Combating Racism in America

[SincereOnlineGuy]

1 hour ago, enigma32 said:

I have noticed that some people think being racist in favor of black people is a good way to fight racism. Doesn't make much sense to me but I am a white guy and I'm told to just shut up and listen.

... except there is nothing 'racist' about the mentioned gesture.

 

It might be discriminatory, but it isn't "racist".

 

We're guessing you think that to waive fees for Sickle Cell Anemia testing is somehow "racist" too.

 

Heck, why stop there? 

 

You probably think that to waive fees for Covid testing is "racist" as well.

[sothereiwas]

11 minutes ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

It might be discriminatory, but it isn't "racist".

It's racially discriminatory. Until activists recently started convincing publishers to alter some of the definitions, racism had a useful meaning, now it's getting murky, because the people who like to complain about it fear accurate descriptions of things. 

[jspice]

22 hours ago, enigma32 said:

I think that discriminating against a person or a group of people based on their race is racist, yes. Not sure when that suddenly stopped being racist.

 

22 hours ago, sothereiwas said:

It's racially discriminatory. Until activists recently started convincing publishers to alter some of the definitions, racism had a useful meaning, now it's getting murky, because the people who like to complain about it fear accurate descriptions of things. 

You all shouldn’t worry too much though. 
If things turn out in a way that ends up with White people being constantly discriminated against, according to your own assertions, all it will take is working hard to get back to your position you’re in now. Things might get taken away from you, but fret not. 

Pull yourselves up by your bootstraps. You can work two jobs and the Black people will really respect you for that. 
 

You’ve laid out a great game plan here. Looking forward to your amazing senses of humour when the next Black President “jokes”  about Things that are important to you all. 
 

You’ll all be ok. 
 

 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

22 hours ago, enigma32 said:

I think that discriminating against a person or a group of people based on their race is racist, yes. Not sure when that suddenly stopped being racist.

 

What you think simply isn't relevant to the definition of racism.

 

racism

noun

a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

 

[TheStickisback]

On 6/23/2020 at 2:17 PM, lana-banana said:

We already know what happened after the stimulus checks went out: poverty fell! Despite people not working, not going out, etc, poverty actually fell in April and May because of federal assistance. (NYT, June 21st, 2020, "Vast Federal Aid Has Capped Rise in Poverty, Studies Find"). 

People were not wasting the money on drugs and bad decisions. The vast majority of people who needed it the most used it as intended: they paid critical bills and tried to take care of themselves. If we continued this in the long-term we could actually make a meaningful stab at addressing poverty in this country. 

Only to increase national debt and lead us closer to a collapse of the dollar. Printing more money isn't going to solve poverty. Creating an environment where small business can thrive and new ones can be created. Then create a playing field where there is true competitiveness among businesses will eliminate poverty

[lana-banana]

5 hours ago, TheStickisback said:

Only to increase national debt and lead us closer to a collapse of the dollar. Printing more money isn't going to solve poverty. Creating an environment where small business can thrive and new ones can be created. Then create a playing field where there is true competitiveness among businesses will eliminate poverty

Nobody said anything about printing money, just just collecting taxes. You know, like the rest of the world. 

We have had wholly unfettered free market capitalism with almost negligible taxes since Nixon/Reagan. The result has been the wholesale destruction of the middle class, the end of the social safety net, and creating a literal handful of billionaires who own most of the wealth in America. It hasn't worked. Let's try caring more about people than businesses for a change.

[mark clemson]

My belief is the majority of cops are either good people or "okay" people doing their jobs. But let's get real - not ALL cops are wonderful heros...

https://news.yahoo.com/3-north-carolina-police-officers-112750994.html

[vjk]

18 hours ago, enigma32 said:

I notice you eliminated the part you did not agree with. Here we go, copied and pasted from Merriam-Webster. Notice the part in bold. It appears what I think racism is, actually IS what racism is. 

Definition of racism

1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2a: a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles

b: a political or social system founded on racism

3: racial prejudice or discrimination

 

I picked a hard copy of Webster's dictionary off my shelf from 2006.  It says " A belief that some races are by nature superior to others: discrimination based on such a belief".  I don't accept the new definition either, because number 3 makes it a different meaning. You can believe every one has equal human value but still have prejudices.  

Edited June 25, 2020 by vjk

[sothereiwas]

42 minutes ago, vjk said:

I picked a hard copy of Webster's dictionary off my shelf from 2006.  It says " A belief that some races are by nature superior to others: discrimination based on such a belief".  I don't accept the new definition either, because number 3 makes it a different meaning. You can believe every one has equal human value but still have prejudices.  

