Els Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 22 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: I don't want to continue off topic, but I disagree. Luck of the draw has always been a huge factor. Sure, luck has always been a factor, but if it had been the biggest factor, no "evolution" would have happened because any genetic fluctuations would be completely random. That's why statistical significance exists as a hypothesis testing mechanism - if any relationship between two factors can be explained primarily by random chance, then it is meaningless. I agree that we should probably create a new thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, preraph said: Most of my reason just had to do with that I knew I didn't want to live my mother's lifestyle. She was just home all the time and she wasn't overwhelmed with work, but it was just day in and day out the same thing, and I knew I didn't want that. She was a very good mother and provider in most ways, but I never felt like she had great joy from it. I just wanted more, and I was lucky that I got to have a dream and follow it for a while. FWIW, I feel the same way, so you're definitely not alone. There is nothing in particular stopping me from having them, it's just that I don't feel a need. I have everything I have ever wanted in life and more - a fulfilling job that I love, a spouse who loves me and I him, time for my hobbies and friends, and time to myself. In all honesty, when I was a teen I never believed life could ever have been this good or this fulfilling. Literally the only thing I dislike is the judgement and pressure from society. And it is UNRELENTING. For some reason, this is one of the few things that is socially acceptable for people to claim that they know better than someone else about what they want - can you imagine the responses I'd get if I went around telling everyone that their job is s*** and my job is the Really Fulfilling One (TM) and everyone should want my job instead, even if they don't? And if they disagree, that's just because they've never done my job so how could they possibly know how fulfilling it is until they've tried? Edited February 7, 2020 by Elswyth 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites
rainfall Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 On 2/5/2020 at 11:15 PM, DKT3 said: @Ellener We have one purpose. If one believes in creation Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” If one believes in evolution then the basis of evolution is reproduction without reproducing there can be no evolution. Just because someone has the ability to forgo thier purpose doesn't change that purpose. Just because that purpose is foregone doesn't mean it's not the purpose. Yeah.... sorry but my purpose in life is not to pop out a bunch of kids I don’t want and will resent. I’m very happy in my career and life with my friends. My husband and I are having issues right now but that has nothing to do with kids. In fact if we had kids our issues would be 100 times worse. I am very happy with the freedom a child free life has given me and the day I had my tubal was the best day ever. I always used birth control, but I was still terrified it would fail. I’m not maternal to humans in anyway. Now give me a room full of puppies and I’ll take care of them all day. A room full of screaming babies and I’ll want to scream and cry. btw not everyone believes in your religion so just because you think that’s the only reason we are here doesn’t mean it is true. 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 You know, I never got much derision in real life with my friends and family on this. I mean, they KNOW me. It's not that I have no maternal instinct. I've always loved animals and had them and they're where my love goes in the long term. I ran that childfree board for a long time and I know people get all kinds of crappy comments from people, but I think because I didn't look like a pushover, no strangers ever tried it with me in person. I mean, I had a couple over the years, people I didn't really know, and honestly, I didn't take offense but just told the truth, something like, "Oh, yeah, that's JUST what I need," or "I'm having way too much fun to do THAT," or "I'm doing exactly what I want to be doing and wouldn't trade my life for anyone's" and "That was just never on my top 10 list of things I wanted to do." If you have enough conviction, I've found people back off pretty quick. If they don't, there's always "Misery loves company." Which is true. The general concensus at the childfree forum was that the trolls who came on there were boiling mad because everyone there not choosing their lifestyle meant no validation for them. They are the ones who aren't happy with their choices. A parent who is really happy and doing exactly what they want to do and feel meant to do, they don't give a flip if another person chooses a different lifestyle, anymore than I care if they didn't choose my lifestyle. I want people who want kids to have them. I would rather people who don't have any idea what they're getting into to take parenting classes or spend a few days with someone else's kids, but that's not how it works. Sadly for the kids. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BettyDraper Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Elswyth said: Pretty much, except it's not just men, sadly. In this thread it seems to be mostly men, but IRL I've seen a lot of women behave this way towards other women who make different decisions from them, too. IMHO, "natural" evolution in the biological sense has pretty much halted now in the advent of modern medicine - the "survival of the fittest" simply does not happen because we intervene. Obviously, this is the right thing to do and we should never go back to our "natural" roots of simply letting the weakest die, but it does mean that we need to evolve different strategies of improving ourselves. Technology, biotechnology, information, culture. My guess is that if humanity does survive another 100 years, the people of that time would view our current reproductive methods as "crude" or "barbaric", much the same as the way we view the barber-"surgeons" or leeches of 300 years ago. Fun stuff, right? You're right that it isn't just men. I was just referencing the type of men you're describing who have posted in this thread. Unhappy moms are either very jealous of childfree women or they feebly hide their insecurities by looking down on us. