do you just eventually give up?

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Quite correct so what other alternative do you propose? The limitations of OLD are exactly as you say but then how would I adapt to not doing OLD?

You should be doing OLD as you’ve mentioned you don’t really have much contact with a lot of women in your day to day life. OLD is a great option, but you have to actually commit to it, and understand you need to date (not just have contact with) a lot of women to find a match. You need numbers. When I met my wife I was generally going out on 3 dates / week. I was on 7 apps / sites. It takes work and effort to get the numbers in. I also had a good attitude and a “bad” date didn’t bother me. I kept first dates short so as to not burn out. I didn’t get too high or too low. Saved my emotional energy for when something became serious, which definitely was not on a first date. 

[basil67]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Quite correct so what other alternative do you propose? The limitations of OLD are exactly as you say but then how would I adapt to not doing OLD?

And we're back to my previous suggestion of meeting people socially.   How about focusing on making friends.  Learn new things outside of your current interests is a great way to start.   Writing class apparently didn't work for you.  So how about a photography class when COVID is over?  

[basil67]

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Rules seem to matter to some and not to others, should try to kiss on first dates according to some, not according to others.

There are NO rules when dating.  When it comes to first date kisses, it depended on how I felt about him.  If I really liked him, a kiss would be welcome.  If the date was a dud, even hand holding would be unwelcome.   It's about reading the chemistry.

[basil67]

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

a great looking guy will get cut some slack if he perhaps is not as social because he has one stand out feature.

Yes, good looks, male or female, will improve one's chances of getting a date.  Your own choices reflect this truth.

But remember that good looks will get you in the door, but if the good looking guy is socially inept or has some other deal breaker, he'll be dumped and back to square one. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

Yes, good looks, male or female, will improve one's chances of getting a date.  Your own choices reflect this truth.

But remember that good looks will get you in the door, but if the good looking guy is socially inept or has some other deal breaker, he'll be dumped and back to square one. 

Yep! Plus, basic good/good enough looks doesn't mean male model-gorgeous. Simply looking around at real life couples easily confirms this.

Pleasant looks, maybe a standout feature (nice eyes? Nice smile? Cute ass?), takes care of self, clean, current haircut (that last one may just be me)...good enough! If we match personality-wise.

Mamoa face not requred. My God, if it were NOBODY would hook up. 😅

Seriously...Just look around...at both men and women who are "coupled"...it's obviously true.

[ZA Dater]

12 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Looks are a massive thing with OLD.  From both males and females, but especially from females, since they generally have the Lion's share of choice.

What confuses me about you is that you see things in black and white.  There's nothing wrong with wanting a slim girl, but according to you, if she's anything but slim, then she is hugely overweight.

You have as much control with your OLD experience as any woman does.  If your field is to narrow with regards to swiping right, broaden it a little. 

You don't have to swipe right on large women you find unattractive, but at the same time, if all you want is the stunners... well, you'll probably always fall short (as almost every other guy would).

I do feel as though you need to take a break from OLD for a bit.  It doesn't seem like it's healthy or enjoyable for you right now.  Give it away for a few months, work on yourself and then perhaps give it a try when the world is a little more normal again.

I think a lot of my problem is also perspective. The good dates I have had have been good and I enjoyed them so I am always looking for dates like that which I guess is fine but I sometimes cannot escape the feeling that basically one has that one date to all the selling in order to get date 2, which is difficult.

In terms of looks its not all about slim but this is mostly because the people who seem to "want" me are ALWAYS overweight, so after a while I just started wondering what the heck I am doing wrong if that's all I can attract.

An interesting point here, my cute squirrel picture on Tinder got me marginally better matches than my own pictures did! Not really what I want but at least some respite from continually bad matches.

OLD has never been enjoyable for me because its like climbing in the ring and having no idea how to box, I get smacked to the ground and the only way I can make it tolerable to is to keep reminding myself I am a good person because if I took rejection to heart well I probably wouldn't be typing this.

I wouldn't know what to work on, I am lot more confident now than I was 3 years ago but I am still not going to go an engage in random conversation. I am more at ease with general life than I was then, more resigned to actually never finding anyone, that's unfortunately a realistic possibility.

