pepperbird Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 If someone makes a mess, it's their responsibility to clean it up. What that looks like may depend on the situation. In my situation, the ow told me because she was spiteful and bitter. She didn't tell to help, she told to hurt, and the ironic part is her telling caused far more turmoil for her than it ever did for me. She was furious that I wasn't giving her the reaction she wanted. She wasn't trying to clean up the mess she helped to make...she was trying to make it worse. The other ow I know well didn't know the guy she was seeing was married, and she was crushed when she found out. She feels terrible even though it's not her fault. She told his wife because she felt she deserved to know what he was doing behind her back. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I think it's about time the ow/om stops being portrayed as some sort of victim of the big bad predatory mm/mw. I don't think I'm portraying them as total victims. I'm just stating that in the most common case, the OW is not the aggressor, so it's odd to talk about an OW "inserting herself" into the marriage as if that was an active thing that she chose to do. Now, my personal case is kind of different as I definitely did make a choice to get involved! (I also made very sure that his wife knew everything that was going on. No lies here.) So I'm not talking about me and I'm certainly not talking about all OWs. But the original poster did seem to be making sweeping statements about all OW/OMs... and those sweeping statements did not fit the most common situations. Sure, some married people lie and say they are not married, but "separated/staying together for the kids/ I don't want to hurt my spouse/ I can't leave because of finances, whatever" all still mean the same thing. The person is married. Believing them is akin to believing the used car salesperson who tells customers their cars are in great shape, only driven by a little old lady to go to church once a week. It may be dumb, but a lot of people are dumb. It may be akin to believing a used car salesman, but a lot of people buy those cars. Also, it is legal for separated people to date (in most states). There's nothing weird about believing that one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 ...so it's odd to talk about an OW "inserting herself" into the marriage as if that was an active thing that she chose to do. Is it not an active thing? Yes she may have been pursued but surely it is her choice to be caught? She knows full well he is married/attached with a wife/partner (and kids) at home, yet still steams straight ahead, straight into the middle of the marriage/relationship. I guess she sees something she wants and is not too fussed about how she gets it. I do not really buy that OWs are usually the victims of predatory men. Yes, some MM are predators, yes some OWs are at vulnerable stages in their life, but it seems to me, many OWs know exactly what they are about and what they want out of the affair, they are not "victims" by any stretch of the imagination. Many see the MM as perfect husband/partner material and are often then prepared to wait around to get him. Depending on the circumstances, telling the BS about the affair may or may not be seen as advantageous to the cause of the OW... Link to post Share on other sites
PRW Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I have noticed that most people recommend to not tell the BS about the affair and ones involvement in damaging a marriage. What is up with that? If one has already inserted themselves in a mess like that, why not save the BS the lies? How is it that cheaters or OM/OW get to choose whether a clueless spouse lives in a lie or not? They are never clueless unless they cheating is "new" and just started. The one being cheated on almost always knows or at least feels it anyway. It is inevitable that they will eventually catch up on the truth. It is impossible for someone to give 100% of themselves to two or more people at once,...so the spouse is going to notice the deficiency. If someone butts-in they rob that couple of the opportunity of correcting the behavor and repairing the relationship on their own terms, if such is possible. Butting in just makes it explode into drama. Also, I've seen where the one butting in is really hoping the cheater gets the boot so they can have a chance to take their place, so there are selfish motives behind it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LIRR88 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Lots of people disagree on this one but if it was me personally I would want to know. I don’t care who it comes from and what the intentions are. Some people think that if the BS never finds out it’s perfectly fine, how is it ok for that person to be living a lie, especially when they had no say in it?? My mom pulled a similar very dumb logic on me once, she told me all men cheat but as long as he has you living well you should just look the other way. Sorry but it’s 2019 not 1959, there’s no way i’d look past that. You can’t force people to love you or to stay faithful, if my man couldn’t do that i’d pack his stuff and throw his ass out, the AP would be doing me a huge favor! Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 They are never clueless unless they cheating is "new" and just started. The one being cheated on almost always knows or at least feels it anyway. It is inevitable that they will eventually catch up on the truth. It is impossible for someone to give 100% of themselves to two or more people at once,...so the spouse is going to notice the deficiency. If someone butts-in they rob that couple of the opportunity of correcting the behavor and repairing the relationship on their own terms, if such is possible. Butting in just makes it explode into drama. Also, I've seen where the one butting in is really hoping the cheater gets the boot so they can have a chance to take their place, so there are selfish motives behind it. I feel this is giving too much power to the OP. The MP is the one in control whether the affair happens or not. He/she is more of an accomplice vs the perpetrator. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I don't think I'm portraying them as total victims. I'm just stating that in the most common case, the OW is not the aggressor Disagree though there's no one size fits all. To me, a more common scenario is a marriage gets stale, one of the spouses becomes vulnerable and some outside party sees them as a candidate for a relationship that starts off as friends and moves to something else. Doesn't lessen culpability on either side or the WS responsibility to their marriage... