Polarization makes it hard to keep friends

[Kevin_D]

I have something that I need to get of my chest. Loveshack helped me a great deal when I was dumped six years ago, so perhaps you can help me again.

Anyway, my problem is that it's getting really hard for me to keep my friends. We're talking about people I've known for 25 years and never had a problem with before. It seems that almost everybody has suddenly become really passionate about politics, and not only that... they simply can't accept that there are people that think differently and they are immediately labelled as "evil" or "ignorant".

I'm generally not a believed in movements, because things tend to get out of hand. Also, I believe that in order to achieve change, you must work towards a goal for a long time. So I'm not a big fan of Me Too, Fridays for Future or Black Lives Matters, even though I support the causes. I think that people in large groups that dehumanize people who don't agree with them are dangerous, whether they are nazis, soccer hooligans or religious fanatics. 

Anyway, I'm not looking for a political debate, I just wanted to give you some background. Because what happens is, that these "good guys" constantly accuse me of being racist, that I hate women, that i don't care about the environment and so on simply because I question these movements. And it's not like they try to convince me or change my mind, it's pure hate. And it's coming from people who didn't even care to vote ~3 years ago. 

For many years, when these attacks weren't as frequent, I spent many nights - far too many - thinking about these things. Perhaps they were right? Perhaps I am selfish? Perhaps I do need to change? But I've finally realised that this is pretty much fashion. My "friends" are the ones cheating on their girlfriends. They are the ones that always buy the latest mobile phone and a new car every few years. They are the ones that live in areas where there are no black people. But yet they accuse me of being a chauvinist, a racist, a dirty capitalist and so on. And they don't say these things as jokes, no, it's pure hate in their eyes. I think this hypocrisy is what makes it hurts so much. If I felt that they were really decent people who just believed so strongly in these causes, perhaps it would be easier to accept. But it's like it's just for show. It's like they are possessed, like they can't even hear what I say. 

I've tried pretty much everything. To avoid these discussions all together and just be silent. To participate in the discussions while being as polite and rational as possible. It's not working, because even silence is interpreted as not standing up for these good causes. So finally I decided to do what I never wanted to do... I decided to hang out with friends that shared my views instead. It really felt like I was giving up, since this actually contributes to the polarization that I despise so much. But I just couldn't stand the constant insults from my so-called "friends" anymore.

And they lived happily ever after, right? Wrong. Because I discovered that my other friends have also gone completely insane. They think that everything is a big conspiracy, that Covid-19 is fake, that WTC never happened, that George Floyd was a paid actor... it never ends. I can't stand these people either. They view themselves as critical thinkers, but they've way gone too far. They've lost touch with reality. And ironically, they mock me for being too "naïve".

I know what you think. These are just bad friends. Get new ones. But my problem is that I somehow always find myself in the middle. And like I said earlier, my friends weren't like this a few years ago. This "If you don't agree with me, you're against me and therefore a bad person" is something new and I feel like it's spreading like a disease through society. I want to be able to discuss things with my friends, I want to have friends with a different view than mine because that's how you grow wiser. 

I'm usually a quite social individual but it feels as I can't stand most people anymore and it really depresses me. It's like almost no one thinks for themselves. It feels like I'm an atheist in a church. It's like almost everybody, whether they are on the left or the right,  follows these sets of rules, and if you don't agree with them, you're basically a bad person that deserves to be mocked and insulted. 

I should add that I have people in my life that I can to. My loving girlfriend, my mother, a few of my old friends... But I feel that the problem is growing. 

Again,  this isn't a political topic, so I don't want to discuss whether Black Lives Matter is a good idea or not. But please share your stories. Do you agree that this problem has gotten worse in recent years? Have you experienced this yourself, for example, that you avoid speaking your mind because you're afraid that you will be shut out of the group? And most importantly, do you have any advice?

Thank you for taking your time. :-)

 

[Emilie Jolie]

I've not experienced it personally, because I've always chosen friends who very closely align with my values, to be frank. 