For me a lot of what irks me about this whole process is it would seem its never a case of mutual attraction. That's all I am really looking for, go on a few dates with me, don't like me that's ok at least I would have felt that, which I guess doesn't make a lot of sense.

[5x5]

In the absence of having much desire to want to have sex @ZA Dater, why do you bother trying to date anyone at all?

Edited May 13, 2020 by 5x5

[chillii]

2 hours ago, 5x5 said:

In the absence of having much desire to want to have sex @ZA Dater, why do you bother trying to date anyone at all?

 

So is that the only point you see in wanting a relationship ?

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I think a lot of my problem is also perspective.

OLD has never been enjoyable for me because its like climbing in the ring and having no idea how to box, I get smacked to the ground and the only way I can make it tolerable to is to keep reminding myself I am a good person because if I took rejection to heart well I probably wouldn't be typing this.

I wouldn't know what to work on, I am lot more confident now than I was 3 years ago but I am still not going to go an engage in random conversation. I am more at ease with general life than I was then, more resigned to actually never finding anyone, that's unfortunately a realistic possibility.

For me a lot of what irks me about this whole process is it would seem its never a case of mutual attraction. That's all I am really looking for, go on a few dates with me, don't like me that's ok at least I would have felt that, which I guess doesn't make a lot of sense.

Yes! A lot of your problem is perspective! Or more accurately, lack of perspective. You’ve never been in a relationship, which is the ultimate goal of the dating process. You’ve never been on a second date as far as I know. So in your mind the online process and first dates are big deals, when in reality they’re rather meaningless.
 

Even the thought or feeling that you’re being “smacked down” when someone you’re attracted to doesn’t reciprocate those feelings is incredibly disproportionate. But I do understand it - when I started online dating the first dates seemed like a big deal to me too.

 

The best way I found to not invest as much emotionally in the early stages of dating was to date a lot. And multi date in the early stages. Like I said, normal for OLD is for things to not work. Once you accept that you should realize that you’re not being smacked down. You’re just experiencing normal OLD.

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

In terms of looks its not all about slim but this is mostly because the people who seem to "want" me are ALWAYS overweight, so after a while I just started wondering what the heck I am doing wrong if that's all I can attract.

OK I want to explain this phenomenon a bit. There’s actually been some research on this and it boils down to two main points. 
 

1. We tend to be most attracted to people initially that are more attractive / popular than we are. About 25% more attractive to be precise.

 

2. We’re not at all interested in people that are less attractive/ popular than we are.

 

This phenomenon is even more pronounced in OLD than IRL. Google the term “aspirational dating” and you’ll find the research I’m talking about.

 

So this leads to the inevitable:

”The people I’m attracted to aren’t interested in me, and the people that are interested in me, I’m not attracted to.”

 

So how do you overcome this? Date a lot of people that range from people you’re neutral about right up to ones you’re initially attracted to. You’re most likely to connect with someone that you’re equal to in attractiveness which will initially present  as rather neutral at first.

 

And stop swiping right on overweight women if you don’t want to date them! Problem solved!

[5x5]

26 minutes ago, chillii said:

So is that the only point you see in wanting a relationship ?

Call me old fashioned, yet I do think that dating means looking for someone to have a sexual relationship with.

If ZA Dater isn't really interested in wanting to have a sexual relationship with anyone. He would do better by just looking for platonic friends of any sex instead, rather than wasting anyone's time (including his own) trying to date them to no end.

Edited May 13, 2020 by 5x5

[elaine567]

ZA Dater, you say you like a challenge but I guess you don't, not really.
You do not want to be found wanting, so you don't try.
Challenges are too much for you.
You need certainty in order to enter the game, and because that is usually elusive, you give up.
You refuse to "grovel and beg "  or "sell yourself" so you allow these girls to walk out of your life and then come and moan about it on here.

