mea culpa for not cold approaching

[nospam99]

TL/DR per subject, I am not comfortable cold approaching.

I've been divorced for almost three years and separated for a decade prior to that. I've been 'hanging around' here on LS since realizing a couple of months after my divorce was finalized, that I didn't want to, and hopefully didn't have to, be alone for the rest of my life. Also, in spite of maybe being somewhat of a 'regular' here, 65/M (66 REAL soon now) is always worth stating to further set the context.

That's all background. What I really want feedback about in this topic is that I don't cold approach women because, for me, it's not in my self image. I like to think of myself as 'a classy guy'. My opinion about cold approaching, specifically in the situations I've been in up until now, is it's a 'player' tactic. And no way do I either see myself as a 'player' or desire to be one.

Incidentally, my self-evaluation is that I am free, easy, and friendly simply having conversations with women, smalltalk included, as I go about doing all the things I do in my life.

I want to limit my approaches, cold or otherwise, to women who I believe are 'available' AND may be interested in being approached. Consequently, I started my 'second dating life' primarily with OLD, where availability and interest are supposed to be assumed. OLD had a good, VERY good, start for me, but has since tapered off.

Examples of my failure to cold approach:

I'm unemployed now, but had a one year contract job recently. There were lots of nice, attractive women in that workplace. BUT ... we were all 'buddies', they were almost all married, and I don't ''sheet where I eat''. Just an example to start with because IMO the ''don't cold approach in the workplace'' maxim is a no-brainer.

My most incidental 'getting out in the world' activity is grocery shopping. There are plenty of reasonably appealing women at the market. BUT ... the same ones every time (I shop at a time that fits my weekly schedule) and they send NO SIGNALS (at least that I've picked up on). Again, not wanting to be seen as a player. My thought process is that the likelihood that any of these women would be comfortable being cold approached is low and that I don't want to get the reputation as a player that I think I would if I was seen working my way through the crowd.

I've participated in meetup.com groups for years, going back to 2012 when my ex-wife first asked for a divorce and I was trying to establish recreational friendships outside my failing marriage. I can recall NO signals (yet) from any of the women in my meetup groups that would suggest they'd be receptive to a cold approach from me or any of the other guys in the groups. On the contrary, on a recent meetup, the gals (I was the only male in the group for that particular event) specifically excluded me from some of the activities. The vibe is very much that everybody is there for the activity, not to find a dating partner.

I'm a ballroom dancer. To be fair, my ex-wife gets the credit for increasing my skill level as a dancer a couple of steps because she 'was' (no longer) more into it than I was back when our marriage was intact. The last several months I've been more frequently attending community dance events, in a large part to see if I can meet women. Again, the vibe is that the people there, of both genders, are there to dance, not as a mixer. I've seen no signals from the gals of any interest in me or any of the other men as anything other than dance partners. On the contrary, it seems I'm not the only guy at these events attending to try to meet women. The more frequent reaction I've observed is a male 'on the make' asking a woman to dance and she cringes. Thankfully I don't perceive that I've gotten any cringes. The nature of social ballroom dancing is that anyone is free to ask anyone else to dance and it's impolite to refuse. So a woman in a cringing situation has to either dance or be impolite. A couple of observations from me: even at my age, most of the other people at the dances appear to be older and, surprisingly, the ratio of singles attending is either 'even' or more guys than gals - totally against the stereotype that men don't dance. Though there is a mix of singles, there are also couples who attend to dance. It is impolite to 'cut in' on a couple who are clearly there to dance together. It's okay to ask the female of a couple to dance or accept her invitation if her partner/husband is sitting one out or dancing with another woman. But those situations are clearly not dancing to 'chat up' a future dating relationship (no 'swingers' visible so far). That's a lot of babble, intended to describe why my thought process and that these dances haven't been comfortable events for me to cold approach - at least not yet. Same thing as meetups - I don't want to appear to be the cringeworthy 'player'.

So .... y'all understand why I haven't cold approached? Going to send me out to situations where cold approaching might be more comfortable to me? Going to send me back to my meetups or dances with directives to 'bite the bullet' and cold approach in spite of my misgivings? Or going to allow me to maintain my 'comfort level' by doing what I've been doing while taking a 'wait and see' about getting any flirty signals?

[Piddy]

I'm about your age, but married so I can't relate to the modern world of dating.  Been a long time for me.  Back in our younger days we went to bars and met girls.  I do play golf with a guy who's 68 and lost his wife.  He recently got married to a woman he met online. 

That would seem to be the place because everyone is single (stating the obvious).  As far as the cold approach.  You see these young guys doing it on YouTube and they have success in getting the girls number.  They make it look easy.

