dangerous Posted May 21, 2021 Posted May 21, 2021 On 5/14/2021 at 8:39 AM, ZA Dater said: Why should I change to be unhappy. I am actually quite happy with the person I am, the beliefs I have and the approach I take to life. I have been down this so called change road before and the result was I felt even more of a misfit, even less confidence, even less attractive and for what? The very remote chance that brunette in the coffee shop might suddenly like me because I am now wearing jeans (which I hate)? Ask yourself, is that not a pretty ridiculous way to live, to live on the hopes of what other might find attractive at the expense of not actually feeling attractive? I simply refuse to pander to becoming another person in a crowd. If people walk left, I walk right. People find comfort in crowds, I do not. Because everyone goes to a bar, does not mean they all actually want to be there, why go somewhere you do not want to be? Because everyone else is? Sounds ridiculous to me. I am not going to go out, do things I do not enjoy, pretend to be someone I am not, go to places I do not like in the HOPE that someone will find me attractive when I already know they will not. Its my own fault I am unattractive because heck I just grew up thinking manners and those sort of things counted for nothing, turns out wallet, fun and good looks count for me. As they say at least window shopping is free! Be yourself. Do things you like to do. Go to events, maybe even join social/ interest groups and clubs with like minded people. There are so many diverse groups, I even joined a local philosophy discussion group! Much better to be happy in yourself and wait until you naturally engage and meet people you have shared interests, than try to force a match by online/ blind dating.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 21, 2021 Author Posted May 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said: If this is true, none of the things you’ve talked about even matter. The problem is you don’t find practically any women attractive. When its endless matches of overweight people, you are right I do not find them attractive. I go out and then determine if there is anyone who might be single, well the slime athletic gym lady, she might look single, next thing a bf walks up, unfortunately when it comes to dating it would seem the high demand items and people like me sit on the shelf forever. I find many people attractive they just are not interested in me and when I see who they link up with most of the time I am not surprised. 1
mark clemson Posted May 21, 2021 Posted May 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, chillii said: Sorry buddy but this ones crackin me up , l can just see all the single guys out there getting this straight of their YT gurus and making total idiots out of themselves . Actually you have a point. Doing this is not strictly necessary by any means, and in fact I had essentially ALL my GFs (around 14) and my wife before even becoming cognizant of this sort of stuff. However, unlike me in my younger days, OP is struggling. IF one is interested in "casting a wider net" (or perhaps putting more tempting bait on the fishing line) this sort of thing CAN work (or at least HELP). I know because I happened to read up on it (internet reviews and commentary on the book A Billion Wicked Thoughts) and was curious enough to attempt to put it into practice. And lo and behold - increased female attention - looks, big smiles, completely unnecessary conversations; to the point of blatant staring even in some cases. I had some issues WRT to desiring female attention in the form of flirting a bit too much, almost like a mild addiction. By my "problem" might be OP's gain, in the sense that it might help him a bit. It IS "internet guru" type stuff. However, ZA Dater is here, on the internet, asking for feedback/help. So, I'm attempting to oblige as I am able. I would never say this makes women magically fall into your lap. It DOES, when done well, generate some additional initial interest, sometimes quite genuine interest. That's ALL it does and it's up to you to take it from there. Edited May 21, 2021 by mark clemson
Weezy1973 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 13 hours ago, ZA Dater said: When its endless matches of overweight people, you are right I do not find them attractive. You’re playing the same monologue in your head over and over again and you know those core beliefs haven’t achieved you an iota of success. At some point you’re going to have to accept that you need to change what you’re doing. As long as you keep fighting it, you will fail.
