Can this work

[Weezy1973]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

You forget one simple fact about human beings, most of us only build up beliefs through experience.

Not really. Our core beliefs about ourselves are often formed in childhood and then we filter the world through our beliefs as we get older. We don’t see the world as it is; we see it as we are.

For example, two different men, one with self worth and one without, approach a woman at a bar and offer to buy her a drink. She says - no thanks, I have a boyfriend.

The man with self worth thinks “ah she has a boyfriend.” The man without self worth thinks “ah, she probably doesn’t have a boyfriend, but let me down easy. I’m just not attractive enough.”

The conclusions you come to without evidence is a product of your core beliefs. You’ve talked many times about how a woman you were chatting online with eventually fizzled and always attributed it to someone more attractive coming along, where in reality you have no idea why the conversation fizzled. But your core beliefs fill in the blanks. 
 

If you don’t think you’re attractive and women are only attracted to men that are very different than you, that’s what you’ll see. But it’s not reality. It’s your interpretation of reality through the core beliefs you hold. And one thing we can both agree for certain is that these core beliefs aren’t serving you well at all when it comes to dating / love / relationships. But you continue to hold onto these beliefs as if your life depended on it. 
 

You won’t get anywhere until you start to acknowledge this. Again, very likely the beliefs started in childhood. You’ve mentioned have a difficult childhood with a serious mother and you’ve never mentioned your dad. What was their relationship like? 

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Not really. Our core beliefs about ourselves are often formed in childhood and then we filter the world through our beliefs as we get older. We don’t see the world as it is; we see it as we are.

For example, two different men, one with self worth and one without, approach a woman at a bar and offer to buy her a drink. She says - no thanks, I have a boyfriend.

The man with self worth thinks “ah she has a boyfriend.” The man without self worth thinks “ah, she probably doesn’t have a boyfriend, but let me down easy. I’m just not attractive enough.”

The conclusions you come to without evidence is a product of your core beliefs. You’ve talked many times about how a woman you were chatting online with eventually fizzled and always attributed it to someone more attractive coming along, where in reality you have no idea why the conversation fizzled. But your core beliefs fill in the blanks. 
 

If you don’t think you’re attractive and women are only attracted to men that are very different than you, that’s what you’ll see. But it’s not reality. It’s your interpretation of reality through the core beliefs you hold. And one thing we can both agree for certain is that these core beliefs aren’t serving you well at all when it comes to dating / love / relationships. But you continue to hold onto these beliefs as if your life depended on it. 
 

You won’t get anywhere until you start to acknowledge this. Again, very likely the beliefs started in childhood. You’ve mentioned have a difficult childhood with a serious mother and you’ve never mentioned your dad. What was their relationship like? 

I would be fair to say I did not any many examples of well functioning relationships when I was growing up. Life was adverse but then again its always been so. 

Your entire post above really is why I enjoyed chatting with this lady because she proved me wrong. This happened before but not often enough and in between these its usually a case of rejection, rejection and unattractive matches. The fact remains I am not like a lot of guys, I do not drink I do not party so that already removes me from the party scene and to be honest there is much left when you remove that, yes, single 35yo+ single mothers with tons of baggage, ladies who have not looked after themselves, bitter career ladies who are so fussy nobody will do, gold diggers who offer nothing of consequence. So yes when the person sitting in front of me ticks most of what I like its quite nice actually versus sitting with people I do not really find interesting or attractive. 

I have no issue being proven wrong but it simply happens so seldom that its easy to believe what I believe because there is not much to disprove it. Can I be a loving, caring, kind take an interest guy, sure that is what I go out everyday to be, do people want that, well I don't know really. 

There is a lot of evident to prove my core beliefs mostly right. Lots and lots of it.  I can sit at a bar and get no attention, that loud mouth beer drinking Chad gets plenty of attention despite actually saying nothing of consequence, he will charm whoever, take her home and move onto the next one the next day. I know this because I know many such guys and you know what I gave up years ago trying to compete, its useless.

This time I might actually have some attributes which are of use and of interest, so while I might not win this game I am actually going to try play the game, which is a lot more than I usually do. But sure I am ready for the inevitable rejection and disappointment because that is the realistic point of view. 

[Weezy1973]

On 12/17/2020 at 11:34 AM, ZA Dater said:

I would be fair to say I did not any many examples of well functioning relationships when I was growing up.