I've always been politically minded and active, which actually involves having to work with people you don't agree with, but on the whole you just respect the differences of opinion. In my close circle however, I have a zero tolerance for any form of racism, bigotry or other extreme views. My mind switches off automatically. I'm not great at compartmentalising and can't be close with anyone who has shown a tiny bit of casual racism or intolerance, even if they're good people with great qualities.

Politics in terms of differences in economics is not that important to me, though.

So yeah, sorry, the advice would be to get friends who are more aligned with your values-there must be some, surely?

Edited June 11, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[ShyViolet]

I'm assuming you are in the US.  Our country is more polarized than ever, and that's just an unfortunate reality.  I will resist the temptation to get into the issues.  But honestly I would not be able to be friends with someone who has opposite political views as mine, not in this political climate, not with what we know about the world and all that is going on.  I find people on the opposite end of the spectrum reprehensible and I can't just hang out with them and pretend everything is ok.  These issues do matter a lot.

[nospam99]

OP said: ''everybody has suddenly become really passionate about politics''

IMO it's NOT 'suddenly'. The mainstream media has 'stoked the embers' by consistently biased negative reporting about Trump. This is what has intensified the existing divisiveness in the US. BTW they also had a positive bias with respect to Barrack and Hillary. For reference, I'm referring to CNN, Washington Post, MSNBC, NYT as well as many other less obviously blatant media. The one major media on 'the right' is Fox. Then you have the several right wingnuts like Rush on 'talk radio'.

[Ellener]

I think for me who I choose as people to hang out with depends a lot on their positivity and kindness, if someone is always dwelling on negativity or bitching they won't be a good fit for me whatever their beliefs. I like people with good manners too, it's often inappropriate and rude to lecture or get angry. If I don't like how someone's behaving they'll probably know by my expression, but I'd rather say 'let's talk about something else' most of the time. 

I have friends from all different backgrounds and I refuse to discuss politics with some of them, or religion, they just haven't read widely enough or experienced much outside their own world. It's not my job to tell them what to think but I wouldn't be quiet just to belong in a group either. 

It's in a poem I like, Desiderata: 

Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. 

[d0nnivain]

I enjoy lively debates & many in my circle are professional politicians so the back & forth is the norm. 

Part of it is separating political views from the person as a whole.  

Sometimes you just have to speak up.  I was in a high level strategy meeting for the candidate of my choice about 20 years.  His opponent a member of the other party was my personal friend.  I loved her but disagreed with her on the issues.  As we were discussing things people who didn't know the opposing candidate started saying malicious untruthful things about her.  I spoke up & said, "hey wait a minute.  She's my friend & she's a good person.  Most of that crap you just spewed is just not true.  Talk about why she's wrong on the issues.  That is what we are here for & I tell her that to her face all the time but if I ever hear you defame her again, I promise I will the star witness when she sues you!"  The candidate & the campaign manager thanked me for my outburst & we kept the campaign on track about issues refraining from personal attacks that had nothing to do with her fitness for office.  

Other phrases that can help deescalate the vitriol include

I like & respect you but disagree with your position on that issue. 

Can we agree to disagree? 

In light of ____, can you please explain to me how you continue to support _____? 

What can you & I do to possibly find a consensus? 

Taking a deep breath before you speak also helps.  So does staying off social media.  

[schlumpy]

13 hours ago, Kevin_D said:

I have something that I need to get of my chest. Loveshack helped me a great deal when I was dumped six years ago, so perhaps you can help me again.

Anyway, my problem is that it's getting really hard for me to keep my friends. We're talking about people I've known for 25 years and never had a problem with before. It seems that almost everybody has suddenly become really passionate about politics, and not only that... they simply can't accept that there are people that think differently and they are immediately labelled as "evil" or "ignorant".

