Dating as an Astrophysicist: unreasonable expectations?

[WanderingComet]

I am an astrophysicist. Got my PhD over a year ago and now I am actively doing research about Supermassive black holes in the nearby universe. 

I get quite perplexed when thinking about how religion and spirituality plays into relationships and even dating.

To start off, I have absolutely no problem with anyone having faith/religion/being spiritual etc. My parents are very religious (and would perhaps wish I was more so, but try not to force me to do things. I appreciate it for the traditions but don't really have strong faith ties)

So when it comes to dating, in general, I don't care about what religion the guy might be. 

However, I am very strongly put off by people who strongly believe in astrology, for a partner. I am literally an astrophysicist so I literally know how much effect basically anything in the universe will have on you. 
I don't really care if my friends believe (then again most of my friends are also astrophysicist so they don't believe in it either). But to each their own. I don't have to spend the rest of my life with them. But this is different for dating, and thinking long term, for whoever I end up with.

My problem is when they hear about my profession and decide to hound me about astrology and spirituality and to try to ask me questions about astronomy but in an astrology/spiritual context. 

Is it unreasonable to be annoyed/put off by this? or to expect the guy to respect what I do and not keep asking if I 'feel the force holding everything together when you look at galaxies?'

[Wiseman2]

Don't engage in conversation you don't want to. No one is forcing you to talk about religion, astrology, etc.

Try to be less uppity and more open minded and accepting of others beliefs, even if you don't embrace them yourself.

If you set yourself light years apart from and above others expect to be quite lonely in general and have difficulty dating in particular.

Dating and friends is not about your resume.

[d0nnivain]

Not unreasonable at all.  If you can't talk to your partner, that person is not for you.  

[WanderingComet]

9 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Don't engage in conversation you don't want to. No one is forcing you to talk about religion, astrology, etc.

Try to be less uppity and more open minded and accepting of others beliefs, even if you don't embrace them yourself.

If you set yourself light years apart from and above others expect to be quite lonely in general and have difficulty dating in particular.

Dating and friends is not about your resume.

Oh I make it a point to never bring it up myself. 
I've just had a couple dates in the past where the guy has brought up the topic and tried to engage me in it. 
I generally try to avoid these topics all together, just looking for the best way to end those conversations. 

Now if he wants to talk about the Force from Star Wars I'm all ears haha

[Wiseman2]

Sounds like you don't understand the prevailing culture very well.

Why not join a paid/elite dating site for people with advance degrees. Or a niche site for sci fi fans?

You make it sound like there are no similarly educated men in your area.

[Ruby Slippers]

I'd say lighten up. I've dated an aerospace engineer, high-level mathematician, doctor. We talked about anything and everything from science to metaphysics to conspiracy theories with open minds and a sense of humor. Always great conversation. 

[Ellener]

5 hours ago, WanderingComet said:

I am very strongly put off by people who strongly believe in astrology

I've found in response to something like 'oh I'm a Virgo! with my sun in the eighth house!' just smile politely and nod, like you would if anyone said anything else you didn't understand/agree with/want to get into, then move on...getting to know people almost everyone will have some habit/superstition/personal belief to them, and mostly it's not a big deal unless they go on and on about it. But that would probably be a deal breaker if they went on and on about anything, even astrophysics, right? 😃 

 

6 hours ago, WanderingComet said:

asking if I 'feel the force holding everything together when you look at galaxies?'

I think again I'd just smile, say 'yes' then move on...

There's a Leil Lowndes book 'How to talk to anyone' which describes how to use your body language and 'presence' or awareness to get the best out of relationships and social situations. Again, don't have to agree with every word, but it's a way of modelling things to put yourself and others at ease, and practise.

 

 

[stillafool]

6 hours ago, WanderingComet said:

(then again most of my friends are also astrophysicist so they don't believe in it either)

Are there any Astrophysicists you can date?  If not, if someone brings up astrology to you just smile and say "I don't believe in that stuff" and change the subject.  They'll get the message.

[WanderingComet]

47 minutes ago, Ellener said:

I've found in response to something like 'oh I'm a Virgo! with my sun in the eighth house!' just smile politely and nod, like you would if anyone said anything else you didn't understand/agree with/want to get into, then move on...getting to know people almost everyone will have some habit/superstition/personal belief to them, and mostly it's not a big deal unless they go on and on about it. But that would probably be a deal breaker if they went on and on about anything, even astrophysics, right? 😃 

 

I think again I'd just smile, say 'yes' then move on...