Of course that older more correct definition means, by definition, that institutions can't be racist. They can be racially discriminatory though. 

[Piddy]

One of the ways to combat racism is to invest in black communities.  Netflix just invested $100 million in black owned banks to help invest in their communities.  Good for Netflix.   

[Ellener]

On 6/21/2020 at 4:57 AM, schlumpy said:

Why do we socialize children Ellener, if they are already born with the innate goodness to help and care for one another?

I think we socialise a lot of prejudice, destructivenes and competitiveness into them...isn't Lord of the Flies an allegory for what happens when people try to establish power and government over others instead of living freely sharing and valuing natural resources and accepting each other?

 

[Ellener]

This was on Verywellmind.com yesterday:

Groupthink is a term first used in 1972 by social psychologist Irving L. Janis that refers to a psychological phenomenon in which people strive for consensus within a group. In many cases, people will set aside their own personal beliefs or adopt the opinion of the rest of the group.

People who are opposed to the decisions or overriding opinion of the group as a whole frequently remain quiet, preferring to keep the peace rather than disrupt the uniformity of the crowd.

...

Janis identified eight different "symptoms" that indicate groupthink:

*Illusions of invulnerability lead members of the group to be overly optimistic and engage in risk-taking.

*Unquestioned beliefs lead members to ignore possible moral problems and ignore the consequences of individual and group actions.

*Rationalizing prevents members from reconsidering their beliefs and causes them to ignore warning signs.

*Stereotyping leads members of the in-group to ignore or even demonize out-group members who may oppose or challenge the group's ideas.

*Self-censorship causes people who might have doubts to hide their fears or misgivings.

*"Mindguards" act as self-appointed censors to hide problematic information from the group.

*Illusions of unanimity lead members to believe that everyone is in agreement and feels the same way.

*Direct pressure to conform is often placed on members who pose questions, and those who question the group are often seen as disloyal or traitorous.

[introverted1]

On 6/25/2020 at 6:49 AM, lana-banana said:

Nobody said anything about printing money, just just collecting taxes. You know, like the rest of the world.

Between federal income tax, medicare tax, social security tax, state income tax, property tax, local/county/state sales tax, gasoline tax, various governmental fees and licenses (also taxes), over half my income goes to taxes.  And I am not rich by any means.  How much more should I and others like me have to give?  How much of my labor is someone else is entitled to? 

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by introverted1

[lana-banana]

7 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Between federal income tax, medicare tax, social security tax, state income tax, property tax, local/county/state sales tax, gasoline tax, various governmental fees and licenses (also taxes), over half my income goes to taxes.  And I am not rich by any means.  How much more should I and others like me have to give?  How much of my labor is someone else is entitled to? 

 

Who said your taxes had to go up? Why can't we levy taxes on the ultra-wealthy, who have gained nearly half a trillion dollars since the pandemic started? What about all the corporations that pay no taxes or receive massive taxpayer refunds every year? What about cutting budgets at the Pentagon and investing in education and transportation?

Edited July 1, 2020 by lana-banana

[introverted1]

1 minute ago, lana-banana said:

Who said your taxes had to go up? Why can't we levy taxes on the ultra-wealthy, who have gained nearly half a trillion dollars since the pandemic started? What about all the corporations that pay no taxes or receive massive taxpayer refunds every year?

Every analysis of taxes on the wealthy that I've seen shows that even at ridiculously high tax rates, there just isn't enough money there to fund [insert name of program here].

Yes, we should close corporate tax loopholes.

A national sales tax (excluding food and with exemptions for certain items) in lieu of an income tax would also help.

[Ellener]

Re. combating racism this is also from verywellmind.com:

The Black Lives Matter movement has likely caused you to think more about racism and is probably making you question some of your own beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors.

A little self-reflection might reveal some uncomfortable truths—such as ways in which you might be having racist thoughts or exhibiting racist behaviors without even realizing it.

Fortunately, there are steps you can take to embark on an anti-racism journey. Raising your own awareness of any biases and stereotypes can be key to breaking down barriers.

1.  Acknowledge Modern Day Racism Exists

Although some people assume that anti-discrimination laws have eliminated racism from society, studies show that this isn’t the case.

Ethnic minorities still experience a great deal of prejudice and discrimination. Studies have found that minorities are:

treated with more suspicion in public places.

less likely to receive employment offers.

judged more harshly for crimes they commit.

more likely to be shot by police officers.

less likely to receive adequate care from physicians.

These are just a few examples. Clearly, many individuals experience racism on a daily basis in many different ways.

So it’s important to acknowledge that minorities are still facing ongoing discrimination. Recognizing that racism exists is the first step toward creating positive change.

