Banana Bender Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I have no experience of the foster system. Unfortunately what we see in the media and in fiction usually shows a very negative side, but who knows how accurate that is. So I don't know who you are, who your daughter is, or your situation. So the following are general comments. You don't in this thread discuss her age or mental aptitude. But you talk about her being an artist, and about trusting her alone, so I'm guessing she is at least a teen? Certainly old enough not to be throwing tantrums like that. As such, you need to realise the difference between "understanding" and enabling. Understanding why a troubled child behaves they way they did, is important, but so too is teaching them not to behave that way. And like everything else, you need to balance the carrot and the stick. It's all very well to say "let's both be calm" but be careful the message you are conveying. It is understandable and normal for you to be seething that she kicked your dog. It is not normal nor acceptable for her to fly into a rage over her crayons. As I said, I don't know your situation, I have not read any of your other threads. But if you have not already, at some point you need to make a decision about WHO this child is, and therefore what your commitment is to her. Link to post Share on other sites
Ellener Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I do have experience of young people like this with emotional and behavioural problems ( former social worker ) and it sounds like she is actually doing very well, she's bonded to you ( and the dog except for this incident ) and has a creative outlet and the capacity to discuss problems. Banana Bender is right on this: 6 minutes ago, Banana Bender said: at some point you need to make a decision about WHO this child is, and therefore what your commitment is to her. If you are not in this for the long haul you need to discuss it with the social worker soon so an appropriate transition and new placement can be found. None of us parents sign up for what life throws at us or our children is worth remembering too, any relationship involving deep love and commitment will have challenges. My son came home from college with an opiod addiction one year, I had years of experience dealing with similar situations professionally fortunately but- it's not the same. We did though, he was clean within a week and our relationship three years on is close as ever, he's about to graduate. And he loves my new little dog, though I seem to remember him being angry with our old dog a few times who he also loved deeply and still talks about. It's one of the most rewarding things in life to help a child ( at whatever stage of life ) develop their full potential. But it's the rough with the smooth! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
major_merrick Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 3 hours ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said: No, but that is a good question. He actually really likes dogs. He just likes everything with a heartbeat to behave on his terms. Yeah....dogs (and other critters) tend to have minds of their own. Dogs have the irritating habit of putting their mouths on EVERYTHING. If you get critters, you get critters whose normal selves you can deal with. You live in their house, not vice versa LOL 1 hour ago, divegrl said: In order to have some sense of control, she has created a world, with her art, where things need to be perfect. Anything that happens to this created world will destroy her. GREAT observation. Reminds me of my own youth, actually. I used to draw because it was one of the few things I could control. Haven't done it in years, but then I control my whole life now. When I was a teenager, I had very little control except what I could put on 8.5"x11" paper. I totally forgot how that felt. Putting myself in Claire's shoes, yeah I'd be pretty mad. When you grow up poor, every small item you own is precious.... you use things carefully, because you might not get another. Cheap things like notebooks and erasers are used sparingly and kept very tidy. Food is rationed, and stashed in secret places for the times when you don't have any. If Claire's background is like mine, I can see how the destruction of something small can seem like a world-ending event. It removes what rationality you've got, and you go full-on crazy temporarily. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 For those unfamiiar with me: She is 15. My moral commitment is for life, my legal guardianship is till she turns 18. She's not a stranger to me I saw her grow up, she is my deceased ex-huband child so my own daughter half sister. When she was taken away from her mother Claire asked to come live with me. Things are very quiet this morning, we usually chitchat a lot, but now there is a big silence between us. I said good morning and she replied. I had never seen her this mad, she had never seen me this mad. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 31 minutes ago, Gaeta said: I had never seen her this mad, she had never seen me this mad. As you know, part of your job is to usher her into adulthood knowing how to make good choices so she will become a good adult. Look at this as just another one of those lessons for her.....learning that it's not ok to take out your frustration that way, so you need to take a breather and come up with another solution. Make it a teaching moment and hopeflly tempers will diffuse. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ja123 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 16 hours ago, Art_Critic said: You have to figure out a way to get thru to her, chances are the dog is fine so she didn't commit a heinous household crime that would require home life changes but she needs to be reached so she can work on changing how she feels about your dog. Maybe her punishment is that she should work a weekend at a no kill rescue shelter so she can learn that dogs are people too!! This!!! If you backed out on her now, who is she supposed to trust? Yet, hurting your dog is absolutely wrong and she must learn to understand that. ow what I mean. Guess this kid was kicked herself, if not literally than ... well, you kn 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) How old is she? Really, if she's over 7, there's not much hope for teaching her empathy. She now knows you don't like that, so all that means is she will do it to the dog behind your back. Edited January 19, 2020 by preraph 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 15 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I used to do some behavior work on cats at the zoo. Since the zoo was city-owned, they sent criminals there to do their community service after putting them through orientation. So this young man was there when I was supposed to go off-shift, but I had a bad feeling about him, so I stuck around and observed, and he was poking the cat with a stick and just trying to make it mad. It takes a lot more than just punishing someone to keep them from continuing the behavior. It usually takes deterrence. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 She doesn't nag the dog for nothing. She is pretty indifferent toward him.. She is not like those people getting pleasure out of poking or hurting animals. It's also the first time in 18 months she expresses anger under any shape or form.. She is a very quiet kid. I think it's more a matter of 'losing it' than a matter of being mean to animals. After the box of coloring pen fell on the floor I thought she'd put the box away in a safe spot but she took the box and throw them across her bedroom breaking them even more. At the time I asked why she had done that and she was too livid to reply. Link to post Share on other sites
