In Love with an Addict, Continued.

[Meesh]

I'm really hurting right now and need some support and insight. A friend told me about this forum so here I am.

I've been dating someone since late last year. I've been very happy overall and in my mind and everyone who knows us, we are so in love. I've been so very happy and he's treated me so well and attentive, loving, and never made me once doubt his feelings. He pursued me with full intention, we both want the same things, and I believed it was all hearts and roses, thinking this could be it.

 

After about 4 months or so, first noticed something was off. He got upset with me once when he saw that I was drunk and I was out with friends and didn't tell him I was going out. That he was uncomfortable with the frequency that I drank and he doesn't want to be around alcohol and an unhealthy lifestyle. Didn't mind my social drinking but felt that maybe my drinking habits (which were mainly social drinking a couple times a week and having drinks at home with dinner sometimes), was incompatible with what he's looking for. That was a rough one. He said he didn't want to lose me though. Soon he revealed the reason was because he was in recovery. He said he was ashamed to tell me and thought he might lose me in the early stages because of my own family history with addiction (2 immediate family members). I asked him when the last time he relapsed and he said last year. Said he's been 'in recovery' for a decade and has relapsed only twice briefly in that time. Told me that he goes to weekly meetings and has a sponsor, and that dating me and pursuing the relationship with me has made him feel like he was hiding something, and didn't want to lie about having to go to meetings, etc. He was sober, didn't touch alcohol around me ever. I thought... well, he's in recovery, it's ok. As long as he has a handle on it, I'm aware, I know it's a struggle and I understand. I scaled wayyyyy back on the drinking, and he noticed. It seemed good.

 

A little after that conversation came up, I found out he relapsed. He went off the map for days but was in some communication and told me he was going through a personal crisis and it wasn't about us, or how he feels about me. He had trouble admitting it to me, and was ashamed. It took him some time to be able to see me again and face me to tell me he had. I didn't judge him, and wanted to see him get better. I asked him what drugs, and he said pot and cocaine. I asked him if either were still going on, and he said just the pot. I thought, well, that's not so bad, many of my friends smoke pot and it's legal anyway. If he's not doing the coke, then maybe it's not so bad and it was just a brief relapse. He talked about getting back to the meetings and reaching out to his sponsor. He seemed to be getting back on track mentally, had been very depressed during that time period. It didn't take long for him to 'seem' better... but little did I know it was spinning out of control. When I was with him lately, he would smoke pot. For the first time ever he would buy alcohol for us to have with dinner we cooked at home. I would have a one or two glasses of wine or a beer with him, or if we went out would have a drink. It was never excessive drinking, but he said his problem was never with alcohol. I don't have a problem with alcohol and I don't use drugs, he knew that... but turns out he was the one getting swallowed whole. That went on for 6 weeks or so after he admitted he relapsed. I thought... so, he has a past with addiction. He relapsed and he told me he wasn't using coke, I'm seeing him smoke weed and that's not so bad. This seems ok. It wasn't ok at all.

 

A few weeks ago now something bad happened. I found out he's been lying all along. He didn't relapse when he said he did, he relapsed about a month prior. Other big lies. He's been in a serious cocaine addiction for the past several months. It's not just pot, it's the coke at night, any time he's not with me, he was using. He admitted there's been times that he's intentionally kept me out/ anxious to end our time together just so he could get high. He would say he was going out with friends, or was doing something else, always accounted for, but he was at home, getting high, or coming down from being high. He was spending a large chunk of the week with me, and I saw no signs of cocaine. I saw the pot, but didn't see signs of the coke. I had no idea. One thing I did notice more recently was that he snapped at me once or twice, and that was new. He was quick to apologize and try and backpedal and smooth things over though. And... I noticed that he was spending most of Saturdays away from me lately... turns out he was sleeping then, recovering. He said he never once did it around me, or was never high when he saw me, it was in private and it was a terrible secret he wanted to protect me from. He's felt so guilty. Heartbroken that he hasn't been giving me all he wants to give and every time we parted, he was torn between wanting the drugs and beating himself up for pushing me away. So the guilt continued and festered. He's cried a lot and has been incredibly remorseful and in pain, wanting to make things work with us. Committing to it now. As much as he possibly can.

