Wife regretting not having kids

[daisy1333]

20 hours ago, ajequals said:

I'm reading this thinking How selfish some men are(I use to be one of them) to not want to Have a little mini me in your life. As far as the women with these claims I'm not really buying it either ..I have personally see there is not greater joy a women could have than having and raising a child and until a women conceives her body and mine does not change revealing that joy..Both of my children are adults. ,over Christmas I visited the oldest ,my son ..It was a very emotional experience actually staying with you child at his or her house for the first time. And those claims of ,I can't afford them or I don't have time or even this one, we travel. are just BS. you adapt to what ever falls in your path. something else I think about now is how lonely it would  be as I get older not to have them in my life ,no one to care about you , look in on you..and feel proud about bringing into this world and raise to be good people  ..At the moment my greatest accomplishments. , way more so than the money, cars, houses..

Yeah I can tell you there are a million things that bring me joy and a child would never be one of them. If a man doesn’t want kids that’s his right. Couples just need to agree.there is no compromise to this issue. 

[daisy1333]

9 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Their are social and cultural factors that have forced or enticed people to defer children.  However, even when the choice is made that drive still exists.  Which is evident in this topic. 

We could have 1000 women come on this thread and say they never wanted children and I wouldn't believe one of them. Rather,  they suppressed their desire for other interests.  That is social drives. In many ways convincing oneself that they never wanted children eases the regret of not having children.  Many of these women then become very vocal about their choices and look for ways to support that decision as a way to combat the judgement and confusion of those who dont understand the choice.

Saying that procreation isnt biological goes against everything science and religion is, no matter which you believe.  Fact is, living beings have one proven purpose to exist. Everything outside of that is driven by social and cultural norms and expectations 

Believe what you want man, but I’ve never wanted kids. Got pregnant and had an abortion within the week because I had no desire for that life. Not all women want that. Some of us have other goals and believe me or not I really don’t care. 

[Cookiesandough]

We tend to wonder about what ifs no matter what path we choose. So yea, I think so

[SummerDreams]

Everyone is talking about women having kids but nobody mentioned whether the mother would be good in raising them. I know I wouldn't. I know I would pressure the kid a lot, I would expect from them to show me love all the time and I would be heart broken when I would see they don't need me. I have trouble accepting that my dog is an independent animal and she doesn't like to be hugged or be with me 24/7. Why would I have a kid when I know that I will be a bad mom? Or should I not care about this and leave biology do its thing?

[Woggle]

I think that some of this is the fact that our niece will be graduating from college this year and will be an adult so my wife feels like somebody who is sort of like a daughter to her is all grown up. She is closer to her than she is to her own parents in many ways. When she was home last summer she spent a good chunk of that at our house. Even stayed at our place while we were away and took care of the cat.

[basil67]

Woggle, for what it’s worth, I sometimes have the what if’s for if I hadn’t had kids.  

[The Outlaw]

8 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I try to let go of regrets and embrace the life I'm in. Easier said than done, but life's much better if you can manage to enjoy it. 

I try not to regret some of the choices I’ve made. But not settling down myself with a family I feel will only get worse if I don’t do something about it. I have my reasons for backing down and I just don’t feel they can be easily fixed if at all. 

[schlumpy]

12 hours ago, DKT3 said:

The drive to have children is a biological thing, that the female body will have regardless of the intellectual thought process. That drive HAS to be suppressed.  Some women have a much stronger drive then other, but to suggest that one never had the drive or desire is not true no matter how loudly one protest.

I'm not trying to change your mind but my wife decided no kids very early on in our marriage. Her explanation was she didn't think that she would be very good as a mother. I was ambivalent so we only talked about it a couple of times over the years but she never wavered.

My relatives always thought that it was me who had made that decision because nephews and nieces gravitate towards my wife and she enjoys interacting with them. My only guess is that it's an artifact from her own childhood.

I just asked her about this biological imperative and she claims that she felt no drive for children that she had to suppress and of course I never pressured her.

 

[Ruby Slippers]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

Woggle, for what it’s worth, I sometimes have the what if’s for if I hadn’t had kids.  

Love this! And I'm curious what you feel you might have missed out on by having kids, if you don't mind sharing.

I just broke up with someone and we were seriously discussing a future and kids, so of course the thought crossed my mind: "Well, my chances of having kids just slipped a little further away." Ultimately this is negative thinking and not necessarily true.

