Was I inept with this.

[ZA Dater]

If ur using OLD, ur face is on the internet.

 

But this will give u a better idea of who is ur equal. Of course unattractive people will be attracted to u, but u will more likely be attracted to somone on ur level physically then those below u. Unless ur actively wanting to date up. Then it will be an uphill battle cuz those women would want to date on their level or up.

 

Yuck I hate using these terms....

 

Well I can tell you what finds me attractive on Tinder but I suspect I'd offend the forum so I wont, I'll leave that one for you to deduce.

 

I have sat down with very attractive people and very unattractive people but I always divorce myself from thinking I can date you because the reality is I cant, its works on value and women seem to determine value differently to me, though both in my view are equally superficial but in different ways.

 

The fastest way to face dating disappointment is to hope for something, expect nothing and you wont be disappointed. How do you change the odds and is it even possible?

 

What is amazing about this lady is we went from "Ill teach you about dating" to 'not interested in seeing you". Ok, I told her I'd happily compete with whoever she was chatting with online, she told me she had met someone "I don't think of you that way", very clearly an attraction issue.

 

I'll have to think of some other approach.

[vla1120]

I tend to get completely unpacked in the space of one date, to the extent there is nothing to really talk about after that. My life is work, I made it so because I could then pretend I didn't want to date. What do women find interesting?

 

I'm much older than you and probably could not handle the dating scene today (too complicated), but in my day, we didn't go into a date with so many expectations. We would just have dinner, comment on the food, and maybe talk about the weather or some other equally non-intimidating topic. We might say where we worked, or what our job was - but no in depth explanations. If the conversation dropped off, I would ask where they've traveled to in the world and/or where is some place they want to travel. Just relax and go with the flow.

 

 

I am probably all of those, ugly, boring, unconventional and have a personality most wont like. So what of it? The flip side is I am generous, loyal and caring but those things don't matter. Apparently.

 

What would you do if you were me?

 

Like I said above, just go with the flow. Don't go into dates with any expectations at all. Don't try so hard to sell yourself - definitely do not talk about your job too much - maybe mention what you do and that's it. If anything, show more interest in what SHE does, not just in her job, but for hobbies, etc.

 

For some reason, I get the feeling that you might come across as a bit arrogant. If you are generous, loyal, and caring, then show THAT on a date. Show your interest in her by getting to know her without digging too deep or making her feel uncomfortable. Keep it simple. Keep it light.

[Normm]

Cool I'd try it but for the fact I don't feel like having my selfie on the internet.

 

Yet again a helpful, well meaning poster offers a great idea that might help ZA solve his perpetual dating failures. ZA acknowledges that's a cool idea and immediately dismisses it for consideration for no better reason than because "he doesn't feel like it".

 

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

[LivingWaterPlease]

 

I am not a warm person that's another fact, I can be but I choose not to, why because if I remove the emotion from the situation I don't care if I get rejected.

 

Right there is your issue. Most women are interested in finding warmth and acceptance.

 

You're withholding the quality your date is desiring due to your fear of rejection.

 

You need to learn to accept yourself and like yourself, find value in yourself even if your date doesn't. Then you will be able to offer your date a warm positive experience knowing it could be rejected and yet you'll be fine.

 

Learning to give without expecting anything in return is known as being selfless. The opposite is selfishness.

 

Practice giving to others emotionally (not ones you're dating, just folks you meet randomly or those who are friends and acquaintances) during your day without expecting them to give back. Make this a habit. Your relationship to your dates will change, guaranteed.

 

When you go out on a date, even if she's "not feeling it" and you're not either, begin making a mental note of the things you like about her, of the things you're grateful for in your surroundings. In short, begin focusing on any tiny positive things you can find. Even things as seemingly insignificant as, "I like the floor covering in this restaurant!" "It's a sunny day!" "Her shoes are really cute!" "The salad is so fresh!" Think of these positive things and ENJOY them, savor them yourself no matter if she notices them or not. Just enjoy life for the little things!

 

It seems you feel a need for change. Otherwise why would you have begun this thread?

 

You CAN change.

 

Take the above advice to heart. Begin practicing today looking for the positive in all things and bringing warmth to every social interaction you're a part of, be it with friends or strangers.

 

Hold doors for people. Look them in the eye and smile at them when you do it. Tell a cashier she has beautiful skin. Do it casually, not staring at her awkwardly. Drop a casual compliment to anyone you can (while following workplace guidelines so as not to sexually harass anyone).

 

Watch your life change, ZA dater. If you begin to practice the above it will change your life!