 

He committed to 90 meetings in 90 days, this is the middle of the second week. He's going to two meetings today. He's back with his sponsor. He reached out for help and knows he needs help. I had no idea things were so bad. I realize now that he hasn't been sober for months. If it wasn't coke away from me, it was pot when he was with me, or before I saw him. He said at times lately, his only comfort has been being with me, knowing he won't be getting high around me. He's been lying every day, I guess ashamed and trying to protect me, not wanting to lose someone he loves. He hasn't been operating under a full reality, not even close. He said at one point he didn't even care if he lost his job. I guess at times addiction makes you stop caring about anything but the drugs. Even a good relationship, like he's had with me. He jeopardized it and he knows it and is showing remorse and the effort in trying to make it right.

 

My stance is that I encourage him to seek help, and I realize that right now may not be the best time for us to be involved. I have compassion and I don't judge him. I'm supportive of him going to the meetings, and ask questions. I'm not babysitting or being a cheerleader either. I just want him to get well. His stance is that he does not want to lose our relationship and is very remorseful about not being fully present and giving me everything he wants to give. But wants to rectify that now, and is trying. Just in about a week, I see a completely different man. But I'm cautious. I'm hurting a lot. I have taken a little space, but it's so painful for us to be apart. He tells me he loves me every day, and I know he wants us to be together, he wants a life together. I feel the same. I told him let's take it one day at a time right now, he knows I'm hurting, conflicted. He's struggling with his own demons... now everything's out in the open. We went back to church the other day for the first time since before he relapsed. I wondered why he didn't want to go anymore, he would mention but we never did. I could easily tell him, I'm out of here... or that we have to end our romantic relationship or put it on hold... but it is so hard. When we are together it is wonderful and we're in love. His addiction has been getting in the way of our relationship all this time, little did I know, but he did.

 

Each day for the past couple weeks has been incredibly difficult. When we're apart, we're both hurting, longing for each other. Yesterday he said he was completely love sick over me, just being apart for one day. When we're together, I'm so happy. I'd like to make this work and I believe he does too. I love him and I don't want to give that up. I know I could probably find someone who isn't an addict. I could find someone to date, but not so easy to find someone to love and who loves me. I thought about telling him, you should focus on your 90 day commitment, and let's reevaluate our relationship at that time. We can still talk and I will support your recovery and go to church with you. But then the lovesickness kicks in and we just want to be together. I'm not enabling bad behavior and he knows if he uses again he loses me. I didn't give an ultimatum, but he knows. I'm not sure where to go from here.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Meesh

[Beendaredonedat]

He said he didn't want to lose me though. Soon he revealed the reason was because he was in recovery. He said he was ashamed to tell me and thought he might lose me in the early stages because of my own family history with addiction (2 immediate family members).

I'm not going to tell you to leave him so that he can actually get sober and (hopefully) stay that way because I know you won't do it. However: I will tell you that you should get yourself into some al-anon meetings because clearly you are attracted to the addicted because that is the type of person you've watched while growing up. They say we either marry our mothers or our fathers. So who is this guy you are addicted to most like? (your mom or your dad or someone else close to you who you witnessed getting drunk?)

 

Look after your codependency now before you end up being his enabler while becoming more and more addicted to him and feeling you can't leave even when he has relapse after relapse.

 

You haven't even been with him a year and you're deep in his personal quagmire.

Edited July 18, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm not enabling bad behavior and he knows if he uses again he loses me. I didn't give an ultimatum, but he knows. I'm not sure where to go from here.

 

Sorry Meesh, but relapse is part of recovery. If you say you’ll walk next time, save yourself the trouble and leave now.

 

Truth is, he can’t quit for you. Hate to trot out the old 3 C’s, but you didn’t Cause, you won’t Control and you can’t Cure.