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) On 2/8/2020 at 7:43 AM, preraph said: I ran that childfree board for a long time and I know people get all kinds of crappy comments from people, but I think because I didn't look like a pushover, no strangers ever tried it with me in person.e kids. It's mostly fellow Asians that bug me, especially relatives. It's like as soon as I got married, everyone (except my husband!) seemed to think they owned my uterus. Edited February 9, 2020 by Elswyth 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 ^ I just find that scary! Makes me appreciate my aunts and parents and sister. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, preraph said: ^ I just find that scary! Makes me appreciate my aunts and parents and sister. Haha, you should! Literally half of our extended family, in the reception that we held for them a couple of months after our wedding, asked me if I was expecting yet... /facepalm 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SummerDreams Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 There is a saying that goes like this (and I translate): "There is this rule in our society that says that if you don't have a boyfriend you need to find one, if you are single you need to get married, if you don't have kids you need to have one, if you have one kid you need to have some more and in general if you have no trouble in life you need to get some." Also: "Society wants you married with two kids, it doesn't matter that you feel better being single, you ought to stop feeling good." Life has taught me that people will always talk because people feel safer when others do what they do. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Just now, SummerDreams said: There is a saying that goes like this (and I translate): "There is this rule in our society that says that if you don't have a boyfriend you need to find one, if you are single you need to get married, if you don't have kids you need to have one, if you have one kid you need to have some more and in general if you have no trouble in life you need to get some." LOL which culture is that? I feel like I relate, except in mine, when you have two kids, they start asking about the kids' grades, and then which university the kid is going to... 😂 Link to post Share on other sites
SummerDreams Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Elswyth said: Haha, you should! Literally half of our extended family, in the reception that we held for them a couple of months after our wedding, asked me if I was expecting yet... /facepalm I wish I had the courage to reply what I really want to reply which is: I find it irresponsible to bring another kid in this monsterous world. Oh God, I so wish I would be able to say this to relatives! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SummerDreams Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Just now, Elswyth said: LOL which culture is that? I feel like I relate, except in mine, when you have two kids, they start asking about the kids' grades, and then which university the kid is going to... 😂 It's said like some kind of a joke, it's greek. 😛 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Just now, SummerDreams said: I wish I had the courage to reply what I really want to reply which is: I find it irresponsible to bring another kid in this monsterous world. Oh God, I so wish I would be able to say this to relatives! I wish I could, but honestly I just don't have the time or energy to deal with the drama. Especially when there are SO MANY of them... the grandparents definitely took the whole "you must overpopulate the world to death" mandate seriously! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SummerDreams Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Just now, Elswyth said: I wish I could, but honestly I just don't have the time or energy to deal with the drama. Especially when there are SO MANY of them... the grandparents definitely took the whole "you must overpopulate the world to death" mandate seriously! My grandmother who is a really open minded woman has agreed with me when I told her I don't want kids and she told me "do what makes you happy dear". (also I avoid relative gatherings as much as I can) 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, Elswyth said: Haha, you should! Literally half of our extended family, in the reception that we held for them a couple of months after our wedding, asked me if I was expecting yet... /facepalm I'm thinking it may have something to do with my mom's siblings, there were 13 all together, so babies weren't exactly exciting news but an added chore, most likely, living out in the country with no electricity, no plumbing, and wringing chickens' necks. They probably all had their fill of babysitting. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, preraph said: I'm thinking it may have something to do with my mom's siblings, there were 13 all together, so babies weren't exactly exciting news but an added chore, most likely, living out in the country with no electricity, no plumbing, and wringing chickens' necks. They probably all had their fill of babysitting. H has like 20 biological aunts and uncles, not including in-laws (so his parents' siblings combined)...🤐 Yeah, his extended family is definitely NOT why I married him, lol!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, SummerDreams said: My grandmother who is a really open minded woman has agreed with me when I told her I don't want kids and she told me "do what makes you happy dear". (also I avoid relative gatherings as much as I can) Your grandmother is awesome! Mine is pretty cool, too, definitely one of the relatives I miss. Fortunately we don't attend gatherings that often since we live far away, but the few that we do are incredibly annoying. One of the things that made up my mind about kids was the gatherings I did attend, as a child and teenager, when I lived in my home country. There wasn't much legally-required leave there, so most people had about 5-10 days a year, and the relative gatherings took up most of them. While I hated the gatherings, I pitied the female relatives more than I pitied myself - this was one of their few days off work, when they should be enjoying themselves or doing something for themselves, but instead they were cooking for the men and pandering to in-laws, and juggling babies and kids while they were doing that. (To be fair, the men were mostly worked to death the rest of the time too, but at least they could watch TV while the women handled the kids and cooking.) I promptly decided I would do EVERYTHING in my power to avoid that sort of fate. Fortunately I think I've done rather well for myself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts