I think my wife is cheating on me with a coworker

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Thank you all, a lot of truth in your posts. We spoke a lot last night and this morning. I will be as short as possible since this is already turning into a novel

I agree that her outburst in front of kids was a horrible thing to do and I told her everything I had on my mind about that. How damaging for girls it was and how I was disappointed that she couldn't hold it together when we agreed on one of us leaving if it becomes too much. She was just so broken that she didn't even fight back. It was so sad

When she calmed down I told her we need to speak to kids before putting them to bed and then we should talk. We set them down and explained that mommy did something that hurt daddy, she is very sorry, she's sad she did it and that's why mommy was crying today. They took it well, not sure the younger one (3y) fully understands. One of my wife's friends is a school psychologist so we are calling her on Monday to help us navigate this.

 

When kids fell asleep I told my W I want her to stay here tonight and I won't back down until she tells me what's on her mind. I asked her straight away if there is anything new to confess. There isn't, when it comes to her A i know everything and there wasn't anyone else.

It took me some time but I managed to get out of her what hapenned at the ZOO. Her mom told her yesterday morning before she left that I would be better off without her so when we spent the day together like a family she felt like all the weight of what she did fell on her at the same time and when I showed her all the affection I did that day it simply became too much to bear.

We came to a conclusion that neither one of us can make it without a help so we agreed on IC for both of us. Her first session is on Thursday and I am calling the office tomorrow to see if there is a possibility of me joining or having a separate sessions starting as soon as possible.

She admits me not giving her my decision is crushing her. Even though she knows it's probably too soon and it's absolutely not her place to force me to make a decision. Shes also afraid it would push me away even more. 

So we spoke about a future and I decided to take the divorce off a table to give us a chance to work through it. She's moving back into our house next week because I want to get her out of her mom's grasp. It's not a good idea let her stay there in a state she's in now and I want to have her here in case she did anything stupid. I don't think she's suicidal but I am not taking any chances. Call it whatever you want, codependency, white knight syndrome, whatever. I don't really care.

Please don't take it as her guilting me into it with her tears. That's not the case. I love my wife, I truly believe she loves me and we are not throwing away those amazing 13 years without a fight.

We are staying in separate bedrooms for any foreseeable future, but it's still a big step in what I hope is a right direction.

[petee]

Hang in there, it's the worst time of the year so that will be exacerbating things.

There is absolutely no rush to do anything, good or bad.

As a human being once you make a mistake, then it's done. You can't get this wrong, because of those innocent children, so stick as you are. We are not all machines that can just splurge a solution, we multi-think and have to fight knee jerk solutions.

I don't know you, but you seem a level headed human being that did not deserve any of this (nobody does), but you also seem a decent bloke that won't rush a life changing decision that affects everybody.

Hang in there, there's a saying I live by, 'my worst day in freedom is better than my best day in captivity'. If you can apply the analogy here it may just help you. It's dank weather today, but in May when we move into summer it will be sunny and warm...again, whilst this is life changing, it is not life ending.  You will get through this, and you have that mental processing that makes me think you will get it just right, or better.

 

[Pottering About]

HER MOTHER SAID THAT? 

You made good decisions today

The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy
 

 

 

[usa1ah]

23 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Should have stayed at home, the ZOO trip was a disaster.

Thing went great at first, wife seemed to be in great mood and happy, kids were happy, we made some chitchat and managed to avoid any serious talks. It was great.

Then it started raining a bit and I gave her my coat.

No idea why but she completely broke down sobbing and apologizing over and over again, all the good stuff.

In front of kids and everyone around.

It was horrible. She asked if we can go home so we left in a hurry and kids are confused as hell and disappointed.

I couldn't get out of her what is wrong but I told her I am not letting it go until she tells me what the hell was that. She even called herself "a c.nt" few times. She never in her life did that.

I hope it doesn't mean there is more she hasn't told me. It's the only thing I can think about now.

She now locked herself in a guest room and refuses to let me in. I can hear her crying and I have absoulutely no idea what should I do. Help me

It could have just been the fact that you showed kindness to her by giving her your coat. She is having a hard time knowing what she going to lose if you leave. I really think she is about to lose it mentally. 
 

