Is motorcycling really dangerous?

[Springsummer]

In my province, we have this graduate licensing system. you get your first licences and withing 5 years, you take another road test, if you pass then you have a perm license. if you don't take it within 5 years. you first licence will expired. Mine is going to expire in 2 months. After I got my first license I never touch a bike again. now thinking I should get one and practice and get a perm licence.

I thinking it is fun, but I am kind of afraid because it seems motorcycling is scary. should I just let me license expire?

What's your attitude and approach to risk?

[major_merrick]

I think it depends on your skill.  If you've done it in the past and done it safely, you might as well practice and get your permanent license.  How much practice can you do in 2 months?  Is this an activity you would like to continue in the future?

I have no problem with dangerous activities that require skill.  I play with guns and I race cars.  I'd like to learn to fly someday.  But I've never touched a motorcycle...not because the activity is inherently dangerous, but I have poor balance so it would be dangerous for me.  You have to evaluate your own skills and limitations. 

[Blind-Sided]

I have been on 2 wheels since I was 8 years old.  Back then... it was dirt bikes (off road) in the Arizona desert.  I loved it.  I crashed... I got hurt... but it was so fun, I couldn't stop.  The morning I turned 16... I got my auto license, and the morning after that... I got my motorcycle license. (I couldn't take both tests the same day)  I am currently 47 years old... so I'm getting close to 40 years on motorcycles.  In my younger years I raced off-road (Desert, and MX) and in my older years, I ran a bunch of "Club" races on-road. Track days are an Absolut blast !!!!!! 

OK... to your question... Is it dangerous?   No, not really. But it depends on you... and the kind of driver/rider you are.  If you are oblivious to your surroundings or don't pay attention to others... you will have an accident. (just like being in a car)  If you are stupid, and ride above your ability... you will have an accident.  If you buy a big bike, and don't respect the power... YOU WILL DIE !!!!!

Over the years, I've see that all a few times.  I'm going to give you 2 stories...

1) There was a group of us (Club) who would get together, and have a "Spirited" ride in the mountains about 60 miles away from where we would meet.  This turned into a 300 mile day, that was VERY aggressive,  and took a toll on you physically and mentally.  This group was very aware that we didn't all ride at the same level, and we welcomed anyone who wanted to join us. While out... we would generally break into 3 or 4 groups based on ability, and we drummed into everyone... "Ride your own ride." (meaning don't ride above your ability)  On one of these trips, a kid joined us on a little Ninja 250 (Kawasaki) He ran his mouth on how good he was, and how fast he could ride.  (When someone is like that, you know something bad will happen)  We  got about 100 miles into our ride, and he ran a corner wide, and went into a guardrail. He was trying to stay with group #2, but neither he or his bike were capable of the speeds being held in that group. We all regrouped, and made sure he was safe, and called him a tow truck.  We were lucky here didn't need an ambulance. 

2) This one is bad.  There was a local motorcycle shop that I'm at all the time, and all the workers know me.  So, they got a new sales man, and they asked me to mess with him a little to see how much he actually knew.  After a few minutes, we let him off the hook, and he seemed ok... but he was very "Gung-Ho" on his attitude. After a while, we were talking about the kind of bike he had, and he had just bought a GSXR1000. He was saying how good of a rider he was, and "How Fast" he could ride. At that point, I had a bad feeling, because guys who are actually good riders, don't need to brag. Anyway... I told him he should get a track suit, and come out with me to the local track so I could show him how SLOW he actually was.  He declined, and said he was just fast on the street. (Stupid) Well... a couple weeks later, I was in the shop, and got the news he was dead.  He was on a back road going close to 90 mph, and came around a corner but didn't have time to react to a stopped school bus. He hit the car behind the bus, and that threw him from the bike... and his body slammed the rear of the bus.  (He basically liquefied on impact)

As you can see... when you don't respect want you are riding... it can be bad.  But if you are true to yourself, and ride the way you know you can ride... and you respect the road conditions... you can have a lot of fun.

As a final point... there are a lot of people who say... "You have to worry about the other guy".  Meaning, the car that hits you.  But in that case... you could die driving a car. 

Like I said... I'm approaching 40 years on 2 wheels.  I love it... and I will never stop.   FYI... on of the bikes I own right now is a Suzuki BKing.  One of the biggest, badest.... STUPIEDEST bikes ever built. I love it, and the power it has.  But in the wrong hands... it will kill a rider with poor judgment.

Get your perm license, and enjoy the freedom being on 2 wheels gives.

[Fletch Lives]

I think in traffic, motorcycles are dangerous. At least in car/truck, you are in a tin can, you have a cage of sorts for more protection. I've seen a lot of people with life long chronic injuries from riding motorcycles.

But out in the country and on dirt roads with little or no traffic? - no problemo! Lots of fun.

