A question for agnostic/atheist parents

[pepperbird]

If you are agnostic/atheist and a parent, what was your attitude towards religion when you were raising your kids?
I was raised agnostic, but to also have respect for the religious views of others.  My mom and dad encouraged us to learn about different religions so we could make up our own mind, but I never found one that spoke to me. I raised my kids the way I was, and they are also agnostic.

 

[major_merrick]

Obviously I'm not agnostic.  But my father was raised "sort of" Christian and I think he was agnostic later in life.  I don't recall him EVER mentioning religion to me.  I wonder if agnostics (and some atheists) would let their kids explore different religions simply because they have little attachment to the topic?  Except for militant atheists of the "I don't believe and you shouldn't either" variety. 

[basil67]

Two athiest parents here Pepper.   We raised our kids much like you did.  They had options of attending scripture and my son in particular has shown interest in learning about many religious.  Daughter studied Islam as part of her Society and Culture at school and was amazed at all the similarities to Christianity.   Yet both are still athiest.  

Edited to add that they should respect the beliefs of others and expect respect in return. They were only allowed to disagree if someone started pushing religion onto them.   For instance, during our marriage equality referendum, we had quite a bit to say about religious people pushing their views into other people's lives.  

Edited February 10, 2020 by basil67

[pepperbird]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

Two athiest parents here Pepper.   We raised our kids much like you did.  They had options of attending scripture and my son in particular has shown interest in learning about many religious.  Daughter studied Islam as part of her Society and Culture at school and was amazed at all the similarities to Christianity.   Yet both are still athiest.  

Edited to add that they should respect the beliefs of others and expect respect in return. They were only allowed to disagree if someone started pushing religion onto them.   For instance, during our marriage equality referendum, we had quite a bit to say about religious people pushing their views into other people's lives.  

It's the same for us. We were raised to respect a person;s religious views, and really, if it's coming from a good place, I don't have a problem with it. I try and be polite to the JWs who come to the door, as they truly believe they are helping-  mind you, that made them keep coming, until the day I borrowed my daughter's "hail satan taxi cab service" graphic tee when I answered the door to the two JW ladies who comb through my nieghbourhood.
They stopped coming.
In a lot of ways, I wish I could shut off the logical part of my brain and engage in some blind faith. There must be something very comforting in feeling like someone is always there watching over you who has your best interests at heart. I just can't do it. My brain screams "this makes no sense" and it all falls apart.
 

[major_merrick]

4 hours ago, pepperbird said:

In a lot of ways, I wish I could shut off the logical part of my brain and engage in some blind faith. There must be something very comforting in feeling like someone is always there watching over you who has your best interests at heart. I just can't do it. My brain screams "this makes no sense" and it all falls apart.

I always felt the same way.  But one of the things that has brought me to faith is watching how my husband raises his kids in the faith - a faith that is not blind but quite logical, and also very relational at the same time.  Kind of off topic, but there is another side. 

Let me ask - how would you feel if one (or more) of your kids became fervent believers in a faith that you dislike? 

[pepperbird]

1 hour ago, major_merrick said:

I always felt the same way.  But one of the things that has brought me to faith is watching how my husband raises his kids in the faith - a faith that is not blind but quite logical, and also very relational at the same time.  Kind of off topic, but there is another side. 

Let me ask - how would you feel if one (or more) of your kids became fervent believers in a faith that you dislike? 

Faith is a very personal thing. Unless their beliefs espoused racism, misogyny or put them in a place where they were at risk, I would keep my mouth  closed.
As for the rest? I'm not a believer iin deus ex machina. my brain is too logical- not that I'm saying I'm better. Sometimes, a logic mind can leave one feeling very alone.

[Ellener]

On 2/10/2020 at 1:12 PM, pepperbird said:

Faith is a very personal thing. Unless their beliefs espoused racism, misogyny or put them in a place where they were at risk, I would keep my mouth  closed.

Unfortunately way too much religion is espousing just those poor quality values. 

And frankly, people know the difference between right and wrong whether it's from a religious discipline or not. 

My faith is being tested right now, but it hasn't wavered any. I am not going to abuse anyone no matter how hurting I am, and people who do always regret it. Nobody regrets kindness though. 

[Ellener]

I raised my only child to be a free thinker, he's currently atheist. But so was I at his age, except I talked to God every day! I wasn't sure if that was mental illness at times, and I do think it a difficult balance to acheive and come up with all these 'absolutes'. There is a lot of comfort in religious disciplines and rituals.

