Electronic communication with co-parent

[NYDame]

Hello all!

 

So I’m here to get something off my chest and hopefully get some good feedback. I’m pretty frustrated with my current co-parenting situation with the father of my kids. For reasons regarding my health and safety I made the decision to renew an O.P (order of protection) against my ex. The judge agreed that due to domestic violence I could be in danger. I requested communication through email and text regarding the kids only because, in the past, my ex has cursed me out in front of our kids while on the phone. He gets verbally abusive and loud so I need everything to be documented. I’ve also developed anxiety around phone calls and texts. 
 

Anyway, I explained to him that I’ll no longer accept phone calls and that I’ll report every violation so he’s aware because I’ve, mistakenly, been letting him off the hook with our prior O.P and I’ll no longer stand for his BS. His argument is that we can’t  co-parent this way. Emailing and texting regarding important issues with the kids is not adequate for him. I see absolutely no issues with this arrangement, on the contrary. There are seldom huge issues and decisions we have to make with the kids and writing an email about those few instances is perfectly effective. 
 

Does anyone have experience co-parenting this way? Any tips, comments or feedback?

Edited January 10, 2020 by NYDame
Misspelling

[basil67]

I think he's right that ease of communication is important.   However he threw away that option with his bad behaviour and you all have to live with the consequence.   The fact that he can't see that this is on him is part of the problem.

Edited January 10, 2020 by basil67

[jeff0011]

Email and text is definitely fine.  That’s what my ex and I do. Sometimes we talk.  It just goes through phases.  

i notice she would call when she wouldn’t want something documented .  In other words to yell at me , or tell me that she didn’t do something correctly.   

I have definitely yelled at her in the past too. If we got along perfectly we would still be married  

Is your life really in danger?  It is sort of a power play “I have the law involved to control you now”

So that might be why he still wants to call.

 

 

[NYDame]

2 hours ago, jeff0011 said:

I have definitely yelled at her in the past too. If we got along perfectly we would still be married  

Is your life really in danger?  It is sort of a power play “I have the law involved to control you now”

So that might be why he still wants to call.

Jeff, 

Not getting perfectly along is not one of the reasons that I had to divorce my husband. The OP was granted because he has been abusive towards me. 
 

I’ve been conflicted with the same question you asked regarding if I’m truly in danger or not. My ex changed so dramatically in front of my eyes out of no where that it truly scares me. He has struck my face, my neck, pushed and shoved me around. He’s mentally abused me. There was a time he said he’d kill himself if I didn’t have sex with him. He later excused himself that he wasn’t threatening suicide but that he was just trying to get me to grasp how badly he needed it. Another time we were in bed and I was clearly upset with him and he thought it would be a good time to have sex and it wasn’t for me. I pushed his hands off me and he then proceeded to hold me down and put his whole weight on me. He’s like 300 lbs. He didn’t rape me. Just held me down for a full minute while I begged him to get off because my lungs were constricted. Our newborn son was in the room in his crib and started fussing and whining and my ex still would not let me go for the longest time. I was scared for my life. I stayed after that and endured more abuse until I finally got out. 
 

He has never bruised me or made me bleed. I’ve never had marks. The abuse was minimal and I think that with proper mental and spiritual counseling we would’ve made it. I don’t think he’s extremely dangerous. But I can’t let my guard down given his recent behaviors. He has no regard for the violence he portrays in front of our children on top of it all. He curses me out in front of them, he’s started physical altercations with my brothers in front of them, and I just had to get the law involved. So no this isn’t a strategic move on my part Jeff. 

Quote

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by NYDame

[jeff0011]

Well I don’t understand the point of the protection order in this case. 
 

if he really wanted to harm or kill you, the piece of paper does little.  In some cases with stalkers, death threats, etc an order of protection would be helpful in getting the person thrown in jail for ANY CONTACT.  

in this case you have kids together.  Why is he not blocked on your phone if you have an order of protection?  I am guessing the order of protection is because you are very scared?  