elaine567 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 17 hours ago, ZA Dater said: When its endless matches of overweight people, you are right I do not find them attractive And they are not looking for platonic friends either. Unless you try to be more attractive to women these "overweight women" you so despise, will reject you out of hand too. Plenty "overweight women" have dates, have great relationships and eventually marry... They are not desperate to date a guy who doesn't even know how to kiss... to be blunt. In fact very few women will want to "teach" a fully grown 38 yo man the basics of dating and sex. You may think some gorgeous woman will adopt that role and guide you to happiness, but its just not going to happen. At 38 you will need to get out there and gain your own experience, like everyone else does. No-one or very very few will want to hold your hand through that process... Few woman in reality want a man who is looking for pity. Plenty women will take such men under their wing and say there there, but they don't really want such a man as their long term lover or partner... The widow was quite content to play the therapist and the good friend for you, whilst you unburdened you soul, but you were never seen as dating material. For a lover and life partner she was looking for a self reliant man who can look after himself, not a man with "issues"... You saw "opening up" as a good thing and it was to some extent - for you. All good practice in connecting with your emotional side, BUT it was never going to endear you to the widow or any other woman with options. 3
chillii Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) On 5/21/2021 at 11:35 PM, dangerous said: Be yourself. Do things you like to do. Go to events, maybe even join social/ interest groups and clubs with like minded people. There are so many diverse groups, I even joined a local philosophy discussion group! Much better to be happy in yourself and wait until you naturally engage and meet people you have shared interests, than try to force a match by online/ blind dating. Yep , for sure . And trying to be something your not is not even possible for a lifetime with someone anyway, sooner rather than later the real you will come forth. But eh , why would you even want to anyway it makes no sense , it wouldn't even be a real relationship or love. On the other hand though , we still might well have a few bad habits or issues that could need their butt kicked though but that's a different thing altogether really. Edited May 22, 2021 by chillii 1
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 7 hours ago, elaine567 said: And they are not looking for platonic friends either. Unless you try to be more attractive to women these "overweight women" you so despise, will reject you out of hand too. Plenty "overweight women" have dates, have great relationships and eventually marry... They are not desperate to date a guy who doesn't even know how to kiss... to be blunt. In fact very few women will want to "teach" a fully grown 38 yo man the basics of dating and sex. You may think some gorgeous woman will adopt that role and guide you to happiness, but its just not going to happen. At 38 you will need to get out there and gain your own experience, like everyone else does. No-one or very very few will want to hold your hand through that process... Few woman in reality want a man who is looking for pity. Plenty women will take such men under their wing and say there there, but they don't really want such a man as their long term lover or partner... The widow was quite content to play the therapist and the good friend for you, whilst you unburdened you soul, but you were never seen as dating material. For a lover and life partner she was looking for a self reliant man who can look after himself, not a man with "issues"... You saw "opening up" as a good thing and it was to some extent - for you. All good practice in connecting with your emotional side, BUT it was never going to endear you to the widow or any other woman with options. Oh well based on this I might as well just give up. No its the overweigh women who are desperate to spent any sort of time with me, or its the ones ones who see some success and can lift them out of their situation many people in this country find themselves in. Your blunt response above is appreciated however and has done everything to confirm my thinking already. SO there you go, experience matters and it matters a lot so this frankly just illustrates that I can go out and do whatever and it will make no difference because the core problem remains the same. I am never seen as dating material for anyone I find even vaguely attractive but it was nice just for a time to have the attention of someone I do find attractive. But you are right, who would pick me with better options around so why do I even bother at all.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 13 hours ago, Weezy1973 said: You’re playing the same monologue in your head over and over again and you know those core beliefs haven’t achieved you an iota of success. At some point you’re going to have to accept that you need to change what you’re doing. As long as you keep fighting it, you will fail. Core beliefs? The matches I get do not lie, they are all the same and completely incompatible with me. So if I need to find these people attractive to find any success well the I wont be finding any success. If change what I am doing means no OLD, perfectly fine for me.
dramafreezone Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) On 5/21/2021 at 5:41 AM, ZA Dater said: Just not that interested in preparing with people I do not find either interesting or attractive. Well I know you're not interested. My only point is that you're not taking this attraction thing seriously, or putting in a good faith effort. No amateur stands a chance by starting off in a professional setting. All of these women you think you're too good to date would also lose attraction to you. Edited May 22, 2021 by dramafreezone
elaine567 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: But you are right, who would pick me with better options around so why do I even bother at all. But that is NOT the attitude to have. Stop fooling yourself that. you can get away with doing nothing and some lovely woman will land in your lap and suddenly everything will fall into place... it won't, it will be The Widow version 2... and what a waste of time that will be. You need to get out there and try to get some experience, get up close and personal, initiate physical contact and gain experience. Yes its going to be uncomfortable, humiliating, awkward but not for long, it is not rocket science...