Few women with options are going to run after you, women just don't do that. They wait for a man to do the chasing.
For a woman to run after you then you need to have some superior quality that makes you irresistible to her.
As you are not fending off women daily then I guess they are not finding you irresistible
Confident women with few or no options will do the running as they are often very used to being ignored by men and are taking the chance that some man will be flattered by the attention and they can then use their personality and charm to keep him interested.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

ZA Dater, you say you like a challenge but I guess you don't, not really.
You do not want to be found wanting, so you don't try.
Challenges are too much for you.
You need certainty in order to enter the game, and because that is usually elusive, you give up.
You refuse to "grovel and beg "  or "sell yourself" so you allow these girls to walk out of your life and then come and moan about it on here.

Few women with options are going to run after you, women just don't do that. They wait for a man to do the chasing.
For a woman to run after you then you need to have some superior quality that makes you irresistible to her.
As you are not fending off women daily then I guess they are not finding you irresistible
Confident women with few or no options will do the running as they are often very used to being ignored by men and are taking the chance that some man will be flattered by the attention and they can then use their personality and charm to keep him interested.

I have been around this game long enough to know I have put the effort in and have in all honesty would and should rather put that effort into other aspects of life instead based on the ROI I get from dating. However, two or three nice experiences sort of motivate me to keep trying to replicate those nice experiences.

Sure, they want men to chase so they can reject, takes me back the q adage, men stand in a line and women walk past and choose the one they want. For reason 5x5 eludes to most men would only be too happy to be chosen by anyone rather than nobody.

I look at odd of success, odds with the swimwear model...zero, odd with the political lady who doesn't like to party, like books and lunches, well in theory 70% but then again I was proven wrong here. Its not as if I am going after people I would have no chance with, I do weigh up the odds.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, 5x5 said:

In the absence of having much desire to want to have sex @ZA Dater, why do you bother trying to date anyone at all?

Seeing as this question always seem to crop up and I always seem to ignore it, I'll answer it. Sure I want to have sex with them, just not with people I don't find attractive. But I suspect someone will be along shortly to tell me I must give miss not so attractive out of shape a chance. But again most of me thinks that its really not ok to be 36 and have no experience so when miss I had too much wine was all over me it was morally easy to send her home in an Uber rather than take her home. 

Other guys wouldn't have but other guys have experience and I just didn't feel ok with the whole scenario.

I do my best to hide it but shyness is never too far away with me when it comes to dating, ask me to do a presentation to a board or sit and do a M&A deal and I am quite at ease, but put me in front of someone I find attractive and that at ease vanishes quickly, sometimes it doesn't but most of the time it does.

Unfortunately I suspect if I ever did find mutual attraction it would all fall apart due to inexperience.

 

 

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, 5x5 said:

Call me old fashioned, yet I do think that dating means looking for someone to have a sexual relationship with.

If ZA Dater isn't really interested in wanting to have a sexual relationship with anyone. He would do better by just looking for platonic friends of any sex instead, rather than wasting anyone's time (including his own) trying to date them to no end.

That's the problem , there is no purposes attempting to date someone I don't find attractive to that end. I once had a terrible date, well terrible in the sense she really wanted me to come back to her place but honest I wasn't remotely attracted to her, I made some excuse why I couldn't and that was that. The idea of seeing that person with no clothes on was frankly a horrifying one.

[an0nym0us123]

Attractive women will have numerous men chasing, "orbitors" as some call them. They will bend over backwards to get her attention, they she will go after the guy she really wants. Chances are he wasnt doing very much.

This is what happened when i got with my ex. She left her bf and every single guy she knew was bombing her with texts and invites to go for drinks. There were at least 10 trying it on.

None of them got anywhere

[5x5]

20 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

That's the problem , there is no purposes attempting to date someone I don't find attractive to that end. I once had a terrible date, well terrible in the sense she really wanted me to come back to her place but honest I wasn't remotely attracted to her, I made some excuse why I couldn't and that was that. The idea of seeing that person with no clothes on was frankly a horrifying one.

Then why on earth did you date her in the first place if you knew what she looked like beforehand? Or if you didn't know what she looked like before your date, why did you carry on having a date with her after finding her so repulsive on first sight?

Dating anybody you don't potentially want to have sex with, doesn't make any sense to me.