With this said, do not rush a decision on going or staying until you are ready to do so. 

[usa1ah]

I really think she needs to see someone. She is breaking down in public and apologizing again doesn’t sound good. True remorse for what she has done, yes. Healthy for her mentally or physically, no. 

[usa1ah]

Stress and depression effect everyone differently. It sometimes becomes to hard to control the reaction that results. The suicide rate shows this fact sadly. Unfortunately at times children witness these episodes and sometimes are the victims. OP I think has a better picture of the true state of things going on. There are somethings you just can’t fake, I don’t believe the break down at the zoo was. 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

On 12/12/2020 at 4:37 PM, WorldsSecondGreatestLover said:

Mr Flibble I want to share an idea with you.  Let me digress first:

On reddit some weeks ago there was an infidelity story that started similar to yours (but ended badly).  In it, the betrayed husband became aware that his wife was flirting with a manager at work before it had gotten serious.  Over a couple months, he repeatedly soft-confronted his wife, not quite letting her know what he knew, but making it clear "something was wrong" and giving her opportunities over and over, to stop it.  She never did, she eventually went physical and he served her papers immediately.

But here's the point I wanted to make: Husband and wife are supposed to be of one mind.  When one starts to stray or fall off the path, we RELY on our other half to bring us back to straight.  When the relationship is failing (as above) nothing can be done to straighten things out.

In your case, your wife's self esteem problems were beginning to throw her off the path.  But as a good husband, you noticed and immediately brought it to bear. 

This is the "relationship immune system" working as intended. 

Since she never did end up getting bedded (and really-- this is a LONG time to stand against a skilled player), I think you have a situation where she was desperately trying to keep straight, and you brought her back into the fold.

I think your circumstances represent a marriage working as intended.  She was quite literally "on her way crazy" and you did notice, and brought her back to sanity.  Other guy is a parasite that looks for people at a tipping point and uses them for his own pleasure.  But your relationship immune system detected the threat and removed it.  Now, as always, there's some scarring, but I expect the relationship can survive-- because she is too into the marriage to REALLY betray, and you are too into the marriage to miss the danger signs.

Great post, I like this idea of relationship immune system. But I have to disagree - it didn't work as intended since my wife didn't do her part. Instead of stepping up to pretect our marriage she let the intruder in. I hope we can recover still

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

6 hours ago, Pottering About said:

HER MOTHER SAID THAT? 

You made good decisions today

The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy
 

 

 

Yes, she has been downright cruel to her at times. No idea where this comes from, I always thought they have a great relationship. I had a small argument with MIL when I told her W is moving back home. 

[Buffer]

Good call, good communication, good family protection. Good luck. 
One day at a time. 
Buffer

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

And something weird hapenned this evening.

I just got out of shower and my wife walked in. I went for a towel and she was evidently surprised I did that and asked my why am I covering myself. Told her being naked around her feels weird. We haven't spoken a word to each other since.

Oh, and she came to remind me tomorrow morning we have an STDs test. Like I could forget.

[MickeyBill]

Was that just your natural reaction, didn't think about it?

[WorldsSecondGreatestLover]

3 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

But I have to disagree - it didn't work as intended since my wife didn't do her part. Instead of stepping up to pretect our marriage she let the intruder in.

But you are also part of the immune system-- while she was resisting, you detected the foreign body and killed it.  Neither of us are in isolation in these kinds of things.  Years ago I started to drink a little too much during a health crisis with one of our children.  My wife activated and brought me back to straight.  Another time my wife began a friendship with a divorced woman with toxic, sexually-evangelical tendencies.  I activated and brought her back to straight-- I personally believe this one was a little close, because the critical event was going to be a bachelorette party weekend.

Your wife went too far, with the make-out session.  That's why I said there was scarring.  That's why what you're doing is reasonable.  Your response right now is building a wall against future threats.  Some posters have said you were being cruel, but you're only being cruel if it's not ultimately intended to bring her back to straight.

She as an "individual" had a failing, but the two of you as a "marriage" did not, yet.

