Should I have told my son to defend himself?

[Alex90]

I'll summarise as best I can. My son of 4 years old has plenty of friends at school and seems to really enjoy himself. He is the only one that wears glasses as far I know. Twice the past few weeks he has had his glasses broken through no fault of his own.

First time a friend took the glasses off him and stamped on them, a teacher saw it. The parent apologised profusely and offered to pay for the glasses. My son and the other kid are friends so we didn't worry too much about it telling our son that nobody is allowed to take his glasses and that they are not toys. The two of them are best friends still and play with eachother all the time after the incident.

The other day a different kid (who the teachers tell me has behavioural problems) pushed my son to the ground for no reason breaking his glasses and leaving a deep nasty cut just an inch or two from his eye. A teacher witnessed it and said it was totally unprovoked. The child in question has been annoying my son and other kids for some time now and the teachers are aware of the situation. Nothing seems to have been done though. After the incident the other day they said if wont happen again and I agreed, stating it most definitely won't. I told my son that if anyone is trying to hurt him to push them away and tell them to leave him alone then go tell a teacher.

Today my son pushed a different kid for no reason so I'm told. I have yet to get speaking to him about it, his mother told me over the phone. When I do I will asking him what happened and why he pushed the other kid. If it turns out to be true that it was unprovoked (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) I will be making it very clear to him that what he did was wrong and that what I told him the other day doesn't mean he can go around pushing anybody he wants.

His mother and I disagree about him defending himself. I feel he is entitled to do so but she says he should never push back and just tell a teacher. My problem is the teachers were made aware for quite a while about an issue and my son never stood up for himself which resulted in the bad cut beside his eye.

I don't want my son to grow up being a victim and thinking he isn't ever allowed to defend himself. I've been a young boy myself and have seen people getting bullied for years after not standing up for themselves. I also dont want him to think it's ok to just push someone unless it was absolutely necessary I.e. defending himself

I want to make clear I don't condone him pushing the other kid today whatsoever and believe me he will be punished for it. I am mindful of sending the wrong message though. I am aware that it could be very confusing for my 4 year old son hearing conflicting instructions. All I want is the best for him!

Was I right or wrong to tell him it's ok to push back?

[Tamfana]

I think you're right.  

[carhill]

Times have changed; we never involved parents. I had that problem too being a four eyed fat faggot (common slur from childhood) and glasses were an easy target. Irish kid taught me the trach shot and how to sweep legs and pretty much the problems stopped after that. Four is a bit young though, pre-school stuff, I'd do the parent  to parent thing and also teach the kid some elementary self-defense moves and to avoid starting fights but be confident in prosecuting them if started by another. Kids have a social pecking order and there's no reason for your son to be a doormat. Turning the other cheek seems god-like but doesn't really work well with human children still developing their brain.

[basil67]

Times have changed since we were young.   If two kids start fighting, both are now likely to end up in trouble.   My advice is that he should walk away if he can and save fists for when he's got no other choice but to start defending himself.   

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by basil67
potentially identifying

[Alex90]

Thanks for the replies guys. I may be other thinking the whole thing a bit, it has been annoying me for hours now. The conversation with my sons mother will be interesting tomorrow! She is blaming me for what happened today but I'm not too worried about that. My only concern is my son's physical and mental wellbeing.

[preraph]

I've literally never heard of a school fairly resolving a bullying issue.  I don't trust them to do it.  Usually they penalized the victim too and there's always an aggressor.  They're too scared of the parents and lawsuits.  It's disgusting.  I would just say that the school has no say what goes on off school grounds and leave it at that.  But at four, I think that may be too early to encourage him to push or so anything but go screaming to the teacher or you parents.  However, past a certain age, you know, you have to learn to back people off.  It doesn't always have to be with fists.  

[Gaeta]

I agree, do not trust the school to solve a bullying problem. I think you are doing a good thing in teaching your son to defend himself. One detail, I would tell him though to never be the first one to through the punch. If he hits or pushes first then he's the attacker. Words should be fought with words, if a kid hits him then yes he can defend himself physically. 

It's a jungle out there, kids are soooo cruel ! and wait till they're at the age of social media. I have a 15 year old that gets teased in a mean way at school because she is thin with no breasts. At the moment a kid is different and ooze a littlel bit of vulnerability the others gang up on them like vultures. My adult daughter was a teen with a different look. she didn't fit the crowd, what saved her was she was extra confident in who she was and had no problem defending herself, no one ever bullied her even if she was different. 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Gaeta

[preraph]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

I have a 15 year old that gets teased in a mean way at school because she is thin with no breasts. At the moment a kid is different and ooze a littlel bit of vulnerability the others gang up on them like vultures. My adult daughter was a teen with a different look. she didn't fit the crowd, what saved her was she was extra confident in who she was and had no problem defending herself, no one ever bullied her even if she was different. 

I can relate.  When I was just about 13, my first year of middle school, I was still very immature and naive and I was a tomboy.  Fortunately, my mom made dresses and we were required to wear dresses to school, so at least I didn't look too tomboyish.  But I was still undeveloped up top and my mom was the kind who didn't really get out and didn't know you should go ahead and put a little bra on your girl in middle school.  So I didn't have one (and didn't need one either), but I guess I was the only one who didn't have one.  I was also the last to shave my legs because my mom wasn't paying attention or thought it was a thing.  So I was getting teased.  I still looked like a little kid, to be fair.  The boys started teasing me but I was so young and dumb I had no idea what it was about.  I didn't know for a long time, like years.  So the boys started calling me "George Seemore."  Well, I had an aunt last name Seymour, so didn't think anything about it.  I did wonder about the George part but I thought it was a commentar on the little suede driving cap I had worn to school a time or two.  Anyway, I was just glad to be having boys talk to me and so I just reacted positively, smiling and being nice back to them, and this eventually made them stop because they realized what a naive yut I was and took pity on me.  