Of course; similar to most people that struggle with these things. It those core beliefs that happened during your childhood that continue your ability to genuinely connect with people today. 
 

If you want things to change, you really need to address these unhelpful thoughts. It’s not easy, which is why you might be seeking a simple fix, but they won’t work.

[ZA Dater]

19 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Of course; similar to most people that struggle with these things. It those core beliefs that happened during your childhood that continue your ability to genuinely connect with people today. 
 

If you want things to change, you really need to address these unhelpful thoughts. It’s not easy, which is why you might be seeking a simple fix, but they won’t work.

Well I am still speaking to her so that's a start I suppose. Look the most likely outcome here is likely to be friend zoned but again I can choose to look at that badly or not. That's the thing, what I am trying to do is put a different spin on things and how I view them and react to them. I can take what I have experienced and be a better person for it or a worse person because of it.

I just think fundamentally I do go for the a certain degree of incompatibility because shy people don't make me a better person, confident people do. I am forced to be raise my game, whereas with a shy person I can just sort of go through the motions. 

One thing I do know....you cannot make someone like you, they either do or they dont.

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Look the most likely outcome here is likely to be friend zoned but again I can choose to look at that badly or not.

You’re not getting what I’m saying.
 

It won’t matter. She could be attracted to you and want to date and want a relationship. The problem has nothing to do with her. It’s your beliefs. You don’t feel worthy of being loved. Even if she’s totally interested in you, your own insecurities will sabotage things. Because of your core beliefs, and until you really commit to addressing them, you’ll continue to run on the treadmill of struggle that has characterized your romantic life.

[Foxhall]

I find you always describe very well the reality of the mindset and challenges that a non natural in the dating game has to overcome.

you keep coming back for more I suppose in fairness, so you have a resiliance.

making the dates a little more romantic is probably your challenge with this date, complimenting her on her appearance, bringing a little gift like flowers or chocolates, suggest a nice walk together, let her know you want to kiss her at the end of the date,

I dont know how you communicate between dates, Ive found icebreakers such as "share your song for the day" as being of some use in just relaxing the communication a little and putting the lady at ease  ahead of the date.

 

[basil67]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

what I am trying to do is put a different spin on things and how I view them and react to them. I can take what I have experienced and be a better person for it or a worse person because of it.

So glad to hear you are doing this.    Yes, she might "friendzone you" (negative) or she may become a "new friend" (positive).    That new friend may introduce you to other people, which could enhance your social life and dating opportunities in general.

[ZA Dater]

18 hours ago, Foxhall said:

I find you always describe very well the reality of the mindset and challenges that a non natural in the dating game has to overcome.

you keep coming back for more I suppose in fairness, so you have a resiliance.

making the dates a little more romantic is probably your challenge with this date, complimenting her on her appearance, bringing a little gift like flowers or chocolates, suggest a nice walk together, let her know you want to kiss her at the end of the date,

I dont know how you communicate between dates, Ive found icebreakers such as "share your song for the day" as being of some use in just relaxing the communication a little and putting the lady at ease  ahead of the date.

 

When the dust settles I know what I want and what I do not want so I will keep going until I get something I do want, even if fleetingly. Remember she is a window so I need to tread carefully here, she is also going through a lot at the moment and she lives 1000 miles away. As for kissing at the end of the date, every time I have done that, its been a dead certainty I will never see the person again....

Perhaps something I left out was the fact she thinks she might struggle to date now because people wont like her story and the fact she has a very young baby. In my mind this removes some of the "competition". What was also different here is sitting talking was refreshing, the conversation flowed and I shared many things I would not ordinarily share. 

 

[ZA Dater]

21 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

You’re not getting what I’m saying.
 

It won’t matter. She could be attracted to you and want to date and want a relationship. The problem has nothing to do with her. It’s your beliefs. You don’t feel worthy of being loved. Even if she’s totally interested in you, your own insecurities will sabotage things. Because of your core beliefs, and until you really commit to addressing them, you’ll continue to run on the treadmill of struggle that has characterized your romantic life.

Well again experiences determine beliefs and sure what you say might have a ring of truth to it. I have done that in the past because I actually was not convinced the person would enhance my life, this person would bring something very different which I like. 

A lot of my struggle is centred on poor self confidence due to poor experiences and a few other life events. 

[basil67]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 As for kissing at the end of the date, every time I have done that, its been a dead certainty I will never see the person again....

