I think my wife is cheating on me with a coworker

[princessaurora]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

This thing reads a bit like a mystery novel.

It really does. It's crazy how much the story  has waxed and waned. I just hope the worse is over for OP. 

[Buffer]

Why the false accusation from SH?

One day at a time.

Buffer

[merrmeade]

31 minutes ago, Buffer said:

Why the false accusation from SH?

One day at a time.

Buffer

His GF had found the charge on a credit card statement. Since the GF already knew about Mr. Flibble’s wife, he just let the confession name her instead of whoever it was. Looking out for #1.

You were saved only by a hair’sbreadth.

[Zona]

Mr. Flibble,

Good news about the hotel tryst that never happened. However, even if your wife never had PIV sex with him, she still has issues she needs to deal with, first and foremost, developing rock solid boundaries for when she gets hit on, as most women are.

You will never know what would have happened if you never found out and confronted her. Over time, these kind of things usually escalate, especially once the line has been crossed sexually (I consider making out and the groping that goes along with it to be sex).

It took my WW's AP almost 2 years to get her into bed. He just never gave up until he got what he wanted. 

My point is be careful about rug sweeping. The hotel hook-up would have been devastating if it did happen, but even if it never went that far, what happened is still cheating. She needs to completely own her actions and figure out her sh*t. It should be a big wakeup call to her that she almost destroyed her marriage for a guy who was just a pig, hooking up with as many women as he could. Your wife would have just been another notch on the belt.

Great that you cut out the facilitating friend from your lives.

Best of luck and thanks for the update.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Zona

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

7 hours ago, princessaurora said:

So, SH's girlfriend has said he's cheated on her in the past, he was messing with your wife, and apparently at least one other person. Wow, this guy is something else. He seems skilled at playing women. 

I think there were many more. I don't get it, I wouldn't call he handsome or anything. Everything about him screams average. He must be great talker or something.

6 hours ago, princessaurora said:

It really does. It's crazy how much the story  has waxed and waned. I just hope the worse is over for OP. 

i hope you are right. I think seeing the paperwork and realizing I could really divorce her was the wake up call she needed. It's up to her now.

2 hours ago, Buffer said:

Why the false accusation from SH?

One day at a time.

Buffer

See Merrmeade's reply. I think he panicked and tried to cover his own ass by puting it on the only affair his ex could prove. Or maybe he tried to blow up our life. No idea, don't really care.
 

 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

1 hour ago, Zona said:

Mr. Flibble,

Good news about the hotel tryst that never happened. However, even if your wife never had PIV sex with him, she still has issues she needs to deal with, first and foremost, developing rock solid boundaries for when she gets hit on, as most women are.

You will never know what would have happened if you never found out and confronted her. Over time, these kind of things usually escalate, especially once the line has been crossed sexually (I consider making out and the groping that goes along with it to be sex).

It took my WW's AP almost 2 years to get her into bed. He just never gave up until he got what he wanted. 

My point is be careful about rug sweeping. The hotel hook-up would have been devastating if it did happen, but even if it never went that far, what happened is still cheating. She needs to completely own her actions and figure out her sh*t. It should be a big wakeup call to her that she almost destroyed her marriage for a guy who was just a pig, hooking up with as many women as he could. Your wife would have just been another notch on the belt.

Great that you cut out the facilitating friend from your lives.

Best of luck and thanks for the update.

