How do you even get covid?

[Spring1234]

I just don't understand how there can be 50,000+ cases a day? I certainly believe it, but just how did these people get the virus?

Like in the beginning nobody was wearing a mask and now most people are and the numbers are higher. Are people getting it at bars, but I thought most bars are closed. They never really say where people are getting this virus. I originally thought at salons, but you don't hear about outbreaks there anymore and everyone I know goes to salons all the time.

So everyone is just getting it at friends houses or parties? Are people getting it at stores? I haven't heard of any workers sick. 

I just don't get it. I thought you don't really get it from touching surfaces or passing by people. I thought it is more close contact with people with no masks. All 50,000+ people were in close contact with people with no mask? 

I guess with no way to contact trace you can pick it up anywhere....

Thank you for anyone that can make me understand.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Spring1234

[basil67]

We've just had a second wave kick off in Melbourne Australia, so because the numbers are relatively small, we have been able to track it well.   It started with bungling of quarantining of returned expats supervised by untrained security.   Those security guards took it home with them.   Here is the spreading of when things were beginning to go bad for them a couple of weeks ago.

• 242 cases are residents of various public housing towers in North Melbourne and Flemington. Investigations are continuing into how these cases are linked. 
• 32 cases are residents of various public housing towers in Carlton. Investigations are continuing into if and/or how these cases are linked. 
• Six cases have been linked to LaManna Supermarket Essendon
• 12 cases have been linked to Somerville Retail Services 
• Eight cases have been linked to Cenvic Construction Riverina Apartments in Footscray
• 26 cases have been linked to Menarock Life Aged Care Facility in Essendon
• 13 cases have been linked Glendale Aged Care Facility in Werribee
• 144 cases have been linked to Al-Taqwa College
• Two cases have been linked to Japara Central Park Aged Care in Windsor 

Bear in mind, Melbourne has gone back into stage three lockdown which slows the spread.   One truck driver from Melbourne who was infected came to Sydney and went to a pub - it started to spread again here now too.   There have been cases which have come from a church, a couple of shopping malls and other pub/club venues.  (Pub/club venues rules have been tightened again since this happened).   

If you're somewhere where number are already high, it's that much harder again to avoid people who have the virus - hence the large numbers of positives.   Also, if you're like us, you may find that some of your numbers are for returned expats who are in quarantine.  (at least, I assume you've got mandatory quarantine and testing for returned expats) 

Edited July 31, 2020 by basil67

[Spring1234]

48 minutes ago, basil67 said:

We've just had a second wave kick off in Melbourne Australia, so because the numbers are relatively small, we have been able to track it well.   It started with bungling of quarantining of returned expats supervised by untrained security.   Those security guards took it home with them.   Here is the spreading of when things were beginning to go bad for them a couple of weeks ago.

• 242 cases are residents of various public housing towers in North Melbourne and Flemington. Investigations are continuing into how these cases are linked. 
• 32 cases are residents of various public housing towers in Carlton. Investigations are continuing into if and/or how these cases are linked. 
• Six cases have been linked to LaManna Supermarket Essendon
• 12 cases have been linked to Somerville Retail Services 
• Eight cases have been linked to Cenvic Construction Riverina Apartments in Footscray
• 26 cases have been linked to Menarock Life Aged Care Facility in Essendon
• 13 cases have been linked Glendale Aged Care Facility in Werribee
• 144 cases have been linked to Al-Taqwa College
• Two cases have been linked to Japara Central Park Aged Care in Windsor 

Bear in mind, Melbourne has gone back into stage three lockdown which slows the spread.   One truck driver from Melbourne who was infected came to Sydney and went to a pub - it started to spread again here now too.   There have been cases which have come from a church, a couple of shopping malls and other pub/club venues.  (Pub/club venues rules have been tightened again since this happened).   