I wonder if this is related to you not having experienced the feeling of 'chemistry'.   

Many guys talk about kissing at the end of a good date, but as a woman, I would always place the caveat that it should only be done so if there is a feeling of 'chemistry'.   Working on the theory that you don't understand what chemistry feels like, I'll say what it looks like:  the two of you will move closer to each other when talking, she may touch you when she's speaking, her knee may 'accidentally' brush yours, she may linger at the end of the date instead of heading directly to her transport.   Don't pay too much attention to eye contact or face touching as many do this no matter whether they are interested or not.  

[ZA Dater]

20 hours ago, basil67 said:

I wonder if this is related to you not having experienced the feeling of 'chemistry'.   

Many guys talk about kissing at the end of a good date, but as a woman, I would always place the caveat that it should only be done so if there is a feeling of 'chemistry'.   Working on the theory that you don't understand what chemistry feels like, I'll say what it looks like:  the two of you will move closer to each other when talking, she may touch you when she's speaking, her knee may 'accidentally' brush yours, she may linger at the end of the date instead of heading directly to her transport.   Don't pay too much attention to eye contact or face touching as many do this no matter whether they are interested or not.  

As you so often do you have hit the nail on the head. I never really experience any of those things, the only two times I did were when the date was quite drunk and the other turned out to be a professional lady. See I just do not have that chemistry about me, I am not really the touchy emotional type so I try compensate for this by bringing kindness to the fore and thoughtfulness. Which is also why the best I can often hope for is friend zone because virtually every other guy is better at me at the chemistry part. 

Anyway I am chatting to this lady every other day or so, keen to try subtly promote myself whilst not going overboard, she is only going to be here in Feb again so. One of the things I am good at which might actually stand me in good stead here is empathy. One of the things I refuse to do each day is smack myself back into the ground dating wise, I need to believe in something good and this is my good at the moment. 

[basil67]

Sounds like that 'chemistry' which happened was very one sided from their end    Most often it's mutual, but one sided can happen....

I think it's great that you're chatting to her and keeping positive about the outcome.   

[Foxhall]

On 12/20/2020 at 6:38 PM, ZA Dater said:

What was also different here is sitting talking was refreshing, the conversation flowed and I shared many things I would not ordinarily share. 

 

that is enjoyable on its own right, good to get that type of encounter

[ZA Dater]

Well I might have actually left a positive impression for once, I got sent a long voice note ending with "I am looking forward to seeing you again". 

[ZA Dater]

An update on this. Well all in all this is rather nice, not a lot of chatting but what chatting there is, is meaningful and it really centres on actually taking an interest in each other and I can bring out my thoughtful and caring side. The fact she is 1000 miles away is not such a huge issue "one day when things are normal me an baby will hop on a plane to see you" . COVID means its pretty much impossible to move around here.

What I think is new for her is I am not the usual "player' type guy she meets and she is not the typical lady I meet either so there is a certain degree of "this is different".  I am also opening up more than I usually do which I think is helping a bit. She is going through a really difficult time so I am trying to lend moral support which she seem to appreciate.

For once I feel like I can actually be me and not pretend to be someone I am not in the hope I can tailor myself more to what I think the person is looking for and I have to say this has made me a LOT happier in general, who knows I might be friend zoned but even if I am I am getting much more warmth from her than I have from anyone I have met in a VERY long time.

 

[chillii]

Nice to hear za. But notice she's put herself out there by saying she'd love to come back when things are better , you have to take some chances too if you would like more than just friends. lt doesn't have to be both barrels it can be subtle , maybe people here can help you with that but personally l'd be thinking if you would like more l wouldn't just let it drift along on some friend thing for the next 12mths l'd be turning it up a notch or two along the way or you will just be friends and that will be that. l know you'll be thinking of the gamble and risk of losing even just that friendship and blowing the whole thing all together , something you have to decide l guess. But if you would like more she;ll be needing to see something more from you too. Good luck with it anyway.

[ZA Dater]

Well the answer to my question is: No.

Friendly and interest are never the same thing and this was simply the former and not much of the latter. Must say it was nice idea. Certainly better than any of the dating ideas I have had in recent years. Of course it was improbable from the outset which of course in part made me like the idea. 

Again though all I am proving is the posters here are mostly right. I'll stay in my lane and look at what I do like but realise I cant play at that level, even if its a nice thought to think I can. 

