Cuties - Netflix film causes uproar and causes people to cancel accounts

[lana-banana]

5 hours ago, Ellener said:

I think Ted Cruz was so vocal about it as he lead one of the crusades here in Texas about the trafficking of women and children.

"The trafficking of women and children" is actually an extremely rare occurrence. The "human trafficking" movement began in Christian megachurches and has since been adopted by Republican politicians as it's a great way to balloon police budgets and punish consensual adult prostitution. Remember the fanfare around human trafficking and the Robert Kraft arrest? Turns out it's just run-of-the-mill prostitution so he got off scot-free...but they charged the women anyway. 

Be very, very wary of anyone talking about "human trafficking" these days, especially politicians. There is almost always an ulterior motive.

[Ellener]

3 hours ago, Libby1 said:

Ellener, who frankly should know much better, agrees that yes you should. 

It's a heated topic for me, sorry. You are right. 

It was made worse this summer when I discovered one of my friends is married to a man who was convicted of making child porn. I just could not get my head around it and it's ended a good friendship. 

I should bow out of this myself, I can't discuss it objectively.

Sorry @basil67 Of course you have lots to contribute. 

[Timshel]

3 hours ago, Libby1 said:

Maybe there's scope for a thread in the parenting section about the wider issues raised by Cuties, and how people can help their children to negotiate their way/stay psychologically healthy in a society where there's so much pressure for them to adopt some of the beliefs, behaviour and trappings promoted by the porn industry into their lives.  Maybe with a couple of rules in the thread that it's not a platform for people to air their views about the film itself.

It's good to get different perspectives from parents, such as yourself and Ellener.  As a parent, I think the movie has accomplished what it set out to do, which is to encourage conversation.  That is happening in this forum and the differing perspectives are the crux of growth.  I do not think Maimouna Doucoure would be displeased, of course she would prefer that every person would watch to form an educated opinion.

The movie 'Cuties' is truly the least of our concerns and politicians such as Ted Cruz are using controversial topics such as these to rile their base, which is base and should be dismissed for to hypocritical bluster that it is.

[Libby1]

57 minutes ago, Ellener said:

It's a heated topic for me, sorry. You are right. 

It was made worse this summer when I discovered one of my friends is married to a man who was convicted of making child porn. I just could not get my head around it and it's ended a good friendship. 

I should bow out of this myself, I can't discuss it objectively.

Sorry @basil67 Of course you have lots to contribute. 

It's a really difficult subject to discuss objectively, I think.  For me, although I can certainly understand people's feelings about the film I do think it has raised an important topic for discussion.  Which I honestly believe was the director's intention.  She's talked about how her own childhood experiences (as well as her concerns about a local dance contest she witnessed more recently) propelled her to make the film.  There's obviously going to continue being heated debate about some of the choices made in the course of that filming...but I do believe her intentions here were honourable and that she has succeeded in provoking discussion about subjects that she, you, I, basil and lots of other people feel strongly about. 

In truth, there are probably far more areas we would all agree on than disagree on...but it's all been muddied by the more attention grabbing issues, current politics, Netflix having that corporate "publicity at all costs" approach and so on.

As for your friend being married to a man who has been convicted of making child porn...I just can't even imagine the impact that must have had, and in the circumstances I think it's understandable that you're not really in a place where you'd want to consider some of the positives (eg the opening up of some much needed discussion) that this film might have had.

[Ellener]

11 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

 

As for your friend being married to a man who has been convicted of making child porn...I just can't even imagine the impact that must have had, and in the circumstances I think it's understandable that you're not really in a place where you'd want to consider some of the positives (eg the opening up of some much needed discussion) that this film might have had.

I had no clue, I just wish she'd been up front and told me, I would have dealt with it then. Being blind-sided with it was horrible. I had to call my minister to tell him we may have a child protection issue here! 

But you were right, it doesn't excuse me being unkind to @basil67 in retaliation, and I am genuinely sorry for out-bursting like that. Sorry for that. Thanks for pulling me up on it!

 

[Libby1]

15 minutes ago, Ellener said:

I had no clue, I just wish she'd been up front and told me, I would have dealt with it then. Being blind-sided with it was horrible. I had to call my minister to tell him we may have a child protection issue here! 

