Pfizer says early analysis shows its Covid-19 vaccine is more than 90% effective

[Happy Lemming]

"Pfizer says early analysis shows its Covid-19 vaccine is more than 90% effective"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/09/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-effective/index.html

[Weezy1973]

Looks like a vaccine is getting close and likely will be ready by the end of the year. Although it will take awhile to produce enough to vaccinate the global population, this is certainly exciting news as life will slowly be getting back to normal...

 

In the meantime, social distancing, hand washing, wearing masks etc. still necessary, but I’m still pretty excited about the news!

[elaine567]

The big problem is it needs to be transported and stored at -78 degrees C.
Logistically a bit of a nightmare, I guess.

They also do not yet know if t will work in the elderly or the vulnerable, who have been highlighted as the first in line to get the vaccine.

At least we now know it is possible to make a vaccine against Coronavirus.

[Fletch Lives]

So if it's so good, why is it not available yet? It sounds promising, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[pepperbird2]

I'd still like to know how, when the normal vaccine development cycle is measured in years, a drug company could possibly make any claim their vaccine is safe this quickly.

What are the rates of side effects?

[Happy Lemming]

I can only speak for myself, but when it becomes available (for me to receive it), I'll be in line to get my shot. 

I'm not worried about the side effects. 

I got my flu shot a few days back, my arm was sore for two days and I had a real bad headache, small price to pay to avoid the flu.

 

[QuietRiot]

On 11/10/2020 at 6:10 PM, Happy Lemming said:

I can only speak for myself, but when it becomes available (for me to receive it), I'll be in line to get my shot. 

I'm not worried about the side effects. 

I got my flu shot a few days back, my arm was sore for two days and I had a real bad headache, small price to pay to avoid the flu.

 

Yeah, and when I hear how that's the reason that people WON'T get the flu shot, well, just rather petty.

[QuietRiot]

On 11/10/2020 at 9:36 AM, Fletch Lives said:

So if it's so good, why is it not available yet? It sounds promising, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Um...because it's a process. That's why. 

[elaine567]

On 11/10/2020 at 6:18 PM, pepperbird2 said:

What are the rates of side effects?

That will be revealed once the full details are published.
These now made available  are just interim results and analyses.. 

"Study enrolled 43,538 participants, with 42% having diverse backgrounds, and no serious safety concerns have been observed; Safety and additional efficacy data continue to be collected."

Nothing will happen until all the results are available and have been analysed and the vaccine has passed the usual official scrutiny that every medication has to go through.

[Wiseman2]

This is a cross your fingers but don't hold your breath situation.

We all want it over to get back to somewhat normal. 

This virus is like a moving target. It will still take a while to see the efficacy and long term results.

[Miss Clavel]

On 11/10/2020 at 1:18 PM, pepperbird2 said:

I'd still like to know how, when the normal vaccine development cycle is measured in years, a drug company could possibly make any claim their vaccine is safe this quickly.

What are the rates of side effects?

im going to wait. first, i  think i had covid in feb and second, i don't have much hope for a vaccine that needs to be kept way below freezing and requires two doses.

also, im reading about DNA or RHna? and this vaccine has that? im going to wait, not that i have a choice, for the one that is nearer in contents to the ones we have already received, like polio and chicken pox. 

[serial muse]

1 hour ago, Miss Clavel said:

im going to wait. first, i  think i had covid in feb and second, i don't have much hope for a vaccine that needs to be kept way below freezing and requires two doses.

also, im reading about DNA or RHna? and this vaccine has that? im going to wait, not that i have a choice, for the one that is nearer in contents to the ones we have already received, like polio and chicken pox. 

It's an mRNA vaccine, which, yeah, is basically a new frontier in vaccine development. Old school vaccines use dead or very weak virus to stimulate your immune system to produce antibodies, like polio (dead) or chicken pox/MMR (weak). Gene-based vaccines like mRNA basically are a more targeted way to do the same thing. Instead of the whole virus, scientists put synthesized genetic material from the virus into the vaccine to get your body to produce an immune response. 

The problem with using the more old-school approach is that it isn't likely to be as effective against this virus. There's a good explanation here: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2770485 but the upshot is that this style of vaccine takes the most efficient advantage of your body's immune system and is able to recruit T cells to help in the fight in a way that the other vaccines can't. (That link also explains why an mRNA vaccine might have an advantage over other types of gene-based vaccines, like a DNA vaccine, if anyone's interested in the gory details; basically it's just faster at getting to work.)

I understand the concern because it is so new...but that's where these Phase 3 trials come in. I think there's still testing to be done but the fact that the Pfizer vaccine has shown no serious side effects so far in anyone in the trial is pretty encouraging!