But being pretty determined not to get too down about moving on, I'm looking to the future. This vivacious colleague with the most amazing positive vibe recently befriended me. She has a few sophisticated man friends she goes out with for fun now and then. Her most recent one picked her up for their last date in a DeLorean! She showed me this adorable picture of her sitting in it.

I'm figuring out that some of the most amazing women are 40+ women who could easily be in a relationship, but aren't gonna do it unless it's divine. We're all thrilled when one of our soul sisters finds love, and right there to commiserate if it falls through. I'm figuring out that if there's anybody I can count on to be there for me in times of real trouble, it's one of these incredible ladies. In other words, there's a whole 'nother world out there in the kid-free realm, and it's pretty sweet, too!

[Els]

It's interesting that people are bringing up selfishness. IMO being a responsible, active, and involved parent is certainly selfless... but the desire to reproduce is a selfish one (not that there's anything wrong with that, most things we want in life are inherently about us). Especially for the man, whose only contribution to the process is an orgasm, after which someone else risks her life and health for a year to carry his genes. I mean, that's as selfish as you get. For the woman it's a bit more complex since she's sacrificing her own life and health. Also, I think parents who volunteer to take on adopted kids, especially those with disabilities or illness, are f***ing amazing humans. To me that would be one of the most selfless things someone could ever do - but I am not that selfless.

Woggle, I think your wife is experiencing a bit of nostalgia for the niece. It happens. Just give her time and space IMO.

 

15 hours ago, DKT3 said:

The drive to have children is a biological thing, that the female body will have regardless of the intellectual thought process. That drive HAS to be suppressed.

15 hours ago, Kitty Tantrum said:

The very CONCEPT that humans have "evolved" a certain way DEPENDS on the mechanism of reproduction - and accounting for the limitations of human pregnancy and mortality, the survival of the species depends on the majority being subject to this biological imperative. That is LIFE.

I don't think both of you understand the difference between a biological imperative to have sex, and a biological imperative to reproduce. The two are quite different, even though before the age of contraception, they were viewed as the same thing. Again, there is NOTHING wrong with people wanting children, nor do these facts invalidate the strong desire that you and some others feel to have them.

Consider two questions:

1. Do you think that cats and dogs have sex because they feel the urge to have sex, or because they feel like they want to have kittens and puppies?

2 a. If your answer to the above is "kittens and puppies", can you explain why? If mammals are all biologically hardwired to desire offspring, why do you think they evolved thousands of erogenous nerve endings in the penis (and in many species, the clitoris), and a sex drive? Nerves are incredible resource hogs, requiring fat and protein to build, and a sex drive distracts individuals from survival. Evolution is never wasteful, even when it seems like it - a trait only evolves because it confers a competitive or reproductive advantage. If mammals' genetic makeup was already driving them strongly to reproduce without sex needing to be pleasurable, there would be no advantage to evolving a sensitive penis/clitoris or a sex drive. If you can come up with a reasonable answer, you could write a paper on it.

2 b. If your answer to the above is "they feel the urge to have sex", then what exactly do you think changed in the biological makeup between humans and their mammalian cousins, that makes humans "hardwired" to desire to make human babies, instead of having sex due to feeling the urge to have sex like all other sexually reproducing species?

 

[DKT3]

1 hour ago, Elswyth said:

It's interesting that people are bringing up selfishness. IMO being a responsible, active, and involved parent is certainly selfless... but the desire to reproduce is a selfish one (not that there's anything wrong with that, most things we want in life are inherently about us). Especially for the man, whose only contribution to the process is an orgasm, after which someone else risks her life and health for a year to carry his genes. I mean, that's as selfish as you get. For the woman it's a bit more complex since she's sacrificing her own life and health. Also, I think parents who volunteer to take on adopted kids, especially those with disabilities or illness, are f***ing amazing humans. To me that would be one of the most selfless things someone could ever do - but I am not that selfless.

Woggle, I think your wife is experiencing a bit of nostalgia for the niece. It happens. Just give her time and space IMO.

 

I don't think both of you understand the difference between a biological imperative to have sex, and a biological imperative to reproduce. The two are quite different, even though before the age of contraception, they were viewed as the same thing. Again, there is NOTHING wrong with people wanting children, nor do these facts invalidate the strong desire that you and some others feel to have them.

Consider two questions:

1. Do you think that cats and dogs have sex because they feel the urge to have sex, or because they feel like they want to have kittens and puppies?