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 They are never clueless unless they cheating is "new" and just started. The one being cheated on almost always knows or at least feels it anyway. It is inevitable that they will eventually catch up on the truth. It is impossible for someone to give 100% of themselves to two or more people at once,...so the spouse is going to notice the deficiency. This sounds rather victim-blamey, doesn't it? It's clearly the truth that many betrayed spouses actually don't know, not for years and years. So if they someday find out that they've been cheated on for ten years, now on top of that shock they've got you telling them that they must be idiots for not figuring it out sooner? Giving 100% of yourself to another person is more or less impossible anyway unless neither of you ever has to leave the house or work for a living. Many, many affairs take place around work, which already takes up a lot of a person's time. Most couples aren't breathing down each other's necks 24/7. Also, from reading on divorce forums, it's very very common for people who've just been broken up with to insist, when asked, that their partner could not possibly have been having an affair, there's never been any sign of that, they woudln't even have time for one, it's utterly impossible... only for eventually evidence to turn up that no, it wasn't so impossible after all. Some spouses suspect. Some do not. Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Actually, the only two who bear any responsibility for an affair are the two people who are in it. It doesn't make them terrible people. I disagree... if there were no problems in the marriage to begin with... then why would there be an affair? All bare responsibility. Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 In my situation, the ow told me because she was spiteful and bitter. She didn't tell to help, she told to hurt, and the ironic part is her telling caused far more turmoil for her than it ever did for me. She was furious that I wasn't giving her the reaction she wanted. This explains why I feel like you are always attacking me when I post something... I am sorry this happened to you. Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I disagree... if there were no problems in the marriage to begin with... then why would there be an affair? All bare responsibility. That is completely false. If marriage issues is the cause of affairs, both partners would be cheating. Everyone has issues within their marriage. The problem is with the cheater. Not the marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 That is completely false. If marriage issues is the cause of affairs, both partners would be cheating. Everyone has issues within their marriage. The problem is with the cheater. Not the marriage. Who knows why the affair happened.... How come the cheater is cheating? You will have to ask them. Maybe it was marriage issues... maybe it wasn't. I don't know. Not sure how you jump to both would be cheating... just happened to be my case... but how do I really know... maybe it was just a messed up game they play between themselves to keep their marriage going. I have no idea... just saying... I believe everyone is responsible in some way. Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 The problem is with the cheater. Not the marriage. With respect, this is too simple. There is absolutely a problem within the marriage. It may be that a person has married a fraud or that the course of life has whittled away at a couple's intimacy. Either way, the marriage is weak. The person having an affair with a married person has their own problems which compounds to a weakness of three. Should the affair partner tell the betrayed spouse, in my opinion yes....regardless of motivation. What difference does it make? The marriage is in crisis, if the betrayed spouse did not already know this, they are preoccupied or married to a sociopath. Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Who knows why the affair happened.... How come the cheater is cheating? You will have to ask them. Maybe it was marriage issues... maybe it wasn't. I don't know. Not sure how you jump to both would be cheating... just happened to be my case... but how do I really know... maybe it was just a messed up game they play between themselves to keep their marriage going. I have no idea... just saying... I believe everyone is responsible in some way. I think it is BS that the BS is to blame for any way for the WS having an affair. Period. The end. Bad marriage? Divorce, not an excuse for an affair. Abusive? Divorce, not an excuse for an affair. Affair? Divorce, not an excuse for a revenge affair. If someone is using something lacking/wrong in their marriage as an excuse for an affair it is because they are lacking the correct coping skills. Basically relying on someone else to fix what is broken.... which is SOLELY on the WS. Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 With respect, this is too simple. There is absolutely a problem within the marriage. It may be that a person has married a fraud or that the course of life has whittled away at a couple's intimacy. Either way, the marriage is weak. The person having an affair with a married person has their own problems which compounds to a weakness of three. Should the affair partner tell the betrayed spouse, in my opinion yes....regardless of motivation. What difference does it make? The marriage is in crisis, if the betrayed spouse did not already know this, they are preoccupied or married to a sociopath. The problem is the cheater. All marriages have problems. All of them. Not one perfect marriage. Everyone could stand to be a better spouse to the other. If the marriage is horrible. Divorce. If you have a million reason why you dont want to divorce, then dont engage in activity that would get you divorced. The issue is.... people who cheat cant cope with whatever issue they have. So they rely on someone else to do it for them. (The other person). It is a weakness inside of them. Because for whatever reason, the marriage isnt bad enough to divorce. Again.... the problem is the cheater. Not the marriage. It is a lazy excuse for many other people. "Oh, he is cheating because his wife sucks." But at some point, most OP realize that the WS really sucks, too. And may be the cause of what his wife is sucking. Or maybe he is lying completely about her sucking and the marriage sucking because he just wants variety in his life (this is common among men). Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) I disagree... if there were no problems in the marriage to begin with... then why would there be an affair? All bare responsibility. I'm sorry, but to me, that is the same thing as saying that the BS is somehow responsible for the actions of his or her spouse. I don't feel that's true. It's got nothing to do with being a BS. I have always felt that way. Adults are responsible for their own actions...they are not children. Saying that the BS hold responsibility is like saying to someone " that guy was unhappy in his marriage and he chose to drown his sorrows at the bar. Unfortunately, he also chose to drive, and he plowed into a car full of kids. Who's fault is that? His spouse's? The bartender? His? I can tell you this. If he tried to place any blame on his spouse and he'd be laughed out of the courtroom. The bartender might have some liability, but ultimately, the responsibility rests with the person who made the choice to "self medicate"by drinking. Edited July 17, 2019 by pepperbird 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I think you are just bitter and can't see beyond that. We will just have to agree to disagree. Peace. Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I'm sorry, but to me, that is the same thing as saying that the BS is somehow responsible for the actions of his or her spouse. I don't feel that's true. It's got nothing to do with being a BS. I have always felt that way. Adults are responsible for their own actions...they are not children. Saying that the BS hold responsibility is like saying to someone " that guy was unhappy in his marriage and he chose to drown his sorrows at the bar. Unfortunately, he also chose to drive, and he plowed into a car full of kids. Who's fault is that? His spouse's? The bartender? His? I can tell you this. If he tried to place any blame on his spouse and he'd be laughed out of the courtroom. The bartender might have some liability, but ultimately, the responsibility rests with the person who made the choice to "self medicate"by drinking. Actually in some states the bartender could be charged with a crime for giving the guy too much to drink if he ended up driving his car into a bunch of kids. Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 The only 2 people responsible for the marriage are the 2 people in it... not the women/men, drugs, acholic or any other thing they bring into it. Marriage is suppose to be a partnership so if one fails they both fail. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Plenty people have affairs when their marriage is no worse nor any better than any other. They are on the lookout for extra, extra sex, extra excitement. extra fun, extra attention, extra affection, extra love... Many people are not at heart monogamous, they need and want more than one partner, they seek variety, they may seek kink, they love having two or more people in tow. Many people have work or a lifestyle that presents many opportunities to cheat, they will seek out any willing participant... Many if asked have great marriages, but will cheat at the drop of a hat. Nothing of any of that has anything to do with their loyal, loving and caring spouse, who often hasn't got a clue, as far as he/she is concerned his/her marriage is fine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 The only 2 people responsible for the marriage are the 2 people in it... not the women/men, drugs, acholic or any other thing they bring into it. Marriage is suppose to be a partnership so if one fails they both fail. Likewise, the only two people responsible for an affair are the people who are in it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I think you are just bitter and can't see beyond that. We will just have to agree to disagree. Peace. Seems quite the other way. Peace. Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Plenty people have affairs when their marriage is no worse nor any better than any other. They are on the lookout for extra, extra sex, extra excitement. extra fun, extra attention, extra affection, extra love... Many people are not at heart monogamous, they need and want more than one partner, they seek variety, they may seek kink, they love having two or more people in tow. Many people have work or a lifestyle that presents many opportunities to cheat, they will seek out any willing participant... Many if asked have great marriages, but will cheat at the drop of a hat. Nothing of any of that has anything to do with their loyal, loving and caring spouse, who often hasn't got a clue, as far as he/she is concerned his/her marriage is fine. This is especially true with men. And I would say in most cases with men. Women dont understand it because in many cases they are using another man to fill some empty void they have within themselves. They often have exit affairs. So it is hard for a woman to understand that men who are in happy marriages cheat. It is no secret that I was a BS. But we did have a happy marriage. We had a blast together. Traveled tons. Enjoyed the same hobbies. Went to concerts. 20 years and chemistry still off the charts. When he was home... sex was plentiful and not boring. He just traveled. So while I was at home taking care of our 4 children.... he found women in bars and brought them to his hotel. Because he could. He will tell everyone, we had a happy marriage. He was happy. Nothing was wrong with it. None of that mattered. And it didnt matter to me when I found out because I divorced his slimy butt. Because I am an awesome person and i dont need a man to make me happy or fulfill me and i sure as hell was not going to allow him to disrespect me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Seems quite the other way. Peace. Your right I feel bitter... thanks to this board. It has not made me feel any better at all... worst in fact. I feel hated here just because I am an OW and for no other reason than that. I feel attacked at every posting related to my situation.... starting with the 1st post. Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Plenty people have affairs when their marriage is no worse nor any better than any other. They are on the lookout for extra, extra sex, extra excitement. extra fun, extra attention, extra affection, extra love... Many people are not at heart monogamous, they need and want more than one partner, they seek variety, they may seek kink, they love having two or more people in tow. Many people have work or a lifestyle that presents many opportunities to cheat, they will seek out any willing participant... Many if asked have great marriages, but will cheat at the drop of a hat. Nothing of any of that has anything to do with their loyal, loving and caring spouse, who often hasn't got a clue, as far as he/she is concerned his/her marriage is fine. Many people get divorced Many people leave their spouse and live with someone else None of that has to do with their loyal, loving and caring spouse, who often hasn't got a clue.... Link to post Share on other sites
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