elaine567 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Its either true or its not, you categorically told me nobody would be interest. I actually said... 9 hours ago, elaine567 said: In fact very few women will want to "teach" a fully grown 38 yo man the basics of dating and sex.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: Apparently the one thing you can't talk about is how to attract women. This is you part of your problem, you don't think you have anything to learn from anyone. Dates are not supposed to be about what you know or deep, serious issues of any kind. Unless she is sexually attracted to your intelligence (which will be an extreme minority of women), dates are supposed to be fun and light. She associates you with whatever feeling you help to promote on the date. If you're talking about serious subjects, what does that do to frame you as a sexy, fun guy? Nothing. Moreover, no woman cares what you know. She can politely engage in the conversation, but she doesn't care how learned you are. Most women (and most people actually) like to talk about themselves, things like where they went on vacation, what TV series they like, what their hopes and dreams are. Sure, point taken, however I simply refuse to sit there and be asked nothing about myself, I put up with the rubbish for years and will not actively partake in it any longer, its not like any of the conversation they promote is fun and light either. I sat at one dated for 3 hours being told about an interview she went to in minute detail, tell me how that can be seen from my point of view as fun and sext. I have no doubt you are correct about fun and sexy, I am just not fun and sexy, I know guys who are very good at this , despite me finding it totally cringeworthy to be honest the level nonsense being spoken. Yes, you should get a date to laugh, even I am stupid enough to know that and from time to time I do manage this but guess what I am not a sexy guy and have never been able to market that way because the lack of success and experience might as well be written on my face so obvious it is to anyone that meets me. Sure I agree, whatever feeling I can promote on a date, except I most of the time I feel zero for these people, I might as well be doing an interview with someone. They put in zero effort and I do not care what she looks like, if she puts in zero effort I am not interested even slightly but some women get away with this because there is always some guy who will put in MAX effort with the view of taking her home. Me, I simply want a second date with someone I enjoy spending time with.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 Just now, elaine567 said: I actually said... Semantics, it amounts to basically the same thing.
dramafreezone Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Which nobody is prepared to give. Women will be more than happy to give you experience as long as they're getting something from the transaction (and I don't mean money). What are you offering? A fun experience? You making them feel sexy? Edited May 22, 2021 by dramafreezone
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: Women will be more than happy to give you experience as long as they're getting something from the transaction (and I don't mean money). What are you offering? A fun experience? You making them feel sexy? Yeah sure. I admire your honesty and I admire you belief. However, the reality is yes I suppose if one enjoys going out drinking and that apparent "fun'" then I am sure that experience is readily available. At least you and I agree dating is purely transactional. Irrespective what I had to offer I am not sexy and there is always someone more FUN nearby which means well I just nowhere.
dramafreezone Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Yeah sure. I admire your honesty and I admire you belief. However, the reality is yes I suppose if one enjoys going out drinking and that apparent "fun'" then I am sure that experience is readily available. At least you and I agree dating is purely transactional. Irrespective what I had to offer I am not sexy and there is always someone more FUN nearby which means well I just nowhere. It shouldn't even be in your head whether or not you're sexy. That's for the woman to decide. You're measuring yourself against men who have sex appeal with little to no effort. These guys were born with that quality It's faulty logic to say you should just give up since you're not in this very small subset of men. I'm not one of those guys. The way you're thinking is akin to someone who's not 7 feet tall saying that they can't play competitive basketball, it's not true. Does being 7 feet tall make it easier to make it to play basketball? Sure. Can you make it to the NBA at 5'7''? Yes, there have been several that have. Similarly, does being naturally sexy make it easier to attract women? Of course it does. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. Moreover, it only matters what the woman you're dating finds sexy, and if she's on a date with you, you've likely met her minimum requirements. If in her mind she can picture herself having sex with you, then that's good enough. Here's something else, most that have dated or even befriended you have at least momentarily thought of having sex with you. If you can think of it as a small ember on a log, your job at that point is to fan that ember into a small flame and then a fire. That takes time, patience and deliberate calculated action. If you've made it to a date with the woman, the ember is there most often. It's just a matter of time, whether or not you have chemistry, and not doing/acting in a way that makes her lose attraction. Edited May 22, 2021 by dramafreezone 2
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 1 minute ago, dramafreezone said: It shouldn't even be in your head whether or not you're sexy. That's for the woman to decide. You're measuring yourself against men who have sex appeal with little to no effort. These guys were born with that quality It's faulty logic to say you should just give up since you're not in this very small subset of men. I'm not one of those guys. The way you're thinking is akin to someone who's not 7 feet tall saying that they can't play competitive basketball, it's not true. Does being 7 feet tall make it easier to make it to play basketball? Sure. Can you make it to the NBA at 5'7''? Yes, there have been several that have. Similarly, does being naturally sexy make it easier to attract women? Of course it does. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. Moreover, it only matters what the woman you're dating finds sexy, and if she's on a date with you, you've likely met her minimum requirements. If you can think of it as a small ember on a log, your job at that point is to fan that ember into a small flame and then a fire. That takes time, patients and deliberate calculated action. If you've made it to a date with the woman, the ember is there most often. It's just a matter of time, whether or not you have chemistry, and not doing/acting in a way that makes her lose attraction. Well I next to never land up on dates with people I find attractive so that pretty much say it all really.