I 100% agree. Even though there was no sex she was still having an affair. She was hit on before, but this was the first time she responded. She needs to find ou why she did that. 
 

i know what would happen if I didn't intervene - they would have sex. There is no point in sugarcoating it, It was only a matter of time. Yes, my wife backed off a lot of times but I think she would sleep with him. She's hurt by this, she would never sleep with him!, but I am not stupid.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

1 hour ago, S2B said:

Ok, so now what has SHE offered to DO to help fix herself? 
has she looked for a new job? An apartment? Started individual therapy every week?

what the heck is she doing that could actually help you heal?

side note...having her continually spend the night at the house with you is like rewarding her bad behavior right now. Sure, she’s tired - have her go to her parents!

she really has had tiny consequences. Heck, she now doesn’t even have to work. She still has access to the family money right? Ya, she’s actually looking like she’s being rewarded for cheating on you.

make her move out for a long while - she needs consequences that are SO painful she won’t consider cheating again. And in light of the new info... yes, she was still cheating on you and lying right to your face for a long time.

she also still thinks (knows) you’re a pushover.

I am waiting for her list. That's still WIP after yesterday's fight. New job, appartment and counseling should be on that list. She spent here 3 night out of last 10, so I wouldn't call that continual. If you call that rewarding her it's just nonsense.

It's still too soon nut I think the consequences of her actions are huge

- she destroyed her 10y marriage and I am not sure if it's possible to repair it

- she absolutely loves our kids and it's killing her she can't spend all her free time with them

- she's moving out of her dream house

- she lost her job which she loved. It's possible she won't be able to have that position ever again

- she doesn't like it when people talk about her and trust me, news travel fast. I bet everybody at her former job now knows exactly what hapenned

 

Yes, she still has access to our joint accounts but there is not that much and she hasn't pulled a dike out of them.

Btw what do you mean by

And in light of the new info... yes, she was still cheating on you and lying right to your face for a long time.

?

And if she saw me as a pushover (I don't think so) I showed her yesterday that's not the case.

 

[Wiseman2]

Is your wife really intimidated by DIY paperwork?  It seems like she may see through all the posturing and bluffing, especially now that you accused her of a hotel tryst based on hearsay when in fact You were with her.

It's unfortunate so many other people have been dragged into this, yet the two people you need most... A marriage therapist and an attorney were never consulted.

It's sad to see all these extraneous detours and still, the damages are piling up on both ends. Her lies/indiscretions and your  tactical mistakes.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Don't know if you don't read my post or I didn't make myself clear, but that uncontested divorce petition was prepeared by my lawyer. Bu it doesn't look that complicated, I could have done myself. And I don't understand why you think I was bluffing. I wasn't. I was dead serious I will ask for divorce if she went to that hotel room with him. 

[Wiseman2]

39 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Don't know if you don't read my post or I didn't make myself clear, but that uncontested divorce petition was prepeared by my lawyer. Bu it doesn't look that complicated, I could have done myself. And I don't understand why you think I was bluffing. I wasn't. I was dead serious I will ask for divorce if she went to that hotel room with him. 

Sorry, forgot you are not in the US. In the US divorce papers are officially served, not printed out and discussed at the kitchen table.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Yes, it's not that dramatic here. You can either file together if it's uncontested or file by yourself if it's one sided. 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Haha, our "friend" came by for a visit. Her husband packed a bag and left. She asked if he hasn't been here. I just closed the door on her. Looks like she was really cheating on him

[Zona]

41 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Haha, our "friend" came by for a visit. Her husband packed a bag and left. She asked if he hasn't been here. I just closed the door on her. Looks like she was really cheating on him

I'm sure she was cheating based on her behavior and attitude. Most likely he had his suspicions, but you telling him about her encouraging and facilitating an affair for a friend blew it wide open.

[mark clemson]

17 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

We later called his ex together. My wife started to apologize but was cut short in a few not that nice words. Can't blame her. It was deserved. SH's ex thinks my wife is lying but I know where she was that whole day and night. With me. So I told her it absolutely wasn't my wife and I think the guy just didn't get what he wanted so he found a new object. I asked her if there is any way I could help but she just hang up. This all sucks, I will call her tomorrow to check on her.

Do what you think is right, but I would consider leaving her alone. You informed her there's an OOW, which it's clear you felt a moral obligation to do. Her life has been disrupted and more info may simply cause her additional pain. She's not really your business anymore and you may be doing more harm than good. There are always lots of emotions involved with these things and you never know how the cookie will crumble.