There's a Leil Lowndes book 'How to talk to anyone' which describes how to use your body language and 'presence' or awareness to get the best out of relationships and social situations. Again, don't have to agree with every word, but it's a way of modelling things to put yourself and others at ease, and practise.

 

 

Ahh yes the 'Smile and wave' maneuver ! Gotta deploy it more often in those situations! 

[Trail Blazer]

If a dude genuinely believes in that nonsense then he deserves to be nexted.  Likewise, if his behavior starts changing and he blames it on a full moon.

[alphamale]

a lot of people confuse the two (astronomy & astrology)

[central]

There are many people who are knowledgeable about science; date them.  And there are many who are not, but aren't into various superstitious and metaphysical beliefs; they can be good dates as well.  There are also some who believe in inoffensive stuff that really doesn't matter most of the time, like crystal energy (but they're pretty!) or homeopathy (but the placebo effect often works). 

[Wiseman2]

On 7/28/2020 at 10:28 AM, WanderingComet said:

 I am also not limiting my dating search to just locals but also to foreigners who are currently living here 
However, I had this issue before moving to SK as well. 

Keep in mind that what you think of as "bunk" may be a matter of belief systems in Asian cultures, like zodiac for example. Even some educated people believe in "auspiciousness" regarding that.. If you are going to live in Asia you don't have to embrace beliefs but you should at least respect them.

You keep ascribing this to your credentials but it sounds like there is too much of a cultural gradient.

Astrology from the western viewpoint is more of a gimmick or entertainment, like a fortune cookie. Try to accept that both your beliefs and the beliefs of others are valid, at least to them. Try not to be the notorious "ugly westerner" when doing business in other cultures.

[Watercolors]

14 hours ago, WanderingComet said:

So when it comes to dating, in general, I don't care about what religion the guy might be. 

However, I am very strongly put off by people who strongly believe in astrology, for a partner. I am literally an astrophysicist so I literally know how much effect basically anything in the universe will have on you. 

I don't really care if my friends believe (then again most of my friends are also astrophysicist so they don't believe in it either). But to each their own. I don't have to spend the rest of my life with them. But this is different for dating, and thinking long term, for whoever I end up with.

My problem is when they hear about my profession and decide to hound me about astrology and spirituality and to try to ask me questions about astronomy but in an astrology/spiritual context. 

Is it unreasonable to be annoyed/put off by this? or to expect the guy to respect what I do and not keep asking if I 'feel the force holding everything together when you look at galaxies?'

Both of my uncles were nuclear physicists. One uncle's wife was a real estate saleswoman. The second uncle's wife was a librarian. The first uncle's wife loved astrology and the second uncle's wife was like you -- she thought it was hogwash. 

I don't think your views on astrology are unreasonable at all. If you think its nonsense that's absolutely fine! You should date a guy who also believes astrology is nonsense. Most guys don't believe in astrology anyway, so I am not sure why you are having problems. Are you only meeting guys who follow astrology? That's weird. Where are you meeting them? 

I don't think astrology has anything to do with your dating life. I think the fact that you are choosing the wrong guys entirely to invest your time and energy in is the problem. 

If he doesn't respect what you do and questions your credibility, DO NOT DATE HIM. Occam's razor principle here: the simple explanation is, you are choosing the wrong guys to date. Stop doing that and your problem finding compatible guys will disappear. 

I mean, how dumb does he have to be, to confuse 'astrology' with 'astronomy.' Pretty dumb I'd say. 

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Watercolors

[basil67]

I suggest you show the same consideration for astrology as you do religion.   As long as they don't push it on you or talk about it at length, what's the harm?   As a fellow skeptic, I really can't see the difference between religion and astrology anyway.   

[WanderingComet]

Thanks for all your input! 

From now on I am going to try to keep a more outlook on other people's beliefs (within reason).

a.k.a. a dealbreaker would be if he would try to force me 'try his crystals' or whatever
but otherwise keep an open mind

[schlumpy]

I own an eight inch reflector and the neighbor asked me it I could see the American flag on the moon. I just use my sense of humor to tamp down my irritation. If I can, I educate. 