I for the most part agree with you. Who you vote for has moved up the list of qualities that people want in a friend. I've had several people over the last couple of years distance themselves because they felt we wouldn't agree on politics. That's their choice but it not what I seek in a friendship.

I belong to a folk music society and I would say that the average age of the membership is above 55. The overwhelming political viewpoint is liberal or progressive. Your choice as to what label you prefer. I sit through a lot of testimonials from musicians on all types of liberal subjects promoting tolerance, inclusiveness, and whatever liberal thought pattern is impressing itself on society at this moment. These people are very sincere and truly believe what they are saying and the audience is very receptive. 

I've done a few sets in front of everyone but I don't proselytize because that would get me ostracized.

Instead, I look at the faces of around 50 people and note that there not one ethnic face among them. I grin at the irony of it and then I sing a song about sharing, loving and inclusiveness.

[Libby1]

13 hours ago, Kevin_D said:

Again,  this isn't a political topic, so I don't want to discuss whether Black Lives Matter is a good idea or not. But please share your stories. Do you agree that this problem has gotten worse in recent years? Have you experienced this yourself, for example, that you avoid speaking your mind because you're afraid that you will be shut out of the group? And most importantly, do you have any advice?

Thank you for taking your time. 🙂

 

People are definitely more political, in my view.  Various friends of mine who never showed an interest in politics before suddenly have strong opinions on a variety of things...and of course, social media amplifies it.  I agree with D0nnivain that staying off social media is one way of addressing it, but that's tricky at times when we're all a bit more socially restricted than we were.  People are sitting home watching the news and venting on social media - so the problem is far worse than usual just now.  

From the behaviour I've seen from some people on my FB friends list, I definitely know a few of the sort of people who will end long term friendships over politics...since I've seen the fall out on Facebook.  But usually from the way those arguments play out, it seems to be less about politics and more about an inability to handle conflict or disagreement.  I absolutely agree with you that too many people out there are quick to demonise anybody who doesn't share their political stance, and I avoid getting to close to people like that. Even if I happen to agree with them on a particular point, it's only a matter of time before you're going to find yourself in disagreement with them.  

Usually I find that when people have strong opinions about a particular subject, they won't be that interested in hearing my views.  They just want to vent.  I'll sympathise where I can, challenge when I see an opportunity to do so constructively...but generally I'll just let them vent a bit and then try to change the subject as tactfully as I can.  There are times I'll get excited about a particular subject, and then I'll see a friend doing exactly that (tactfully changing the subject).  I think most of us have our pet subject areas we feel strongly about and can lose perspective over - but it's never worth losing long term friendships for the sake of these cultural wars (which as often as not, if we think about it, we don't have that much of a stake in anyway).

 

[FMW]

Political differences can also equate to differences in values and the rules by which you live your life.  In my experience, that's where the problems come in. I can respect someone's different opinions on how to spend our tax money.  However I can't respect views that if made into laws would result in unfair treatment based on race, religion, sex, sexual preference, etc.  And there are some issues on which Republicans and Democrats very definitely disagree on what constitutes "unfair", because I'm sure no Republican believes any of their views are unfair.  Therein lies the division. 

I am certainly liberal leaning, although I don't consider myself a strong Democrat.  My family is almost without exception Republicans, and strong ones at that.  I've navigated that difference my entire life just fine.  However I have had to get up and leave the room more than once when the conversations about race came up.  Trying to debate the issue was as useless as some of the threads here on this forum have proven to be. 

I have a few self-proclaimed Republican friends, but our differences are limited to fiscal issues (which actually I'm moderate or more conservative on).  So I have no problems respecting those differences.  

[Kevin_D]

9 hours ago, FMW said:

Political differences can also equate to differences in values and the rules by which you live your life.  In my experience, that's where the problems come in. I can respect someone's different opinions on how to spend our tax money.  However I can't respect views that if made into laws would result in unfair treatment based on race, religion, sex, sexual preference, etc. 