 

Then the real bullying started with the girls doing it the next year.  I hated it and it lasted through school.  I was a girl who had a trail bike since age 12 and rode horses and had a lot of independence, and I just basically used attitude to get through it.  

[carhill]

Pack mentality is natural. People form groups for safety, power and dominance. Children, with partially formed brains and psyches and still learning social morality and boundaries, are simply more blatant. Adults do the same thing, they're just more skilled and creative. At our core, we're animals. The weak and undesirable are cast out and eaten or left to die. Kids, some anyway, get a cruel lesson in pack mentality at a young age if they happen to be sufficiently different to be undesirable to the group. Family is a great balance as those kids learn to cope. The tapes (emotional memories) will likely remain but they learn skills to deal with both the tapes and dealing with such humans throughout life. IME, faith and a healthy moral code help.

[Alex90]

Cheers again for the replies guys/ladies! This whole parenting thing is an education in it's own at times lol.

I spoke to my son about it all today, explained that it wasn't a very nice thing to push someone in school and reminded him how he didn't like it when it happened to him the other day. I basically told him that if he felt like someone was annoying him or trying to hurt him in anyway to tell the teacher, then tell Mummy & Daddy when he gets home. I told him not to be pushing anyone in school as it's not a nice thing to do and I think he has grasped it.

I had to laugh though, later when we were having lunch he turned to me and said, "Daddy, remember if someone pushes you then you have to push them back!" That's the gist of what I was trying to say all along. I really hope there are no more incidents for a while!

I'm just trying to be proactive in raising my son the right way I.e. happy, healthy, well mannered and behaved. As mentioned before I also don't want him to be picked on/bullied and am aiming to arm him with the right tools and information to prevent it happening.

Day 3 with no glasses still waiting g on them arriving 🤨

[Gaeta]

I remember in grade 5 this bigger guy kept harassing me by pushing me in the snow. One day my dad told me to give a good kick in one of his knee! So again this guy comes at me to push me, I aim at his knee and give it all I've got, I miss the knee and hit him right in his private parts, he felt to the ground and he never ever messed with me after that. What a precious memory! lol

[noelle303]

I have a similar problem with my 8 year old.

We moved to a different country in September and she is now at a new school. She's a really social kid who has no trouble making friends and is generally well-liked among other kids. However, there seems to be a boy who is constantly picking on her either due to some type of jealousy or frustration. 

Now, I would never teach my kid to push or hit anyone . she was always told that if someone's bullying her to ignore them or tell the teacher. And she's mostly done that so far with the boy being adequately punished. Nevertheless, the constant picking on her continued and he recently he twisted her arm so badly that it bruised! She ended up pinching him to let go of her arm and pushing him away and he fell down.

When they called both parents, I stood up for how she behaved. I don't care - I think she did the right thing. How else can you fend off someone who's literally attacking you?

I talked with her a lot about it and I firmly believe that she understands that hitting anyone is wrong, but defending yourself can sometimes be the only viable option.

 

 

[Gaeta]

I know I won't be popular saying this but I think it's imperative we teach our children how to physically defend themselves when attacked, yes even in a school yard. It's magic to think we will build a world where there is  no violence. Our children needs to be ready to face the real world and in the real world you will have to defend yourself.

[nospam99]

I would be in the school district superintendent's office, dancing on his or her desk, with a police chief as witness. I would be making it clear that if the school fails at their responsibility to defend my kid, that they would have no say in what my kid does to defend themself in the face of that failure and would have a lawsuit if they punished my kid for fighting. If I did not get a satisfactory i.e. total capitulation from the superintendent, then escalate to the school board. Next step is get a lawyer. School districts ought to be taken to task for failing to distinguish between the bullies and the targets.

[thefooloftheyear]

The school isn't the last word on what you say or do with your kid...WE are....There have been several instances where what they advocate went against my parenting intuition and quite frankly I don't care....Once our kids are out of that particular school what they say or do doesn't matter...

My parents made several mistakes with us as kids and for those I am remorseful...One are where they didn't is in raising us to defend ourselves...My dad was a very tough guy that took no crap from anyone...Neither did mom for that matter...But they also taught us to not throw weight around needlessly and save it for the circumstances warrant it...

You are doing the right thing....By defending himself he is building a part of his character that will last a lifetime...Bullies don't just go away once we get older....They exist everywhere.. Getting thrown to the ground or even getting your nose bloodied, is a very small price to pay vs the emotional scarring and trauma that results from allowing it to go unchecked...And in almost every case, the kids that stand up for themselves only get to feel that gut punch once...Once they have a reputation for not being a lay down, they are left alone...and often respected...

TFY

[vla1120]

On 2/23/2020 at 8:25 AM, Gaeta said:

I know I won't be popular saying this but I think it's imperative we teach our children how to physically defend themselves when attacked, yes even in a school yard. It's magic to think we will build a world where there is  no violence. Our children needs to be ready to face the real world and in the real world you will have to defend yourself.

It's not unpopular to me! I agree with you. I was taught not to hit back, but then about the third time the class bully started harassing me on the playground (we're talking 45 years ago), I laid into her, punching her a few times and it knocked her down. She never bothered me again.

I taught my oldest two to always be sympathetic of others and if someone acted like a bully, there might be something in their lives they're having difficulty dealing with. So, yeah, my two oldest were bullied and teased (sometimes for being sympathetic!! How ironic.) When my youngest was growing up, I decided I had made the older two a little too sympathetic. I taught the youngest that bullying and hitting were wrong, but if someone bullies you or hits you, don't take it sitting down. Of the three of them, she is the most confident and was (and is) the least likely to be bullied by anyone.