But you were right, it doesn't excuse me being unkind to @basil67 in retaliation, and I am genuinely sorry for out-bursting like that. Sorry for that. Thanks for pulling me up on it!

 

It's nothing compared to some of the outbursts I've had on the internet!

[Ruby Slippers]

9 hours ago, enigma32 said:

I do not need to eat a turd sandwich to know what it tastes like....it tastes like crap. 

😆👍

[basil67]

 @Ellener no hard feelings.  And hugs to you for the shock you've been through with the choices your ex-friend has made.  She would not longer be my friend either.

@Libby1 Thanks for the kind words.  However I will still bow out because I have nothing new to say on the topic and I'd just be reiterating the same thing...and by doing so, prolonging a debate which will not conceivably be reconciled.  

see you on other threads xx

[Allupinnit]

I've seen the movie.  I feel like there is a lot of what-aboutisms going on in here, to make Cuties seem "not that bad" and that there are other, bigger problems we should be clutching our pearls over.  Of course there are.  But we're talking about THIS movie.

One scene was filmed on some stairs where the girls were spreading their legs at the camera, sucking their fingers, and of course twerking - this went on for THREE MINUTES.  And it was completely gratuitous and gross to watch (I don't care if that was the point).  

And honestly it has nothing to do with pedophilia for me.  It's about respecting our daughters and expecting them to act decently.  It's about holding them to a higher standard than the garbage message our culture sends us about women and our bodies, that we have value.  

[maintainsub]

 

On 9/28/2020 at 12:55 AM, Allupinnit said:

I've seen the movie.  I feel like there is a lot of what-aboutisms going on in here, to make Cuties seem "not that bad" and that there are other, bigger problems we should be clutching our pearls over.  Of course there are.  But we're talking about THIS movie.

One scene was filmed on some stairs where the girls were spreading their legs at the camera, sucking their fingers, and of course twerking - this went on for THREE MINUTES.  And it was completely gratuitous and gross to watch (I don't care if that was the point).  

And honestly it has nothing to do with pedophilia for me.  It's about respecting our daughters and expecting them to act decently.  It's about holding them to a higher standard than the garbage message our culture sends us about women and our bodies, that we have value.  

Very true. While I find it not insulting to me as an adult person. It will definitely leave a lasting impression to kids who will watch it, and definitely not in a good way. How I wish those kids in the movie won't apply what they did in the movie to their real-life as they grow old. 

[SolG]

My daughter (late-20s) and I watched this recently.  Our conclusion was it would have been valuable to watch together when she was a pre/early teen herself. Our conversation centred around the fact that there is a time in a girl/young woman's life when they become aware of the value of feminine sexuality, without actually really understanding what it is.

It's really uncomfortable watching those dance scenes. Girls emulating what they percieve as being what will attract attention and 'approval' without understanding why, or the reasons for the ensuing judgement and ramifications.  And this isn't new. The path from childhood to adulthood isn't like a gant chart where one phase just nicely begins where another ends. There's confusion in that transition.

I remember my own time going through that phase in the 80s. I and my preteen friends were stuffing tissues in our bras, salivating over Duran Duran and wanting to be 'Girls on Film', and giggling furiously and whispering while reading Puberty Blues. And all the while not really understanding what any of that really meant other than having some vague perception that this 'sex' thing - even though it was somewhat mysterious and possibly gross - was part of our destiny and power. It was both feared and revered.

And in the not too distant past in human civilization this was a relatively short transition period straight to marriage and motherhood before 20. Extended childhood free of this is a relatively modern construct that we should recognise and be thankful for. Indeed, there are certainly cultures that still exist today where this is a luxury. 

And Cuties added another layer to the conversation. What is it like to navigate that transition while also navigating an instant gratification society while hailing from an ultra conservative one? What does it mean when your culture of heritage ostensibly values fidelity, chastity and modesty, but your mother is tortured by the addition of a younger, perhaps more attractive newer model?

I dunno. I'm not going to buy into what I perceive as the overly hyped response either in defence or condemnation of the movie. IMO it's a conversation starter. The conversation of your choice depending on your view.