[miranda561]

4 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

OK I want to explain this phenomenon a bit. There’s actually been some research on this and it boils down to two main points. 
 

1. We tend to be most attracted to people initially that are more attractive / popular than we are. About 25% more attractive to be precise.

 

2. We’re not at all interested in people that are less attractive/ popular than we are.

 

This phenomenon is even more pronounced in OLD than IRL. Google the term “aspirational dating” and you’ll find the research I’m talking about.

 

So this leads to the inevitable:

”The people I’m attracted to aren’t interested in me, and the people that are interested in me, I’m not attracted to.”

 

So how do you overcome this? Date a lot of people that range from people you’re neutral about right up to ones you’re initially attracted to. You’re most likely to connect with someone that you’re equal to in attractiveness which will initially present  as rather neutral at first.

 

And stop swiping right on overweight women if you don’t want to date them! Problem solved!

Im just surprised he keeps coming  across overweight women. 

I do come across a few people on the overweight side but hundreds and hundreds  who are not. So it baffles me

[miranda561]

2 hours ago, an0nym0us123 said:

Attractive women will have numerous men chasing, "orbitors" as some call them. They will bend over backwards to get her attention, they she will go after the guy she really wants. Chances are he wasnt doing very much.

This is what happened when i got with my ex. She left her bf and every single guy she knew was bombing her with texts and invites to go for drinks. There were at least 10 trying it on.

None of them got anywhere

Unfortunately this is true 😂

But in terms of the guy whos maybe a little more my type than the rest. I certainly would not be chasing him

[miranda561]

1 hour ago, 5x5 said:

Then why on earth did you date her in the first place if you knew what she looked like beforehand? Or if you didn't know what she looked like before your date, why did you carry on having a date with her after finding her so repulsive on first sight?

Dating anybody you don't potentially want to have sex with, doesn't make any sense to me.

Maybe she was different in person. Looked different to what he expected 

[5x5]

2 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

Maybe she was different in person. Looked different to what he expected 

Which is why I asked the following.

1 hour ago, 5x5 said:

Or if you didn't know what she looked like before your date, why did you carry on having a date with her after finding her so repulsive on first sight?

 

[miranda561]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

ZA Dater, you say you like a challenge but I guess you don't, not really.
You do not want to be found wanting, so you don't try.
Challenges are too much for you.
You need certainty in order to enter the game, and because that is usually elusive, you give up.
You refuse to "grovel and beg "  or "sell yourself" so you allow these girls to walk out of your life and then come and moan about it on here.

Few women with options are going to run after you, women just don't do that. They wait for a man to do the chasing.
For a woman to run after you then you need to have some superior quality that makes you irresistible to her.
As you are not fending off women daily then I guess they are not finding you irresistible
Confident women with few or no options will do the running as they are often very used to being ignored by men and are taking the chance that some man will be flattered by the attention and they can then use their personality and charm to keep him interested.

This is spot on. I have the same mentality, i dont need to or am desperate enough to go after  a man who isnt giving me much. Since all i have to do to engage with another guy is go through my endless messages in my OLD inbox..or even my WhatsApp inbox. Not trying to sound arrogant but that's the reality 

Edited May 13, 2020 by miranda561

[miranda561]

4 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Which is why I asked the following.

 

Well unlike what you do on dates potentially. Maybe just maybe he didnt want to be rude?

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 

I look at odd of success, odds with the swimwear model...zero, odd with the political lady who doesn't like to party, like books and lunches, well in theory 70% but then again I was proven wrong here. Its not as if I am going after people I would have no chance with, I do weigh up the odds.

Stop trying to calculate the odds. I remember back when I was on OK Cupid, I had someone that was a 99% match and was attractive so I sent her a well thought out message a received the response - “sorry I don’t think it would work out”. And the reason she wasn’t interested really doesn’t matter. That’s the point. You’re not going to be a match with most strangers. The reasons aren’t important. That’s why you need to date a lot of people to find that match.

[5x5]

3 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

Well unlike what you do on dates potentially. Maybe just maybe he didnt want to be rude?

Through my whole life I have never dated any woman that wasn't both very pretty and sexually attractive as well.