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: Well I know you're not interested. My only point is that you're not taking this attraction thing seriously, or putting in a good faith effort. No amateur stands a chance by starting off in a professional setting. All of these women you think you're too good to date would also lose attraction to you. Sure but I would not need to waste time time around people I do not find interesting and attractive. Attraction is pretty dam impossible from where I am sitting, try dress well, try keep fit, good eye contact. Sure they lose attraction, that's a given considering the very limited level of interest I would show.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, elaine567 said: But that is NOT the attitude to have. Stop fooling yourself that. you can get away with doing nothing and some lovely woman will land in your lap and suddenly everything will fall into place... it won't, it will be The Widow version 2... and what a waste of time that will be. You need to get out there and try to get some experience, get up close and personal, initiate physical contact and gain experience. Yes its going to be uncomfortable, humiliating, awkward but not for long, it is not rocket science... You have just told me the situation is hopeless so what sort of attitude would you like me adopt. Got out and do what exactly, you just made it very clear nobody would be interested so why should I even bother..... Honestly I can do without being humiliated, not seeing much of an advantage to be gained there either for my confidence level or or any sort of feel good.
Miss Spider Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: You have just told me the situation is hopeless so what sort of attitude would you like me adopt. Got out and do what exactly, you just made it very clear nobody would be interested so why should I even bother..... Honestly I can do without being humiliated, not seeing much of an advantage to be gained there either for my confidence level or or any sort of feel good. You said you have women you match on dating apps that you’re not attracted to at all... have you ever attempted to practice your conversation /dating skills .. I did this when I first started dating( go on dates with guys I had not much interest , try different things to see what happened low risk) and it really helped refine my dating skills and also you can be surprised at what happens. I’ve met guys I initially wasn’t that interested in that just seemed way cooler in person 1
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Short term pain for long term gain... No thanks, not with those odds which you admitted are pretty hopeless.
elaine567 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: No thanks, not with those odds which you admitted are pretty hopeless. I sad the odds were pretty hopeless in finding some wonderful female saviour to guide you through. I never said the odds were poor to you finding some natural experience. It is all about applying yourself to the task in hand..
dramafreezone Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Sure but I would not need to waste time time around people I do not find interesting and attractive. Attraction is pretty dam impossible from where I am sitting, try dress well, try keep fit, good eye contact. Sure they lose attraction, that's a given considering the very limited level of interest I would show. Well this is wrong. They would lose attraction because they would see that you're not the man they thought you were from a distance. If you were the man they thought you were, or more, your interest wouldn't mean anything to them, they would try to earn your validation, at least in the short term. The idea is giving yourself as many advantages as possible. That includes style, fitness, but also improving your conversational skills and energy. You ever hear of the aggregation of marginal gains? Same applies to attraction. Edited May 22, 2021 by dramafreezone
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: You said you have women you match on dating apps that you’re not attracted to at all... have you ever attempted to practice your conversation /dating skills .. I did this when I first started dating( go on dates with guys I had not much interest , try different things to see what happened low risk) and it really helped refine my dating skills and also you can be surprised at what happens. I’ve met guys I initially wasn’t that interested in that just seemed way cooler in person Sure, I spent years doing this but never ever was a really surprised in any way at all. I had one who I felt zero attraction to, she was besotted with me but that had no real appeal to me at all, the idea the way I see it is to refine and that is why I went on so many dates with people who did not interest me at all. Its very hard to drum up any sort of interest when the person from the outset does not interest me, I eventually just stopped doing these sorts of dates. Elaine is right, nobody would be interested in me so actually event trying is a totally pointless waste of time.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, elaine567 said: I sad the odds were pretty hopeless in finding some wonderful female saviour to guide you through. I never said the odds were poor to you finding some natural experience. It is all about applying yourself to the task in hand.. No I read your post very carefully and in a way I do appreciate you basically listed that there is no chance for me at all is NOBODY would be interested in a guy with no experience at all. Natural experience, I wont even ask how you define that, my guess is date someone I really have not interest in and effectively use them to gain experience, sorry that interests me about as much as jumping into a swimming pool in then middle of winter. On this topic for a few years I did market myself quite openly as having no experience and yes what you say is quite correct, a shoulder as cold as an iceberg was generally given and various less than complimentary things said.
elaine567 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 Until you make a determined effort to get physically close to a woman and get comfortable with that, you will always be on the outside looking in. 3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: On this topic for a few years I did market myself quite openly as having no experience and yes what you say is quite correct, a shoulder as cold as an iceberg was generally given and various less than complimentary things said. What else did you expect? The answer is not to wallow in your lack of experience, the answer is to GET some experience...