The positives for me was I was able to open up and I did actually get someone to laugh and I actually "liked" her and the truth is I "like" very few people. Each year I outline what I want to do in that year and each year I hope to find someone who makes me feel something. The sense of loneliness I feel at times is very profound, the sense I am missing out on something equally profound then I go on dates and well most of the time I wonder why.....

No, this year I need to set different objectives. I once again got teased about not having a date recently and its becoming difficult to laugh that off though I think I am going to pretend with people who do not know me very well that I am dating someone. 

Nevertheless it was great spending an evening with her and it was a good experience but also re affirms to me what is and isnt  possible. Of course there are the usual wholly unattractive Tinder matches, Bumble is even worse because none of the ones I like, like me.

SO yip this one is done.

[JRabbit]

On 12/16/2020 at 1:26 PM, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Be very wary of an attractive  woman that admittedly has problems dating, including OLD. She either has a bad picker or something amiss with her personality that you have not noticed yet.

I have to disagree, depending on the location, there just might not be much out there to choose from. 

[ZA Dater]

48 minutes ago, JRabbit said:

I have to disagree, depending on the location, there just might not be much out there to choose from. 

For me it would seem the totally unappealing are the only choices I have. At least every few years I have an experience like this which in some vicarious way satisfies my curiosity that what I want is the reality of many even if it's not my reality.

[ZA Dater]

This idea fell as flat as a pancake on the floor. Very clearly I mistook friendly for interest which I guess is normal for a guy who never gets interest from people I find attractive and never really gets any attention from anyone really.

Conversation carried on for a while but its very arb things, texts became less and sure I might see her in a few weeks but I sense there is nothing going here apart from maybe a long distance friendship. But then again I probably just deluded myself thinking I could actually date someone like this who has 40k IG followers. 

Over time I think people like me just become total loners but the allure of what if never really goes away either.  Working out and works keeps me going and gives me some focus. Inherently I think my strategy has to change, instead of hiding everything that is wrong with me I am just going to own those things and wear them on my sleeve. Wont make me very attractive but at least then I do not need to be someone I am not for so much of the time when trying to date. 

I did think and figured out I have another issue, I am not a "vulnerable" guy, I am like a rock, extremely strong because I show little emotion, both red flags for most ladies it would seem. This is also why I make a good friend for some because they just offload all their issues and I can sit and think about them rationally with no emotion involved. 

Reluctantly I also have to concede I wont ever get the "fun" that I missed out on in my 20's, that opportunity is gone, not that I ever really had it to begin with. 

One thing I can say is living vicariously is not so bad. 

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I probably just deluded myself thinking I could actually date someone like this who has 40k IG followers. 

I don't think you happened to mention that before...
I guess her followers are not following her because she is a climate change activist or a mathematical genius...
They are following her for how she looks and so why you thought you had a chance with her, was highly delusional, of course it was.
What were you thinking?

These girls who end up staying with you for a few days are NOT seeing you as a love interest, you provide a convenient place to stay whilst they are in town, that is all.
They are friendly because they they have no reason not to be, they are relying on you for a place to stay, so why would they want to make that  uncomfortable for themselves and you? 
Until you realise  and accept the women who are going to choose to be with you, are the women you actually attract on OLD, then  nothing is going to work for you. You are average and so you will attract average people, that is the bottom line. Women with 40K of  IG followers are not looking for average... They may detest players but they are still not looking for average...
Pushing against open doors is far easier and more fulfilling than always trying to get into locked rooms and failing miserably.
Yes  your match may be fat, fertile and forty, but that does not mean she is of any less value than the IG model who is totally out of your reach.
She is actually of more value than the model, as she is prepared to be with you, "the model" will always be looking for "better"....
Life is not a Rom-Com movie.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I don't think you happened to mention that before...
I guess her followers are not following her because she is a climate change activist or a mathematical genius...
They are following her for how she looks and so why you thought you had a chance with her, was highly delusional, of course it was.
What were you thinking?