I'm also concerned about the rollout though. Your corner CVS isn't going to have the wherewithal to store vaccine in dry ice, plus the fact that it's a two-shot vaccine just complicates things. I think it'll be many months before most people would get vaccinated, even if they begin administering by the end of the year. 

Still...it's a light at the end of the tunnel, which we all sorely need. 

[elaine567]

Yes there may be some  things to iron out, but at least it is a vaccine that appears to work.
A coronavirus vaccine has always up till now eluded researchers. hence why there has never been a vaccine for any of the other of coronaviruses that infect humans.

Quote

There are currently seven coronaviruses known to infect humans (Figure). Four of them cause mild to moderate disease. More specifically, HCoV-OC43, HCoV-HKU1 and HCoV-229E cause common colds, and severe lower respiratory tract infections in the youngest and oldest age groups, while HCoV-NL63 is an important cause of (pseudo) croup and bronchiolitis in children [2]. The other three cause more severe and even fatal disease and have emerged more recently (in the last 20 years): SARS-CoV responsible for the Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) in 2002, MERS-CoV the Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) in 2012 and SARS-CoV-2, identified with a cluster of pneumonia cases in Wuhan, China in late 2019 [3,4]
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/latest-evidence/coronaviruses

.

[MrPlop]

You guys do realize this is gonna be an annual thing right?

[elaine567]

9 minutes ago, MrPlop said:

You guys do realize this is gonna be an annual thing right?

and...

[MrPlop]

Just now, elaine567 said:

and...

and I don't think that many people will follow up on an annual vaccine, many don't on an yearly flu shot.

[elaine567]

Just now, MrPlop said:

and I don't think that many people will follow up on an annual vaccine, many don't on an yearly flu shot.

They will if they scared enough, or it is deemed necessary in order for life to get back into some sort of "normality."
Or if those vaccinated can enjoy greater freedoms than those unvaccinated...

[MrPlop]

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

They will if they scared enough, or it is deemed necessary in order for life to get back into some sort of "normality."
Or if those vaccinated can enjoy greater freedoms than those unvaccinated...

But that's not how people think, at least not in western society much less in the U.S. I can personally tell you I haven't gotten a flu shot in almost 8 years, not because I don't believe in vaccines, not because I don't understand what herd immunity is, not because I'm not "scared" of the flu but because I'm afraid a small viral charge will have more side effects than what I go through every time I get sick twice or three times a year. So that being the case, will you force everyone to vaccinate? What about the ones that don't? they can't be in public areas? are you required to carry with you some sort of vaccine record? Is that infringing on people's rights? Where will you get an annual budget to vaccinate everyone?

[elaine567]

I am afraid needs must, or are we going to be permanently in this mess.
 

[MrPlop]

2 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I am afraid needs must, or are we going to be permanently in this mess.
 

I personally think two different approaches can be taken:
-Make it "user friendly" in the sense that getting a covid-19 shot can be as simple as walking into your local pharmacy/store and walk out in 15 mins. Throw some sort of incentive in there, I don't know what. Obviously massive infrastructure is needed for this, temporary establishments every year around "covid season".
-Force everyone to do it, make records public so we can "shame" those who don't do it. Imagine the backlash.
Just by seeing how people are following masks guidelines it should give you a sense what to expect when the vaccine becomes available.

[QuietRiot]

17 minutes ago, MrPlop said:

But that's not how people think, at least not in western society much less in the U.S. I can personally tell you I haven't gotten a flu shot in almost 8 years, not because I don't believe in vaccines, not because I don't understand what herd immunity is, not because I'm not "scared" of the flu but because I'm afraid a small viral charge will have more side effects than what I go through every time I get sick twice or three times a year. So that being the case, will you force everyone to vaccinate? What about the ones that don't? they can't be in public areas? are you required to carry with you some sort of vaccine record? Is that infringing on people's rights? Where will you get an annual budget to vaccinate everyone?

The silver lining to this, it is understandable that not everyone will get a vaccine, short of their employers making them do so, but...for those who are getting the vaccine, this vaccination will trigger a herd immunity should a certain percentage of the population get the vaccine.

[Happy Lemming]

5 minutes ago, MrPlop said:

-Make it "user friendly" in the sense that getting a covid-19 shot can be as simple as walking into your local pharmacy/store and walk out in 15 mins.

When I got my flu shot I was in and out within 3-5 minutes.  I made my appointment at my local CVS on-line, showed up, gave them my insurance card, they drew the shot, swabbed my upper arm with an alcohol wipe, and gave me my shot. And I left.  Done and Done.

If CVS can duplicate that efficiency for delivering the Covid-19 vaccine, I'll have no complaints.  Sign me up, and stick my arm.

