Christianianty on marriage, divorce and remarriage.

[DaveBond]

I believe the rate of divorce among christians will reduce if we all understand the scriptures below. Jesus forewarned that only few people will accept what he teaches about marriage. I personally believe this is because only a few church goer will get into Heaven as there is a cross for every believer to carry. There is a place in the new testament where the Bible says that God chooses not to forgive those who refuse to forgive other people. This is why there is need to be at peace with all men. Although, there are cases where some are advised to be separated from dangerous spouses who are capable of murder or inflicting physical and emotional pains. But I understand there is a difference between divorce and separation. Enough of my own interpretation. I now present the truth to you, raw and undiluted. The following are christian scriptures about marriage. 

 

The Apostles' Witness About Marriage, Divorce and Remmarriage.

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Romans 7:

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

https://bibliajfa.com.br/app/kjv_apocrypha/45N/7/2

 

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Matthew 19

1 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the coasts of Judaea beyond Jordan;

2 And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there.

3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
https://bibliajfa.com.br/app/kjv_apocrypha/40N/19/1

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Witness of Mark 10:

1 And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judaea by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again.

2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.

3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.

11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
https://bibliajfa.com.br/app/kjv_apocrypha/41N/10/1

 

 

[Ronni_W]

DavidBond, the point of spiritual-religious studies is to come to a *proper* understanding of the texts that we are reading/studying, IMO.   We have for Eons misunderstood the Judeo-Christian biblical term "adultery", which actually refers only to spiritual-religious relationships, and not to mortal-carnal-physical ones. That is, a spiritual-religious definition of adultery would run something like: "...unfaithfulness against The One True God, or worshiping or bowing down to any false gods or any human Being(s)."

Similarly, there are parts in the Christian New Testament that point directly to the *spiritual-religious* fact of reincarnation...but even die-hard Christians still refuse to accept these Christian Scriptures teachings. (Matthew 11:14, 16:13-14, and 17:13; Mark 9:12; and in John 9.)    "Many of Jesus’ mystical teachings were recorded in [so-called] apocryphal gospels like Pistis Sophia, The Gospel of Thomas, The Secret Book of John, The Secret Gospel of Mark, The Gospel of Phillip, The Gospel of Mary Madgdalene, and other texts."

[Curious-Sam]

6 hours ago, Ronni_W said:

 We have for Eons misunderstood the Judeo-Christian biblical term "adultery", which actually refers only to spiritual-religious relationships, and not to mortal-carnal-physical ones. That is, a spiritual-religious definition of adultery would run something like: "...unfaithfulness against The One True God, or worshiping or bowing down to any false gods or any human Being(s)."

Respectfully, no we haven't. Christian theology uses the word "adultery" in two different contexts - both related to "cheating" or "breaching" covenant / agreements regarding a relationship between 2 parties. The words meaning remains the same,  its simply applied to 2 different relationships. 

The first one is like you said correctly: It is the spiritual religious relationship between God and his followers. Adultery would be to go an worship and take on the spiritual energy of lower unclean spiritual beings which are not of God. This is adultery against God. It is a breaking of the spiritual relationship. It defiles the energy and introduces impurity and outside energies and links to unlcean spiritual beings. 

The second is similar and related to the sexual relationship between man and woman in marriage. Sexual activity allows for the merging and sharing of spiritual energies between  human individuals. An energy exchange takes place during sex. Adultery occurs when one or both of the parties engage in sexual activity with a person or persons outside the marriage between the two. This like with the relationship with God introduces outside energies. It creates links and energetic bonds to individuals outside the marriage relationship. It pollutes and defiles the energetic bond between the married couple in the same way worshipping or taking on energy from lower spiritual beings does in the relationship with God. 

The christian scriptures couldn"t be more clear on this. It applies to both relationships. Indeed when Jesus preached this to the Jewish people they responded by saying this is too hard to keep. It would be easier to get castrated and become a eunuch. Tells you how challenging the teaching is. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Curious-Sam

[major_merrick]

I think the rate of divorce among Christians would be reduced if Christians understood the purpose of marriage, as God sees it.  Christians have been influenced by modern Western society.  Modern society preaches the idea that people have a *right* to health, wealth, happiness, etc... and that any means necessary to achieve those things is justified.  So, if you're not happy in your marriage, then you've got the right to just....quit.  People expect you to quit, and advise you to quit.  According to God, that's wrong.