If you're somewhere where number are already high, it's that much harder again to avoid people who have the virus - hence the large numbers of positives.   Also, if you're like us, you may find that some of your numbers are for returned expats who are in quarantine.  (at least, I assume you've got mandatory quarantine and testing for returned expats) 

I'm in America, where the virus has been handled really poorly. I am in Pennsylvania which has 1000+ new cases a day and over 100 in my city alone. Plenty of people refuse to wear masks here and our testing is not good. There's no way to do contact tracing here because there's so much virus here. I guess based on how you're area is getting it then must be the same here just from anywhere. 

Is there a mask mandate where you are, are schools back in session, what's life like there and what restrictions are in place? 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Spring1234

[Ellener]

In Houston 60 000 people went out marching in May and no one got sick, then with the reopening of the bars within days we've had 70 000 positive tests.

It's something called viral load, it isn't yet possible to know where or why that shows up, it's just when the virus gets enough strong dna molecules to keep going with its transmission of infection process between people ( or mammals!)  then there's a secondary factor of viral adaptation to its environment. It's thought that's what happened in Houston, several hospitals reported that the initial virus had changed to become less dangerous but way more infectious. Soon after everyone got sick.

 

[basil67]

In my state, there's encouragement to wear masks, but not a mandate.   In Victoria, there's a mandate for masks and they've gone back into level three lockdown.  A few people are complaining about personal freedom, but most think that those complainers are idiots.  

Our schools are back in, but if there's a case, they are closed for deep cleaning and people who got close to them are quarantined for two weeks.    My husband has been working from home since the COVID thing started to get bad - he usually works in an office tower, and it's simply not possible to get everyone in and out of the lifts while maintaining social distancing.   Our biggest concern at the moment is growing complacency - we beat it so well the first time with everyone working together - but now there's been a glitch and the virus is spreading again, a lot of people aren't complying with the rules.   They are fed up.   And we've gone from broad agreement for lock downs to so many of us (myself included) not knowing if we should learn to live with it or lock down again.  

The one thing we do have going for us is a politicians working together.   The Prime Minister supports the state's decisions (or if he doesn't agree, he doesn't undermine them) and the opposition largely supports the PM.   With exception of when we were on fire over the new year,  our politicians do seem to support each other in disaster times.

Stay safe xx

[basil67]

3 minutes ago, Ellener said:

In Houston 60 000 people went out marching in May and no one got sick, then with the reopening of the bars within days we've had 70 000 positive tests.

We're seeing strong indications that it spreads much more readily indoors than out.   Our state had relaxed bar and pub rules and as soon as our state got a new case who went to a pub, it started to really spread.

[Ellener]

12 minutes ago, basil67 said:

The one thing we do have going for us is a politicians working together.

That's what happens here too. They fought a bit at first but once all the contagion started happening they worked together.

[Spring1234]

That's interesting how it spreads so much more indoors than outdoors. 

Bars and indoor dining have been closed in my city since March, I just don't understand how it keeps spreading. So I could talk to someone outside and be fine but if I pass by someone in a mall i could get it? 

How come nail and hair salons aren't making the virus worse just because everyone is wearing masks? Also, stores and super markets? 

[Spring1234]

I honestly don't think anyone knows how it spreads. You can have massive gatherings outside and have no problem, but a few people in a bar and then boom huge outbreak. 

 

[basil67]

4 minutes ago, Spring1234 said:

How come nail and hair salons aren't making the virus worse just because everyone is wearing masks? Also, stores and super markets? 

Our nail salons were closed through the worst of it.   Hairdressers kept going but while we are waiting for our colour to take, we have to sit outside.   Also the hair salons are running at half capacity to ensure social distancing and have perspex screens between the hair washing stations.  If they were running like usual, it's likely we'd have a different story.

Our mainline supermarkets have perspex screens in front of the checkout staff.  

 

[basil67]

6 minutes ago, Spring1234 said:

I honestly don't think anyone knows how it spreads. You can have massive gatherings outside and have no problem, but a few people in a bar and then boom huge outbreak. 

 

Indoors vs outdoors.   Social distancing in a pub vs crowded pub with people flouting rules.  The outcome is in the nuances of behaviour.