Weezy1973 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 1 hour ago, ZA Dater said: The matches I get do not lie, they are all the same and completely incompatible with me. So if I need to find these people attractive to find any success well the I wont be finding any success. If change what I am doing means no OLD, perfectly fine for me. 1. These are not matches. These are just women that swiped right on you. Stop calling them matches. 2. You’ve acknowledged multiple times that you actually have matched with women you find attractive. It’s rare, but it happens. Stop saying ALL your “matches” are unattractive because it’s not true. But you believe the lie you’re telli by yourself. 3. Yet again, nobody is saying you should date people you find unattractive. Why do you keep saying that’s what we’re saying or thinking it’s your only option. 4. And yet again, yes you have admitted that “looks / charm first” mediums such as OLD and bars / clubs aren’t going to generate much success for you. So why keep going back? Tinder especially is the shallowest of dating apps. One I’m saying is your inner monologue is like on a loop. You keep repeating the same things even when they’re not true or irrelevant as if they’re really meaningful and painting an accurate picture. You inner monologue matters. The qualities you have that you like in yourself will do well with a certain segment of the population. If you wanted to settle down, have a family, by a house in the suburbs etc. I think you would have plenty more options. A marriage or long term relationship app / site might even garner you more success. And your age and stable job makes you a good “catch” for women looking to marry and have kids. Bonus points for honesty, being caring, generous etc. 1
dramafreezone Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Well I next to never land up on dates with people I find attractive so that pretty much say it all really. Next to never is not never. So you have been on dates with women where there was mutual attraction. So you can stop with this idea that it's not possible. You were just ill-prepared to capitalize on it. The "woe is me" inner monologue manifested itself though your body language and snuffed out any attraction that they felt. This is the importance of changing your self-talk. When you do get opportunities, you mess them up. Edited May 22, 2021 by dramafreezone
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: Next to never is not never. So you have been on dates with women where there was mutual attraction. So you can stop with this idea that it's not possible. You were just ill-prepared to capitalize on it. Three in 20 years is hardly stellar.
dramafreezone Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 How many women do you need? One is all it takes.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: 1. These are not matches. These are just women that swiped right on you. Stop calling them matches. 2. You’ve acknowledged multiple times that you actually have matched with women you find attractive. It’s rare, but it happens. Stop saying ALL your “matches” are unattractive because it’s not true. But you believe the lie you’re telli by yourself. 3. Yet again, nobody is saying you should date people you find unattractive. Why do you keep saying that’s what we’re saying or thinking it’s your only option. 4. And yet again, yes you have admitted that “looks / charm first” mediums such as OLD and bars / clubs aren’t going to generate much success for you. So why keep going back? Tinder especially is the shallowest of dating apps. One I’m saying is your inner monologue is like on a loop. You keep repeating the same things even when they’re not true or irrelevant as if they’re really meaningful and painting an accurate picture. You inner monologue matters. The qualities you have that you like in yourself will do well with a certain segment of the population. If you wanted to settle down, have a family, by a house in the suburbs etc. I think you would have plenty more options. A marriage or long term relationship app / site might even garner you more success. And your age and stable job makes you a good “catch” for women looking to marry and have kids. Bonus points for honesty, being caring, generous etc. Oh yea I am very suited to the single mother, which for the most part do not interest me either and I am not going to elaborate on this any further. The widow was different because for one she is early 30's, has actually looked after herself, does not have a ex husband or ex bf in the picture so when you start adding those to the list the number of people falls off radically. The accurate picture is no success over too many years and no real prospects of success either, what many of you do not seem to understand, its all very well saying act sexy, sure I'd even try that but there is NOBODY to try that with, for me there are a few things which need ticking before I am going to even think about going there. 1: Is she attractive overall 2: Do I feel comfortable with her 3: Have I spent lots of time with her 4: Do I see any long term potential here 5: Am I reasonably compatible with her and her lifestyle. All of are what I need and 1, 2 and 5 are non negotiable for me.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: How many women do you need? One is all it takes. Your optimism is amazing.
