain and crying over someone that doesn’t even care about me. No worrying about all the possible things that could happen in my future. Having faith that it all will be all right in the future. Having faith in myself, believing I’m a worthy person to. That my life is worthy as well even though I’m not rich, or if I would be single again or would never have children. That would be so great! 

I don’t speak of my MM or my x-MM because he was never my MM to begin with (so how could he ever be my x-MM) but he still is very much a MM. That's why I prefer to refer to him as a/the MM.

Edited August 3, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
stated issue in forum choice resolved

[Wiseman2]

25 minutes ago, SSE said:

I have some good days where I don’t think that much about it because I'm busy renovating my house. I have a good boyfriend who is very supportive. I do love him, he makes me feel safe. His actions match his words, I don’t worry he will hurt me, or that he would cheat on me.

Try to focus on this rather than a lying cheater. It's unclear if you are happy with a new decent BF, renovating your home etc., why you would ruminate about some creep from years ago

It's important not to idealize the past or mistake intensity for intimacy.

 Basically if you are still ruminating about this it may be time to see a physician about moods, anxiety, etc. as well as get a referral to a therapist for ongoing support.

You may need help replacing self-destructive, self-defeating thoughts and behaviors with healthier ones. Invest in yourself and your happiness, not idealized romance dramas.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Wiseman2

[heartwhole2]

I think you should keep up with the therapy. You have a lot to explore with the way your dad (mis)treats you and how that impacts you today.

In an affair, you don't have access to each other all the time, so when you do, you often have sex. In a regular long-term relationship, no, you aren't going to be ripping each other's clothes off all the time. It sounds like your boyfriend is a good person who loves you a lot. I'm glad that you can be honest with him about how you are feeling.

If he's affectionate in other ways but not initiating a lot of sex, he may benefit from seeing a doctor to rule out any health issues.

I don't see anything attractive about your xMM when you describe him. I'm pretty wealthy but I never brag about it. In fact, I am very mindful of how money could make me things I don't want to be . . . unkind, materialistic, shallow, etc. My husband had an affair when our financial situation had a big boost; it's no surprise that having more money made him feel more entitled and less grounded. But you know what, I got a lot of my values from my father, who was raised modestly and then became pretty successful and well known in his field. He always remained humble and down to earth. It seems clear that your father's insecurities and struggles have given you less of a true north to follow. 

The way that you reset your compass is to surround yourself with people and situations that reflect the life and values you want to have. A relationship with a stable, kind person isn't filling the self-esteem hole inside of you, so you think back to the thrill of being wanted by a married man. But what this situation should really do is reveal to you that nothing external will ever fill that hole for you. That's work you need to do on your self, ideally in therapy. 

Maybe you aren't able or ready to cut your dad off, but you can reduce how much time and energy you put into that relationship. That might give you a little more perspective and breathing room. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

@SSE I'm guessing you never fully processed your experience with xMM. It sounds like you may have experienced some trauma bonding with him (and with your dad), which is harder to process than a typical relationship ending. This probably accounts for your ruminating. It's really, really hard to do this on your own without support or guidance. 

Have you looked into trauma bonding and how to recover from it? A credentialed therapist would be very helpful with this. 

Also, you should explore ways to learn to emotionally disconnect/distance with your father if he is constantly critcizing you. It might be his way of making him feel better about himself to put you down (although he's probably not fully aware it's why he's doing it). I'm pretty sure he would say he criticizes you because he cares about you. But people who care about you don't do things to make you feel bad. Have you talked with him about how his criticizing makes you feel? If so, how did he respond? His response will say a lot about him. It's very difficult to heal from something when you keep subjecting yourself to it. 

On validation, good question! I have to credit my therapy on this. At its most basic, it comes down to self-worth at our deepest levels. I realized in therapy I was giving of myself way too much, which sent a message to others that I undervalued my contributions and was ripe for being used. I previously believed other people would naturally meet my level of contribution and I hung around in relationships waiting for that to happen. When it didn't, I felt undervalued by that person. In therapy, we examine our patterns and their underlying beliefs. I learned to be more discerning my relationships. When the other person pulls back or gives less, old me would've filled the gap by giving more. New me gives less in proportion. I think healthy relationships ebb and flow depending on what is happening in people's lives. I had to learn not to over-compensate and become Ms. Fix-it in the ebbs. I had to learn that when someone acts crappy, it might mean they are actually a crappy person.