They simply approach the woman and introduce themselves, give them a flattering complement, make a little small talk and ask for their number.  It's amazing  how it seems to work.  I realize they're showing their successes and not all the failures though. 

You have to have a thick skin I would imagine because you will get rejected a lot I would assume.  They say confidence is very attractive to women.  Doing this is the ultimate in confidence.

I wouldn't wait for a flirtatious woman to approach you.  I'd bite the bullet and be the aggressor and approach women you find attractive.  I've given this advise before, look at it like a job interview. 

Put your best effort forward, but realize you will get rejected a lot.  All it's going to take is that one though that you connect with.  But you have to put yourself out there to have a shot.

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Piddy

[schlumpy]

Is it possible that being a classy guy is limiting the number of women available to date? I love watching ballroom dancing but I have never known anyone who does it. I do know lots of people who love to line dance but that might not fit your definition of classy.

What type of women are you looking for? Aside from attractiveness what qualities does a woman need to have for you to consider her SO material?

[nospam99]

@Piddy. I've got no problem with rejection - LOL I'm still on OLD after all. My problem is I don't want to get the reputation of something I'm not - a player.

[nospam99]

@schlumpy. Being a 'classy guy' may well be limiting the number of women available to date. Probably less so at my age than if I was 40 years younger. But I don't mind that limit - it's a good 'filter' for me.

Attractiveness is certainly on my list. Beyond that I'd like to have a relationship with a women who will take a committed relationship seriously, has similar moral and ethical values e.g. family first, and has always lived and plans to continue to live a healthy lifestyle that would help enable her to be as physically and mentally active as I want to be.

[mark clemson]

I think one thing for these cold approach guys is to either be decent looking to start with (or staying within your league?) OR perhaps to wait for some indication from the woman, such as a smile or friendly gaze, etc.  Some of them, frankly, may simply be staged as well.

[nospam99]

Thinking about it, I can come up with scenarios where, 40 years ago, I'd have felt more comfortable trying a cold approach...

Try this... at the mall. An age-appropriate 'girl' (is she old enough to be called a 'woman') is shopping. Clothing store. No ring on 'that finger'.
Intro line: 'Hey, I see you shopping. Me, too. I'm looking for a trendy [shirt/slacks/sweater/jacket] for a friend's birthday. Maybe get something for me, too. But I have no fashion sense. Would you mind helping me out?'

Cheesy, but doable. Have I at least got the right idea?

Today? At my age? I've been to 'the mall' enough to be pretty sure I'm unlikely to find any 'age-appropriate' WOMEN to try this line on. I'm hard put to identify ANYWHERE I'd find a critical mass of transients. Again, my main concern is not getting tagged as a player and poisoning the well (or getting escorted off the premises by Security LOL).

And, yeah, EASY to stage a successful cold approach for youtube. The ladies can even be 'in on it' ahead of time. Marketing .....

[SumGuy]

I'm younger in my 50s and believe the cold approach advice is ridiculous.  It's a thing I have rarely seen (of course outside a club or such where it is to be expected) and when it happens it is usually creepy.

I don't believe that no signal cold approaches work,  maybe public approaches where you get a signal.

One reason I believe that "coaches" push these is because they are pretty much unattainable so you have to keep coming back for more.  It also plays into male fantasies.

On meetups, I agree that most are about the activity and women who go to them don't want to navigate being hit on.  Something may come of it through shared interest turning into talking with each other, but that is something naturally arising from a more platonic approach.   

I do believe the pub crawl/wine tasting/ even some trivia group meetups are more for the dating crowd....although I don't recall any focused on our age group.  I think in that group a better approach is to make friends with young people (30 somethings) as folks our age can provide a lot of perspective, career advice and even connections.  Then you never know if they have an older friend or heck it's just fun to be a mentor to people you can hang out with.

Most of my "cold approach" experience is striking up a conversation at a pub or grocery store.   On the pub, I strike up conversations with anybody, it's about the conversation to me...so there is not necessarily any pick up vibe going on.  So not really a cold approach, but if you really click with someone and them with you, then you suggest doing this again or something very low key, not really a "date."

On the grocery store, it's either been a woman asks me a question related to shopping (its good I love to cook and grew up in part on a farm) and the conversation expands (clearly intentionally on her part, but really i have to be in the mood for it...such off the cuff verbal dancing takes a good inner space) or it's clear she is kind of following me or more precisely always next to me at the produce.  I have to say, my grocery store encounters are always in the produce area.  hmmm.