 

I'm editing this to add: As you read the above, given the habits you display in your posts, it's possible that you're thinking of the reasons why you can't, or don't want to practice the above. NIX those thoughts in the bud! Go out and learn to LOVE LIFE!!! Hugs to you, ZAdater!

Edited June 13, 2019 by LivingWaterPlease

[basil67]

Well again its a two way street, why should I accept what I don't like?

 

Yes, well that's hardly a motivation but anyway I admire your candid honesty. The irony about easy conversation about anything is most of them cant do easy conversation about world affairs for examples, or politics or perhaps I should go and read a Jamie Oliver cook book perhaps that's better easy conversation or how about the latest Hello magazine, maybe that's even better.

 

In case its not obvious I am being sarcastic with the book reading ideas...

 

At the end of the day I can look, go about life and look, that pretty much costs me nothing, gets me nothing either though. But seeing as I am so unlikely to meet anyone I actually want......

 

What I'm getting at his your hypocrisy. You have every right to be choosy, but then you complain when the same is done to you. If you were the type to give most women a chance, then you'd have the right to complain.

 

There's more hypocrisy in your description of conversations. You complain that Miss Fluff for Brains can't talk on your level. But apparently you can't talk about anything which isn't printed in broadsheet news. Honestly, a person who can only talk about world affairs and politics would be as tedious a date as someone who can only talk about reality TV. If you are going to complain about their limited conversational abilities, first reflect on your own limited conversational abilities.

[lonelyplanetmoon]

I hope you won’t bite my head off for my input. These are just my personal opinions so take them for what they are worth. I am a woman.

 

From reading the tone of your thread I get the sense that you are very serious and it feels like you take things too seriously. I am at that point in my life where I realize that life is short and you make the best of it by appreciation and appreciation results in happiness. Not taking things too seriously means you are easy going, positive and have more acceptance skills. I find these attitudes are the ones I gravitate to in guys. Seriousness makes me suspicious that they may be judgemental and I am beyond wanting to be judged.

 

Have you ever gone to counseling? Reason I ask is I have seen people set high expectations for what they find attractive so that they never have to actually have success. There is some subconscious fear of actually being vulnerable. Not sure what your childhood was like but just food for thought.

[chillii]

Yeah l get the same impression.

Thing is, any of all that sorta of thing women will sense it in one second flat za and it'll be dead in the water before she even sits down.

There's female posters here too that have the same sorta problem and for the same sorta reasons, but it goes both ways and it's pretty obvious the lack of warmth and openness is shutting guys down in minutes.

l get it's hard not to be cynical and feeling negative and so guards are up, trouble is, anyone you meet is an individual, a whole new clean slate, so ya just can't walk in carrying that crap with ya she'll feel it immediately and it's gone.

[lonelyplanetmoon]

Yes those were the words I was searching for. Warmth and openness that is what keeps me interested in a man. Looks are further down my list.

[NuevoYorko]

See this has zero appeal to me at all. Absolutely none. I am not allowed the same courtesy so why should I extend this? Honest question.

 

Honest answer:

 

Because you're the one CONSTANTLY on here moaning about your rejections and failures. Nobody is asking you to "extend the courtesy" because they actually don't give a crap. They aren't interested in you. If you did, though, maybe your outlook would improve.

 

One other thing:

 

Nobody is rejecting you because you are "inexperienced." If they were interested in you, that would not matter. The amount of experience a man has is of little account to women. Women want to be with men who make them feel good, are interesting, intriguing, good company, etc.

 

Keep doing the same things, keep getting the same results, keep posting the same threads.

Edited June 14, 2019 by NuevoYorko

[alphamale]

Women want to be with men who make them feel good, are interesting, intriguing, good company, etc.

....

 

totally true NY

[Blanco]

Well I can tell you what finds me attractive on Tinder but I suspect I'd offend the forum so I wont, I'll leave that one for you to deduce.

 

Then this means either you don't photograph well or you aren't as good looking as you think you are. Pair that with an inability to loosen up on dates and be compelling company and here we are.

[ZA Dater]

Not taking things too seriously means you are easy going, positive and have more acceptance skills. I find these attitudes are the ones I gravitate to in guys. Seriousness makes me suspicious that they may be judgemental and I am beyond wanting to be judged.

 

I am serious, that is just me, always has been since I was a kid. Cant say I disagree with you and to be honest I have a certain degree of what shall I call it, dislike towards the happy go lucky sort of guy, I don't mix well with them at all socially. So it does not surprise me ladies gravitate towards them, they have many great attributes.