For example, a neighbor minimized my concerns about a bad guy threatening violence against me. This was after we had long talks about her sister being killed after a violent rape and we had agreed to look out for each other in the event of home invasion or whatever.  I discussed her minimization with my therapist who told me that she's not safe to trust in the way I previously thought. I was disappointed in my neighbor, but I withdrew my friendship by no longer sharing personal details. I still remained friendly and neighborly. Sure enough, this neighbor showed more of her true colors over time by helping herself to my things and being very intrusive into my business. I've confronted her. Each time I have lessened my level of friendliness. A couple weeks ago I finally called the police on her for theft because she stole something from my yard and was playing some stupid games about when she'd be available to discuss it with me instead of returning it when I went to retrieve it. I think she enjoys stirring dramas and meddling. Now I don't even say hello.

I'm telling you this story as an example of how I adjusted my behavior towards someone based on what I learned in therapy. After each offensive act, I've reinforced my boundaries and created more distance. Whereas the unhealthy thing to do would've been to carry on with the relationship as before. Hope this example helps. 

I'm less attached to outcomes now. I'm not perfect. I'm still a work in progress. I hope this helps. I will post more if I can think of anything about validation that might be helpful to you. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by HadMeOverABarrel
Typos, paragraphs, grammar

[BaileyB]

3 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

A relationship with a stable, kind person isn't filling the self-esteem hole inside of you, so you think back to the thrill of being wanted by a married man. But what this situation should really do is reveal to you that nothing external will ever fill that hole for you.

Just restating for emphasis. 

Yes, you have a complicated relationship with your father and this has clearly affected your self esteem - thus making you vulnerable to this MM. But, until YOU decided that YOU have value - you will continue to search to find your worth in the men in your life.

 

 

[solostand]

7 hours ago, SSE said:

 

@Daisydooks, @HadMeOverABarrel, how do you start validating yourself? And letting go the need of validation by others?

In my experience, do not accept the bags of shame they are trying to burden you with. I no longer accept shame, my heart is closed to it.

Unconditional love carries no conditions. That's why it is called unconditional. I work really hard to love myself unconditionally, and also I have to try my best to love all of my other loved ones without condition. We're all souls trying our best in my opinion.

 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

15 minutes ago, solostand said:

do not accept the bags of shame they are trying to burden you with

This is important, yes!  Shame is a very important piece of the puzzle. When we received messages from our caregivers or people in authority during our youth that told us we were less than or not worthy, it activated shame. That shame is a painful emotion and undermines our self-worth.

It remains within us until we are able to confront it and the messages we received (like in therapy)--but probably more people than not never confront it in their lifetime.  Instead they repeat patterns, defense mechanisms, and poor coping strategies. These pass from generation to generation. 

I'm going to call it core shame. When someone abuses us, invalidates us, humiliates us, our core shame is activated. Those feelings from long ago are activated.

What is interesting about abusers, I believe, is they abuse others in order to avoid their own shame. Like the bully on the schoolyard playground, they taunt and hurt others because they feel powerless in their own lives. They are/were probably also victims of abuse, and developed coping mechanisms to deal with the abuse they received. Some of these coping mechanisms might include modeling the behaviors of their own abusers. Basically, they poorly adapted.

Therapy helps us find better ways to cope and adapt. We can't control how others treat us, but we can control how we react and what we decide to do with it. 

I started looking into core shame about 18 months ago, but was getting too triggered to continue. I have to slow it down or go about it in a more therapeutic setting supported by therapist. It's important though, because I believe after it's wholly processed, one can emerge as a fully integrated and psychologically healed person able to not be triggered much or influenced by abusers.  So, for those brave enough to explore their core shame, it's a harrowing journey into the self but with great rewards. 

[solostand]

I dealt with shame in rehab and I found it the most emotional, yet freeing and rewarding  part of the month long program.

Although I am far from perfect, when someone chooses to hand me shame by, say, punishing me with silence or other maladaptive behaviours, I just visualize a big old psychic chastity type belt over my heart to keep their problems out!