Looking for black holes in nearby interstellar space, within our galaxy or in other galaxies is much like dating in that a good match is elusive and the evidence that someone is interested in you is many times indirect. You can't directly see it.

I doubt you want to talk shop with a potential SO. So you will need a background on current culture like movies, latest trends. tv shows, sports teams and other conversational topics so you can participate with the people you know. Knowing card games is a good way to make friends. Knowing the local sports team can be a real ice breaker.

Round out your personality, because I'm pretty sure that most people will not be very interested in the evolution of main sequence stars on the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram.

In fact, I am very sure of it.

Use or develop a sense of humor to deflect people that don't really understand what they are talking about when they mention astrology.

I do envy your choice of occupation. The new generation of telescopes should make it an exciting time in your life.

[WanderingComet]

22 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

Looking for black holes in nearby interstellar space, within our galaxy or in other galaxies is much like dating in that a good match is elusive and the evidence that someone is interested in you is many times indirect. You can't directly see it.

haha I always say that dating is harder than astrophysics! 

 

23 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

I doubt you want to talk shop with a potential SO. So you will need a background on current culture like movies, latest trends. tv shows, sports teams and other conversational topics so you can participate with the people you know. Knowing card games is a good way to make friends. Knowing the local sports team can be a real ice breaker.

Round out your personality, because I'm pretty sure that most people will not be very interested in the evolution of main sequence stars on the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram.

 

yeah that's the plan. I am usually very good with movies and tv shows and books and try to change the topic to that.

I also actively do theatre, so talking about creative interests is very up my alley. 

Going to focus on that more

[Dork Vader]

I think it's important to note the OP is in South Korea. The demography of the populace are likely wildly different than in the US or Europe. Astrology and a belief in things such as that are likely much more prevalent. 

That said, I don't think the OP posted anything that is unreasonable. I have occasionally gone on dates with people who had beliefs I could not agree with or respect. I simply viewed it as the person not being for me and moved onto the next. I don't think it's any different than talking to someone about finances and finding out they are on a different page than you. if you're financially prudent, it's reasonable to be turned off by people who are not financially prudent. It does not have to be an exact match in terms of religion, finances or other things. But you definitely want to be in the same ball park.

I would just stick it out. Dating in general is difficult for everyone. You have to weed through a lot of people before you find someone who is for you. I would not be discouraged by any of it. Just move on when you identify things that are a turn off, especially in the early stages of dating. 

I also agree that many people confuse astrology for astronomy. 

I think another challenge the OP might run into is finding someone who is on a similar level in terms of intelligence. Which can be a big deal, it's a fairly huge turn off to be on a date with someone who's stupid. It's very difficult to respect that and not be turned off. 

[Curious-Sam]

So in a way I think you recognizing this could be a good thing for your dating - because it ultimately achieves what most people asking about star signs are looking for. To know your personality type. Your reaction reveals a lot - which is helpful for you and the other people your meeting because ultimately you looking for the same thing - finding someone complimentary to your own personality. 😃

I don't have an issue with Astrology - depending on how people use it. For most people I've met its really just a way for them to try to understand their own personality and someone elses and how they would interact together / compliment each other. Most people I've met who are into it basically just use it like a more creative/artistic version of the Myer Briggs Personality Type test. Its not so much about the universal woo woo - as it is simply personality types and relationships. There are 16 MBTI personality types - and 12 Zodiac signs. Very similar concepts and essentially they have a basic equivalent even if they describe them differently.

Which system someone prefers to use to look at personality types ...... tends to tell you a lot about that person. I find this is actually really advantageous for dating because again it tells you if the two people are compatible / on the same wavelength. Scientific types - I find often have a leaning towards cold hard facts. Very logical and literal explanations of these types of things. They tend to lean into the MBTI (or similar test)  when looking at personality types and how they interact together.

More creative\artistic types and alternate thinkers tend to prefer something less rigid and a little more abstract. They like something a little more playful and metaphorical. Instead of facts and figures they tend to like something more intuitive which uses archetypes, symbols, story and imagery to explain personality rather then very literal and logical "matter of fact" checklists . This also points to those who have a more "spiritual"  inclination - vs someone with a more "materialist" inclination. 