I would agree 100% if things really were that easy. For example, I would understand if people became upset if I said something like "I think black people should make less money because they're black". But these are really complex topics. In order to determine what's "unfair", you must also determine what's "fair". This is the usual "equality of possibilities vs equality of outcome" debate. We can agree that there are problems in our society but in order to improve things I believe that we must be able to discuss things. And my problem is that both the left and the right seem to have adopted this black and white thinking.

[Kevin_D]

10 hours ago, Libby1 said:

People are definitely more political, in my view.  Various friends of mine who never showed an interest in politics before suddenly have strong opinions on a variety of things...and of course, social media amplifies it.  I agree with D0nnivain that staying off social media is one way of addressing it, but that's tricky at times when we're all a bit more socially restricted than we were.  People are sitting home watching the news and venting on social media - so the problem is far worse than usual just now.  

From the behaviour I've seen from some people on my FB friends list, I definitely know a few of the sort of people who will end long term friendships over politics...since I've seen the fall out on Facebook.  But usually from the way those arguments play out, it seems to be less about politics and more about an inability to handle conflict or disagreement.  I absolutely agree with you that too many people out there are quick to demonise anybody who doesn't share their political stance, and I avoid getting to close to people like that. Even if I happen to agree with them on a particular point, it's only a matter of time before you're going to find yourself in disagreement with them.  

Usually I find that when people have strong opinions about a particular subject, they won't be that interested in hearing my views.  They just want to vent.  I'll sympathise where I can, challenge when I see an opportunity to do so constructively...but generally I'll just let them vent a bit and then try to change the subject as tactfully as I can.  There are times I'll get excited about a particular subject, and then I'll see a friend doing exactly that (tactfully changing the subject).  I think most of us have our pet subject areas we feel strongly about and can lose perspective over - but it's never worth losing long term friendships for the sake of these cultural wars (which as often as not, if we think about it, we don't have that much of a stake in anyway).

 

Spot on. You explained it much better than I did. I think it goes even further though. Because these people actually brag about dumping old-time friends. They'll actually tweet comments such as:

"Just found out my childhood friend voted for Trump. So long, sucker! BLOCKED! There's no room for ignorant, hateful simpletons in my life!"

And to my surprise, people will actually approve this behavior. "Wow! What an important statement! We should all be as brave you are". And I can't understand it. This is HATE. The same thing these people claim they want to stop.

[Emilie Jolie]

48 minutes ago, Kevin_D said:

And I can't understand it.

It's difficult to understand why very close friends would end long-standing, valued friendships over politics alone, especially if, as you say, your views are very tame or neutral, and you don't really engage in political debates. Are you really losing every single one of your friends from 'both' sides over politic? If so, something is amiss.

[dangerous]

People focus on politics more when they are bored, unhappy, angry etc and wider, typically when the economy is bad: Covid has therefore been the prefect storm. So we will all hear more political views from many people for a long while. Just look at the media: they are loving all this negativity and woe!

Its a tricky one because even if you are trying to be neutral or non-active then many will force their views or poke you until they get a response.

Personally, I've given up on politics in the wider sense. If its under my control I try to act, if its not then I avoid the subject. 

As to your friends OP, your choices are:

1. Drop them

2. Tolerate. Perhaps avoid debate.

3. Spend more time with people you like (regardless of their views) as long as they respect your opinion or right to abstain. You should not be obliged to agree, or even comment if you don't wish to.

[basil67]

Not only when the economy is bad - it happens when a country has a polarising leader.  I’ve seen social media go from loud to quiet on politics.   No matter whether Left or Right, it mostly goes back to the leadership style.  

Our most recent time of this was all under conservative government.  Tony Abbott got much much hate - then Malcolm Turnbull came to power and  social media went quiet - then Scott Morrison came in and we’re hating again.   