These girls who end up staying with you for a few days are NOT seeing you as a love interest, you provide a convenient place to stay whilst they are in town, that is all.
They are friendly because they they have no reason not to be, they are relying on you for a place to stay, so why would they want to make that  uncomfortable for themselves and you? 
Until you realise  and accept the women who are going to choose to be with you, are the women you actually attract on OLD, then  nothing is going to work for you. You are average and so you will attract average people, that is the bottom line. Women with 40K of  IG followers are not looking for average... They may detest players but they are still not looking for average...
Pushing against open doors is far easier and more fulfilling than always trying to get into locked rooms and failing miserably.
Yes  your match may be fat, fertile and forty, but that does not mean she is of any less value than the IG model who is totally out of your reach.
She is actually of more value than the model, as she is prepared to be with you, "the model" will always be looking for "better"....
Life is not a Rom-Com movie.

I would not date a climate change activist even if she looked like Kate Upton.

I am not interested and never will be interested in the people I match with on OLD. There is absolutely no upside to continuing on that path at all, its dead end without any decent view and frankly it just makes me miserable and pollutes other parts of my life. Sure, its far easier to accept what you do not want, its likely to make you feel very happy....NOT. 

Maybe its because where I live and how I grew up but frankly if the goal in life is to just settle for whatever I may as well check out now, it should be about doing the best you can, being the best you can, influencing people in a positive way, interacting in a kind way and generally aspiring to things, rather than sitting back, throwing ones arms up and going "oh well this is the best I can do". 

People should always aspire to be the best they can, I have many positive points, many good attributes and I do not believe any conversation would have lasted hours had I been boring, there were many excuses to leave the conversation, there was no reason to keep contact with me, send me voice notes. Sure I am not dumb, could I succeed here, probably not but its a far more satisfying way to fail when you are actually chasing what you want. OLD I am not interested in those people for many reasons, physical, societal, personality, education, lifestyle etc.

I'd rather be rejected chasing someone I like than waste going on dates with people who like me but ones I wont ever like. SO while this was a loss for me it was actually a win because at least I got to spend time with someone I found attractive, that in itself is a win.  OLD is like business there is no emotion there, its a throw away idea which works well for few and is a disaster for many. 

If there is no wow for me, dating is about the same as having a business meeting, actually mostly those are more interesting. I thought about it yesterday while running, no matter what I do I am going to fail, sure by some miracle I find mutual attraction, guess how long that will last when she discovers at 36-7 I have not dated before, not long is my educated guess so I might as well just go after the small good wins leading to reasonable losses than go after what is easy and will frankly end the same way anyway.

Edited January 21, 2021 by ZA Dater

[chillii]

Well , as usual , l tried to get some positive into you with her , just going on what you'd said. Don't know anything about sm though but that sounds a lot and l'd imagine she'd have to be doing something to get those kinda numbers-which means talk is cheap n what ever crap she talked about staying with you, she's no princess, Sounds like any covo has fizzled out anyway , sorry but that happens too.

But your last few posts, man just copies of dozens of others you've put down in your threads, Yet 37 your still in the same place, what's that tell you if you say you aren't dumb. Mate, most people know or find ways or adapt or shift goal posts modify mix it up and 50 other things , to get what they want, That's why there's very few 37yr olds out there in your situation , you'll be 57 and still posting the copies, it's nothing to do with so called settling , it's just life and how to get what you want.

[dramafreezone]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I would not date a climate change activist even if she looked like Kate Upton.

I am not interested and never will be interested in the people I match with on OLD. There is absolutely no upside to continuing on that path at all, its dead end without any decent view and frankly it just makes me miserable and pollutes other parts of my life. Sure, its far easier to accept what you do not want, its likely to make you feel very happy....NOT. 

Maybe its because where I live and how I grew up but frankly if the goal in life is to just settle for whatever I may as well check out now, it should be about doing the best you can, being the best you can, influencing people in a positive way, interacting in a kind way and generally aspiring to things, rather than sitting back, throwing ones arms up and going "oh well this is the best I can do". 

People should always aspire to be the best they can, I have many positive points, many good attributes and I do not believe any conversation would have lasted hours had I been boring, there were many excuses to leave the conversation, there was no reason to keep contact with me, send me voice notes. Sure I am not dumb, could I succeed here, probably not but its a far more satisfying way to fail when you are actually chasing what you want. OLD I am not interested in those people for many reasons, physical, societal, personality, education, lifestyle etc.

I'd rather be rejected chasing someone I like than waste going on dates with people who like me but ones I wont ever like. SO while this was a loss for me it was actually a win because at least I got to spend time with someone I found attractive, that in itself is a win.  OLD is like business there is no emotion there, its a throw away idea which works well for few and is a disaster for many. 