If i was to hazard a guess this would place you likely somewhere close to the ISTJ on the MBTI  test. (Introverted, Sensing, Thinking, Judging)  and so your looking for someone whos compatible with that. And the kind of alternative, artsy, intuitive people who are into star signs don't normally line up very well with this personality type. So likely the star sign thing is really just I guess a personality flag - the tip of the ice berg you might say - signaling this person isn't a good match for you. So its ultimately helping you to find someone who is. 

Wish you the best on your dating search. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Curious-Sam

[Fletch Lives]

I dated a rocket scientist and a spy once. The spy who loved me?! 😄

[alphamale]

13 hours ago, schlumpy said:

Round out your personality, because I'm pretty sure that most people will not be very interested in the evolution of main sequence stars on the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram.

[Blind-Sided]

OK... I have several degrees.  One of which is Physics. (experimental/instrumentation)  So I completely understand where you are coming from.  I have understanding, and math skills that surpass most people I interreact with.  BUT... that doesn't mean you can't VERY MUCH enjoy being with someone who isn't in the same place as you.  With Astrology... you and I both know the truth to it.  I personally find it interesting on 2 levels.  1) the trivial aspect that my horoscope brings. (it's fun like a fortune cookie)  and 2) The psychological aspect of the people who TRULY believe in it. 

Now... it's the second part of that, which can be the issue.  If you find a dating partner who is completely enveloped by astrology, and it's teachings... and it's dictating aspects of their life... then that partner is not for you.  It's just the same as if someone is a different religion, or if your politics completely clashes, and they are trying to force their beliefs on you.   OR... if every conversation heads down the path of whatever they are into.  Regardless of what that is... it just shows a single mindedness, and generally shows that they would be unwilling to listen to the other side. 

The other side of this is... some people just use it as an ice breaker. If you are early dating... and they bring it up... Simply ask how much they believe in it, before you make a judgment. 

One last thing... don't let your Science kill off any "Faith" you may have.  All the world's greatest physicists believed in religion, and a god of some kind.  Einstein said he believes that "God" would not play dice with the universe. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Blind-Sided

[Els]

If it annoys you then it annoys you. The first date is way too early to be putting up with major annoyances, IMO.

Personally, I'd be more turned off by a man who believes in astrology/religion than a man who showed up in a pink tutu. Nothing wrong with those guys (and nothing wrong with guys who like pink tutus either ), it's just a really strong gut reaction that I can't switch off. I'm cool with having friends who believe in that stuff, because I don't have to be attracted to my friends.

[Els]

35 minutes ago, Blind-Sided said:

One last thing... don't let your Science kill off any "Faith" you may have.  All the world's greatest physicists believed in religion, and a god of some kind. 

Nah, not true. Einstein was agnostic, Hawking was an atheist, Sagan was an atheist, Schrodinger was an atheist, so on and so forth. In fact there were very few well-known religious physicists, the only two I can think of are Planck and Newton.

Quote

Einstein said he believes that "God" would not play dice with the universe. 

That quote has always been incredibly misunderstood. This is what the context actually was:
 

Quote

 

Like Spinoza, Einstein was a strict determinist who believed that human behavior was completely determined by causal laws. For that reason, he refused the chance aspect of quantum theory, famously telling Niels Bohr: "God does not play dice with the universe."[77] In letters sent to physicist Max Born, Einstein revealed his belief in causal relationships:

You believe in a God who plays dice, and I in complete law and order in a world which objectively exists, and which I in a wildly speculative way, am trying to capture. I firmly believe, but I hope that someone will discover a more realistic way, or rather a more tangible basis than it has been my lot to find. Even the great initial success of the quantum theory does not make me believe in the fundamental dice game, although I am well aware that some of our younger colleagues interpret this as a consequence of senility.[78]

 

Quote

Albert Einstein's religious views have been widely studied and often misunderstood.[1]

He clarified however that, "I am not an atheist",[4] preferring to call himself an agnostic,[5] or a "religious nonbeliever."[3] Einstein also stated he did not believe in life after death, adding "one life is enough for me."[6] He was closely involved in his lifetime with several humanist groups.[7][8]

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Elswyth