[pepperbird]

4 hours ago, Ellener said:

I raised my only child to be a free thinker, he's currently atheist. But so was I at his age, except I talked to God every day! I wasn't sure if that was mental illness at times, and I do think it a difficult balance to acheive and come up with all these 'absolutes'. There is a lot of comfort in religious disciplines and rituals.

true enough. there's so much in the universe I don't understand. there's so much beauty but also so much suffering. that's why abrahamic religions never spoke to me. how could a just and loving god allow that? those of faith seem to have been able to sort through that. I never could.

[Ellener]

11 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

how could a just and loving god allow that? those of faith seem to have been able to sort through that. I never could.

Theodicy is the sticking point for religion, I agree. I think the Christian faith would be way better if the words of Jesus were more thoughtfully applied, and that's why I go to the Unitarian church, they are very dedicated to social justice and kindness in America. They represent to me way more love than other places I've been.

 

[pepperbird]

8 hours ago, Ellener said:

Theodicy is the sticking point for religion, I agree. I think the Christian faith would be way better if the words of Jesus were more thoughtfully applied, and that's why I go to the Unitarian church, they are very dedicated to social justice and kindness in America. They represent to me way more love than other places I've been.

 

that sounds really lovely. a friend of mine became a born again christian. she'd talk to me about it sometimes, and I think it was the love and acceptance that particular group showed her that really spoke to her.

[RecentChange]

On 2/10/2020 at 4:57 AM, pepperbird said:

I try and be polite to the JWs who come to the door, as they truly believe they are helping-  mind you, that made them keep coming, until the day I borrowed my daughter's "hail satan taxi cab service" graphic tee when I answered the door to the two JW ladies who comb through my nieghbourhood.
They stopped coming.

Ha! My dad has a story about his young hippy years - how the JW crew came to their area often - but stopped coming by his house after he answered the door naked one day. 

I don't have children - but I was raised by an atheist (he was raised Protestant) and a "recovered Catholic". My mother always had faith and a belief in God but dismissed many of the teachings of her strict Catholic upbringing. 

Like a few others touched on here - they, especially my mother encouraged me to explore the possibilities. A few summers I was enrolled in the local churche's Bible study program with my friends (gosh I can still remember "Good News!" as it was called). For a few years I attended a largely Jewish school and even went to synagogue. 

My mother and school taught me about other religions as well. She grew up in a Chinese neighborhood and had a fondness for Buddhism and Taoism. 

I tried to be open minded and as a kid approached religion with curiosity..... But I have to say, I have never experienced "faith". There have been a few trying times in my life where I really wanted that support and comfort that religion appears to bring to it's believers - but so far at least, I have never been able to believe. I have tried, I have had moments of "maybe this is it!" But they fade away quicker than they came.

I have my own belief system - at the moment - because I know it can change. I just believe there is a lot more to consciousness, life etc than we currently know / understand. To me religion is the old way of trying to understand it. 

[major_merrick]

11 hours ago, pepperbird said:

true enough. there's so much in the universe I don't understand. there's so much beauty but also so much suffering. that's why abrahamic religions never spoke to me. how could a just and loving god allow that? those of faith seem to have been able to sort through that. I never could.

Not to sidetrack your thread, but we call it the "problem of evil."  Tons of discussion on that, but people end up coming to terms with their own experiences.  That was one of my big barriers to faith, but I'm getting over it. 

I'd be interested to know how atheists and agnostics can come to terms with their views on afterlife, where their children are concerned.  Pregnancy was one of the things that got me into faith.  I had to know what was going to happen, even more for my children's sake than my own. So how do atheists and agnostics come to terms with the idea that there is either an unknowable afterlife or none at all?  How do children react to your answer, when they ask "Mommy, what happens when you die?" 

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, pepperbird said:

that sounds really lovely. a friend of mine became a born again christian. she'd talk to me about it sometimes, and I think it was the love and acceptance that particular group showed her that really spoke to her.

Christianity is my heritage, but I also have taken umbrage with many of the so-called Christian faiths here. I think they let each other down much as Muslim women were telling me-this is not our faith regarding terrorism a decade ago. We did this project called 'The Amazing Faiths of Houston' It was parT of the Iinterfaith ministries and I was a moderator for several years, facilitating the discussion via question cards.

4 hours ago, RecentChange said:

My mother always had faith and a belief in God but dismissed many of the teachings of her strict Catholic upbringing. 

The Catholic Church lost the plot there for a while with the child abuse scandals and not dealing with it professionally and properly.

1 hour ago, major_merrick said:

how do atheists and agnostics come to terms with the idea that there is either an unknowable afterlife or none at all?  How do children react to your answer, when they ask "Mommy, what happens when you die?" 

 I've made a will and taken out life insurance, and told my son don't waste money on my funeral. I already made my legacy in raising him to adulthood and all the stuff I've written and composed and painted, he'll have that when I'm gone.