 

Joking, funny and casual aren't my attributes at all, never have been. Mine are determination and the want to try and do the impossible, challenge myself and others to do what we think we cannot do. Unfortunately that is an incredibly bad attribute for dating, simply because and this isn't directed at people on this forum, I sit down at dates and what do I mostly find: people unmotivated, socially great, they will go out and have lots of friends, go on weekends away but few actually are looking for anything better, mostly oblivious to the world around them. Do I sometimes wish I had friends to go on weekends away with, sure I do. Do I sometimes wish I could ignore the great world around me, sure I do.

 

Either way I have to try and work with what I have, even if I know its not going to get me results, it has got me results that were good in terms of the odd decent friend zone date but perhaps I simply need to recognise my own dating limitations and accept them, as difficult as that will be to do.

 

Or I need to be good enough at something else to make the negatives irrelevant.

Edited June 14, 2019 by ZA Dater

[ChatroomHero]

I am serious, that is just me, always has been since I was a kid. Cant say I disagree with you and to be honest I have a certain degree of what shall I call it, dislike towards the happy go lucky sort of guy, I don't mix well with them at all socially. So it does not surprise me ladies gravitate towards them, they have many great attributes.

 

Joking, funny and casual aren't my attributes at all, never have been. Mine are determination and the want to try and do the impossible, challenge myself and others to do what we think we cannot do.

 

 

So generally you meet women for dating in a social setting. Women, like most people are in a social setting to have laughs, relax, not think about work or work they have to do, get away from the seriousness. They are not out socially to prove they can do what they were told they can't, they are out to hopefully laugh so hard they p*ss themselves. They go home from that and remember the time fondly.

 

 

If you are overly serious, you have probably been called "intense". I will say I have friends that are overly serious and intense and it seems like at times I am talking to a potential psycho about to snap and attack anyone in the room at any time...If I keep talking to them I am afraid to continue the conversation because if I say something like, "Did you see the Tigers game last night?", they might jump down my throat and chew me out for 40 minutes about how much of a waste of time watching baseball is. I usually end up limiting my interaction with them because I am thinking, am I going to have to fight this serial killer looking dude at some point tonight? The funny thing is, they are decent guys, socially inept but decent, but the super seriousness is odd and gives a creepy, serial killer vibe. It takes a long time to get past that and then any time you go out in public you have to spend time telling women you meet that he is not really a serial killer when they start getting creeped out by him.

 

 

I think this is an important part of your personality that is holding you back. 99.9% of the women you will meet, especially attractive ones, want someone that is enjoyable and not intense. They want to have fun and rank sense of humor highly. They want to enjoy life and don't feel their enjoyment in life only comes from 'proving you can do what others told you that you cannot'. Instead, they are comfortable and look for enjoyment and not a challenge for the ages when it comes to a date.

 

 

I think this comes back to your self-esteem too, really. I think you feel proving yourself is the most important thing. If someone tells you that you can't do something, I bet you think the only way you can feel good about yourself is to go show them that you can do it and more! I bet you can't say, "I don't need to prove myself to you", because you feel you do need to prove yourself.

 

 

The problem is, the other people still won't be impressed or really care that much about what you accomplish, they might think, "that's nice. I still don't like him". Same with dating. If you are not fun, funny, relaxing to be around, you're going to put women off and chase them away. If you make a woman laugh hard for 30 minutes and walk away, she will want to be around you again. She will view you as a lot of fun and when other friends are making plans, she will insist that you are invited. If you bore the sh*t out of her with your accomplishments or intensity, she will tell friends she's not coming if you are invited.

 

 

So you want to know what to do if I were you? I'd challenge myself to become fun and interesting. I'd challenge myself to make a woman laugh so hard she cries...you like challenges, I bet this is one you cannot conquer. In fact, I am sure you can't do it. You'll never become fun and enjoyable to be around to women, it's impossible...you'll never prove me wrong and become fun to be around because as you said, you were born serious and always have been. This would be one challenge you can never pass. I'm guessing everyone else will say you cannot do it either.

[ZA Dater]

So generally you meet women for dating in a social setting. Women, like most people are in a social setting to have laughs, relax, not think about work or work they have to do, get away from the seriousness. They are not out socially to prove they can do what they were told they can't, they are out to hopefully laugh so hard they p*ss themselves. They go home from that and remember the time fondly.

 

If you are overly serious, you have probably been called "intense". I

So you want to know what to do if I were you? I'd challenge myself to become fun and interesting. I'd challenge myself to make a woman laugh so hard she cries...you like challenges, I bet this is one you cannot conquer. In fact, I am sure you can't do it. You'll never become fun and enjoyable to be around to women, it's impossible...you'll never prove me wrong and become fun to be around because as you said, you were born serious and always have been. This would be one challenge you can never pass. I'm guessing everyone else will say you cannot do it either.