2 a. If your answer to the above is "kittens and puppies", can you explain why? If mammals are all biologically hardwired to desire offspring, why do you think they evolved thousands of erogenous nerve endings in the penis (and in many species, the clitoris), and a sex drive? Nerves are incredible resource hogs, requiring fat and protein to build, and a sex drive distracts individuals from survival. Evolution is never wasteful, even when it seems like it - a trait only evolves because it confers a competitive or reproductive advantage. If mammals' genetic makeup was already driving them strongly to reproduce without sex needing to be pleasurable, there would be no advantage to evolving a sensitive penis/clitoris or a sex drive. If you can come up with a reasonable answer, you could write a paper on it.

2 b. If your answer to the above is "they feel the urge to have sex", then what exactly do you think changed in the biological makeup between humans and their mammalian cousins, that makes humans "hardwired" to desire to make human babies, instead of having sex due to feeling the urge to have sex like all other sexually reproducing species?

 

This is a pointless debate.....if you really believe this there is no point in responding 

[RecentChange]

1 hour ago, Elswyth said:

It's interesting that people are bringing up selfishness. IMO being a responsible, active, and involved parent is certainly selfless... but the desire to reproduce is a selfish one (not that there's anything wrong with that, most things we want in life are inherently about us).

 

I have always felt the same way – Yes being a parent, and dedicating your life to your child is a selfless act.

But CHOOSING to have a child – are there any reasons to do this that aren’t selfish? I would honestly like to hear them.

*I* want the experience of raising a child

*I* want a child to make my life feel more fulfilling

*I* want a child to create another human who has my genes

*I* want a child in order to raise a human with my beliefs and values

*I* want a child in order to bring my relationship closer.

*I* want a child so I am not lonely

*I* want a child so someone will take care of me when I am old

*I* want a child because I want someone to love

So tell – what reasons are there to have a child that do not start with fulfilling your own needs and desires? What is an example of an altruistic reason to choose to have children? 

And I too have a lot of admiration for foster parents, those who adopt troubled kids etc. To me yes, that is a very selfless act, a show of compassion, helping those in need etc. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by RecentChange

[DKT3]

12 hours ago, daisy1333 said:

Believe what you want man, but I’ve never wanted kids. Got pregnant and had an abortion within the week because I had no desire for that life. Not all women want that. Some of us have other goals and believe me or not I really don’t care. 

The fact that throughout your life you've constantly told yourself you didn't want kids is suppressing the desire.  No one who isnt a drug addict walks around saying I never want to try drugs. 

[Bittersweetie]

6 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

The fact that throughout your life you've constantly told yourself you didn't want kids is suppressing the desire.  No one who isnt a drug addict walks around saying I never want to try drugs. 

DKT3, why is so difficult for you to believe women? Why continue to question their choices?

Edited January 15, 2020 by Bittersweetie

[Els]

19 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

This is a pointless debate.....if you really believe this there is no point in responding 

"If I really believe the most commonly accepted hypotheses in evolutionary biology?" Haha, wow.

I agree that this is pointless. I don't regret being childfree, but I certainly regret wasting 20 minutes of my life trying to engage in a scientific debate with the equivalent of a squeaky toy... I'll never get that back.

13 minutes ago, RecentChange said:

So tell – what reasons are there to have a child that do not start with fulfilling your own needs and desires? What is an example of an altruistic reason to choose to have children? 

And I too have a lot of admiration for foster parents, those who adopt troubled kids etc. To me yes, that is a very selfless act, a show of compassion, helping those in need etc. 

I would be very interested in hearing this, too. FTR, I don't think this is necessarily a "childfree" vs "with children" debate, either. The first person I heard to make this distinction between the two (reproducing vs parenthood) was a parent. His words made a lot of sense to me.

[Els]

4 minutes ago, Bittersweetie said:

DKT3, why is so difficult for you to believe women? Why continue to question their choices?

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20180727-mansplaining-explained-in-one-chart

[Els]

6 hours ago, DKT3 said:

The fact that throughout your life you've constantly told yourself you didn't want kids is suppressing the desire.  No one who isnt a drug addict walks around saying I never want to try drugs. 

LOL, so a man who goes through life saying he doesn't want marriage or kids is also "suppressing the desire"? Every man secretly wants marriage and/or children, they just don't know it? 😂

What a load of baloney. If I went around insisting that I "knew" that about all men, I'd be called a misandrist and an idiot... and they'd be right.