[NuevoYorko]

2 hours ago, major_merrick said:

 

I'd be interested to know how atheists and agnostics can come to terms with their views on afterlife, where their children are concerned.  Pregnancy was one of the things that got me into faith.  I had to know what was going to happen, even more for my children's sake than my own. So how do atheists and agnostics come to terms with the idea that there is either an unknowable afterlife or none at all?  How do children react to your answer, when they ask "Mommy, what happens when you die?" 

My views on afterlife did not change because I had a child.    My daughter was raised knowing that her mother and I didn't have any answers for her about what it's like to be dead.  My own parents didn't claim they knew, either.  This has never been an issue for her.  She was raised to be a free thinker.  If she wants to explore religion,  quilting, nuclear biology, whatever, she has the tools go about seeking knowledge on whatever compels her. 

[basil67]

3 hours ago, major_merrick said:

How do children react to your answer, when they ask "Mommy, what happens when you die?"

I always answer in the context of different people believing different things, but I believe we just die and that's it.   Their reaction is something like "Ok.  What's for dinner?"   Finding that Santa wasn't real was far more distressing for my daughter.

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by basil67

[pepperbird]

5 hours ago, major_merrick said:

Not to sidetrack your thread, but we call it the "problem of evil."  Tons of discussion on that, but people end up coming to terms with their own experiences.  That was one of my big barriers to faith, but I'm getting over it. 

I'd be interested to know how atheists and agnostics can come to terms with their views on afterlife, where their children are concerned.  Pregnancy was one of the things that got me into faith.  I had to know what was going to happen, even more for my children's sake than my own. So how do atheists and agnostics come to terms with the idea that there is either an unknowable afterlife or none at all?  How do children react to your answer, when they ask "Mommy, what happens when you die?" 

 None of us know. That's what an awful lot of religion really is based on- fear. Fear of death, fear of the unknown and a need to explain the world. When my kids were small, I answered them honesty. I told them that I didn't know. It could just be that the energy that makes up a person's conscious mind is simply released back into the universe to cycle around again.

[Baman]

I was raised JW.

Left it mid thirties, blew my life apart. lost everything.

morphed into an atheist about 10 years later.

Kids stayed with wife who raised them to be JW. Both kids abandoned it as soon as they could in their teens. They saw my mode of life and beliefs via my open minded free thinker actions

and chose to follow my lead. 

 

Jehovah's Witnesses are not a religion mark my word. They are a very dangerous cult. Don't mess with them as deluded and nice as the door to door ones are.

[pepperbird]

6 minutes ago, Baman said:

I was raised JW.

Left it mid thirties, blew my life apart. lost everything.

morphed into an atheist about 10 years later.

Kids stayed with wife who raised them to be JW. Both kids abandoned it as soon as they could in their teens. They saw my mode of life and beliefs via my open minded free thinker actions

and chose to follow my lead. 

 

Jehovah's Witnesses are not a religion mark my word. They are a very dangerous cult. Don't mess with them as deluded and nice as the door to door ones are.

we used to have the mormons come to the door too. It got annoying, but luckily, the base commander at the time restricted them from entering the base so they couldn't come to the PMQs. Now that my husband;s retired and we live int he "civvy world", the JWs are back.

 I can't see my kids getting into religion, but one never knows. If it brings them comfort and a measure of happiness, great. It just never did that for me.  The closet any of them got is when my older duaghter was doing some research for one of her high school classes and wrote away to "drugfree.org" ( drug free world, I think it's called). I read through some of it, and it seemed a bit wonky. I soon found out why...drug free world is an effort of the scientologists and their dislike for medication. The dammed stuff keeps coming- it's even worse than PETA that way-even after she requested it stop. It goes straight to the shredder now.🤣

[Els]

6 hours ago, major_merrick said:

I'd be interested to know how atheists and agnostics can come to terms with their views on afterlife, where their children are concerned.  Pregnancy was one of the things that got me into faith.  I had to know what was going to happen, even more for my children's sake than my own. So how do atheists and agnostics come to terms with the idea that there is either an unknowable afterlife or none at all?  How do children react to your answer, when they ask "Mommy, what happens when you die?" 

Unless they are well and truly brainwashed (which I would strongly advise against), when they grow up they will have to face this crossroads themselves anyway, even if they were raised in a religion. Uncertainty and not knowing things is a normal and healthy part of life IMO, and raising people who have the strength to accept this is far better that just picking a random answer for the sake of being able to give one.

I actually strongly resent my parents for imposing their religion on me. When I was old enough to think for myself, I naturally started questioning the religion that I was brought up in, but they would have none of it because to them their way was the only right way. At some point, "because the Bible says so" gets incredibly old as an explanation for anything, and I stopped bothering to ask them anything at all. I weathered the crisis of grappling with what life and death means, all by myself as a young adult, ripping from beneath myself the "you will go to heaven" crutch, not being able to talk to anyone about it, and going through the pains of not having been raised with mental tools to cope with this.