My religious community has a different view of marriage.  Divorce isn't permitted, and even in the one exception (infidelity), counseling and reconciliation is the ideal.  The truth is, "God hates divorce."  Since we are married outside the bounds of the State, different standards apply.  When I married my husband, it was with the understanding that there could be absolutely no release from the marriage unless one of us dies.  When I moved into my new family, I had some conflict I had to deal with.  But guess what?  That's part of the deal, as there isn't an easy way out.  What God has joined together, man isn't going to separate.  The only option is to stick around and solve that conflict.

Marriage isn't necessarily for happiness.  Happiness is good and hopefully will be a part of it, but marriage is actually for suffering.  Because getting through the inevitable pain of this life is often too much for one person.  And the process of living together involves smoothing off some of our sharp edges, and that brings some pain.  Being held to account to keep our promises involves some pain.  I didn't understand these things when I was younger, so I stayed away from marriage.  Now that I'm in my 30's, I have a different view.  I don't expect to be happy all the time, or find some magical pain-free life, or to have an easy relationship where I always (or even regularly) get what I want.  Marriage is work, and it often hurts.  And that's OK.  

[Curious-Sam]

4 hours ago, major_merrick said:

Modern society preaches the idea that people have a *right* to health, wealth, happiness, etc... and that any means necessary to achieve those things is justified.  So, if you're not happy in your marriage, then you've got the right to just....quit.  People expect you to quit, and advise you to quit.  According to God, that's wrong.

Wise words.   I think in alignment with what you have said Christianity teaches about tests/trials. How God (and sometimes just life and people around you) will put before you obstacles and challenges. Storms as Jesus put it. In relationships modern society has in many places come to think if things get difficult  - cut and run. Where as like you say Christianity teaches these are "tests" to see if you really value the relationship and can work through the difficult time. And that ultimately happiness comes not from continually seaking the "easy path" but rather from weathering the storms - and emerging the others side with deeper trust, intimacy, love etc. In saying that to the OPs original point - God also understands we are human and fallible and offers us grace and forgiveness. He gives us the target to aim for  - but understands we can and will fall short in many areas - not just marriage but other parts of the teaching as well. And thats the whole reason for Jesus - so we can turn to him for healing and grace if we go through something like an unplanned and unwanted divorce.  

Edited November 29, 2020 by Curious-Sam

[Ronni_W]

Curious-Sam, yes, there is an exchange of Spiritual Energies during sexual intercourse, but spiritual-religious *adultery* or unfaithfulness does not refer to this process.  The impure/Ungodly, or what we know as ‘physical-carnal-sexual’, co-creative process of intermingling our Pure (Godly) and impure (carnal-mortal) Spiritual Co-creative Energies involves the various processes of creating “by committing fornication and cursing and intercourse, that is, by using black magic potions and the tools of black magic or misusing your Spiritual Light and Light-Powers, that is, your Kundalini Light and Energy”.

Spiritually-religiously – from the perspective of God – there are NOT two types of relationships – you are basing your comments on there being one type of relationship – with God – AND there being another type of relationship – with carnal-mortal (human) Beings; but it is the latter that we need to reject, renounce, give up, etc., *IF* (and only if) we want to be and stay in alignment with God and only God. (I here refer you to read the manuscript ‘Pistis Sophia’ edited by G. R. S Mead in 1921.)

major_merrick, if you can say that “God hates” anything at all, then you are already on a wrong understanding of God and a wrong understanding/interpretation of Jesus’ teachings. God does NOT *hate*! Period. Hate is the antithesis of God, and of God’s True Nature, and of God’s True Will, Vision and Plan for Earth. (And, ‘hate’ includes negative bias, prejudice, intolerance, human judgment, impatience, and lack of empathy, compassion, understanding, unity, inclusiveness, equalness, etc., and a sense of others being lesser-than, inferior, etc., and a sense of superiority, being more important or valuable than, etc.)

Edited December 1, 2020 by Ronni_W

[Ellener]

On 11/28/2020 at 11:57 PM, major_merrick said:

My religious community has a different view of marriage.  Divorce isn't permitted, and even in the one exception (infidelity), counseling and reconciliation is the ideal.  The truth is, "God hates divorce."  Since we are married outside the bounds of the State, different standards apply.  When I married my husband, it was with the understanding that there could be absolutely no release from the marriage unless one of us dies. 