 

The suggestion for you to attend AlAnon meetings was a good one. Right now, you don’t even know what you don’t know. Talking to some people further along in the journey would give clarity to the decisions before you. Loving an addict is a little like joining the clergy - lots of faith involved, not many material benefits. Hope things work out...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Meesh]

My father was a drug addict. Alcohol isn’t the issue. It’s drugs, although I guess it may as well be, just the same. He Doesn’t use illegal drugs anymore but just the legal ones. Still an addict in the same way but his life isn’t out of control anymore.. I don’t have a history of dating or being attracted to addicts. I have gone to al-anon in the past and have been going recently too. My bf is determined to get better and is dead set on not losing this relationship. Honestly I’m trying to give and take space as much as possible right now, although I’m just struggling with all the other emotions. This is really difficult.

[Mr. Lucky]

My bf is determined to get better and is dead set on not losing this relationship.

 

Hate to be a cynic, but if I had a dollar for every time my addict expressed something similar, wouldn’t have had to come out of pocket for several costly treatment programs (I’m a slow learner).

 

When he’s done with using, his real recovery will start. Usually the addict doesn’t decide, life makes the decision for them...

 

 

Mr. Lucky

[Meesh]

Thanks Mr. Lucky. I have more to write tomorrow. Thanks for your input.

[Meesh]

Apart from my weekly AlAnon meetings lately, it’s really helpful to talk with people who have had experience with addicts. I need the support.

 

Codependency is the concern here. Is staying with him enabling? If I cut it off, or took a step back for the 90-day period… would that be better? Beendaredonedat said “I’m not going to tell you to leave him so he can actually get sober” …. How is me leaving or staying influencing whether he is sober? Isn’t that on the nose a codependent mindset? My actions don’t influence whether he’s committing to recovery, or using. If I thought that, I would be falling into the codependent trap. I’m aware enough to see that. It’s not what I do that affects him. It has nothing to do with me at all.

 

He’s not quitting for me. He knows he’s put our relationship in jeopardy and I’m on the fence about staying… but what happened recently I would say has caused him to hit ‘rock bottom’ because he knows he could lose the girl he loves. I never gave an ultimatum to quit or lose me. I said I’m not ok with the cocaine and the person he becomes when using it and I think he needs to focus on getting help now.

 

The three C’s. I know. I didn’t cause, can’t control and won’t cure. My addict father has showed me that, something I’ve already learned. His addiction hurt me in my life in that he wasn’t there for me when I needed him. I knew he loved me but he was usually lacking in the ‘showing up’ department. When dad was in the height of his illegal drug days, as a child and early teenager, he had his druggie friends around and I was put in less than ideal situations. I had access to cigarettes, alcohol, and drugs as a young teenager. It was around. I also became sexually active at an early teenage age… had I not been around the alcohol, drugs, etc. I wouldn’t have been in any position or opportunity to have sex. Had I stayed with my mom and stepdad in their strict household I would’ve been sheltered, protected, and sent to an all-girls private high school and probably would’ve gone to college at 18 instead of dropping out and going back at 26, made better choices with men and already had my family by now. I felt my dad wasn’t protecting me as he should have. I knew he loved me though and it wasn’t my fault. I know that. He was neglectful. As a teenager I began to understand why. He went to court ordered rehab and there was a time I was just as concerned about his life and health as I am my bf now. I’ve been here before so in a way I already do know.

 

I know I can’t change him and that relapse is part of recovery. He said this is the third time in 10 years of recovery that he’s relapsed. All been short periods of time, like months. So, it’s possible that he can get clean for a long period of time again, he’s done it before.

 

Mr. Lucky… what do you mean when you say when he’s done with using the real recovery will start, and that usually the addict won’t decide, life makes the decision? Are you saying something bad has to happen in order for him to want to stop using? Like losing me? Or jeopardizing our relationship, or his health failing, or getting in trouble with the law, etc?

[major_merrick]

Relapse is part of recovery, but some people never get out of the cycle. You have to have a reason to permanently recover. For me, I wanted out of poverty and I wanted control of my life. In the past I've tried cocaine and heroin nd I was hooked on painkillers. No matter how high I got, I had to come back to "real life" and I didn't like that. The only way to change it was to change real life - something that drugs couldn't do.

 

So what is his reason for his addiction? What is he trying to escape? And what could be a reason strong enough for him to leave it behind?