If they had done as @pepperbird has: "We don't know some things and that's okay. Maybe one day we'll find out", it would have been far easier for me.

[pepperbird]

50 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

Unless they are well and truly brainwashed (which I would strongly advise against), when they grow up they will have to face this crossroads themselves anyway, even if they were raised in a religion. Uncertainty and not knowing things is a normal and healthy part of life IMO, and raising people who have the strength to accept this is far better that just picking a random answer for the sake of being able to give one.

I actually strongly resent my parents for imposing their religion on me. When I was old enough to think for myself, I naturally started questioning the religion that I was brought up in, but they would have none of it because to them their way was the only right way. At some point, "because the Bible says so" gets incredibly old as an explanation for anything, and I stopped bothering to ask them anything at all. I weathered the crisis of grappling with what life and death means, all by myself as a young adult, ripping from beneath myself the "you will go to heaven" crutch, not being able to talk to anyone about it, and going through the pains of not having been raised with mental tools to cope with this.

If they had done as @pepperbird has: "We don't know some things and that's okay. Maybe one day we'll find out", it would have been far easier for me.

Quite frankly, my parents felt at they had no business indoctrinating a young child into a faith, as they saw that as a personal decision. I'm not truly an atheist, I'm an agnostic. I have no idea whether a god/goddess/whatever keeps the universe humming along, or it could even just be a random chance. I'm just a mere mortal limited by my own ability to understand.

[Els]

5 hours ago, pepperbird said:

we used to have the mormons come to the door too. It got annoying, but luckily, the base commander at the time restricted them from entering the base so they couldn't come to the PMQs. Now that my husband;s retired and we live int he "civvy world", the JWs are back.

Interestingly, I've been approached by more Mormons than JWs, even though we live FAR away from the US. It's like they send all their boys overseas on missions or something. Nowadays, if I'm approached by two well-dressed young men with American accents.... I get the hell out of there. 🤣

[pepperbird]

2 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

Interestingly, I've been approached by more Mormons than JWs, even though we live FAR away from the US. It's like they send all their boys overseas on missions or something. Nowadays, if I'm approached by two well-dressed young men with American accents.... I get the hell out of there. 🤣

When we lived in southern ontario, I used to see them a lot more. Young men, always in pairs, walking around in the middle of summer with their suits on. They looked so uncomfortable!

[major_merrick]

13 hours ago, Elswyth said:

Unless they are well and truly brainwashed (which I would strongly advise against), when they grow up they will have to face this crossroads themselves anyway, even if they were raised in a religion. Uncertainty and not knowing things is a normal and healthy part of life IMO, and raising people who have the strength to accept this is far better that just picking a random answer for the sake of being able to give one.

I actually strongly resent my parents for imposing their religion on me. When I was old enough to think for myself, I naturally started questioning the religion that I was brought up in, but they would have none of it because to them their way was the only right way. At some point, "because the Bible says so" gets incredibly old as an explanation for anything, and I stopped bothering to ask them anything at all. I weathered the crisis of grappling with what life and death means, all by myself as a young adult, ripping from beneath myself the "you will go to heaven" crutch, not being able to talk to anyone about it, and going through the pains of not having been raised with mental tools to cope with this.

If they had done as @pepperbird has: "We don't know some things and that's okay. Maybe one day we'll find out", it would have been far easier for me.

The question in the back of my mind was always if you go to heaven, hell, or nothing.  Two of those possibilities are unpleasant.  So the result of end-of-life questions is a plan to avoid the two unpleasant possibilities if possible.  I was raised with a loose idea of heaven and hell, but no real path on how to get there.  Except possibly to die in battle...in which case heaven looked a lot like Valhalla. 

Now that I have the perspective of faith, I can't imagine not wanting to do what I can to get my kids to the heaven where I'm going.  I don't see that as imposing a view, I see it as earnestly wanting the best for my kids for eternity. 

It seems like many atheists and agnostics get to their viewpoint from a negative experience with religion.  Does that negative experience override the questions of "heaven, hell, or nothing?" 

[Pleasant-Sage]

14 hours ago, Baman said:

Jehovah's Witnesses are not a religion mark my word. They are a very dangerous cult. Don't mess with them as deluded and nice as the door to door ones are.

My Grandfather was a Southern Baptist Preacher. He had a JW preacher challenge him one day. He listened to him talk and argue against Baptist beliefs and Grandpa would debate counter points.

At the end, the JW preacher asked if he had any questions for him. He said just 2. First, he asked if they really believed only 144,000 people were going to heaven. JW preacher said they did. Grandpa then asked him why he goes door to door recruiting people then. JW preacher got up and left 😂