[Watercolors]

1 hour ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Haha, our "friend" came by for a visit. Her husband packed a bag and left. She asked if he hasn't been here. I just closed the door on her. Looks like she was really cheating on him

Glad to hear it. She certainly didn't help your wife when SH came into the picture. In fact, you could say that she manipulated your wife into the exact same situation she is in, so she could have someone to commiserate with (your wife). But now that she's out of your lives, you two can move forward.

And what a relief to have your wife confirm that you were out of town with her and the children for three days, on the date that SH told his g/f he was at a hotel with your wife.
 

7 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

I am waiting for her list. That's still WIP after yesterday's fight. New job, appartment and counseling should be on that list. She spent here 3 night out of last 10, so I wouldn't call that continual. If you call that rewarding her it's just nonsense.

It's still too soon nut I think the consequences of her actions are huge

- she destroyed her 10y marriage and I am not sure if it's possible to repair it

- she absolutely loves our kids and it's killing her she can't spend all her free time with them

- she's moving out of her dream house

- she lost her job which she loved. It's possible she won't be able to have that position ever again

- she doesn't like it when people talk about her and trust me, news travel fast. I bet everybody at her former job now knows exactly what hapenned

 

Yes, she still has access to our joint accounts but there is not that much and she hasn't pulled a dike out of them.

Btw what do you mean by

And in light of the new info... yes, she was still cheating on you and lying right to your face for a long time.

?

And if she saw me as a pushover (I don't think so) I showed her yesterday that's not the case.

 

The three items I bolded are first and foremost the most important for your wife to have. Can she just move in with her parents for now, while she looks for a job, sets up sessions with a counselor before she finds her own apartment?

I agree with you that her actions (despite the 'no sex' with SH) did destroy the marriage and basically ruin her life. But...again...she did that all on her own, of her own volition. You did not force her to have an affair. So, just remember not to take on her guilt as your own, or feel any shame or blame for your wife's choices. She's an adult. She could have just as easily talked to you face to face about whatever "issue" she had, that she justifies as "why" she had her affair with SH. But she didn't. So, that shows a lot of immaturity on her part. She wasn't thinking about you, your children together, or the consequences her actions with SH would have.

The cost of your wife's "myopia" is that she lost everything, and rightly so. She cannot talk her way out of this situation (and don't let her!). And she will try. Oh she will. She will try to bargain with you; try to negotiate; she'll lie more by omitting details or facts to create a scenario where she's just a helpless victim (which she's not). Just stand your ground. Be the stable force for your two children (they'll need it) and keep them at home with you. I hope you can get 100% custody. Having a father who never leaves them, will help your children through this transitional family experience.

[trident_2020]

7 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

I am waiting for her list. That's still WIP after yesterday's fight. New job, appartment and counseling should be on that list.

Still waiting? She's got ONE job..

Don't be too disappointed when her getting an apartment isn't on the list and it never really happens.

 

[mark clemson]

8 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

 know what would happen if I didn't intervene - they would have sex. There is no point in sugarcoating it, It was only a matter of time. Yes, my wife backed off a lot of times but I think she would sleep with him. She's hurt by this, she would never sleep with him!, but I am not stupid.

I think that's not 100% guaranteed, but IS more likely than not. Some people enjoy attention but will only take it to a certain point, but I'm not sure she's one of those. She did get into a car with the guy, so there's that. Dunno.

[Pottering About]

Don’t suppose the “friend “ is another one of SH’s conquests?

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

4 hours ago, Zona said:

I'm sure she was cheating based on her behavior and attitude. Most likely he had his suspicions, but you telling him about her encouraging and facilitating an affair for a friend blew it wide open.

No idea. I think she might. I actually don't know her/him that much. 