[DarrenB]

Here in the UK they've recently reimposed lockdown measures in central and northern areas due to an increase of daily cases and 'covid-related mortality rates'

The problem over here is quite a large majority of people for some reason consider themselves completely immune and essentially immortal, with this thinking the neglect of sanitation, social distancing and lack of PPE has seen a rise in most places. 

The more I think about it the sadder it becomes.

Edited July 31, 2020 by DarrenB

[Spring1234]

Yes, we have plexiglass in front of our checkout at stores too. I haven't been to a salon, but I heard they're doing temp checks which I think makes no sense since asymptomatic people are the issue and plenty of people have covid and don't have a fever, I think it just makes people feel better. 

Darren, plenty of people here also think they're immune or don't believe the virus is serious or even real. It's very political and Trump has made it about himself and his followers are the problem. There are people ignoring social distancing and masks. Everything is open here, I guess they're limiting people and cleaning places. Most people wear masks, but our cases are exploding. My city's schools will be virtual this year. 

We have our local beach towns packed with people, amusement and water parks opened too. 

If you didn't watch the news you barely would know there was a virus.

So I guess people are getting it everywhere especially the indoor places.

I just wish I knew where outbreaks were coming from. We used to hear gyms, salons, rarely ever stores now we just hear there's cases but don't say where from.

Darren are your schools opened? What's life like in the UK as far as masks etc.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Spring1234

[Ellener]

Well I don't have chest pains any more, I'm just a bit weak now. I listened to medical lectures earlier about how doctors worked out how to use the respirators more efficiently to stop worse alveoli lung damage. It's all about the course of inflammation apparently, but giving too much oxygen to relieve the Co2 pain at first when people don't get enough oxygen then they have a panic response which makes inflammation worse it's a complex cycle, if the doctors simply inflate the lungs they get worse inflammation and the alveoli collapse and the membranes fail ...anyway they fixed the balance so the survival rates are way higher.

But the lung alveoli are fragile and take a long time to recover.

I'm out of quarantine now so the first thing is try go walk my little dog tomorrow.

How I cope with that will tell me which kind of doctor to seek. Sorry for hijacking your thread @Spring1234

 

 

 

 

 

[Spring1234]

12 minutes ago, Ellener said:

Well I don't have chest pains any more, I'm just a bit weak now. I listened to medical lectures earlier about how doctors worked out how to use the respirators more efficiently to stop worse alveoli lung damage. It's all about the course of inflammation apparently, but giving too much oxygen to relieve the Co2 pain at first when people don't get enough oxygen then they have a panic response which makes inflammation worse it's a complex cycle, if the doctors simply inflate the lungs they get worse inflammation and the alveoli collapse and the membranes fail ...anyway they fixed the balance so the survival rates are way higher.

But the lung alveoli are fragile and take a long time to recover.

I'm out of quarantine now so the first thing is try go walk my little dog tomorrow.

How I cope with that will tell me which kind of doctor to seek. Sorry for hijacking your thread @Spring1234

 

 

 

 

 

No problem, you had covid? How do you think you got it? 

[Ellener]

14 minutes ago, Spring1234 said:

No problem, you had covid? How do you think you got it? 

One delivery driver did look ill with fever, it was 101 degrees here that week though and he had run upstairs.

I only saw two friends since the pandemic was announced here and neither of them got sick.

But everyone got sick en masse here at the end of June, 70 000 people have already tested positive. Out of a population of 2.36 million.

The advice here is stay home for 14 days if possible if you get a cough/chest infection/fever. Drink water, take aspirin and call 911 if you need help.

I've just been reading CDC guidelines about testing for antibodies. I can't make sense of it yet! I think they just don't know which is what my sister in england says, and everyone I know who has some experience in infectious diseases.

I'm glad I got sick and got better though, it will take me a few days to recover my strength and vitality but then I can go help others or do something useful.

I've never been through anything like this, the last pandemic I was @ 3...I think this one has been a lot more scary with the way the media causes panic.

 

 

[snowboy91]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

  In Victoria, there's a mandate for masks and they've gone back into level three lockdown.  A few people are complaining about personal freedom, but most think that those complainers are idiots.  