Yet none of the very few "cold approaches" I've had have resulted in anything. 

I would't worry about cold approaches at all.  In your activities would focus on forming platonic type connections as their own reward, which leads to an expanded social circle.  Just let it naturally evolve.  Meanwhile you can still do OLD, and if yo are hanging out with singles can share war stories, a good bonding experience.

[SumGuy]

5 minutes ago, nospam99 said:

Try this... at the mall. An age-appropriate 'girl' (is she old enough to be called a 'woman') is shopping. Clothing store. No ring on 'that finger'.
Intro line: 'Hey, I see you shopping. Me, too. I'm looking for a trendy [shirt/slacks/sweater/jacket] for a friend's birthday. Maybe get something for me, too. But I have no fashion sense. Would you mind helping me out?'

I find that way too long as it sounds rehearsed.    Short is better for me.  At the grocery store more like when both looking at something, "It's hard to find a good avocado this time of year."  Then how she replies tells you everything, tone and opening for further conversation.   More of a comment.

A comment leaves it open to them and doesn't put them on any spot to answer, or they can do so with a short response.  So if they are not into at all it's an easy out.  Also some people will always respond to a request for help, even if they have no interest in you.

On clothes may say something like, "all these clothes, choice is good but one wonders if they have our generation in mind"   No on the spot asking for help, just a general comment that may connect, she can agree or disagree (either are good), expand and ask her own question, or if she wants just ignore it as your comment arguably falls into the category of thinking out loud.   If there is a good back and forth then you can ask her what she thinks looks good on you.  

Caveat, I'm not a cold approach person, never believed in it.  More of a talk to people person (when in the mood as I am a die hard introvert) and able to flirting if it arises.  

[elaine567]

43 minutes ago, nospam99 said:

Try this... at the mall. An age-appropriate 'girl' (is she old enough to be called a 'woman') is shopping. Clothing store. No ring on 'that finger'.
Intro line: 'Hey, I see you shopping. Me, too. I'm looking for a trendy [shirt/slacks/sweater/jacket] for a friend's birthday. Maybe get something for me, too. But I have no fashion sense. Would you mind helping me out?'

Sorry, but i don't work here...
 

Edited January 29, 2020 by elaine567

[Happy Lemming]

I just talk to people... My advice is just talk to people... all people, everywhere your go.  The more you do it, the more natural it becomes.  If while you are talking to a woman, you get the "vibe" that she is interested... keep talking.  If she is not, she'll let the conversation drop off and you'll know it.  At some point, ask her if she would like to continue the conversation over a cup of coffee and there you go.  From there exchange numbers and call her in the next day or two... don't text.  You show confidence when you call a woman, let her hear your voice, have some conversational topics ready. I use (feel-good) stories from my local news. (Never Politics). Have an interesting date planned and tell her about it.  Don't be cheap, you have to be able to "splash" a little money around and show a woman a nice time.

I've met women I've dated, everywhere.  The day I met my current girlfriend in the pool, I was just looking to talk to someone about an event that happened at the complex, when she kept the conversation going; I saw the opportunity to ask her out for drinks later that night.

I've met women at parties I've attended, sports I've engaged in, bank lines, bookstores (used bookstore, I'm cheap), art festivals, community gatherings, food festivals/fairs and the list goes on and on (including pubs).  Basically, everywhere I went... I just try to talk to people, not even with the intention of dating, just talking to be social. The more practice you get at it, the easier it is. It actually becomes "second nature".

Don't look at it as "cold approaching" look at it as just talking to other humans who are out in public.

[SumGuy]

23 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

Don't look at it as "cold approaching" look at it as just talking to other humans who are out in public.

Exactly! that and all the stuff didn't quote.

[Happy Lemming]

2 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

Exactly! that and all the stuff didn't quote.

One day I was working in the yard and this beautiful older woman approached me.  She was jogging in neighborhood with her grand-baby in one of those jogging stroller things.  She gave me her business card -- she is a realtor in the neighborhood.  I thought she was just looking to sell my home as she saw me working on it.  Fast forward a week, and I was riding my bike and she was jogging and flagged me down.  After a brief conversation, she asked me out for coffee; I explained I was in a committed relationship. Had I not been, I would have jumped at the chance to date this beautiful woman.

When you just talk to people, you never know what could possibly come of it.  This divorced grandmother was talking to people she found attractive (and in her age range). I do hope she found someone, but she was out trying and basically looking & talking to men.  Got to give her credit!!

[preraph]

While you're participating in dancing, just be fun and entertaining and some woman will latch onto you.  