 

3 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Do what you think is right, but I would consider leaving her alone. You informed her there's an OOW, which it's clear you felt a moral obligation to do. Her life has been disrupted and more info may simply cause her additional pain. She's not really your business anymore and you may be doing more harm than good. There are always lots of emotions involved with these things and you never know how the cookie will crumble.

I just sent her a text telling her if she wants to speak I am available. She didn't reply. I will wait, she probably has enough of her own problems now.

 

@Watercolors very insightful, thank you.

3 hours ago, trident_2020 said:

Still waiting? She's got ONE job..

Don't be too disappointed when her getting an apartment isn't on the list and it never really happens.

 

I have the list now. It's there. I will post more later when kids are asleep

 

1 hour ago, Pottering About said:

Don’t suppose the “friend “ is another one of SH’s conquests?

She's not. They don't even know each other.

 

[Mrin]

2 hours ago, Pottering About said:

Don’t suppose the “friend “ is another one of SH’s conquests?

Weirdly enough, OW's do not like to share. Probably goes for OM's too unless it is just some pure sex thing. 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Today was a good day.
 

W brought kids back for a night. She took them this morning to her parents to give me some space since I had a lot to do today. Putting myself deep into work helps a little.

Before leaving she told me there is something she would like to give me. It was an envelope.

I won't lie, my first thought was there is more. So I asked her if there is something inside that she hasn't told me before about her affair. It wasn't.

Inside was her list and a decently long letter. I'm afraid it's too personal to be put out here, but screw that.

I want your honest opinion on that. And I feel more comfortable with sharing this with anonymous people on the internet that with my family or friends. 

I tried to rewrite it as best as possible. Again, it's not in english so I tried my best.

OP,

I can't put into words how much I am sorry for what I did to you and our family. It is inexcusable and I will not stop kicking myself over it until I die. You asked me yesterday why I did it and I want to assure you It wasn't anything you did or didn't. It was all me.

You are the best thing that ever hapenned to me and I hurt you in the worst possible way. I destroyed our amazing family because I was selfish and I admit it now - I felt entitled to have fun and flirt and to be free again.

You asked me many times while I was at home with kids if I am happy with how things are and I told you I was. I wasn't. I was just too stupid to admit this to myself, let alone to you. So I let it eat me alive and when I was finaly back at work I did the stupidest thing I could. Instead of defending our marriage against everyone and everything I decided to opened up to some else and shared with him my thought and feelings when it's supposed to be you and only who I share these with.

There were many times when I wanted to tell you everything. I never went through with it because I knew I already hurt you so much you would leave me. I can't believe how selfish I can be sometimes.

I know you don't believe that but I love you, never stopped loving you and never will. I can't believe how I treated you when you first told me about how you feel about this. When you righfuly called me on my horrible behaviour I lied to you, repeatedly, and instead of being honest I lied some more. You and our girls don't deserve any of this and I know it sounds horrible but it hurts me more than you because it was me who did that. There was nothing more you could to do to stop this. I could and I didn't.

The day you left I felt like somebody took my heart out and jumped on it. I can't imagine how you must felt. Again and again, instead of being honest I lied, but it's over now. I want to make one thing clear - now you know absolutely everything. There is nothing you don't know. I didn't realize until yesterday how much you don't trust me after what hapenned. Why should you trust me after what I did? I was stupid. Now I know.

Mom told me today you have a full right to divorce me. It's true, but it still hurts me too much to even think about that. But I know It shouldn't be about me or what I want. It's all about you three. You deserve much better. But if you let me I want to be that better. For you and for our girls.

It would absolutely destroy me, but If divorce is what you want or need I promise I will sign whatever you put in front of me. But I ask you one thing.

Please at least give me until the end of a year to prove to you how much you mean to me and to show you how sorry I am for what I did. I have never in my life regretted anything so much. Let me make this right.

I love you. 

W

 

I cried like a little b.tch just rewriting it. I don't know if it's genuine or if it tells me what I want to hear. And I have no idea how to reply to that, but I know I should.