Dirt bike racing is another animal - be prepared for broken bones.

[Blind-Sided]

2 hours ago, Fletch Lives said:

.... Dirt bike racing is another animal - be prepared for broken bones.

And ripped up ligaments. LOL.  My left knee and right shoulder still hurt from crashes +25 years ago.   

On that note... my mom came to watch me one time at a big MX event.  Someone crashed off a large double jump directly in front of her.  His femur bone was sticking out of his pants, and there was blood everywhere. (This stopped the race for a while)  After I got home... my mom said "I know it's dangerous, and I won't stop you from doing it... but don't ask me to watch anymore."

[Happy Lemming]

23 hours ago, Springsummer said:

I thinking it is fun, but I am kind of afraid because it seems motorcycling is scary. should I just let me license expire?

What's your attitude and approach to risk?

I've been riding motorcycles pretty much my entire adult life. I've learned the trick is to always leave yourself an "out" (a place to go if a vehicle cuts you off.  When on the highway, maneuver in a way so that you are never sandwiched between two cars/trucks.  When passing a large truck, pass quickly... don't play around in their blind spots.  Don't lane jump a lot to make time.  In my state, I'm allowed in the HOV lane with a motorcycle (alone), so I get there and stay there, until its time to exit. 

Don't be aggressive... if someone cuts you off, let them go (back off or exit) Remember they are in a 4,000 pound car, you are on a 400 pound bike, they have the "mass" advantage.

I'm a firm believer in good protective gear, padded motorcycle jacket, good strong boots and a full face helmet.  A rock flew off a truck and landed square in the middle of my helmet's visor.  It protected my face/nose/eyes, etc.  I did have to replace the $25 visor, but not my face. 

I've only been hit once on a motorcycle by another driver, it was a rainy dark night. She clipped my rear tire when she was changing lanes, my padded jacket and helmet protected my body, not a scratch on me... just the bike.  After that I made my own rule of no riding in the rain (at night).

I think the risk is mitigated/reduced by proper motorcycle training and good "conservative" riding skills, but only you can decide if the fear is too great to ride.

And "yes" it is A LOT of FUN!!

[Happy Lemming]

3 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

After a while, we were talking about the kind of bike he had, and he had just bought a GSXR1000. He was saying how good of a rider he was, and "How Fast" he could ride. At that point, I had a bad feeling, because guys who are actually good riders, don't need to brag.

100% Agree... About 10 years ago when it was time for me to get a new bike.  I contemplated a liter bike, I was eyeing an R1.  At that time, I was 45 and I knew I would be keeping that new motorcycle for quite a while (well into my 50's) and started thinking about my reaction time, advancing age, etc.  A liter bike might get away from me, so I settled on an R6.  600cc's is plenty for me and I'm glad I didn't go bigger.

 

[salparadise]

1 hour ago, Happy Lemming said:

I think the risk is mitigated/reduced by proper motorcycle training and good "conservative" riding skills, but only you can decide if the fear is too great to ride.

Motorcycles are dangerous, and anyone who says differently isn't dealing in reality. However, as Happy L says, you can mitigate risk with training, experience, skill, full gear, and a very conservative approach. I will also say that I think some people are suited to it and some just aren't. If you're the latter, have the good judgement to stay away from them! 

I have in the range of 300,000+ miles of experience. I've had a few minor get-offs but no injuries. I've been lucky as well as careful. I know several people who have died.

The vast majority of motorcycle accidents have one or more of these factors: little or no training, little experience overall or little experience on that specific bike, no protective gear (esp. helmet), speeding, and alcohol. If you control these factors you mitigate risk significantly. If you lack experience, realize that you're at higher risk and compensate by taking training, staying out of traffic, and slowing down.

Most accidents fall into just a few categories:  1. Running wide in turns. You have to learn countersteering, and replace the impulse to chop throttle and grab brakes when you're too hot in a corner. Push the inside bar and add throttle to tighten the line. 2. Breaking too late or too lightly in response to a hazard. You can't get that valuable distance back, so break soon and hard, and then ease off once you're sure you have space. 3. Not maintaining enough space between you and other vehicles. Space equals time, and given enough time any collision can be avoided. 4. Cars turning left in front of you (or right in UK). This is hard to defend against. It's probably the most frequent accident that is not the riders fault. The defense is to cover the brake and assume that the car WILL turn. Slow down to adjust the timing such that if they do you won't collide. *Always adjust timing to prevent the POSSIBILITY of a collision. 

Who should and should not ride... people have different types of nervous systems. Some people naturally have excellent time-space coordination, the ability to react quickly and accurately, a propensity toward hyper-vigilance and situational awareness, the ability to process fast changing spacial information and prioritize correctly, not prone to panic. If this describes you, you might make a good rider. If not, stay off. Good riders have both confidence and the humility to know they too can screw the pooch.  