 

On that realtor, it's possible still that she was just trying to get business.  I had one actually come over to my house and talk for a couple of hours just to get me to like her.  

[Happy Lemming]

6 minutes ago, preraph said:

On that realtor, it's possible still that she was just trying to get business.  I had one actually come over to my house and talk for a couple of hours just to get me to like her.  

Yes... that is what I thought, initially. 

At our second encounter (when she flagged me down), she was disappointed when I told her I was in a committed relationship.  She commented "Why are all the good looking guys taken??"  She explained that she was "pulling out all of the stops" and actively trying to meet men, as she had not been having any success.  I didn't ask about on-line dating, as I didn't think it was appropriate.

If I knew of someone like "nospam99", I certainly would have passed on her contract information and let her know about this GREAT single friend I had, but I really didn't know of anyone I could recommend.

She was quite beautiful, striking, active, etc.  But, I'm happy with my life and my current partner.

[schlumpy]

4 hours ago, nospam99 said:

@schlumpy. Being a 'classy guy' may well be limiting the number of women available to date. Probably less so at my age than if I was 40 years younger. But I don't mind that limit - it's a good 'filter' for me.

Attractiveness is certainly on my list. Beyond that I'd like to have a relationship with a women who will take a committed relationship seriously, has similar moral and ethical values e.g. family first, and has always lived and plans to continue to live a healthy lifestyle that would help enable her to be as physically and mentally active as I want to be.

Given the list of criteria you have provided,  I suggest you read Enigma32's thread on his quest to find a wife in the Philippines. It may or may not appeal to you.

[greymatter]

I hadn’t realized that you are unemployed. Sorry to hear that. I’m guessing the cold approach is not going to work given that women in your age group don’t want to be on the hook for supporting an unemployed guy. 

[nospam99]

@greymatter. Technically I could say I'm 'retired' or 'semi-retired'. I've got enough savings and investments that, should I choose, I never 'need' to work again. Regardless, if I enter a relationship with a woman, she won't have to support me.

[nospam99]

@elaine. LOL - you're making a case against 'cold approach ala nospam age 25'

[Miss Spider]

I’m probably outside of your age group, but cold approach is definitely more welcome in situations that are intended to be social. Like when I’m out shopping etc I’m really focused and don’t want to be bothered much. I mean if the guy were really cute I might make an exception, but even then my thought is always that he is doing this a lot / is a player type even if it’s not true. It just takes a fair bit of ‘game’ to cold approach someone. Quite a bit of confidence. I feel like for some people that might be very appreciated, though. As long as you’re gentlemanly about it. 

[Piddy]

8 hours ago, nospam99 said:

@Piddy. I've got no problem with rejection - LOL I'm still on OLD after all. My problem is I don't want to get the reputation of something I'm not - a player.

Not familiar with OLD, but why would you be concerned as being known as a player?  Do these women all talk to each other? (being facetious )  That would be my last concern.   

[Happy Lemming]

2 hours ago, nospam99 said:

@greymatter. Technically I could say I'm 'retired' or 'semi-retired'. I've got enough savings and investments that, should I choose, I never 'need' to work again.

If you do decide to retire, can I say "Congrats"!!  HURRAY!! 

I did two years ago and its been the greatest time of my life, since I was a young child! I love retirement!!  YIPPEE!!

Not meaning to hi-jack your thread, but wanted to congratulate you on a "possible new chapter" in your life.

[nospam99]

@Piddy. Depends of the situation. In the meetup groups and community dances, many of the women talk to each other. The place I grocery shop is more of a produce market and deli. A lot of the staff recognize me and the other customers and we customers recognize each other. If I started cold approaching the other customers there, I'd be concerned about getting a reputation as a player. I actually have a friendly personal chatting relationship with the cashier on the express line. I always check out with her if she's working. She's a sweetheart, but not a potential date (no appeal to me).

I have no problem with my reputation on OLD - there I doubt the women talk to each other. What that boils down to is, if you could even call an OLD message a 'cold approach' (it IS in a way), it's appropriate for the situation. But given the practical limits of my 'real life socializing' (shopping, meetups, community dances), I don't want to behave as a 'player' there. LOL again because my other social activity is playing RPGs at a game store (definitely a 'player' there!) But that's yet another situation where the small group dynamics break if someone uses the game to cold approach for romantic purposes.

I'm reading the feedback I'm getting on this topic (so far) that it's okay to keep doing what I'm doing and continue to 'wait and see' if/until some woman there (more meetups and dances than shopping) sends 'interested signals' (old reliables: eye contact, smile directed my way or, dare I hope, asking to continue with the 'next' dance). I do freely talk to the other people, just not with a cold 'want my number?' or 'want to give me yours?' And the frequency I go on the hiking meetups will increase as the weather warms up.