I don’t think it should be used because you have anxiety and can pick and choose when he calls. When you no longer want him to call.  If you sometimes call him. That seems to be a hit about power and control. 
 

So if you are very scared, and need the order of protection, call police when he calls and have him thrown in jail  

 

 

 

[Artdeco]

I think based on your guys' history, he has no right to dictate anything, including the way of communication.

If you're OK with just texting and e-mailing, and NOT OK with phone calls, then he has to respect that and NOT call. IF he calls, don't answer. If he needs to inform you of something important regarding the kids and you don't answer a call, he'll eventually resort to e-mailing, hopefully.

I mean, even the judge is on your side with regards to an order of protection, so that should tell him enough. Don't let him bully you into something that you don't feel comfortable with, in this case talking on the phone. Just stick to your guns. You don't have to be rude about it, just don't respond to ways of communication that you don't want to respond to. Respond to those you're comfortable with. Tell him once, so that he clearly understands, and follow through - be consistent.

 

[NYDame]

1 hour ago, jeff0011 said:

Well I don’t understand the point of the protection order in this case. 
 

if he really wanted to harm or kill you, the piece of paper does little.  In some cases with stalkers, death threats, etc an order of protection would be helpful in getting the person thrown in jail for ANY CONTACT.  

in this case you have kids together.  Why is he not blocked on your phone if you have an order of protection?  I am guessing the order of protection is because you are very scared?  

I don’t think it should be used because you have anxiety and can pick and choose when he calls. When you no longer want him to call.  If you sometimes call him. That seems to be a hit about power and control. 
 

So if you are very scared, and need the order of protection, call police when he calls and have him thrown in jail  

 

 

 

I’m thinking about what you said and I applied for the OP because I do need the law to control his actions because he wasn’t listening to me on my own. He stalked us and showed up at my house and other places unannounced. I feel very scared. Recently, he falsely reported someone in my home was suicidal and cops showed up at my door at 2 am. It’s a mess. I don’t block his phone because we have 3 little ones and he at least appears to want to be in their lives so I allow texts. 
 

Thanks for the feedback. 

[jeff0011]

Just don’t answer the phone when he calls and remind him of the order of protection. And don’t call him. 

[Mr. Lucky]

On 1/9/2020 at 5:43 PM, NYDame said:

His argument is that we can’t  co-parent this way. Emailing and texting regarding important issues with the kids is not adequate for him.

Look at his statement - not adequate for “him”.  No mention of how it might work for his kids, because his priority is continued access to you. 

Stand your ground...

Mr. Lucky 
 

[Blind-Sided]

Yes... if he is ACTUALLY this way... just stand your ground, and do electronic communication only.  Now... it's not that I don't believe you, but the reason I put "actually" in caps is because I was accused of being abusive, when in reality, I never laid a finger on the ex... and the kids only ever got a swat to the butt with either my hand or a wooden spoon. But my ex took it to a point where she went to an abuse center, and tried to get a protection order on me. (without proof)  So forgive me, as I'm a little bitter on that subject.

Now, since he is having an opinion, and it sounds like you don't want to see him at all... you may want to take it even one step higher. After my ex took me and my daughter to court, being accused of contempt to the custody agreement (I was found not to be) but the court had us sign up for a system called "Our Family Wizard."  It's basically a mix of email and txt, and the judge and/or lawyers can be attached to the account. When a message is sent, the other person will know as soon as it goes through. (like a txt)  But, nothing can be erased, and all communication is able to be seen by all involved. And depending on the state, it's automatically admissible in court.   The system also allows you to post events to a calendar, and show expenses. (if that is needed for proof of reimbursement)   

 

It's not a free system, but it stops the BS.  I was actually opposed to it at first... but it's a good thing. Look into it, and have your judge/lawyer demand it of him.

Good luck

[DKT3]

Drastic changes usually happen when infidelities ruin relationships.  With time they usually subside. 

When we divorced I would only communicate via electronics,  it is clumsy and awkward in many ways and fine details can be missed.  Overall,  it works.