[major_merrick]

Mr. LuckyÂ… what do you mean when you say when heÂ’s done with using the real recovery will start, and that usually the addict wonÂ’t decide, life makes the decision? Are you saying something bad has to happen in order for him to want to stop using? Like losing me? Or jeopardizing our relationship, or his health failing, or getting in trouble with the law, etc?

 

 

I'll tell you what it meant in my life. It isn't always one thing, but life will often decide. A deciding moment for me was when I ended up in the hospital because I overdosed. I'd OD'd before, but that one nearly killed me. My GF at the time stayed with me, but our relationship didn't work out because I caused too much chaos for her to handle. After a while, you get the feeling that life/drugs/something is controlling your life rather than you. I don't like not being in control.

[Mr. Lucky]

Mr. Lucky… what do you mean when you say when he’s done with using the real recovery will start, and that usually the addict won’t decide, life makes the decision? Are you saying something bad has to happen in order for him to want to stop using? Like losing me? Or jeopardizing our relationship, or his health failing, or getting in trouble with the law, etc?

 

Exactly. Addicts think they're bulletproof, they lose sight of the law of cause and effect. Of the dozen or so regular attendees when I faithfully went to AlAnon meetings, more than half had loved ones in extremely dire circumstances - incarcerated, homeless, unemployable due to criminal records, children taken away, etc. Many addicts get to the point where they either hit bottom and start recovery - or die. There isn't much middle ground because there's very little margin for error with the drugs we're discussing.

 

I wouldn't pretend to tell you whether to stay or go. Just be realistic about the life circumstances accompanying your choices...

 

Mr. Lucky

[major_merrick]

One of the big problems with cocaine is that it is easy to get to "rock bottom" pretty quickly. It is easier to be a "high functioning" addict with painkillers or pot, and many people can go for years like that while those around them are relatively unaware. Cocaine is different. Depending on the user, you can end up sick or dead quite quickly. The addiction is also really strong in regular users, and withdrawal is pretty bad. Even after recovery, you still get cravings for it. I've been clean for years, but there are still times where I have those feelings like I want it again.

[Meesh]

He's high functioning when using. I truly had no idea. People have asked couldn't I tell he was using coke and I really didn't know. He said he would never do it around me. I didn't see the coke behavior, he said that was something he has hidden. When I look back over the past handful of months now I can pinpoint a couple behaviors that were suspicious. I didn't know so I didn't think anything of these things. I didn't know he was an addict until we were dating for a couple months. He also hid the fact that he relapsed for over a month. He also hid the fact that he was using cocaine for months. Meanwhile we were together 50% of the week and thought I knew his day in and day out. I began to think it was strange how he didn't want to spend Saturday mornings/afternoons together anymore turns out he was getting high Friday nights and sleeping and recovering Saturdays. It made me sad that we weren't doing those couple-y things on Saturday mornings like other couples I know did. We used to ride bikes together on the weekend and when I mentioned it not too long ago, he said I could go on my own, he had no interest. The daily phone calls stopped and were once a week. He seemed annoyed to take my calls sometimes. A couple times he made excuses to end our time together (to use drugs I found out).

 

Right now I'm getting the man that he's felt so remorseful for not being to me over the past handful of months. He's available. He's present and the priorities are straight. He's made it a point that we have transparency now. I told him we can't continue unless we have that. I admitted something to HIM that I've been hiding. I've smoked cigarettes and cloves at times and hid it from him for months. I'm not a regular smoker but have smoked here and there. He had asked me once or twice and I lied. It felt good to admit it and let go of my own secret. Now that we both have seen the darker side of the other, it's easier to be open and vulnerable. For the first time I shared with him something that I'm ashamed of in my past too, aside from the sometimes smoking.

 

Since he has been sober over the past nearly 3 weeks he is a totally different person. I don't miss or want to be with that other guy the drug user. I had no idea how much of a difference it would be. He's totally available now. He wasn't before. He had other priorities as I just found out.