Edited January 15, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[RecentChange]

What's the point in debating a man that says a 1,000 women could  tell him what they know about themselves yet he has the arrogance and audacity to truly believe he knows them better than they know themselves?

His opinion means jack to me.

I simply speak my truth so other women who feel the same why know that they are not alone. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Daisydooks]

43 minutes ago, RecentChange said:

But CHOOSING to have a child – are there any reasons to do this that aren’t selfish? I would honestly like to hear them.

 I want a child. Children? Questionable. One would be wonderful. I cannot with an seriousness tell you you're wrong here because you're not. Every single point in your comment was spot on, even if I'm someone who desires motherhood. It's a selfish desire. 

Any and all reasons I have for wanting a child are all for selfish reasons when I put them down on paper. To me, it is more selfish to have them, than to go without. Wanting to be a mother has always been fueled by a selfish desire of some persuasion if I'm being 100% honest.  

[Els]

3 minutes ago, Daisydooks said:

 I want a child. Children? Questionable. One would be wonderful. I cannot with an seriousness tell you you're wrong here because you're not. Every single point in your comment was spot on, even if I'm someone who desires motherhood. It's a selfish desire. 

Any and all reasons I have for wanting a child are all for selfish reasons when I put them down on paper. To me, it is more selfish to have them, than to go without. Wanting to be a mother has always been fueled by a selfish desire of some persuasion if I'm being 100% honest.  

Thank you for sharing. And it's perfectly okay IMO! All of us have "selfish" dreams and goals for our lives. I hope you get what you desire.

[Woggle]

Some women want kids and some don't and it's the same for men. Generalizations are just stupid. Now that we have that out of the way can we not turn this thread into some back and forth gender war?

I know my wife is not being selfish by not having kids. She admits that she loves spoiling them after they turn 8 but she would not be good with a baby. I joked that maybe we could adopt a 12 year old which looking back was sort of insensitive but she laughed. She did ask if her 14 year old nephew could come over for the weekend though so maybe the pull is strong with her. 

[RecentChange]

9 minutes ago, Daisydooks said:

 I want a child. Children? Questionable. One would be wonderful. I cannot with an seriousness tell you you're wrong here because you're not. Every single point in your comment was spot on, even if I'm someone who desires motherhood. It's a selfish desire. 

Any and all reasons I have for wanting a child are all for selfish reasons when I put them down on paper. To me, it is more selfish to have them, than to go without. Wanting to be a mother has always been fueled by a selfish desire of some persuasion if I'm being 100% honest.  

Yes! And that's perfectly fine! I can understand wanting these things (even if I don't).

I am just sick of hearing (although I will admit, it's online, it's not something I ever encounter in my real life) that it's "selfish" to not have children, and it's a choice only selfish people make.

My counter - tell me one selfless reason to have children.

[RecentChange]

7 minutes ago, Woggle said:

I know my wife is not being selfish by not having kids. She admits that she loves spoiling them after they turn 8 but she would not be good with a baby. I joked that maybe we could adopt a 12 year old which looking back was sort of insensitive but she laughed. She did ask if her 14 year old nephew could come over for the weekend though so maybe the pull is strong with her. 

Serious question - would you two be willing to look into fostering? Or what about a big sister program? Or another way to work with kids who need another adult in their lives?

As much as I say "I hate kids" - there are actually some circumstances which I enjoy being of service.

I volunteer time with a therapy program that uses horses for severely disabled children. When I was younger I used to work with Inner City Outings which gives inner city preteens an opportunity to experience the outdoors. I tend to take more of a support role than directly working with the kids - but like they say, "it takes a village" and more people are always needed at these non profits. 

Really rewarding stuff.

Perhaps if there was a way she could do some mentoring she could get that itch scratched.

My husband is like me and doesn't desire to have kids nor parent - but he enjoys giving time to a program that gets city kids into BMX riding for a positive influence.

[Tamfana]

Another possibility is scouting.  Brownie troops and cub scout troops (are they called troops?) are so much fun.  

[Woggle]

Honestly I am perfectly fine with not having kids or fostering or any of that. I love her niece like she was my own blood but I admit I enjoy her visits more since she is an adult now and we don't have to look after her. I do love my wife dealy though so I will do whatever to make her happy but I am hoping that this will pass or she is just getting nostalgic because her niece is now all grown up.