If there is no wow for me, dating is about the same as having a business meeting, actually mostly those are more interesting. I thought about it yesterday while running, no matter what I do I am going to fail, sure by some miracle I find mutual attraction, guess how long that will last when she discovers at 36-7 I have not dated before, not long is my educated guess so I might as well just go after the small good wins leading to reasonable losses than go after what is easy and will frankly end the same way anyway.

You've got to work on your self-talk.  You say so many things as if they're absolutes.  "You will never be interested in the people" you match with on OLD.  Talk about painting with a broad brush.  How much OLD have you even done to come to this conclusion?  I think you have to have reasonably dated thousands of people for that belief to have much validity.

You say you want to go for the best, but your attitude is actually very self-defeating.  You'd rather be rejected by people that you like that don't even like you?  That sounds like you have low self-esteem.  You don't think you deserve people that you like to like you back?  You just feel lucky that you got to spend time with people that don't even like you?  Why do you put these poeple on a pedestal?  Why do you think they're more important than you are?  Why is what they want more important than what you want?  They're just people, they have all of the same flaws that everyone else has. 

You stand a very little chance of actually progressing with these people long term because women don't want to date someone that looks up to them or treats them like a celebrity.  Many of them are actually very insecure, so when they meet a man that treats them like a queen they think very little of that person, because they don't think much of themselves a lot of the time.  When you treat her like a celebrity she'll treat you like a fan.  Though I don't recommend this, you're actually better off being the exact opposite, date with an attitude that no woman is worthy of him.  Some very insecure women will actually mistake that for strength.  But the way you're going is just going to lead to more disappointment.

You've got some bad programming that you would be well-served to replace with positive core beliefs.  I hope you find what you want eventually.

Edited January 21, 2021 by dramafreezone

[ZA Dater]

19 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

You've got to work on your self-talk.  You say so many things as if they're absolutes.  "You will never be interested in the people" you match with on OLD.  Talk about painting with a broad brush.  How much OLD have you even done to come to this conclusion?  I think you have to have reasonably dated thousands of people for that belief to have much validity.

You say you want to go for the best, but your attitude is actually very self-defeating.  You'd rather be rejected by people that you like that don't even like you?  That sounds like you have low self-esteem.  You don't think you deserve people that you like to like you back?  You just feel lucky that you got to spend time with people that don't even like you?  Why do you put these poeple on a pedestal?  Why do you think they're more important than you are?  Why is what they want more important than what you want?  They're just people, they have all of the same flaws that everyone else has. 

You stand a very little chance of actually progressing with these people long term because women don't want to date someone that looks up to them or treats them like a celebrity.  Many of them are actually very insecure, so when they meet a man that treats them like a queen they think very little of that person, because they don't think much of themselves a lot of the time.  When you treat her like a celebrity she'll treat you like a fan.  Though I don't recommend this, you're actually better off being the exact opposite, date with an attitude that no woman is worthy of him.  Some very insecure women will actually mistake that for strength.  But the way you're going is just going to lead to more disappointment.

You've got some bad programming that you would be well-served to replace with positive core beliefs.  I hope you find what you want eventually.

Well I have yet to be proven wrong. Think about that, beliefs become beliefs in the absence of anything contrary. I have sat on OLD sites for probably 15 years, various sites with various profiles, with various pictures and various bios. "People that like me back" that is a foreign concept for me because I have never ever found mutual attraction ever. Yes,  I a lucky to sometimes get to spend time with people I like, far more lucky than going on dates with people on OLD who I frankly do not like but do so because people kept telling me its a numbers game, which clearly it is not, for me at least. 

Women I like do not want to date me irrespective of what face I put out there because there is always a better alternative, I have spent years trying to become that better alternative but still its not enough. You will find this themed echoed by many guys who simply have no dating life at all.The reality is I simply do not know how to date, one date I went on even told me as much "you lack experience, its obvious". At least she was honest. 

I have realised I wont ever find what I want, hence me having to be happy with scraps of what I like. It does not matter how caring I am, how interested I am, how engaging I am, how much interest I take, how many manners I show, none of that matters 95% of the time because there is ALWAYS some charming good looking guy who ultimately wins, nobody wants a shy introvert no matter how nice he might be, well unless they are are shy introverts and past experience has shown me I have zero interest in those people.

You tell me how a women would react if you told her you had never dated before?