 

For someone who doesn't know me from a bar of soap you read me well. Guess what, I think about work almost all the time, why because its what keeps me focussed. Laugh at what exactly? My humour is more of the dry variety which most people miss so again I suppose I need to play to some sort of common humour.

 

I am indeed intense, that's very true. Partly because if I am like that I never loose focus on whatever I am trying to do, sure I will try and smile and be relaxed on dates, I'll tell the odd stupid story but that's not my forte.

 

When it comes to interesting I can talk on many topics however most people I meet seemingly cant so I end up having to find some topic and just use that. My work obsessed life had given me certain advantages, people I have met, conversations I have had, stories I have heard but typically the people I don't cant relate to any of that much like I cant relate to whoever their friend is who is dating some guy who does whatever he does for a living, my interest tends to wane quickly.

 

Look I am not so dense I cant figure out people want a good time but its extremely tiring trying to be false all the time, all I want to do is be me. fun to be around but chances are I'll always be the one people can depend on and the one they respect so to some extent I am happy with that but like everyone I wonder what it would be like to just once find mutual attraction. Just once.

 

I have met people I really liked, people who did bring out a different less serious side of me but the key is they brought that side out because I really liked them, why did I really like them, well all had something really different to me, the latest one I liked enough to go completely out of my comfort zone and overall the few days of lunches, dinners and the night I spent dancing with her were all memorable. What made her different, she just saw the good in me and just told me it was ok to be different but then again she was friend zoning me. Given the choice I'd rather have that than a Tinder date.

 

So yes I am capable of doing that but I don't meet people I actually like all that often.

 

You want to know the biggest irony of all, this intense guy get along really well with kids, friends 6yo is besotted with me again I can drop all the armour and just be me because I know I am not being judged, I can be silly and he laughs, so yes there is one person on this planet who finds me funny.

Edited June 14, 2019 by ZA Dater

[Normm]

Joking, funny and casual aren't my attributes at all, never have been. Mine are determination and the want to try and do the impossible, challenge myself and others to do what we think we cannot do.

 

 

This from a guy who has dismissed dozens of great ideas because well, he just doesn't feel comfortable doing them.

[NuevoYorko]

There is a vast difference between being "serious" and being a self-important drag. No finger pointing here, but anyone who wants to have a successful relationship needs to have more to offer in an interpersonal way than a high opinion of themselves.

[littleblackheart]

if I remove the emotion from the situation I don't care if I get rejected.

 

Your long posting history shows that you actually deeply care about being 'rejected' so this 'self-preservation' strategy is not really working to your advantage.

 

New tack: perhaps stop removing the emotion from the situation?

[jspice]

I think it’s unfair of you to blame the women for not having an interest in discussing your topics.

 

You chose them from Tinder, and then judge them on something they don’t even know is a requirement.

You can’t blame them because you are rigid in your thinking. It sounds like you’re going out with them just so you can prove you’re right about “every woman”.

So you can come here to say, see I told you!

 

That’s not fair

[elaine567]

Women in general who are truly interested in a man tend to talk twenty to the dozen and are very good at keeping the conversation going, unless socially inadequate or very shy.

(With the disclaimer that women who are very used to meeting the public ie in their job, can show a lot of "social" and polite interest but can have no romantic interest in the man whatsoever...)

 

If a woman is sitting there on a date with little or nothing to say, then it is a good bet she has no interest whatsoever.

[chillii]

So generally you meet women for dating in a social setting. Women, like most people are in a social setting to have laughs, relax, not think about work or work they have to do, get away from the seriousness. They are not out socially to prove they can do what they were told they can't, they are out to hopefully laugh so hard they p*ss themselves. They go home from that and remember the time fondly.

 

 

If you are overly serious, you have probably been called "intense". I will say I have friends that are overly serious and intense and it seems like at times I am talking to a potential psycho about to snap and attack anyone in the room at any time...If I keep talking to them I am afraid to continue the conversation because if I say something like, "Did you see the Tigers game last night?", they might jump down my throat and chew me out for 40 minutes about how much of a waste of time watching baseball is. I usually end up limiting my interaction with them because I am thinking, am I going to have to fight this serial killer looking dude at some point tonight? The funny thing is, they are decent guys, socially inept but decent, but the super seriousness is odd and gives a creepy, serial killer vibe. It takes a long time to get past that and then any time you go out in public you have to spend time telling women you meet that he is not really a serial killer when they start getting creeped out by him.