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 12 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: Well this is wrong. They would lose attraction because they would see that you're not the man they thought you were from a distance. If you were the man they thought you were, or more, your interest wouldn't mean anything to them, they would try to earn your validation, at least in the short term. The idea is giving yourself as many advantages as possible. That includes style, fitness, but also improving your conversational skills and energy. You ever hear of the aggregation of marginal gains? Same applies to attraction. My friend I can sit down and talk about anything, really I am quite well learned in that respect the problem comes when this is not reciprocated and when I sit there and get asked nothing about myself, there is nothing wrong with my conversation skills at all, the problem I generally find is apathy but then again I could not care because the people were never attractive to me to begin with. At the end of the day I can do whatever I want but as Elaine says nobody wants someone with no experience and I get that so yeah its a total loss all round really. Exude sex appeal, even if I could do that its pointless because lack of experience would mean I'd get passed over anyway. I am well capable of putting myself in the shoes of others and its probably this reason why I have a pretty defeatist attitude toward this because where is the upside, there is not one. Widow, I can chat to her easily with not having to worry about any of this nonsense but I realize I am a bit of a pity project to her, that much has become clear but you know what any attention she dished out, I'll take it because its a lot better than none at all. What would be the point of having people I do not find attractive earning my validation, I simply would not give it. Sure, aggregate gains are great, whether they exist at dating for most people I would question severely. I think what you have at dating you pretty much keep, barring throwing more superficial things at the problem, cant say I know anyone who has had to radically change their personality to be able to attract the people they want to date. But what do I know.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Until you make a determined effort to get physically close to a woman and get comfortable with that, you will always be on the outside looking in. What else did you expect? The answer is not to wallow in your lack of experience, the answer is to GET some experience... Which nobody is prepared to give. I am not going to get close to someone I do not find attractive that is the bottom line. No what I discovered is if you have no experience nobody is going to give it to you either....they will just move on, this is why I just gave up chasing sex, there was no point because I saw the type of guys who get this right and I am not like them at all and will never be either. Me, I am happy to wear my inexperience on my sleeve, I do not really care what people think, I am mocked about it enough. The day I will get experience is when someone I like actually finds me attractive but lets be honest that very unlikely at best so yes in some ways I am just sitting around waiting for that person to appear.
dramafreezone Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: My friend I can sit down and talk about anything, really I am quite well learned in that respect the problem comes when this is not reciprocated and when I sit there and get asked nothing about myself, there is nothing wrong with my conversation skills at all, the problem I generally find is apathy but then again I could not care because the people were never attractive to me to begin with. At the end of the day I can do whatever I want but as Elaine says nobody wants someone with no experience and I get that so yeah its a total loss all round really. Exude sex appeal, even if I could do that its pointless because lack of experience would mean I'd get passed over anyway. I am well capable of putting myself in the shoes of others and its probably this reason why I have a pretty defeatist attitude toward this because where is the upside, there is not one. Apparently the one thing you can't talk about is how to attract women. This is you part of your problem, you don't think you have anything to learn from anyone. Dates are not supposed to be about what you know or deep, serious issues of any kind. Unless she is sexually attracted to your intelligence (which will be an extreme minority of women), dates are supposed to be fun and light. She associates you with whatever feeling you help to promote on the date. If you're talking about serious subjects, what does that do to frame you as a sexy, fun guy? Nothing. Moreover, no woman cares what you know. She can politely engage in the conversation, but she doesn't care how learned you are. Most women (and most people actually) like to talk about themselves, things like where they went on vacation, what TV series they like, what their hopes and dreams are. 1
elaine567 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Which nobody is prepared to give. That is not quite true. Few women want to "teach" a man of 38 about sex, but had you gone home with that woman who was all over you, then you would have gained some "natural experience" which may have been enjoyable for you both...
Author ZA Dater Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, elaine567 said: That is not quite true. Few women want to "teach" a man of 38 about sex, but had you gone home with that woman who was all over you, then you would have gained some "natural experience" which may have been enjoyable for you both... Its either true or its not, you categorically told me nobody would be interest. I was not attracted to her at all, not even slightly. So no there was nothing pleasant to be gained there at all.
Recommended Posts