If you read many more infidelity stories online, you might give her a little credit for resisting a strong player long enough for you to intervene-- I'm not joking when I say if she wasn't strong he'd have closed the deal somewhere between two weeks and two months.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

10 hours ago, MickeyBill said:

Was that just your natural reaction, didn't think about it?

Yes, it was. I never hapenned before but I guess all this affected me more than I realize. Now I again question my decision to move her back in. 

 

5 hours ago, S2B said:

Well... you let her move back in - so why are you surprised she is already not respecting boundaries?

you said money isn’t an issue - why hasn’t your wife rented a place to stay for a long while? She hasn’t given you hardly a moment to think clearly.

and now she is walking in when you’re naked?  Man, she is figuring you are caving in... to her manipulation.

get her a place to live so you have the space to decide what’s right for your future.

I don't think it was deliberate, it's hard to stop doing things you were doing for last 13 years without thinking. But we had a dicussion about boundaries and it won't happen again.

We are going through our options when it comes to living arrangements and she agreed on moving into her own appartment if this living together proves to be a wrong idea

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

And we got back from an STD check. Probably the most humiliating experience of my life. And her's too. Results should be pretty fast and DNA test kits should arrive this afternoon. Today's a rough day but we fight on

[colingrant]

The balance between decency and distancing baffles betrayed spouses and even posters. You're doing perfectly well in this area in my opinion. 

[DKT3]

In my opinion,  you've moved her back in so she is in until you decide stay or divorce.  This in and out stuff is confusing to children  next time she is out it should be final.

[Wiseman2]

23 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

And we got back from an STD check. Probably the most humiliating experience of my life. And her's too. Results should be pretty fast and DNA test kits should arrive this afternoon. Today's a rough day but we fight on

Your attorney advised mail order DNA kits to prove they're your kids? Very strange since your not paying child support anyway. Your country must have vastly different legal processes compared to North America or Europe.

Did your doctor or therapists advise STD testing? What if they didn't have STDs or used condoms? You're not ruling anything out.

It's sad your kids are being subjected to this massive instability and indecision. No less watching their mother being kicked out, worn down and witnessing all this fall out.

 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

1 hour ago, colingrant said:

The balance between decency and distancing baffles betrayed spouses and even posters. You're doing perfectly well in this area in my opinion. 

Thank you, but I don't think I did well to be honest.

 

1 hour ago, DKT3 said:

In my opinion,  you've moved her back in so she is in until you decide stay or divorce.  This in and out stuff is confusing to children  next time she is out it should be final.

Yes and no. I hope we will be able to avoid divorcing, but you are right - if she moves out it will be permanent.

54 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Your attorney advised mail order DNA kits to prove they're your kids? Very strange since your not paying child support anyway. Your country must have vastly different legal processes compared to North America or Europe.

Did your doctor or therapists advise STD testing? What if they didn't have STDs or used condoms? You're not ruling anything out.

It's sad your kids are being subjected to this massive instability and indecision. No less watching their mother being kicked out, worn down and witnessing all this fall out.

 

No, my attorney gave me a legal advice on divorce, assets and kids and gave me a draft of a divorce petition. STD tests and paternity tests were my idea. What hapenned obviously made me question everything and I hope it will bring me at least some peace of mind.

Agree on kids, it's hard to not resent my wife for putting us through this. But actions have consequences

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

STD tests and paternity tests were my idea.

NO lawyer would have ever suggested those.
Paternity tests are a can of worms in so many different ways.
You are now telling your wife you suspect she has been unfaithful for your whole marriage.
Do you honestly think that or is this just more punishment? 
Yes atm she will agree to everything, but once the dust settles that will rankle.
The fact you were prepared to walk away from these kids will hit home.
You will only love them IF they are yours.
You actively tried to prove they were not yours...
And whilst understandable on one level, I guess you just inserted another big wedge into your marriage.

Your wife likely had grievances and resentments, that is why she cheated.
It is why most women cheat.
"Men"  mostly cheat for excitement and "extra" and variety or just pure sex, and "women" mostly cheat because they perceive themselves to be unhappy with the man they have.
Whilst you want and feel you need your pound of flesh, you need to consider what acquiring it will cost you long term.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

. STD tests and paternity tests were my idea. 

Be grateful even though she wasn't a conscientious wife, that she is a conscientious mother.