 

He's doing 90 meetings in 90 days now, a couple weeks in. Back to working with his sponsor and seems to really be committing to the recovery. He mentioned something he never did before was make friends and do activities with other people in the program, and now he is and wants to continue that. When we first started dating we would go to church every Sunday. That stopped around the time he relapsed, now I see. We went together the weekend before this last, I was out of town Sunday so he went on his own. Suggested we attend a couples group at the church. He's attending a function at the church this weekend, I can't make it but will be going with him again on Sunday to the service. I've always enjoyed going with him as those Sundays together were some of my happiest times in our relationship. He's a spiritual person and I can see the 'old' behaviors coming back like going to church, practicing meditation, reading, writing in his journal, etc. Working on the steps now. He showed me the material from his sponsor. He's opening up to me a lot about his struggles. Shared that he had a using dream. Shared that the thought crossed his mind to get drugs while I was out of town this past weekend, but didn't. I'm happy to see him wanting to get better and getting better. If I continue to stay with him I think I'll be able to pick up on any signs of relapse now that I've been through it.

 

I don't really want to go to Alanon tonight, I'd rather do something else but I like this group and location and I know it's good for me to go. I never considered myself having any codependent behaviors... I've had a lot of experience in my own family. I'm not trying to save or change anyone because I can't. If he wants to stop using and is committing to that now and wants to save our relationship that's on him. It's not something I have asked for or am getting involved with or checking up on. He may slip. He may relapse next week, next year, or every couple years. I don't know. Worrying about those things won't do me any good. Right now I'm doing my best focusing inward. I'm committing to my weekly meetings, working out and getting in shape, making healthy choices, nurturing my own social life. I'm a social drinker and have definitely leaned too much on alcohol and have abused it at times in my life. I went out with a friend over the past couple weeks and set out to get drunk I was so upset about my boyfriend. nothing severe and I'm not an alcoholic, but sometimes leaned on it as a crutch, or when I'm sad. I'm consciously avoiding that crutch and making healthy choices.

 

I'm also taking it daily and in a way I want to use that 90 day window also as a time for me to reevaluate the relationship and whether I want to recommit/commit to it. At this point in my view we either break up or take things to the next level meaning living together, marriage and having a child. I also think he's not ready quite yet for those things although he wants to be, being newly sober and recently relapsed. He definitely couldn't take things to the next level with me while or if he was using, and probably not in early recovery either since that must be his priority now. I'm taking it day by day right now.

[Beendaredonedat]

Best wishes to you both, Meesh.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm taking it day by day right now.

 

One day at a time .

 

You're smart enough to know most addicts don't hold up their long-term end of the love/marriage/family equation. And what scares me about what you've written is he seems to be doing this for you, or more specifically for the fear of losing you. Not the same as the hard yards and personal growth necessary to stay clean for a lifetime.

 

You seem to have your eyes open. I'll join the previous poster in wishing both of you well and hoping you get what you want. Keep us posted...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Meesh]

One day at a time You're smart enough to know most addicts don't hold up their long-term end of the love/marriage/family equation. And what scares me about what you've written is he seems to be doing this for you, or more specifically for the fear of losing you. Not the same as the hard yards and personal growth necessary to stay clean for a lifetime.

 

Thank you. It's a challenge. He came over for lunch today, it's nice to enjoy those little moments again. Things have been very different in the past couple weeks as far as his availability and connection to the relationship. As to what you said about him doing this out of fear of losing me. He's been clean for long periods of time before, had nothing to do with me. He didn't know me then. If he could do it before it's possible that he could do it again be clean for a long time or a lifetime. From what he's told me he relapsed now three times in a decade, and each time was kind of a short stint. He's mentioned doing or wanting to do things he didn't do before, such as making friendships outside of the meetings and doing social activities with other men from the program now. Maybe that's something that's been lacking for him and could make a difference. I told him I'll be going to MY meeting tonight too. I'm also going to take a little breather and 'me' time after. He's been clinging to me and wanting to see me every day since this all came up. I haven't always been quick to see him but of course, most of the time I just want to be with him anyway. Maybe in his mind trying to make up for the time and attention he felt he wasn't giving me before. I really think it's important for me to stay strong in myself and my own boundaries and health right now so I'm doing that.