Edited April 13, 2020 by salparadise

[Springsummer]

20 hours ago, major_merrick said:

I think it depends on your skill.  If you've done it in the past and done it safely, you might as well practice and get your permanent license.  How much practice can you do in 2 months?  Is this an activity you would like to continue in the future?

I have no problem with dangerous activities that require skill.  I play with guns and I race cars.  I'd like to learn to fly someday.  But I've never touched a motorcycle...not because the activity is inherently dangerous, but I have poor balance so it would be dangerous for me.  You have to evaluate your own skills and limitations. 

Never rode a bike prior taking the motorcycle training course, then I passed the course at first try and got a licence. I would definitely continue in the future if danger is not a factor. 

I think I have pretty good balance. I grew up climbing trees, tall tropical trees. I also snowboard and ski in the winter. I can bicycle without using my hands for a while. Balance is not a factor for me. 

but there are other risks. so, I am still pondering...

or was it my second try? got sent home almost as soon as the course started for no good reason. probably the instructor look at me tiny and thought I have no business there. I complained to the school and was put on the next course. so I only paid once. In that course, another instructor told me he rarely see anyone can balance on a standstill bike.

Talk about prejudice and profiling....

If I want to get a perm licence, I will pay another 500 to take the second training and get the licence. Here you can go to the test center and pay $80 to get a test. or take a training course and pass the course and then get the licence.

Can you believe in eastern Canada we have to take 2 road tests for a driver's licence? both car and bike.

[thefooloftheyear]

I used to be a bike enthusiast, and had owned some hot/modified sport bikes...Miraculously survived a horrific wreck...And I had years of experience not only riding, but racing...It;s not always about experience or lack thereof...In my wreck,  a diesel truck leaked some fuel on the curved part of the road and the minute I hit that patch I was done...I was rushed to the ER with nothing more than a bunch of scratches and road rash...When I went to pick the bike up from the impound, it didn't even look like a motorcycle...A crumpled up heap of parts..

Sport bikes are hideously fast(especially now,) and it's easy to get careless..I'd like to say if you get a touring bike you will be better off, but you are still at the mercy of inattentive drivers,, road hazards, deer and other animals,. etc....At least with a touring bike you have less of an urge to push the limits...

I'll also agree with Sal in that cars that turn left when you have the right of way is a BIG problem...Its how I lost a good friend...

The only way I would ride again is if I lived in a rural/secluded area....Its too risky around here, no matter how competent you are...

Measure twice and cut once, as they say...

TFY

Edited April 13, 2020 by thefooloftheyear

[preraph]

I got my first bike when I was 12, one of the first trail bikes ever made. I later rode Kawasaki 650s and 1000s doing motorcycle escort. 

 

riding motorcycles around other vehicles is one of the most dangerous things you can do. Everyone I rode escort with in a big city wrecked except me. And I laid one down once from hard braking. 

 

Even riding dirt bikes on popular trails is dangerous. I was lucky because there weren't any established trails when I was young so I was pretty safe out doing it on my own and not having to worry about other drivers. 

 

My cousin was a Marine and a few years after he got home, living in a small town, he got hit buy a careless driver on his motorcycle and lost his leg up to his thigh. Being super careful driver yourself is only going to help about 10%. because nearly all wrecks are the other driver's fault who are in other bigger vehicles and you just don't have much of a chance in a wreck. 

 

Motorcycle accidents are usually very debilitating and crippling if not fatal. 

if I were you unless I lived in a place I could completely stay off of any busy streets or just driving the country, I would not use one for transportation. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by preraph

[Happy Lemming]

On 4/12/2020 at 9:05 AM, Springsummer said:

if you don't take it within 5 years. you first licence will expired. Mine is going to expire in 2 months. After I got my first license I never touch a bike again. now thinking I should get one and practice and get a perm licence.

 

Can I ask why you haven't ridden in almost 5 years, (since getting your primary/first license)??

If you haven't touched a motorcycle in 5 years, maybe it your heart isn't in it and you should let the "primary/first" license expire.

[Springsummer]

24 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

Can I ask why you haven't ridden in almost 5 years, (since getting your primary/first license)??

If you haven't touched a motorcycle in 5 years, maybe it your heart isn't in it and you should let the "primary/first" license expire.

I don't know anybody else who rides. except my father, but that was decades ago, before he came to N.A. He instructed fellow students in university. He has been busy with life to have fun after he came here.

Most bike are too big and too tall for me. I feel intimating to walk into a shop myself as a tiny woman alone to shop for a bike. If I brought a bike home, my parents will scare the hell out of them too. I figure probably the only bike that's good for my height of 5'2 and 120 lb is Honda Rebel.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Springsummer

[Springsummer]

25 minutes ago, preraph said:

Motorcycle accidents are usually very debilitating and crippling if not fatal. 

if I were you unless I lived in a place I could completely stay off of any busy streets or just driving the country, I would not use one for transportation. 