Can you imagine if she told the kids one day all the unnessary hell they had to go through including tests questioning whether you are thier father?

She also isn't inflicting adult blame on toddlers. With your anger and rage,  and zero legal and professional advice.

Step back and trust her maternal instincts. She doesn't seem to want to inflict all your marital problems on them.

It's curious that something as important as 4 people's lives is dealt with in this miserly, uninformed DIY fashion.

Surely a curbside consult with a psychologist friend is not your  substitute for this damaged marriage all the damages being done to the kids careening recklessly through the whole thing.

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Wiseman2

[Uruktopi]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Your attorney advised mail order DNA kits to prove they're your kids? 

Did your doctor or therapists advise STD testing? What if they didn't have STDs or used condoms? You're not ruling anything out.

 

 

I wouldn´t do a paternity tests on my own daughters. The potential emotional impact of this would overweight by far the eventual evidence of infidelity (which would the only reason to even think on it). Exception made, of course, in their own benefit if health is involved. 

My bond with my daughters is too precious, no matter biology. But this is my only personal conviction and I can understand if others need it, no blame.

STD are another kind of fish. They may be transmited even when condoms were used, not only by PIV and even by people with no symptoms, undiagnosed and/or when STD´s have a very long latency of years. The health and life risk is far (far, far) over the highly overvalued "privacy" and individual authonomy considerations.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Uruktopi

[usa1ah]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

NO lawyer would have ever suggested those.
Paternity tests are a can of worms in so many different ways.
You are now telling your wife you suspect she has been unfaithful for your whole marriage.
Do you honestly think that or is this just more punishment? 
Yes atm she will agree to everything, but once the dust settles that will rankle.
The fact you were prepared to walk away from these kids will hit home.
You will only love them IF they are yours.
You actively tried to prove they were not yours...
And whilst understandable on one level, I guess you just inserted another big wedge into your marriage.

Your wife likely had grievances and resentments, that is why she cheated.
It is why most women cheat.
"Men"  mostly cheat for excitement and "extra" and variety or just pure sex, and "women" mostly cheat because they perceive themselves to be unhappy with the man they have.
Whilst you want and feel you need your pound of flesh, you need to consider what acquiring it will cost you long term.

That is the problem with cheating. The betrayed spouse questions everything once they find out. The problem with men is that there is no guarantee that the children their spouse delivered is his. He only at that point has the faith that his wife never cheated. Once that faith is destroyed, everything he has believed about his wife is gone. Even if his kids are really his own. 
 

There are many stories out there where 23 and me has proven infidelity. Something meant to be fun for the family has destroyed them. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by usa1ah

[usa1ah]

If having to take a DNA test to prove you have been faithful until they cheated shouldn’t rankle anyone. The cheater is the one that destroyed the trust not the betrayed spouse. 
 

This is really a guy thing. We only have the word of our wives that the kids are our own. Once she cheats her words are meaningless. 

[Acacia98]

11 hours ago, S2B said:

Well... you let her move back in - so why are you surprised she is already not respecting boundaries?

you said money isn’t an issue - why hasn’t your wife rented a place to stay for a long while? She hasn’t given you hardly a moment to think clearly.

and now she is walking in when you’re naked?  Man, she is figuring you are caving in... to her manipulation.

get her a place to live so you have the space to decide what’s right for your future.

I feel like when she suggested the zoo outing, the boundaries were already getting hazy.

 

[SilentKajun]

Mr. Flibble, I'm a long time lurker on the various infidelity sites and have gone through the pain in my first marriage.  I rarely post but I feel compelled to chime in on your story.  Having read hundreds if not thousands of such stories, I have to say I think you're  doing the right thing by giving your wife a chance at R.  

Believe me, I'm usually in the "burn the witch" camp when it comes to infidelity.  Most stories I read are so disheartening due to the lack of remorse and lack of effort to repair a marriage by the WS.  I don't think that's the case with your wife.  In fact I believe that she may be one of the most remorseful WS that I've read about.  Obviously, you have to do what feels right for you, but I think your marriage has all the ingredients for a successful R.  You deserve praise for at least seriously considering R.  

Whatever happens, you have my best wishes.