 

 

I think this is an important part of your personality that is holding you back. 99.9% of the women you will meet, especially attractive ones, want someone that is enjoyable and not intense. They want to have fun and rank sense of humor highly. They want to enjoy life and don't feel their enjoyment in life only comes from 'proving you can do what others told you that you cannot'. Instead, they are comfortable and look for enjoyment and not a challenge for the ages when it comes to a date.

 

 

I think this comes back to your self-esteem too, really. I think you feel proving yourself is the most important thing. If someone tells you that you can't do something, I bet you think the only way you can feel good about yourself is to go show them that you can do it and more! I bet you can't say, "I don't need to prove myself to you", because you feel you do need to prove yourself.

 

 

The problem is, the other people still won't be impressed or really care that much about what you accomplish, they might think, "that's nice. I still don't like him". Same with dating. If you are not fun, funny, relaxing to be around, you're going to put women off and chase them away. If you make a woman laugh hard for 30 minutes and walk away, she will want to be around you again. She will view you as a lot of fun and when other friends are making plans, she will insist that you are invited. If you bore the sh*t out of her with your accomplishments or intensity, she will tell friends she's not coming if you are invited.

 

 

So you want to know what to do if I were you? I'd challenge myself to become fun and interesting. I'd challenge myself to make a woman laugh so hard she cries...you like challenges, I bet this is one you cannot conquer. In fact, I am sure you can't do it. You'll never become fun and enjoyable to be around to women, it's impossible...you'll never prove me wrong and become fun to be around because as you said, you were born serious and always have been. This would be one challenge you can never pass. I'm guessing everyone else will say you cannot do it either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Haaa, nice try but l think we've learnt it'll take a bit more than the old l betcha can't psychology to move mr za.

Still, you've met some great women lately za so at least they're giving you a shot and this could be well worth a shot by you too.Ya don't have to be a some damn clown fool, just lighten up a bit, your out with a lady, it's suppose to be a time to forget life's bs and enjoy yourself.

Edited June 15, 2019 by chillii

[Mike800]

There is a subreddit called

r/equalattraction.

 

People post a selfie and others find the physical equivalent in the opposite sex.

 

It might give u an idea of what girls u should be shooting for.

 

Tbh not sure how active it is but worth a shot.

 

No offense but i find that dumb.

 

People aren’t robots who just get with whatever somebody thinks is their exact equivalent physically.

 

You’re taking connection compatibility emotions personality and a ton of other things out of the equation.

 

If I listened to that garbage I would have never dated women who were much better looking then iam but I have.

[chillii]

Actually , many if forums are anything to go by are like robots in this stuff.

But nah, l think you missed the point. lt's not talking about everything or anything , just a place to start with, one area, because somethings obviously just not working and nothing is even getting of the ground. So personally l think the physical side might be a good place to just start with looking at because there does seem to be some road block there as well and it seems instant, like the minute they get together . So your not even gonna get to the rest if that part just isn't happening and there must be a reason for it because it keeps happening.

Edited June 15, 2019 by chillii

[Mike800]

Actually , many if forums are anything to go by are like robots in this stuff.

But nah, l think you missed the point. lt's not talking about everything or anything , just a place to start with, one area, because somethings obviously just not working and nothing is even getting of the ground. So personally l think the physical side might be a good place to just start with looking at because there does seem to be some road block there as well and it seems instant, like the minute they get together . So your not even gonna get to the rest if that part just isn't happening and there must be a reason for it because it keeps happening.

 

I don’t know what he looks like but reading his posts his problem isn’t physical it’s how he interacts with these women.

 

Putting whatever you think is his physical

equivalent isn’t gonna make them attracted to him with how he interacts with women.

[chillii]

Emphasis on "it's a start" because no one really knows wth is going on for sure.

ps, me , l think it's both.

Edited June 16, 2019 by chillii
ps

[lonelyplanetmoon]

OP, you are here posting so I know you do care.

 

Truth is I used to be a lot like you. I also have a logical mind but the problem with logic is that we tend to make our own facts to stick to what we know. We use it as a weapon to affirm things in life so we don’t have to change. Just beware of the pitfalls.

 

Anyway, my logical mind had a shift when I went to a communications seminar and discovered all the different communication styles (Myers–Briggs Type Indicator). I had assumed everyone communicated like me before then.

 

But the one thing that will forever stick with me, is the trainer said that the goal in one’s life should be to become the opposite of what your natural style is. That going out of your comfort zone and learning to be different than what you know and are used to, is how you grow as a person. If you are naturally an introvert, work at becoming an extrovert and vice versa, etc.

 

My point- it is fine to know who you are but only when you work at changing who you are, do you grow as a person and develop different points of views. It is the ability to accept and encourage another person’s point of view is where you show a woman you have the abiilty to connect with her at her level.