[Libby1]

On 6/11/2020 at 2:08 AM, Kevin_D said:

Anyway, I'm not looking for a political debate, I just wanted to give you some background. Because what happens is, that these "good guys" constantly accuse me of being racist, that I hate women, that i don't care about the environment and so on simply because I question these movements. And it's not like they try to convince me or change my mind, it's pure hate. And it's coming from people who didn't even care to vote ~3 years ago. 

For many years, when these attacks weren't as frequent, I spent many nights - far too many - thinking about these things. Perhaps they were right? Perhaps I am selfish? Perhaps I do need to change? But I've finally realised that this is pretty much fashion. And they don't say these things as jokes, no, it's pure hate in their eyes. I think this hypocrisy is what makes it hurts so much. If I felt that they were really decent people who just believed so strongly in these causes, perhaps it would be easier to accept. But it's like it's just for show. It's like they are possessed, like they can't even hear what I say. 

I've tried pretty much everything. To avoid these discussions all together and just be silent. To participate in the discussions while being as polite and rational as possible. It's not working, because even silence is interpreted as not standing up for these good causes. So finally

I know what you think. These are just bad friends. Get new ones. But my problem is that I somehow always find myself in the middle. And like I said earlier, my friends weren't like this a few years ago. This "If you don't agree with me, you're against me and therefore a bad person" is something new and I feel like it's spreading like a disease through society. I want to be able to discuss things with my friends, I want to have friends with a different view than mine because that's how you grow wiser. 

I'm usually a quite social individual but it feels as I can't stand most people anymore and it really depresses me. It's like almost no one thinks for themselves. It feels like I'm an atheist in a church. It's like almost everybody, whether they are on the left or the right,  follows these sets of rules, and if you don't agree with them, you're basically a bad person that deserves to be mocked and insulted. 

I should add that I have people in my life that I can to. My loving girlfriend, my mother, a few of my old friends... But I feel that the problem is growing. 

Again,  this isn't a political topic, so I don't want to discuss whether Black Lives Matter is a good idea or not. But please share your stories. Do you agree that this problem has gotten worse in recent years? Have you experienced this yourself, for example, that you avoid speaking your mind because you're afraid that you will be shut out of the group? And most importantly, do you have any advice?

Thank you for taking your time. 🙂

 

I just wanted to revisit this, since I've seen quite a bit of facebook conflict between friends on Facebook lately.  Two people in particular, who are best friends and who I know have supported eachother through many hard times, look like they're in danger of ending their friendship for good over emerging political differences.  It's really sad, but reflective of the recent tone of political debate which encourages people to reject those closest to them if they don't express the right political views.  The "Silence is Violence" slogan in particular seems to be about forcing people to become political.  The problem with that is that there are a lot of people out there who have never taken much interest in politics.  Suddenly they're being demonised if they don't participate actively in politics...and so what are they going to do?  We're social animals.  In most cases, they're going to do whatever they need to do to preserve as much of their support network as they can.

If your friends have only recently become interested in politics, how well equipped are they to even begin to understand the complex issues that political debate seeks to address?  When people like that feel forced to enter into the political arena, the chances are that they'll fend off difficult questions by being aggressive.  If the context is strictly a social one (rather than being in a setting where the person asking the difficult questions is doing their job) a lot of times it will work, because most people don't want to get into prolonged vitriolic conflict.  It rarely seems worth it.  

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My "friends" are the ones cheating on their girlfriends. They are the ones that always buy the latest mobile phone and a new car every few years. They are the ones that live in areas where there are no black people. But yet they accuse me of being a chauvinist, a racist, a dirty capitalist and so on.

Well, hypocrisy is an easy way for people to feel virtuous...and when the climate turns somewhat oppressive (in terms of people feeling less able to question any narratives that are being held out as absolute truths) hypocrisy probably starts feeling like a necessary part of maintaining your support network and generally surviving.  We're herd animals, after all.  It's difficult to question a narrative when hardly anybody else is, and when anybody who does is demonised.