[jeff0011]

4 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

Yes... if he is ACTUALLY this way... just stand your ground, and do electronic communication only.  Now... it's not that I don't believe you, but the reason I put "actually" in caps is because I was accused of being abusive, when in reality, I never laid a finger on the ex... and the kids only ever got a swat to the butt with either my hand or a wooden spoon. But my ex took it to a point where she went to an abuse center, and tried to get a protection order on me. (without proof)  So forgive me, as I'm a little bitter on that subject.

 

Yes exactly.  My apologies to the OP if she is in danger.  
 

Sadly the “orders of protection” are used very often in any divorce case when children are involved.  They are extremely easy to obtain, and no proof is needed.
 

  My exes attorney showed her some “abuse” pamphlet which said things like “if you husband doesn’t like your friends, you are being abused”  “if your husband raised his voice , you are being abused” “if your husband makes and controls most of the money, you are being abused”

So her attorney told her to also get an “Order of protection” .  Luckily for me she did not pursue that.   

How does your ex see the children? Supervised visitation? Where are drop offs? At the police station?   I am assuming if you have the order of protection you are very careful to never be alone around him  

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by jeff0011

[NYDame]

5 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

Yes... if he is ACTUALLY this way... just stand your ground, and do electronic communication only.  Now... it's not that I don't believe you, but the reason I put "actually" in caps is because I was accused of being abusive, when in reality, I never laid a finger on the ex... and the kids only ever got a swat to the butt with either my hand or a wooden spoon. But my ex took it to a point where she went to an abuse center, and tried to get a protection order on me. (without proof)  So forgive me, as I'm a little bitter on that subject.

I’m sorry you had to go through that. Maybe she was getting misguided advice because that would be strange for her to go and claim you were abusive if you weren’t. Now, I was in denial for a long time regarding whether or not I was being abused. I didn’t want to believe he could suddenly change like that. Suddenly, he was calling me a whore, pushing/shoving, slapping my face, striking  my neck with his arm and then saying things like I lured him into it. I know there are some situations where people lose control because the other partner is pushing and acting a fool themselves. But this wasn’t us. These things would happen to me if I refused sex or if I simply wanted to go grocery shopping without the kids to get some air. I recognize now that I was being abused. He doesn’t even realize it himself. His go to is that there are some women out there who really get messed up by men and get put in the hospital. My gut feeling, however, is that if I would’ve allowed it to continue it would’ve ended up with me in the hospital. 
 

Thank you for suggesting that. I’ll see how things go if he fights back on it and decide if I’ll go that route. 

[NYDame]

22 minutes ago, jeff0011 said:How does your ex see the children? Supervised visitation? Where are drop offs? At the police station? 

Jeff, right now my ex sees the kids on Saturdays only. Sometimes it’s 1 hour. Sometimes it’s up to 5 hours which is nice because I can get things done in peace. We used to hand them off in a public place like a McDonalds but I had to end that because my ex would get hostile at times. By hostile I mean he would bang at my car windows, curse at me, threw a can at my car, started altercations with my brothers when they’ve accompanied me. I then suggested I drop the kids off at his aunts house and then he could pick them up later but this wouldn’t work as he met me there most of the time. So just this past week I emailed him and said that I will only arrange pick up and drop off with his dad (who he lives with) or when that’s not an option I told him I’d meet him at the police parking lot. 

[jeff0011]

Maybe I am being too logical.  
 

A  you have an order of protection against him out of fear of your health and safety   (This is a serious matter for him and most likely will negatively affect his job prospects etc)

B  you are saying he is not even allowed to call you, because of the fear.

c  but then you drive the kids to his dads house house alone(essentially his house for now)  His aunts house.  And meet him alone at  McDonald’s   (Not afraid to do that)

If you are driving to his property, and not afraid to do that, then what is the order of protection for?  That piece of paper won’t save you if he decides to harm/kill you there.  
 