Ellener Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 hours ago, preraph said: How old is she? Really, if she's over 7, there's not much hope for teaching her empathy. She now knows you don't like that, so all that means is she will do it to the dog behind your back. There is no evidence that empathy has to be learned by age 7, in fact children under seven it's common for tantrums and they are so centred on their own world they do not have full empathy, it has to be learned throughout childhood. 2 hours ago, preraph said: I used to do some behavior work on cats at the zoo. Since the zoo was city-owned, they sent criminals there to do their community service after putting them through orientation. So this young man was there when I was supposed to go off-shift, but I had a bad feeling about him, so I stuck around and observed, and he was poking the cat with a stick and just trying to make it mad. It takes a lot more than just punishing someone to keep them from continuing the behavior. It usually takes deterrence. Very few people/criminals would do this though preraph. And it is as likely to be ignorance as psychopathy if they did, such as people who fight birds/dogs or back in the UK years ago hunt foxes, say. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 She's 15! She's very unlikely to learn empathy at this age with a foster background. Link to post Share on other sites
divegrl Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Sensory items may help her. A weighted blanket or stuffed animal. Lavender spray. Thinking putty. This is so tough; Gaeta you are an extraordinary person. Thinking about you today. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 For what it’s worth, I don’t think we can expect 15 year old girls who have had questionable parenting and endured an upheaval of home and school to have all the answers. Dare I say it, I think the fact that she has finally expressed anger with you is actually a good sign - she feels safe enough in your home and with your relationship to do so. Unfortunately, what she has to learn is that her behaviour was very inappropriate and unacceptable to you, in your home. When things cool down, it’s important to to talk with her and her social worker about the incident and to help her to develop some more appropriate ways to deal with her anger in the future. This can be a very important learning experience, is you use it as such. And I too would explore the option of volunteering at a pet shelter, to learn how to treat animals well and develop more empathy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MsJayne Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Sounds like she's angry about a lot more than a pen. That's bottled-up rage looking for an opening. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 My hats off to you, Gaeta. You are truly doing a good thing for this young lady and for society. I cannot fathom the commitment you must have to do the right thing to have taken this on. I'm wishing you the best. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ellener Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, preraph said: She's 15! She's very unlikely to learn empathy at this age with a foster background. Do you have problem children preraph? You seem very emphatic about this point. Edited January 20, 2020 by Ellener spelling Link to post Share on other sites
Ellener Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) One thing to add, I am in my fifties and in my generation 15 was a lot 'older' than the 15 of today. We were expected to work and to have one foot out the door so our parents could get on with their lives. Young people today take longer to mature but so long as she does it's all credit to you OP. I said to my son age 19 once that I was married by his age, his response 'yeah, and how did that turn out?' Touché... Edited January 20, 2020 by Ellener spelling Link to post Share on other sites
Cookiesandough Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) Please watch your dog around this girl. She needs help for behavioral problems Edited January 20, 2020 by Cookiesandough 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 I'm no expert when it comes to psychology, but is it possible this girl is living with PTSD that requires treatment? It sounds like she had a tough go with her dad passing away and deciding not to stay with her mom. She has a lot on her plate, and that can come out in ways that have nothing to do with the original source of her pain. Someone above mentioned helping her to address everything she has been through by giving her a chance to interact with animals. That's a great idea, under supervised conditions. Oddly enough, even looking after a plant or "dish garden" like a terrarium can be very relaxing. It's also very rewarding, and connects her with the natural world in a way that she can control. I grow orchids, and have found it's a great way to unwind and de stress. "plant nights" have become really popular, and it could be an activity the two of you could do together. You get all the supplies you need, a plant and instructions for getting a terrarium, dish garden, whatever set up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 Things are back to normal at home. Now memories are coming back to me, how she tells him to go away, how she pushes him off her favorite chair. When I ask why she is so intolerant she says she doesn't want dog hair on her chair, or he smells dog, sometimes the dog brings her his toys and she'll tell him to go away or she'll call me and ask that I take him away. I really have underestimated what was going on. A while ago she asked me for a cat, and I said no. When she moved in with me she had to leave her cat behind, I know she misses it. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 52 minutes ago, Gaeta said: A while ago she asked me for a cat, and I said no. When she moved in with me she had to leave her cat behind, I know she misses it. Is it possible she blames the dog for this? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Shining One said: Is it possible she blames the dog for this? Yes, in a way it could be why she is not liking my dog. When she goes to her friends they have dogs and she comes back talking how they're cute and funny. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JTSW Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 He Gaeta, Is your dog ok? I'm the biggest animal lover ever and hearing of someone hurting one really gets to me. I can see him in your pic and he is absolutely gorgeous. He looks so cuddly and sweet and i hate that she did that to him. Hope the vet visit goes and that she hasn't caused any internal injury to him. Yes, report her behavior to the social worker because its abuse. Sending big kisses to your pup from me x 1 Link to post Share on other sites
vla1120 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 On 1/20/2020 at 10:14 AM, Gaeta said: Things are back to normal at home. Now memories are coming back to me, how she tells him to go away, how she pushes him off her favorite chair. When I ask why she is so intolerant she says she doesn't want dog hair on her chair, or he smells dog, sometimes the dog brings her his toys and she'll tell him to go away or she'll call me and ask that I take him away. I really have underestimated what was going on. A while ago she asked me for a cat, and I said no. When she moved in with me she had to leave her cat behind, I know she misses it. Since you are planning on this being a permanent arrangement, perhaps she could bring her cat or adopt a cat from the shelter? Maybe she could keep the cat in her room if the dog would not accept the cat very well. I'm a dog person, but all three of my daughters are serious cat people. If it came between giving up their cats or being forced to live under a bridge in a cardboard box, they would be busy designing their living space for the cardboard box. Most importantly, giving her a permanent home is a kind and selfless thing for you to do. She's lucky to have you. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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