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I decided to do what I never wanted to do... I decided to hang out with friends that shared my views instead. It really felt like I was giving up, since this actually contributes to the polarization that I despise so much. But I just couldn't stand the constant insults from my so-called "friends" anymore.

And they lived happily ever after, right? Wrong. Because I discovered that my other friends have also gone completely insane. They think that everything is a big conspiracy, that Covid-19 is fake, that WTC never happened, that George Floyd was a paid actor... it never ends. I can't stand these people either. They view themselves as critical thinkers, but they've way gone too far. They've lost touch with reality. And ironically, they mock me for being too "naïve".

The Covid-19 is fake thing seems to be a pretty common belief in the US.  A "bewildered herd" sort of response....trying to make sense of a world where it almost seems as though an automatic tennis ball thrower is being employed to spit out problems and conflicts at a rate and speed that sends our brains into overdrive trying to make sense of it all.

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Do you agree that this problem has gotten worse in recent years? Have you experienced this yourself, for example, that you avoid speaking your mind because you're afraid that you will be shut out of the group?

Yes, it's got worse.  For me, it started to get bad in 2014 when my country held a referendum on whether it should remain in the UK.  A lot of people who had never been interested in politics began to take an interest.  Which is great, in some ways, but it does often result in people being pretty extreme on account of lack of info and time to think properly encouraging them to see things in black and white.

I wouldn't say that I avoid speaking my mind, but I don't really get anything out of discussing politics with people who take a very black and white view.  The only purpose they see to discussion is to push an agenda, whereas I think discussion is about developing your thinking, getting other perspectives etc.  It's difficult to have those sorts of discussions in a social context, though.  They're more suited to the more thoughtful political discussion programmes (minus a noisy audience) or some of the political podcasts out there where podcasters invite people they don't necessarily agree with onto the show and manage to have a decent discussion.

Most of my discussions about politics with friends tend to involve little more than a mutual agreement that we are part of the bewildered herd finding it hard to make sense of rapid changes, and worrying that the people pushing for those changes aren't really thinking things through all that carefully.  Which is a pretty conservative sort of outlook.  I generally take the view that left wing activism (more usually from the young) is necessary for change, and conservatism (more from the 35+ age range) is necessary to apply some brakes to those changes so that they don't lead to chaos.  But things are so polarised now that there isn't really scope for society to function in that way.  So we're in for some dramatic changes, and I guess all most of us can do is manage our reactions to those changes as best as we can.  

There are a lot of tools out there for helping to manage conflict that's going on around you and that you feel drawn into.  All my life, I have relied on various theories of psychology to help me make some sense of difficult situations.  Society is very dysfunctional at the moment.  Personally I think Donald Trump as a president contributes vastly to that, since he's used his time in office to behave a) like an internet troll on twitter, and b) to employ the negotiating approach I mentioned earlier (ie use bluster and bullying tactics on anybody who's asking you difficult questions or refusing to concede to your demands).  His whole reality tv show career was about pitting people against eachother and mocking/punishing any contestants who tried to behave honourably towards other contestants. 

It seems like there isn't very much of a responsible adult behind that Apprentice Showman facade, and I'm not surprised that under his leadership the US has become so drastically polarised and  rife with conspiracy theories.  Or that a far more radical, aggressive political left has emerged which seems to have decided "okay, since America voted this guy in and obviously admires/panders to this kind of approach, we're going to use it too.  And by the way, we've bought guns too."  

Sorry, I know you don't want it to get political...but I do think that by embracing Donald Trump, the Republican Party took an existing problem (of an already angry, polarised society) and made it many times worse.