2. Recognize Your Prejudice

If you think things like, “I’d never do anything racist,” you might want to check yourself. Research shows people who claim they’re never prejudiced are the most likely to be prejudiced.

A 2019 study published in Personality and Individual Differences found that “the least egalitarian individuals tended to be those who overestimated their levels of egalitarianism the most.” 

Participants were asked to report how egalitarian they believed they were compared with other people in regard to race. Then, they stated how favorable they felt about Black people in the workplace. Finally, participants completed the Implicit Association Test to measure their implicit biases related to race.

Researchers found that those who reported being the most egalitarian displayed the most implicit bias toward Black people.

Other studies have uncovered similar results. People in privileged groups are more likely to deny the existence of bias. And among young people, there’s an impression that racism is “not that bad anymore” or that it only occurs in extreme circumstances.

Some even believe that prejudice against white people is a more serious cause for concern than prejudice against Black people.

Keep in mind that no one is completely prejudiced or not prejudiced at all. It’s a continuum, and everyone possesses stereotypes and biases to some degree that affect how they interact with individuals from other races.

[schlumpy]

46 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

A national sales tax (excluding food and with exemptions for certain items) in lieu of an income tax would also help.

If you open that up to the floor we get both plus a VAT tax.

 

[pepperbird]

this is not necessarily related to the USA-it happens here too.

I count a lot of First Nation's people as friends, and one thing they have all said they find irritating is the way other races seem to see them as one homogeneous group that all thinks and feels the same way.
There's this stereotype that they are all sweetness and light, in tune with nature, spiritual, always getting along, living in peace that sort of thing.
As my friend who is member of the Mohawk nation puts it, that a load of trash, and wipes away a large part of their history and culture. She doesn't like knowing that her ancestors kept slaves, attacked other tribes like the Hurons, etc. but it's part of her heritage. A lot of her tribe's history has been "sanitized", but what has been lost because of that?
It's a question she's been thinking about for some time, but has no answers.

[pepperbird]

I expect the USA, Canada etc. is going to see an influx of refugees feeling the crackdown in Hong Kong. My cousin in married to a man who ( AFAIK) was born in Hong Kong but moved here as a small child. he had gone back to visit family, but left just before the new laws were announced. based on his reports, there's a lot of people there who are hoping to leave if they can. They're mostly the people who can afford to go, while those who can't will have to stay behind.

I hope they're treated well if/when they arrive.

[elaine567]

14 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

. She doesn't like knowing that her ancestors kept slaves, attacked other tribes like the Hurons, etc. but it's part of her heritage. A lot of her tribe's history has been "sanitized", but what has been lost because of that?
It's a question she's been thinking about for some time, but has no answers.

We, every one of us living today, are the descendants of "survivors" . 
People who fought and stole, raped and pillaged, killed and enslaved in order to gain some advantage and thus survived against the odds to pass their genes on to us today.
She may know who her ancestors are and be ashamed of their misdeeds, but no-one can really claim that their ancestors were any better.

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

We, every one of us living today, are the descendants of "survivors" . 
People who fought and stole, raped and pillaged, killed and enslaved in order to gain some advantage and thus survived against the odds to pass their genes on to us today.
She may know who her ancestors are and be ashamed of their misdeeds, but no-one can really claim that their ancestors were any better.

so let's stop and go forward with better knowledge.

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, pepperbird said:

expect the USA, Canada etc. is going to see an influx of refugees feeling the crackdown in Hong Kong

It seems the English have invited them there. 

[pepperbird]

2 minutes ago, Ellener said:

It seems the English have invited them there. 

If it's anything like mainland China, I hope they are able to get out.

[Emilie Jolie]

3 minutes ago, Ellener said:

so let's stop and go forward with better knowledge.

Yep. And we do have 'better knowledge'. We can't pretend that we don't.

IMO, There's only one way to combat racism (and all the other isms) - that is being in a constant stage of 'quiet revolution' and questioning, ie challenging the status quo, making sure power changes hands as often as possible.

'Every established order tends to produce the naturalization of its own arbitrariness.'

Pierre Bourdieu

Gradually, we are breaking the  barriers formed by the first established power, that is straight rich white male dominance, against much resistance from that particular group and their facilitators (codependents I guess, in LS vernacular). 

Systemic racism is one of the last barriers that needs to be tackled head on, along with endemic poverty; seems like we are finally heading that way.

 

[Ellener]

4 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

There's only one way to combat racism (and all the other isms) -

When I developed anxiety disorder my friends said- so tell everyone what it's like. I have. Once the personal experience of 'isms' is all unashamedly out there the world shifts.