I guess that’s what I meant about control. “You can’t cal me or come to my house. But I can go to yours as I am not that afraid”  

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by jeff0011

[NYDame]

9 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

Yes... if he is ACTUALLY this way... just stand your ground, and do electronic communication only.  Now... it's not that I don't believe you, but the reason I put "actually" in caps is because I was accused of being abusive, when in reality, I never laid a finger on the ex... and the kids only ever got a swat to the butt with either my hand or a wooden spoon. But my ex took it to a point where she went to an abuse center, and tried to get a protection order on me. (without proof)  So forgive me, as I'm a little bitter on that subject.

Now, since he is having an opinion, and it sounds like you don't want to see him at all... you may want to take it even one step higher. After my ex took me and my daughter to court, being accused of contempt to the custody agreement (I was found not to be) but the court had us sign up for a system called "Our Family Wizard."  It's basically a mix of email and txt, and the judge and/or lawyers can be attached to the account. When a message is sent, the other person will know as soon as it goes through. (like a txt)  But, nothing can be erased, and all communication is able to be seen by all involved. And depending on the state, it's automatically admissible in court.   The system also allows you to post events to a calendar, and show expenses. (if that is needed for proof of reimbursement)   

 

It's not a free system, but it stops the BS.  I was actually opposed to it at first... but it's a good thing. Look into it, and have your judge/lawyer demand it of him.

Good luck

 

4 hours ago, jeff0011 said:

Yes exactly.  My apologies to the OP if she is in danger.  
 

Sadly the “orders of protection” are used very often in any divorce case when children are involved.  They are extremely easy to obtain, and no proof is needed.
 

  My exes attorney showed her some “abuse” pamphlet which said things like “if you husband doesn’t like your friends, you are being abused”  “if your husband raised his voice , you are being abused” “if your husband makes and controls most of the money, you are being abused”

So her attorney told her to also get an “Order of protection” .  Luckily for me she did not pursue that.   

How does your ex see the children? Supervised visitation? Where are drop offs? At the police station? 

 

Jeff. I never said I go to his house. His father picks them up from me. I admit to not managing the order of protection correctly in the past which is why I’ve had to deal with him displaying violence in front of the kids. An order of protection, like you said, is a piece of paper. I understand it’s not going to save me if he wanted to hurt me. However, he has been abusive and has stalked me and has harassed me, therefore I feel justified in asking for it so that our kids don’t have to hear him cursing me out in the phone or witness him getting in fights with my brothers and I and all the other BS he does. 

[Blind-Sided]

12 hours ago, jeff0011 said:

...........

  My exes attorney showed her some “abuse” pamphlet which said things like “if you husband doesn’t like your friends, you are being abused”  “if your husband raised his voice , you are being abused” “if your husband makes and controls most of the money, you are being abused”

...........

 

I know... it's a total load of crap. People get angry, and yell.  Even my mom yells, and smacks me... and I'm 47. LOL.  NONE of that is really abuse, but the "Ambulance Chaser" kind of lawyers just wants to make people feel empowered so they make a paycheck.  I still don't honestly know why I'm divorced at this point, and I'm sure the truth will come out... but I'm guessing part of it is the pseudo-brain washing that the ex's friends, and abuse center put into her.  I'm also guessing if she went to a more companionate friend... I would still be married.  

Sorry... didn't mean to take that off track.

Anyway... if he is truly that way... and you need that order... then you need to also follow that order.  As soon as you break it... then it truly is invalid. Also, since his family is transferring the kids... then electronic communication, with court oversight is the best option.

good luck with your path.

[vla1120]

@jeff0011 and @Blind-Sided, I understand your points. I have seen women abuse the protection from abuse (PFA) order, using it as a tool to punish their husbands during custody battles. I did want to offer another perspective, however.

I am still married to my second husband, though we do not live together, because he needs my health insurance. In addition, he is terminally ill with stage IV cancer and I am his caretaker. He literally has no one else. We've been married since October 2014. I left him for good in June 2018. Our two marriage counselors that we were seeing (I already had one marriage counselor, then specifically selected a male therapist, thinking he would be more receptive) both indicated a concern for my physical safety because of comments he had made in the past. I refused to get a PFA because I did not feel threatened (especially now, since he is 6ft tall and weighs 110lbs. I think I could take him pretty easily?) HOWEVER, shortly before I finally moved out for good, he threatened to buy a gun and shoot me when I came home from work, if I did not announce myself as soon as I came in the door (of my own home.) 