I admit I'm reassured about my judgement that you folks are not scolding me for not being the kind of 'gentleman' who cold approaches every female in whatever room I'm in.

[Lotsgoingon]

 

You can make a few adjustments to meet more people and date more.

Let's start with the whole obsession with not being a "player." That's a distraction and a misunderstanding of the social world. You can't "appear" to be a player. You either are a player (and there's tons of attitude and body language and lust and lots else that goes with that) or you are not. 

I have a close friend who is flat-out gorgeous ... She told me hilarious player stories because she got hit on so much. Her punchline: players have no higher success rate than anyone else. They simply ask out a lot more people than the non-players. The non-player encounters one woman who is disinterested and gets demoralized, doubts himself, makes broad conclusions about what women want and all of that. The player simply moves on to ask out a bunch more women. 

 If you're reasonably warm and friendly, and are gregarious in order to meet someone you really like, you are not a player. You cannot be "mistaken" for a player if you're looking for a relationship. You might be mistaken for being awkward or needy if you're too out there and desperate, but that's something different.

On getting "signals" from women. You don't need to wait for a "signal." BTW: the signal in social dance that someone isn't interested, of course, is that if a man starts walking their way ... and they move the other way ... or pretend they don't see you ... that means they don't want you to approach. The women who make eye contact with you as you walk their way, who don't look away--that's the signal they're willing to dance with you. 

You want to just keep starting conversations ... but ... there is a paradox here ... If you approach every woman and every encounter as if you're looking for a serious relationship--and soon!--that doesn't work. You're rushing things. Instead, simply say hi, smile ... talk about the weather, the dance, whatever is on your mind.  A good cold approach is just looking at someone and saying "hi." You get a "hi" back ... then you say more ... 

On meeting people at dances ... the success I've had with making friends and dating ... comes over time ... On the way out of a dance, if there's a woman walking out near you, you can say "hi" or start a conversation. "Wow, that band was good." Just throw out a friendly line ... a light line ... an honest line. "Are you a regular here?" Then shut up and let the woman respond. You'll find yourself in conversations ... and it'll be clear who you enjoy talking to ... and who you don't. It'll be clear who's talkative back to you ... and who's not. Sometimes you might have three times, five times, when you have brief exchanges with someone on the way out ... before the ice really breaks and you talk to them with some real comfort and depth. 

Also, some social dance groups get together afterwards ... head to a diner for example. Never the entire group, and never is this officially announced to the entire dance. But if you stay around to the end and keep your ears open, you'll sometimes here "we're going to meet at x place." At the diner, you can get to really talk to people. 

You can use the etiquette of social dance as a guide for approaching people. I've long accepted that I cannot predict how fun a dance will be with a particular woman until I dance with her. She can look great dancing with someone else, and yet she and I might fall flat. I cannot predict who I have dance chemistry with, I've learned. Can't predict it based on how they're dressed, their age, even based on having a quick fun conversation with them before we dance together. 

I was at a dance festival a few months back ... and I had some unbelievable dances with women I wouldn't have predicted chemistry with. Well ... just as I cannot predict who I will have great dance chemistry with ... I try to be open when I say hello to people in general. You never know who you'll have conversational chemistry with. 

A short rule: start the conversation--don't wait for a "positive signal." Lots of women are shy ... lots of women are afraid of showing too much interest ... lots of women fear men will label them "easy" or will manipulate them ... if they show too much interest too soon ... So you don't want to wait for a positive signal. Yes, pay attention to strongly negative signals (on the dance floor or in the grocery aisle) but don't wait for a positive signal. Approach "neutral" people ... but lightly ... ask them to dance ... say hello. Crack a joke ... mention something interesting you're thinking. And see what happens. All you need is brief eye contact and that's a green light to say hello to someone ... depending on their response, you say more. You don't need to calculate this. 

TL/DR: Lose the player fear ... one doesn't "seem like" a player--and go ahead and approach people with neutral signals ... or no signal. And don't treat every possible greeting as if this could be your soulmate ... that's needy and clingy and desperate ... and undermines a relaxed conversation that ultimately leads to chemistry and connection.

 

 

 

[nospam99]

@cookies. Yeah, if my self-image were in the Brad Pitt space (it's not), I'd probably long since have developed the 'game' to freely cold approach women. For me a lot has to do with perceiving that I rarely receive the kinds of non-verbal signals that communicate a 'your cold approach would be welcome' message.