 

And here is her list:

- I will have all her passwords to phone, e-mail and any SM account she has (I know only about her FB)

- She will delete her Facebook if I want her to

- I can go through her phone anytime I want. I can run any kind of recovery software on it

- I will have full access to her accounts and card transaction history

- I can put GPS tracking on her phone and car

- She will find a new job as soon as possible. Any job

- She will find an apppartment close to our house and move out. SHE will pay for it

- If I want to she's willing to put our house in MY name only

- She will set up an STD test for both of us

- She will DNA test both our kids

- She already has booked skype session with counselor herself

- She will plan a MC for both of us if I am willing to go with her

- She will pay for it out of her pocket

- I can ask her any question. She will respond in full truth even if it will hurt me. If I am nit satisfied we put the question aside and where there is more she's will to go through with a polygraph

 

She wants me to think about the list and to let her know if there is anything I want to add.

I think I need few days to process all this amd give myself some time alone. So I am sorry if I will pull a vanishing act for now. And again, thank you all for your insight.

[MickeyBill]

You are doing very well all things considered. Much further along than some folks are in a year. Take a couple days away from here and from discussing things with your wife. Go quiet with her as you need time to think about everything. I'd suggest hanging out with the kids but then you aren't working on your thoughts, you are caring for them. You need to be on your own , I found a lot of thinking can be done on a lonely car trip.

Her letter IMO is pretty good, the apology part was sort of weak and many wandering spouses say the exact same thing when they are found out.

"You are the best thing that ever hapenned to me and I hurt you in the worst possible way. I destroyed our amazing family because I was selfish and I admit it now - I felt entitled to have fun and flirt and to be free again." 

On these sites people will say that her letter was "all about her" with "too many I" and not enough about you. But it was a letter from her explaining what she feels and will try to do.  There is more digging into her justifying and lying but it is a good start. She need to tell you and herself why was ok for her to have affair, which would have a very very good chance of ending your marriage? Throw it all way for fun, making out and some strange? More than "I was selfish". 

One step, one day at a time brother. 

[Watercolors]

Meh. Her letter is smoke and mirrors. Notice: she didn't explain to you why she cheated. Her profuse apologizing was meant to distract you from having to come clean as to the real reason she chose to cheat on you. She defamed her own character, she groveled, she told you that she loved you. But nowhere in her letter, do I see any genuine remorse from her. I don't see a confession which is what you deserve and what you need. But she refuses to give you that. You have to ask yourself: why?

Doesn't matter if you "police" her every move. She still has not confessed to you the real reason she cheated. That should be your #1 goal. Find out the real reason she cheated. All those platitudes in her letter are worthless and disingenuous because they are meant to distract you from holding her truly accountable for her behavior. She's gotten away with cheating and she'll do it again because she thinks she doesn't have to come clean.

If she were truly remorseful, she would have written a letter where she explained her reasons for cheating on you: "I cheated on you for reasons x,y, and z." You have to ask yourself why she is not mature enough to do that with you, her husband. Her list is also smoke and mirrors. Common sense, some of those items are, but realistically, she has to EXPLAIN her reasons for cheating before you can trust or believe her again.

Words are but wind. Actions speaker louder than words.

I don't buy it as a genuine apology for her actions. I'm sorry Mr. Flibble. I just don't.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Watercolors

[TobyBoy]

I agree with the others. Her reasons are just excuses. “I wasn’t happy” is pure BS. 
You yourself said she wasn’t happy at her job and was considering quitting. But as soon as SH joined her team she was happy, free and entitled? 
Listen, bottom line she was physically attracted to SH from the moment she saw him, pursued him and got what she wanted. End of story. 
 

ETA: If my wife had done what your wife did to you and your daughters, I would have divorced her so fast her head would spin. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by TobyBoy

[TobyBoy]

Forgot.....that list she gave you. Most of those should have been already offered to you since you confronted.