Now you are making me really thinking hard again.

half hour away from the city is country/small town though and my father has a hobby farm. um...

even skiing could be fatal too. on our second days in Steamboat, Colorado this Feb., a skier did not survive.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Springsummer

[salparadise]

12 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

If you haven't touched a motorcycle in 5 years, maybe it your heart isn't in it...

Motorcycling is best left to people who are absolutely compelled in spite of the risks and expense. There is no rational, practical reasoning for taking up motorcycling. If you're sitting on the fence with half-hearted motivation or financial constraints, and looking for a way to make a rational decision... then don't. If you're afraid of getting hurt... then don't. If you're thinking, hey, this might be fun... there are lots of ways to have fun, so choose one that's safe and cheap. I'm not getting the feeling that you're compelled, Springsummer. 

[alphamale]

had a friend of a friend who was in a horrific motorcycle accident way back when.  his body was so badly mangled that they had to have a closed casket at the funeral.  Poor guy left a wife and two little girls behind.

i've never ridden a motorcycle and never will

[preraph]

1 hour ago, Springsummer said:

I don't know anybody else who rides. except my father, but that was decades ago, before he came to N.A. He instructed fellow students in university. He has been busy with life to have fun after he came here.

Most bike are too big and too tall for me. I feel intimating to walk into a shop myself as a tiny woman alone to shop for a bike. If I brought a bike home, my parents will scare the hell out of them too. I figure probably the only bike that's good for my height of 5'2 and 120 lb is Honda Rebel.

One thing to be sure is comfortable are the handlebars. Women's arms are built different. I wasn't comfortable driving the handlebars that curved inward because it was a very awkward angle for me. I like straight ones. I also liked a long lean bike as opposed to a short fat one. 

[preraph]

1 hour ago, Springsummer said:

Now you are making me really thinking hard again.

half hour away from the city is country/small town though and my father has a hobby farm. um...

even skiing could be fatal too. on our second days in Steamboat, Colorado this Feb., a skier did not survive.

If you just want to drive around on the farm, and you're real careful then it's pretty safe. I will tell you that the one real wreck I ever had where I broke a wrist, I was in the country and my front wheel sank down in some sand too far and that whipped The handlebar and twisted it back into my wrist and broke it. So bikes are just pretty dangerous. I would not be using them to drive into town. And you have to be careful even out in the country because where there's not much traffic at all, teenagers and young people tend to drive in the middle of the road and drive real fast. 

 

If you ever are riding a motorcycle, you need to seriously drive as if you are assuming you are invisible because you usually are. And you have to remember that about one and a hundred people have some sociopath in them and just don't care. When I was riding that escort job, I was on police bikes and wearing a uniform and had the flashing lights and all that, and it was very common for all the escort riders to be sitting out in the middle of an intersection and have someone just make a run at them. There are some bad people in the world and even more careless ones.

Motorcycles are vulnerable to freak accidents, from dogs chasing them or something running out in front it's a much bigger deal to hit one on a motorcycle. While I was working one day with a partner, a hub cap came off the limousine and went in right between his engine and his wheel and he flew about 30 ft. Things that wouldn't affect you in a car will kill you on a motorcycle.

If you can afford a car you're better off. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by preraph

[Ellener]

On 4/12/2020 at 11:05 AM, Springsummer said:

What's your attitude and approach to risk?

A lot more flexible since the pandemic and my last three living situations!

Probably would not motorcycle here though, it's often 90+ degrees and with leathers and a helmet...probably why you see so many people riding around dangerously without them.

[Springsummer]

53 minutes ago, preraph said:

If you can afford a car you're better off. 

I have a car. I just think motorcycling is really fun. Probably like skiing and snowboard, makes you feel free and alive. I like speed and motion.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Springsummer

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, Springsummer said:

makes you feel free and alive

I'll feel like that if I get through the pandemic surviving coronavirus and my alcoholic house-share 🤣

[preraph]

Oh, riding is a lot of fun.  But if you just want to do it for fun, load it up and take it out in the country and ride where there's no one around.  

[Ellener]

2 hours ago, preraph said:

Oh, riding is a lot of fun.  But if you just want to do it for fun, load it up and take it out in the country and ride where there's no one around.  

Like my walking! 

[preraph]

When you're out camping or whatever, I used to like to follow the birds near dusk and go to their roost.  Saw a whole tree of turkey buzzards that way!

[major_merrick]

5 hours ago, Springsummer said:

Can you believe in eastern Canada we have to take 2 road tests for a driver's licence? both car and bike.

Here, we have road tests for each kind of vehicle.  Car, motorcycle, and various commercial vehicles.  Seems fairly standard, and I've never heard of it being otherwise.  If I were you, I'd keep the license, if only to give the finger to "the man."