 

[ironpony]

Well Netflix has always had a really crappy selection anyway.  Every movie I want to see is almost never on there, and the ones that are on there, most of them I never heard of, and they often turn out to be bad.  So maybe those people who cancelled will turn to better movies?

But I also feel like you cannot judge a movie so harshly without seeing it ether.  The movie has a really high rating from critics on rottentomatoes, and since moviegoers often talk about how critics are have too stubborn of standards, can it really be that bad therefore?

[Ellener]

14 minutes ago, ironpony said:

I also feel like you cannot judge a movie so harshly without seeing it ether.  The movie has a really high rating from critics on rottentomatoes, and since moviegoers often talk about how critics are have too stubborn of standards, can it really be that bad therefore?

people should set their own boundaries, which does not mean go online and write a bunch of vitriol, it just means 'I dont want to be part of this right now'.

Let it go is a viable position!

[ironpony]

I guess another example is when Joker came out last year, so many people were condemning the movie thinking it crosses the line when it comes to violence and it's portrayal of it's themes.  These people did not see the movie and were going by the premise itself and the trailers.  Then I watch the movie, and I think 'that's it?  This movie is so mild compared to what everyone was saying'.  So I feel a lot of people have a tendency to blow things out of proportion if they do not see the movie.

[Ellener]

I closed my Netflix account weeks ago, found there's no way to remove your credit card or delete your account except to contact their customer service! Don't like that. They still send periodic emails asking me to 'reactivate your account'.

[sothereiwas]

On 9/25/2020 at 10:41 PM, enigma32 said:

little girls dancing to WAP and smacking each other's butts is sexualizing children.

The main reason peddling child porno is wrong is due to what the subjects of the video had to experience. This is the same. Those scenes had to be shot, critiqued, reshot, and so on to "get it right"; the film maker even boasted about how many times some of the more egregious scenes had to be reshot. 

[Taramere]

I think the controversy about this film stemmed from the Netflix advertising campaign.  Without that campaign, it would probably have just been a fairly obscure arthouse film whose few viewers would have discussed it along the lines the director intended. There are probably loads of arthouse films out there that would shock and horrify people if they were taken on by Netflix and advertised in the way that Cuties was.

The thing I found disturbing about the film was the number of people who said "Cuties is worse than you think..."  Which I can only interpret as them believing that the film was worse than the salacious Netflix advertising campaign.  I think there was certainly disturbing imagery in the film, but by all accounts it was filmed in close consultation with child protection professionals.  If people's concern really is about the welfare of child actors, an American audience could probably do with looking much closer to home.  While I was supportive of the aims of the MeToo movement, I was sorely disappointed by the lack of focus on the abuse and exploitation of child actors in Hollywood.

An abuse survivor describes her feelings about watching Cuties here:

https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2020/10/watching-netflixs-cuties-survivor-pedophilia/616731/

She says:

"the argument that images of girls dancing like women will “delight pedophiles” forgets that pedophilia is a perversion, a sickness unworthy of consideration in the process of creating sensitive, highly contextual art"

I agree with this.  Some of the furore about this film is almost suggestive of critics believing that the film will transform ordinary people into paedophiles.  There's also an indication that any film which attempts to explore some of the more difficult, darker issues that girls in that age group face is likely to attract condemnation...and I think that's why there's quite a strong feminist reaction to some of that criticism. Being an 11 year old girl is not all sanitised "Anne of Green Gables" stuff.  Especially not in this day and age.  This film wasn't made for paedophiles.  It was made by a woman, for women, and intended to explore some of the difficult, complex issues facing girls who are on the brink of puberty...with particular emphasis on immigrant girls whose early life has been shaped and governed by a culture very different from the pornified culture that the internet exposes girls to.  

 I think people will see "film that is intended for the consumption of paedophiles" that if they remain on the outside as observers (and, therefore, objectifiers of the girls in the film).  The director's intention is very clearly to invite the viewer to see the world from the main character's perspective...and, in doing so, obtain a better sense of the unique pressures a girl in her situation would experience...and, therefore, a greater understanding of why she reacts as she does in some of the more disturbing scenes.  To reduce this as a film "for paedophiles" is a real slap in the face to girls in that age range whose lives are far from the "sugar and spice" niceness people might want to pretend they are.  This film is about the reality of the world many of them live in.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Taramere