Weezy1973 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 49 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Oh yea I am very suited to the single mother, which for the most part do not interest me either and I am not going to elaborate on this any further. I didn’t say single mother. I was referring women that want to get married and start a family. Do those types of women exist in South Africa? 1
Miss Spider Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 Bc she’s hot and you seem desperate( sorry) If she wasn’t, there’s no way you would be well suited. That sounds like a great reason /sarc .... 1
Weezy1973 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 50 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: 1: Is she attractive overall 2: Do I feel comfortable with her 3: Have I spent lots of time with her 4: Do I see any long term potential here 5: Am I reasonably compatible with her and her lifestyle. 1. Are you attractive overall? Not according to your own description of yourself. Why do you insist that she have this quality when you don’t have it yourself? 2. Do most women feel comfortable around you? You’ve described yourself at various times as awkward, serious and lacking a sense of humor. 3. I agree that it takes awhile to know if someone is compatible so not argument about spending a lot of time with someone. 4. Long term potential. Yup, that’s important. 5. Lifestyle compatibility also important. 2
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: I didn’t say single mother. I was referring women that want to get married and start a family. Do those types of women exist in South Africa? Few and far between in my experience. Unless one is very religious which I am not.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: 1. Are you attractive overall? Not according to your own description of yourself. Why do you insist that she have this quality when you don’t have it yourself? 2. Do most women feel comfortable around you? You’ve described yourself at various times as awkward, serious and lacking a sense of humor. 3. I agree that it takes awhile to know if someone is compatible so not argument about spending a lot of time with someone. 4. Long term potential. Yup, that’s important. 5. Lifestyle compatibility also important. I can insist on whatever I like to be honest. Many ladies I have encountered insist on what to many would seem like ridiculous things, how about experience ranking near the top of that list. Ok I am being sarcastic. My humor is dry, hardly my problem people cannot pick up on it. I am slim and athletic, that is he bare minimum looks requirement which I do not feel is unreasonable. Pretty face, would be nice, but only mildly important, actually scrap that, my ugly face needs a nice pretty face to compliment, again I am being half serious. You see I can want whatever I want, I know I am not going to get any of it.
Miss Spider Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: You see I can want whatever I want, I know I am not going to get any of it. Yea .. .. that’s true.. but seriously q then what’s the point of any of this discussion 2
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 22 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: Bc she’s hot and you seem desperate( sorry) If she wasn’t, there’s no way you would be well suited. That sounds like a great reason /sarc .... An interesting thing to think about how much interest one must show in the other person on a date, I like to try get to know people and that is the vibe I try on date's but when no effort is made to get to know me, I know the date is a failure from that point. Window, everyday there is an effort to ask me about me, how I am doing, what's going on in my life (dating never gets mentioned). Am I being unrealistic to expect a date to take some sort of interest in me?
Weezy1973 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 55 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: You see I can want whatever I want, I know I am not going to get any of it. Exactly. Which is why I maintain that you’re impossibly high standards are a defense mechanism. You’re so afraid to actually be vulnerable in a relationship, so as long as you can reject practically every woman see, and only hold out for those you know you won’t ever get, you never have to risk anything. And it’s working like a charm! 1
dramafreezone Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 51 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: I can insist on whatever I like to be honest. Many ladies I have encountered insist on what to many would seem like ridiculous things, how about experience ranking near the top of that list. Ok I am being sarcastic. My humor is dry, hardly my problem people cannot pick up on it. I am slim and athletic, that is he bare minimum looks requirement which I do not feel is unreasonable. Pretty face, would be nice, but only mildly important, actually scrap that, my ugly face needs a nice pretty face to compliment, again I am being half serious. You see I can want whatever I want, I know I am not going to get any of it. You can insist all you want. It doesn't mean anything. You're marketing yourself to a certain clientele, but you don't really respect them. If you did, you'd take what they want more into account and then deliver that. If you can't deliver what your clientele wants, that's a you problem, and your responsibility to remedy. It's not the client's problem, it's not the problem of those that can give them what they want. 2
Miss Spider Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, ZA Dater said: Am I being unrealistic to expect a date to take some sort of interest in me? If it never happens, then probably. As we’ve all said many, many times and you seem to understand.. there are only a few pragmatic options here. Lower your standards or raise your desirability...or continue on this path and hope for a miracle. I see no other way this obstacle can be overcome… Do you Edited May 22, 2021 by Cookiesandough 4
Prudence V Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 On 5/21/2021 at 3:23 PM, ZA Dater said: When its endless matches of overweight people, you are right I do not find them attractive. You do realise that weight is something someone can change, right? So that seems like a pretty superficial reason, to me. Ever seen the film “Shallow Hal”?
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