 

[Piddy]

  

On 6/10/2020 at 8:08 PM, Kevin_D said:

They think that everything is a big conspiracy, that Covid-19 is fake, that WTC never happened, that George Floyd was a paid actor... it never ends. I can't stand these people either. They view themselves as critical thinkers, but they've way gone too far. They've lost touch with reality. And ironically, they mock me for being too "naïve

I have a neighbor that thinks like this.  Luckily I don't talk to him much.  The other day he came to my door to ask me about some work I was having done on our house.  He mentioned that the Covid-19 virus was a hoax.  I didn't bother engaging with him on that.  These type people aren't critical thinkers, they're ignorant. 

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I should add that I have people in my life that I can to. My loving girlfriend, my mother, a few of my old friends... But I feel that the problem is growing. 

Again,  this isn't a political topic, so I don't want to discuss whether Black Lives Matter is a good idea or not. But please share your stories. Do you agree that this problem has gotten worse in recent years? Have you experienced this yourself, for example, that you avoid speaking your mind because you're afraid that you will be shut out of the group? And most importantly, do you have any advice?

Thank you for taking your time. 🙂

 

Yes it has gotten worse recently.  One of the parties has been hijacked by a wing of the party (nutty conspiracy theories, anti-science etc.) which used to be on the fringe and then we elected a president who traffics in crazy conspiracy theories (think birtherism etc.) and makes his own reality up with lies on a daily basis. 

When Trump got elected I played golf with men who said they didn't have to keep their mouths shut anymore and could now say racist things out loud.   Basically what Trump did was take what was dog whistle before and started using a bull horn.  And so we are where we are.

My advice is to speak your mind.  If what they say sounds nuts to you say so.   I do have friends (more like golf buddies) who are on the right (conservative) side of the political spectrum.  I tell them exactly what I think.  I don't attack them personally,  but if they say something I think is nutty, I'll try to tell them that what they believe is nuts.  

I won't do that with my neighbor though.  I'll let him wallow in his crazy thinking.  After all we can pick out friends, but not our neighbors.  

And it will only get worse with all the bots etc. spreading all kinds of lies and conspiracy theories on social media.  There's no such thing as alternate facts.  There's only one truth.  I guess I'd say there's too many stupid gullible people out there.  

One thing I would advocate for is teaching civics in school.  Too many people are civically ignorant, which makes one susceptible to believing falsehoods.  

Luckily all my family members are politically aligned.  It would be tough in this political climate to have family on the opposite side politically.  I did lose a friend recently because of politics.  She would say it wasn't, but politics was at the heart of the matter.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed group berating.

[homecoming]

I was friends with someone who had started to develop quite extreme views on conspiracy theories - flat earth, 5G, stuff like that. It became increasingly difficult to have simple conversations because she would refer back to these things constantly, and would often send me links to petitions of things to do with pseudoscientific concepts, even after I told her, quite politely, that I wasn't really interested in things like that (mainly because I find it nonsense, but I tried to be respectful because I cared about her). After a while, it became clear that she wasn't really listening to me, and I felt like she was forcing her views on me all the time, and we had a few arguments before I just decided to end the friendship. Feels a bit harsh now that I"m talking about it, but I think it two people with different views can't get on, then they shouldn't be friends. If you're able to hold different views, but respect each other's viewpoints and don't try and force beliefs on each other, then perhaps it can work.

[Haydn]

20 minutes ago, homecoming said:

I was friends with someone who had started to develop quite extreme views on conspiracy theories - flat earth, 5G, stuff like that. It became increasingly difficult to have simple conversations because she would refer back to these things constantly, and would often send me links to petitions of things to do with pseudoscientific concepts, even after I told her, quite politely, that I wasn't really interested in things like that (mainly because I find it nonsense, but I tried to be respectful because I cared about her). After a while, it became clear that she wasn't really listening to me, and I felt like she was forcing her views on me all the time, and we had a few arguments before I just decided to end the friendship. Feels a bit harsh now that I"m talking about it, but I think it two people with different views can't get on, then they shouldn't be friends. If you're able to hold different views, but respect each other's viewpoints and don't try and force beliefs on each other, then perhaps it can work.