As in, where I'm based.

From an infection point of view, you could treat it similarly to a flu virus - it's spread either through the air through respiratory droplets or aerosols. So it's very easy to pick up. The kicker is that it's a far more severe infection... and since it's a new virus no-one has immunity, so people will pick it up at a greater rate than say a flu or cold virus where there may be some existing immunity in the population.

[schlumpy]

1 hour ago, Spring1234 said:

I honestly don't think anyone knows how it spreads. You can have massive gatherings outside and have no problem, but a few people in a bar and then boom huge outbreak. 

 

Keep in mind Spring that the majority of the protestors are of the age group that is least affected by the virus but the most likely to infect others. After a fun night of burning cars they go home to the basement at mom and dads or their grandparents whom are the ones most likely to get sick and end up in the hospital from the virus.

 

[elaine567]

In the Uk, the recent lock downs are mostly in areas where there are large Asian Muslim communities, some commentators are saying the Asian communities in these areas are old school traditional and refuse to follow rules in general, so social distancing and other antiviral measures have not been followed.
They live in large multi-generational families in often poor and overcrowded accommodation and are reportedly in and out of each others houses all the time.
Sounds perfect for viral spread.
The spread they have concluded in these areas is within the homes and from home to home.
That is why the local lockdowns specifically mention that mixing with non household members indoors or in gardens is now illegal
The lockdown has come in just hours before Eid, as I guess public health  and the authorities were worried Eid celebrations will compound the problem, but I guess that will not go down well in such communities. .
A bit I guess like cancelling Xmas on Xmas eve.
 

[schlumpy]

It's never the plan elaine but always the people.

[elaine567]

4 hours ago, Spring1234 said:

just how did these people get the virus?

The virus is a minute particle, it is not alive.
It needs a host to replicate.
People get the virus from other people. This virus is very easily transmissible, it very readily passes from one person to another. causing infection
 Infected people shed virus from their respiratory tract mainly.
Coughing and sneezing, talking, singing and shouting all spread the virus.
They also get the virus on their hands, their clothes, and on any surface they then touch.
Virus can last for days on inanimate surfaces.  The virus cannot infect via the hands per se, but hands touch eyes, they touch noses, they touch mouths, all points of entry to the body for the virus.
Getting close enough to anyone so you are breathing the same air is how it commonly spreads, but washing hands and not touching faces are very very important too to lessen the chance of any spread
 

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, schlumpy said:

After a fun night of burning cars they go home

Where? people are burning cars where you live?

 

 

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

They live in large multi-generational families in often poor and overcrowded accommodation

 Best fix the overcrowding and poverty.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Ellener
spelling

[Redhead14]

4 hours ago, Spring1234 said:

I honestly don't think anyone knows how it spreads. You can have massive gatherings outside and have no problem, but a few people in a bar and then boom huge outbreak. 

 

Its about viral load/strength and concentration.  If you're outside the droplets, etc. are wafted into the air and the strength of it is reduced before it gets to someone else, if it gets to someone else.  Even then you should stay 6 feet apart.  It needs a host fairly soon after being released to remain strong.  If people are inside and the virus is contained and hanging in the air around people, concentrated and people are in closer proximity, the strength of the virus is less diluted, so to speak.  On top of all this, regardless of whether you are wearing a mask, washing hands is the next line of defense.  You can wear a mask all day long, everywhere you go, but if you don't wash your hands after handling things that other people have handled shortly before you and you touch your face or eyes or nose or touch other things that you will touch again shortly, you could get it.  It doesn't live long on surfaces but if there are enough people concentrated in areas and they are touching things that you touch, you're possibly exposed unless you wash your hands often.  It's not an either or thing.  You need all 3 measures, wear masks, wash hands and stay 6 feet or more apart even outdoors in a group consistently.  But, the reality is, there is no way we can be 100% protected.  We just need to do the best we can and at least make the attempts.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Redhead14

[elaine567]

25 minutes ago, Ellener said:

 Best fix the overcrowding and poverty.

It is a long standing problem that is not easily fixed, I guess.