I still did not take out a PFA, but that put enough of a scare into me that perhaps his mental state is not as stable as I would like to think. I did file a police report (because I wanted him flagged in case he decided to go buy a gun.) Both therapists told me repeatedly that, being terminal, he has "nothing to lose", and they were worried about my safety because of that.

So, though there was really no physical abuse, there was enough of a perceived threat that both mental health and police authorities thought I should take out a PFA.

[jeff0011]

17 hours ago, vla1120 said:

@jeff0011 and @Blind-Sided, I understand your points. I have seen women abuse the protection from abuse (PFA) order, using it as a tool to punish their husbands during custody battles. I did want to offer another perspective, however.

I am still married to my second husband, though we do not live together, because he needs my health insurance. In addition, he is terminally ill with stage IV cancer and I am his caretaker. He literally has no one else. We've been married since October 2014. I left him for good in June 2018. Our two marriage counselors that we were seeing (I already had one marriage counselor, then specifically selected a male therapist, thinking he would be more receptive) both indicated a concern for my physical safety because of comments he had made in the past. I refused to get a PFA because I did not feel threatened (especially now, since he is 6ft tall and weighs 110lbs. I think I could take him pretty easily?) HOWEVER, shortly before I finally moved out for good, he threatened to buy a gun and shoot me when I came home from work, if I did not announce myself as soon as I came in the door (of my own home.) 

I still did not take out a PFA, but that put enough of a scare into me that perhaps his mental state is not as stable as I would like to think. I did file a police report (because I wanted him flagged in case he decided to go buy a gun.) Both therapists told me repeatedly that, being terminal, he has "nothing to lose", and they were worried about my safety because of that.

So, though there was really no physical abuse, there was enough of a perceived threat that both mental health and police authorities thought I should take out a PFA.

Yes.. But even if you did get an order of protection, what is to stop him from shooting you. It just seems ike a false sense of security. It's a piece of paper. The police will not have men posted at your door.  But I am confused. You currently ARE his care taker? 

I think in most cases the authorities will always say"take out an order of protection" to be on the side of caution. 

In the above case, in the case of the main thread, I am not sure if cheating was involved. But often times a woman also likes to move on with someone else, then claims the man is abusive for being angry. In a way it is like "Ok, I don't want to hear your complaining and you aren't allowed to talk to me now about destroying the family and your life. But lets raise these 4 kids. As long as you behave I will talk to you. if not I will have you put in jail."  .

[vla1120]

On 1/28/2020 at 8:53 AM, jeff0011 said:

Yes.. But even if you did get an order of protection, what is to stop him from shooting you. It just seems ike a false sense of security. It's a piece of paper. The police will not have men posted at your door.  But I am confused. You currently ARE his care taker? 

I think in most cases the authorities will always say"take out an order of protection" to be on the side of caution. 

In the above case, in the case of the main thread, I am not sure if cheating was involved. But often times a woman also likes to move on with someone else, then claims the man is abusive for being angry. In a way it is like "Ok, I don't want to hear your complaining and you aren't allowed to talk to me now about destroying the family and your life. But lets raise these 4 kids. As long as you behave I will talk to you. if not I will have you put in jail."  .

On the two bolded areas above:

Yes. I am currently his only caretaker. He poses no threat to me. He has actually been very gracious and appreciative because he KNOWS I will walk if he is the slightest bit abusive to me. So, if he doesn't want to die alone, it is his best interest to foster an amiable relationship between us. 

I agree. I have seen women who misused the claims of abuse in order to try to keep  their husbands from seeing their children, etc. It happened in my own extended family. It was so frustrating because those kids suffered the most damage. I just saw something the other day that said for successful co-parenting, you need to love your kids more than you hate your ex-spouse. That's the truth!