What if he harms you or your children? You should automatically leave and be able to leave and be supported to leave him by your community. The world does not need any more Warren Jeffs situations.

My social work radar goes up when I hear this.

And how could there be infidelity if all the men and women have multiple sexual partners? ( I really do not judge except for issues of abuse, protection, safety, personal freedom, legality )

[major_merrick]

@Ellener I trust my husband with my life, and the lives of my children.  I have no doubts about his character and his kindness toward me.  As for having multiple partners, it is by agreement and according to the Old Testament.  Just like Jacob, one husband, and a limited number of wives.  If I was to sleep with another man, or my husband was to find a girlfriend outside of our home, it would definitely be infidelity. 

But... if everything went crazy, its not like I'm some defenseless little pet - all fluff and no teeth.  I can be pretty fierce if I'm cornered.  I also have no doubt that the elders of my community would protect me.  Not to the point of release from my marriage, but there would be intervention.  My husband states that he has authority only because he is under authority.  There's something bigger than him that he has to answer to.  If I had significant conflict in my marriage, the resolution for that would follow the steps laid out in Matthew 18.  First, it would be one-on-one, just me and him.  If that didn't work, I'd bring a couple of trusted people in to help me, "that in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses every word may be established."  If that didn't work, proceed to the elders/the church. 

I believe that many marriages could be saved by following the proper conflict resolution steps and having community support. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by major_merrick

[Ellener]

36 minutes ago, major_merrick said:

@Ellener I trust my husband with my life, and the lives of my children.  I have no doubts about his character and his kindness toward me.  As for having multiple partners, it is by agreement and according to the Old Testament.  Just like Jacob, one husband, and a limited number of wives.  If I was to sleep with another man, or my husband was to find a girlfriend outside of our home, it would definitely be infidelity. 

But... if everything went crazy, its not like I'm some defenseless little pet - all fluff and no teeth.  I can be pretty fierce if I'm cornered.  I also have no doubt that the elders of my community would protect me.  Not to the point of release from my marriage, but there would be intervention.  My husband states that he has authority only because he is under authority.  There's something bigger than him that he has to answer to.  If I had significant conflict in my marriage, the resolution for that would follow the steps laid out in Matthew 18.  First, it would be one-on-one, just me and him.  If that didn't work, I'd bring a couple of trusted people in to help me, "that in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses every word may be established."  If that didn't work, proceed to the elders/the church. 

I believe that many marriages could be saved by following the proper conflict resolution steps and having community support. 

One of my first friends in the US was LDS, the modern church of one wife one husband, they don't believe polygamy/polyamory any more, but when she complained to the elders of her church about his cheating and physical abuse the bishop requested a meeting- then told her she had a religious duty to please her husband.

It's a whole other world to feminists like me. To a Christian like me. To me just a person who expects to be treated with equality, love and respect. And forgiveness.

I hope you are okay in your situation. If it makes you feel safe that's good but you have said so many times lately the free world is coming to an end? That's not, despite the dire Covid situation in the US this year, the general perception of Americans. You have been telling us about our freedoms which are curtailed but I would never agree to a marriage situation which was incontravertible- the ultimate loss of freedom.

I hope you are okay and well and safe.

 

 

 

[Curious-Sam]

On 12/2/2020 at 9:13 AM, Ronni_W said:

Curious-Sam, yes, there is an exchange of Spiritual Energies during sexual intercourse, but spiritual-religious *adultery* or unfaithfulness does not refer to this process.  The impure/Ungodly, or what we know as ‘physical-carnal-sexual’, co-creative process of intermingling our Pure (Godly) and impure (carnal-mortal) Spiritual Co-creative Energies involves the various processes of creating “by committing fornication and cursing and intercourse, that is, by using black magic potions and the tools of black magic or misusing your Spiritual Light and Light-Powers, that is, your Kundalini Light and Energy”.

Spiritually-religiously – from the perspective of God – there are NOT two types of relationships – you are basing your comments on there being one type of relationship – with God – AND there being another type of relationship – with carnal-mortal (human) Beings; but it is the latter that we need to reject, renounce, give up, etc., *IF* (and only if) we want to be and stay in alignment with God and only God. (I here refer you to read the manuscript ‘Pistis Sophia’ edited by G. R. S Mead in 1921.)