[MrPlop]

20 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

The silver lining to this, it is understandable that not everyone will get a vaccine, short of their employers making them do so, but...for those who are getting the vaccine, this vaccination will trigger a herd immunity should a certain percentage of the population get the vaccine.

We'll just have to convince more than 50% of the population to get it 🤣
This is what I meant with an yearly thing, people will have to realize covid is here to stay and integrate it into a part of our lives
 

12 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

When I got my flu shot I was in and out within 3-5 minutes.  I made my appointment at my local CVS on-line, showed up, gave them my insurance card, they drew the shot, swabbed my upper arm with an alcohol wipe, and gave me my shot. And I left.  Done and Done.

If CVS can duplicate that efficiency for delivering the Covid-19 vaccine, I'll have no complaints.  Sign me up, and stick my arm.

This is what I was referring to when I meant efficiency. And free! I lost my insurance along with my job.🤣 Make is so as not leaving any room for excuses.

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by MrPlop

[serial muse]

1 hour ago, MrPlop said:

But that's not how people think, at least not in western society much less in the U.S. I can personally tell you I haven't gotten a flu shot in almost 8 years, not because I don't believe in vaccines, not because I don't understand what herd immunity is, not because I'm not "scared" of the flu but because I'm afraid a small viral charge will have more side effects than what I go through every time I get sick twice or three times a year. So that being the case, will you force everyone to vaccinate? What about the ones that don't? they can't be in public areas? are you required to carry with you some sort of vaccine record? Is that infringing on people's rights? Where will you get an annual budget to vaccinate everyone?

I think there are a lot assumptions in here that make this kind of unanswerable. But, some thoughts:

1) we don't actually know if it'll become seasonal, and whether the virus will mutate to a less deadly form

2) not sure what you mean by "a small viral charge" but people don't get the flu from a flu vaccine. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/misconceptions.htm Not sure if you receive other vaccinations but as I said in my earlier email, both weak and dead virus vaccines are used for all sorts of things, from polio to chicken pox. Flu is no different. There isn't a good reason not to get one, and there's no viral charge from getting one.

3) that said, people are weird about it and there's no reason to think they won't be equally weird about a COVID19 vaccine, and probably much more so given that it's been converted into a political issue. I don't think we can get to herd immunity with just 50% of the population; you need a much higher percentage, at least 70% I think. If it does become a seasonal thing, then I hope that, first of all, wearing masks become depoliticized and restored to the realm of common sense. And second, of course people won't be required to carry papers, and people won't be forced to vaccinate. However, if there are large outbreaks in the future, there may be periodic episodes of lockdown, particularly if the masking and social distancing remains politicized, and people refuse to take the vaccine. I would imagine that kids who refuse to get the vaccine might also not be able to attend public schools. 

4) As for who pays - I'd imagine it'll be much like it is for the "free" flu shot. Insurance companies find a way to make you pay, and as universal healthcare remains a pipe dream in the US, that's how it'll be for the foreseeable future. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by serial muse

[QuietRiot]

45 minutes ago, serial muse said:

I think there are a lot assumptions in here that make this kind of unanswerable. But, some thoughts:

1) we don't actually know if it'll become seasonal, and whether the virus will mutate to a less deadly form

2) not sure what you mean by "a small viral charge" but people don't get the flu from a flu vaccine. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/misconceptions.htm Not sure if you receive other vaccinations but as I said in my earlier email, both weak and dead virus vaccines are used for all sorts of things, from polio to chicken pox. Flu is no different. There isn't a good reason not to get one, and there's no viral charge from getting one.

3) that said, people are weird about it and there's no reason to think they won't be equally weird about a COVID19 vaccine, and probably much more so given that it's been converted into a political issue. I don't think we can get to herd immunity with just 50% of the population; you need a much higher percentage, at least 70% I think. If it does become a seasonal thing, then I hope that, first of all, wearing masks become depoliticized and restored to the realm of common sense. And second, of course people won't be required to carry papers, and people won't be forced to vaccinate. However, if there are large outbreaks in the future, there may be periodic episodes of lockdown, particularly if the masking and social distancing remains politicized, and people refuse to take the vaccine. I would imagine that kids who refuse to get the vaccine might also not be able to attend public schools. 

4) As for who pays - I'd imagine it'll be much like it is for the "free" flu shot. Insurance companies find a way to make you pay, and as universal healthcare remains a pipe dream in the US, that's how it'll be for the foreseeable future. 

Although, people won't be forced to vaccinate, organizations, companies, employers, will require you to take it as a condition upon being a part of their group. Ticketmaster already has put it out there that you cannot buy tickets to an event, until you've provided a Covid vaccination proof. Makes sense, since it is a crowded event.

So if you're a live music junkie, you may want to get the shot.

Edited November 12, 2020 by QuietRiot