 

I really do love him and I want us to be together and have a life together. He told me that's what he wants with me too. I keep telling myself to just take it day by day and reevaluate after the first 90 days. That would bring us to October. Who knows what could happen between now and then.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Meesh

[major_merrick]

Just keep hanging on, but don't get hurt if it doesn't last. Addicts sometimes make great short-term progress, only to relapse again. I'm sure you're aware of that, and I hope things go well for both of you.

[crispytoast]

He's trading his addictions for other addictions -- you & Al-Anon. And he's taking over your life. He's always going to be focused on staying clean or getting high and it will be all encompassing. Every action he takes will be under scrutiny, you will be wondering if he relapsed or is being honest with you. Is this truly something you are willing to live with?

[Meesh]

He's trading his addictions for other addictions -- you & Al-Anon. And he's taking over your life. He's always going to be focused on staying clean or getting high and it will be all encompassing. Every action he takes will be under scrutiny, you will be wondering if he relapsed or is being honest with you. Is this truly something you are willing to live with?

 

Al-Anon is something that I attend, not him. I've been going every week or so lately and I find it very helpful. It's a 12-step/support group for loved ones in family or romantic relationships with alcoholics/addicts. I haven't worked with a sponsor or done my own steps yet but something I plan to. He goes to his own meetings as part of recovery. Right now he's going daily. Is attending meetings trading an addiction? I don't think so. Yes, it's something that takes focus and priority, but I really don't feel it's fair to say addicts or alcoholics going to meetings is trading an addiction. People who go to these meetings are trying to break the addiction and patterns. That's the whole goal.

 

I don't feel that he's using me as an addiction or that he's taking over my life either. I can choose to always be worried, or take every action of his under scrutiny, or to not trust or constantly wonder if I can trust him or if he will relapse. I can choose to check in on him or lose sleep wondering if he will relapse or not. But I'm not going to do those things. THAT is codependency. That is something that Al-Anon talks about specifically, detaching. What he does or doesn't do is out of my control, not about me, and nothing I could cause or prevent. Knowing that makes it much easier to live a happy life.

 

I feel very centered in my own life right now. He's not monopolizing my time or energy. He makes a point and effort to be in my life daily, if we don't see each other we have a phone call or two instead. Last night he worked on his step work after the meeting and I had my own meeting and visited with a friend afterwards. We talked on the phone before bed. I have my own commitments, I'm taking care of my health daily, mentally and physically. Focusing on working out and therapy, going to my weekly meeting. I go to a women's group once a month also that is helpful just to have support. I have an active social life. My world doesn't revolve around him.

 

Right now I go back and forth often. Some days I think I could easily just say forget this, he lied and is an addict I don't want this in my life and dump him. Then I think if I did that now I would be miserable and lonely and hurt and miss him. I already know that being apart is physically painful. When we are together we are and have always been very happy, it feels good and we're in love and love each other and have grown very close. He told me he can't imagine not having me in his life and of recent, since he's been clean and clear headed he wants to actively build a future together and I believe he does want that with me. Putting into practice is another thing though.

 

I remind myself of the 90 day probation period. There's no set timeframe but for me sometimes it helps to have a goal. In many ways I am curious to see what he does and if the actions line up with the words. He's asked me to please give him that chance, so I guess I am right now.

 

One thing I do know is I trust myself. My therapist tells me to do what feels right for me at the time, whether that is not be with him, not talk, or talk or see him if I want to. I haven't come to a 'choice' all in yet, I really don't need to make any decision right this second either. I'm not looking too far ahead right now. I know that I will make the right decision for me when I'm ready. I don't have to stick around. I could separate completely from him and try and move on. But I would be devastated and hurt and lonely. I would second guess myself. Which is why I haven't ended it. It's really hard to do that when you're in love.

[Beendaredonedat]

detaching. What he does or doesn't do is out of my control, not about me, and nothing I could cause or prevent. Knowing that makes it much easier to live a happy life.

that'a girl. *two thumbs up*

[spiderowl]

One of the things I really disliked about smokers (and I mean tobacco here not pot or other things) was that when they needed to smoke they started getting twitchy and short-tempered. I knew that they no longer wanted to chat and that the cigarette was the only thing on their minds at that point. I knew I could never be with a smoker. One of my parents smoked and in the end died from a smoking-related condition. This was the final straw for me really as far as any addiction goes.