I'm honestly not really sure how to approach this response. What you initially posted about adultery and the relationship between man and God was correct. It's just that it's only half of the teaching given about "Adultery" in Judo Christian theology. I don't consider what you posted to be wrong. Just that your only addressing one aspect of the teaching on adultery. That between man and God and not that relating to marriage covenants. There are extensive teachings on both aspects in both old and new testaments. I think the best one to point to is Jesus in his sermon on the mount. This is considered to be the seminal and most important of all Christian teachings and theology. It is where Jesus teaches the "higher law". He takes aspects of the commandments given in the old testament  and he lifts them higher. He tells the law and original teachings as it was given to them - then he lifts it "higher" to its true purpose and tells what it means to really keep this law. What it is pointing to. What the perfect life looks like.

He prefaces each teaching with the original commandment. "You have heard it said that ...." Then he tells "the higher version" to which God is trying to point them.

On "Thy shall not kill / murder" He teaches that not only is the physical act of murder against the law but even to hold anger / grudge / hostility and to speak badly about someone is breaking this law. He teaches againat hating others. Murder is just the "worst version" of this.

Similarly on adultery he teaches

You have heard the commandment which says: "You shall not commit adultery". But I say to you anyone who looks at another woman and lusts after her has committed adultery in his heart.

Again Jesus points "higher". Beyond the physical act of adultery to the mental, emotional and spiritual behaviour that underpins and drives it. Lust.

I cannot see how you can even make an argument that adultery does not include the sexual relationship between men and women.

But what troubles me more is that aside from the (male / female / marriage / sex)  part of the adultery teaching it appears from your subsequent post that the first part of the teaching. Regarding the relationship between God and Man. The part you identified correctly. You are yourself breaking it. And I find this more conscerning.  You have made direct references to new age Spiritualism, gnostic teachings which aren't recognised as valid and lastly Hindu spiritual teachings which are directly linked with other spiritual deities. These are exactly what the part of the law you correctly identified in your first post is teaching against. To avoid worship/involvement with other spiritual beings.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Curious-Sam

[Ronni_W]

Curious-Sam, we are on the same page.  Marriage covenants between two human Beings are “of Mammon”, so whatever we decide and choose to vow and covenant between ourselves about our sex lives, finances, children and everything else, does, of course, align with God’s Law of Free Will.  Mammon’s adultery DOES, therefore, include sexual exclusivity between two people – but only if that is what they each vow to the other. (Or between a community of people, or whatever is the chosen sexual lifestyle.)

The Higher Law that Jesus tried to impart to the peoples of that time – to which I 100% subscribe – is, indeed, as you say, higher than or *transcends* Judeo-Christian theology. But, so, we cannot stick to the old theology and also say that we stick with Jesus’ teachings…Jesus’ is, as you rightly say, higher.

A spiritually higher interpretation of the word “woman”, as Jesus used it in your quote about adultery, refers to ‘Mammon sexual Energies’, (Kundalini Energy is the feminine-human aspect, with Alpha Energy being the masculine), and does not refer to a physical human Being who just so happens to be embodied with feminine gender.

All of the teachings that you have been taught to assess/judge from a human or Mammon perspective as being not valid, are, in fact, valid in their PURE form and essence –       – non-violence, inclusivity, compassion, harmony, etc.     It is only that the teachings, including about reincarnation, were ignored and/or rejected and discarded by the original (Roman Catholic) Christian church (in the 4th Century A.D., by the Council of Nicaea), and were also not recognized by the Judeo ‘half’ of Judeo-Christian theologians.

The spiritual deities of other faith traditions are only to represent that we have more than one Spiritual Initiation to pass on Earth, before we can make our personal ascension. The teachings have been corrupted on Earth; and, thus, in recent times people have wrongly/mistakenly taken them to mean that there are several different types or levels of         The One True God. But…if you study any of those traditions to any higher level of spiritual understanding, you will also come to realize that they all resolve to there being                  only The One True God. It does not matter under what label it is being taught. “A rose by any other name…”

Edited December 6, 2020 by Ronni_W
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