Similar to me on Brexit. I lost some friends who i was taken aback with over their reasons for voting leave. I received not one answer that gave any economic reason, it was purely racism. They had to go. No regrets just sorry that very soon their lives will be worse. But this is a huge topic...

[ThaWholigan]

For what it's worth, I can relate to your position - if only because I experienced a burnout in terms of politics aswell and very much erred on the side of healthy skepticism.

One must remember though, that for a lot of people out there, their lives are heavily affected directly by politics and it's unavoidable for a lot of them - which is why they have such strong opinions the way that they do, and understandably so. I'm a black man from London and I've been mostly a political figure among most of my friend groups - while I have never let it get in the way of my interactions, I am pretty firm on most of what I stand for (pro-black, anarchist, pro-BLM, pro-LGBTQ etc). For some people within these communities, it's not enough to passively support them, and I would say that if it's not something you feel comfortable doing, then you probably shouldn't be around them. As strong as I am in my beliefs, I find excessive dogma to be tiring at times too. But it helps to be understanding about why they feel strongly about it - no matter how messed  up their personal lives may be!

[Paul]

Greetings!

The topic at hand in this discussion is how polarizing viewpoints impact the ability to form and maintain social connections and relationships. Please be mindful that your responses are focused on the topic (impact on relationships) and avoid discussions espousing or denouncing the validity or character of any particular polarized point of view.

Best,
Paul

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, ThaWholigan said:

I am pretty firm on most of what I stand for (pro-black, anarchist, pro-BLM, pro-LGBTQ etc). For some people within these communities, it's not enough to passively support them, and I would say that if it's not something you feel comfortable doing, then you probably shouldn't be around them. As strong as I am in my beliefs, I find excessive dogma to be tiring at times too.

That's why I, a Christian, joined the Unitarian Universalist church. 

Our principles are basic:  human worth and dignity; equity and compassion; acceptance of one another; search for truth; the democratic process; peace, liberty, and justice for all; respect.

'Basic respect'. I am thinking of a time I gave a sanctimonious lecture to young women in local authority care ( it was meant to reduce teen pregnancy ) and one of the women I was closely working with initiated a hand held up sign and 'basic respect' as my moniker. Despite the sarcasm it was a positive thing for us all!

[preraph]

Avoid the discussions.  Avoid them for the time being altogether.  It's usually people just going on emotion and little substance anyway or they would be able to tolerate a discussion about it.  They likely know they can't win a debate, so they are just emoting and mad if you don't just agree.  I would avoid them for the time being.  Ignore them if they broach the subject.  Communicate only with text or email so you can just ignore the parts you want to without effort.  If you write to ask how someone is doing and wishing them well just to touch base and they come back with a diatribe about politics, just don't respond about it.  

[gaius]

Simple solution, spare yourself the drama and just don't have friends. I haven't made one since high school and the last one went in the rubbish bin over a decade ago. The whole concept is totally overated.

Now aquaintainces, that you can chat with for 5 minutes whenever you accidentally run into each other, that's where it's at. It's a lot easier to be cool with whatever nonsense comes out of their mouth when you're always just one "gotta run!" away from not being obligated to them in any way, shape or form. 

[LivingWaterPlease]

I definitely notice the polarization in our country. What I see is that some folks are becoming kinder and some are becoming more hateful. I don't really care what someone believes politically but if they express it hatefully I'm probably not going to want to be friends with them. Most of my close friends view most political things the same way as I do. But there are people I really like who see things differently. 

With my close friends I mostly like to focus on talking about what's going on in their lives and with that, there's plenty to talk about!

I really don't care to be close friends with anyone who is negative whether or not they see current events the same way I do or not.

[schlumpy]

I think it's much easier to have friends with opposing political views if their reasons for believing as they do has a personal effect as opposed to a theoretical effect on their lives. Understanding their support for a competing ideology because they got a good government job that was provide by the last official the helped to elect is common ground in my mind. It's a rational reason I can relate to.