 

I guess my attitude to any addiction now is the same - I don't want to be part of the ups and downs. I do not want to worry if they are hiding anything. It makes me vulnerable to their addictive behaviour. Why start on the wrong foot?

 

I really wish you the best. I think you are giving him a chance. I doubt he will succeed without a lot of daily support (meetings, etc.). In fact, someone on the radio today said how miserable he felt having 'given up' drugs. He had only done it for others. If someone really feels like that - and I can imagine they would because pain is pain and we all want to avoid that - then how long will that abstinence last?

[crispytoast]

My problem with the addiction recovery camp is that it calls for absolute abstinence and basically makes people feel guilty for messing up. Drugs aren't inherently bad, it's about how & when you use them. In many European countries, they teach healthy life choices and responsible usage and their drug issue is better off than in the US. American society is often worse for drug users and their friends and family than the drug use itself is.

 

 

 

Also this is just my opinion but my personal experience with NA is that it is basically a religious anti drug cult. It works for some people and I'm sure it's better in some places than others but it's an antiquated concept and there are better methods to treatment that don't require an obsessive life commitment or the religious tackiness.

Edited July 28, 2019 by crispytoast

[Mr. Lucky]

Crispy, you seem to be confusing social drug use with full blown addiction. For someone completely ensnared, there are no ‘responsible’ or ‘healthy’ ways to use drugs.

 

And being comfortably agnostic hasn’t stopped me from attending many NA and NarAnon meetings. Ones higher power can be the group dynamic or the support of the sponsor.

 

It’s a long way from a cult...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BaileyB]

My problem with the addiction recovery camp is that it calls for absolute abstinence. Drugs aren't inherently bad, it's about how & when you use them.

 

Also this is just my opinion but my personal experience with NA is that it is basically an anti drug cult.

 

Is that not their very mission, their reason for being? I’m curious to know how you think it is possible for AA or NA to serve those with alcohol and drug addiction and not be “anti-drug?”

 

Let’s remember, those with drug addictions do not have the ability to use responsibly. It’s not about how and when you take drugs - for many, complete abstinence is the only way to prevent the drug use from taking over their lives.

[crispytoast]

Crispy, you seem to be confusing social drug use with full blown addiction. For someone completely ensnared, there are no ‘responsible’ or ‘healthy’ ways to use drugs.

No I'm not. I have friends who were hardcore into heroin when they were younger who kicked the habit without the help of NA. They still continue to smoke weed and do a variety of other drugs recreationally and they are incredibly successful people. One just sold a multi-million dollar company that they helped build from the ground.

 

It’s a long way from a cult...

Cult - a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

 

Nope it's definitely a cult. And it's built on an antiquated view of drug use and recovery. If it works for people and that's what makes them happy though, then I guess more power to them. I just would personally not recommend it to anyone and really do not think it is close to the best way to solve the problem of addiction.

 

By the way, Bill Wilson, the founder of Alc-Anon, used LSD, found it useful to his own recovery, and believed it could be used to treat addiction but it did not sit well with other members of AA so it was never implemented.

[crispytoast]

Is that not their very mission, their reason for being? I’m curious to know how you think it is possible for AA or NA to serve those with alcohol and drug addiction and not be “anti-drug?”

 

Let’s remember, those with drug addictions do not have the ability to use responsibly. It’s not about how and when you take drugs - for many, complete abstinence is the only way to prevent the drug use from taking over their lives.

That is a myth that has been perpetuated by the AA/NA camp. It may be true to them but it's not true for everyone. Personally I am of the belief that they manifest that reality in their own lives.

How can they serve people with addiction without being anti-drug? First of all, by incorporating modern science. It has been proven time and time again through research that the responsible use of psychedelics aids in addiction recovery and works quicker and has a higher rate of lasting success. Of course American society's draconic view on drugs and drug culture is making their implementation in the world of recovery (which is much broader than addiction recovery) move at a painstakingly slow pace.