lana-banana Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 That might be true. While I am trying to figure out the best path based on all considerations, MM is also making it damn hard by continuing to suggest and schedule future opportunities for us to spend time together. Right now I am not yet in a place where I’ve been able to say no to that. But he's not suggesting leaving his wife for you, or being together in the long-term, or having a serious relationship with you. He's just indicating that he is willing to continue the affair for now. He'll probably go back on that at some point for a little while, then resume it again when he feels like it. It seems to me that you are operating from the assumption that he's deciding whether he wants to leave his wife for you. You are thinking about the future in terms of "us being together" or "us not being together". But it's very clear he isn't thinking in those terms. To him it's a matter of "have an affair" or "don't have an affair". Being with you in the long run isn't on his radar. Wouldn't you agree the best path forward involves limiting the pain to everyone involved, yourself included? Why not pursue that path? Ending the affair yourself hurts now, but is a lot easier than his pulling the plug - just look at LKK's thread. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 He says, he says, he said, he said... But what has he done? When you pressed, he broke it off with you. Told you he was going to work on his family. He told you right there what he wants to do. The sad thing is when he contacted you later, and you stayed "on" you showed him exactly what you are willing to do. He will have no respect for a woman who is willing to be a side piece. So if he ever leaves his wife, you'll likely just stay being a side piece. You'll be the traveling sort. While he finds someone else to fill in wife role. And that is if he divorces and I feel, since he TOLD you, that the only way that happens is if she divorces him. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 OP, every time you give him an inch, you push the boundaries of what you will and won't accept from hm back a little bit further. You're teaching him how you want to be treated and what you'll be willing to accept and still stick around. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 He says, he says, he said, he said... But what has he done? When you pressed, he broke it off with you. Told you he was going to work on his family. He told you right there what he wants to do. The sad thing is when he contacted you later, and you stayed "on" you showed him exactly what you are willing to do. He will have no respect for a woman who is willing to be a side piece. So if he ever leaves his wife, you'll likely just stay being a side piece. You'll be the traveling sort. While he finds someone else to fill in wife role. And that is if he divorces and I feel, since he TOLD you, that the only way that happens is if she divorces him. Yes- it is quite likely he will not leave unless she throws him out- even then, who knows. Is he really working on his family right now? Possibly, since he is spending more time with them over these two weeks than he possibly ever has at one time. On the other hand, is it really working on something if he continues to want to plan and spend time with me? I’m sure everyone will have different opinions, including that he is doing both. I can’t predict the future but I think there will be several things that become more clear in the next three weeks - up to and including when we are scheduled to meet again. He will have opportunities to demonstrate actions rather than just talk (or not), and I will continue to process and figure out my path as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Geez... head meet wall. No, obviously, he is not fully working on his family. You are NOT understanding. He told you he was working on his family so you would know he is NOT leaving his wife. But he has no qualms about being in an affair with you. He was setting your expectations straight. And since you have zero self respect, you just keep at it. If you cannot respect yourself, he will not respect you. You're just there to give him some side action when his wife cannot be there to give it to him. That is what you are... and that is what you will stay. That is what his actions have proven. In your mind, him keeping in contact with you means that he is considering leaving still. That is only because you are thinking people can only be with one person. The person they love. You are straight WRONG. And everything he has done and said has pointed to this. This man is worse than some of the others. Bringing you around his family. It is very sickening. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 The monogamous OW, thinks monogamously, she leaves her husband/partner to concentrate on the MM. She wants to build that relationship so that they can be together. The MM who acquires a OW, is not usually monogamous at all, though he sometimes spins a good yarn to convince the monogamous OW to sleep with him and then stick around. Sleeping with 2 women or sometimes more is no big deal to him. It is in his best interests to acquire a monogamous OW, as there is no way he wants to deal with an OW who is sleeping with Tom Dick and Harry too... Too risky. God forbid he gives his saintly wife an STD, the game would be up then... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Something my ex-husband used to say. Who turns out was a serial cheater. I just thought he was talking about his college days... I should have listened... 3 women is the perfect amount..1 woman is never enough and 2 women is too close to just one. So you always need to keep 3 women... He also further described how no woman was perfect at all the things he wanted to do. So like he had a girl that was great for real dates. The romantic dinners, movies, something you would do like with a family. She's the wife material. That is the one you marry. Then there is the chick that is just a good time. The one that can party until 5am with. And then there is the one that enjoys the same hobbies/sports. So you always have someone to go do those things with. What is funny is that I fell into all 3 categories. I could be all 3. Except he still found more extreme examples of the other non-life types. (Like a female pro of his chosen sport (I couldnt keep up, she could) and an extreme alcoholic with a drug problem to boot.... ) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 You keep moving the goalposts for your serious conversation which will give you the answers you need. Twice in this thread you were planning to have a big talk with him and then came back and said that you two talked and that he said both that he is working on his family and that he wants to spend time with you. Is the next big talk going to be any different? If he says the same thing again, will you move the goalposts again? You have given him all the power so unless he says, "I never want to see you again!" you are going to hold out hope that he will change his mind. The only way to not be in a love triangle is to exit the love triangle. People often tell betrayed wives who are doing the "pick me dance" that they have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it. The same goes for you. You have to be willing to lose the relationship to have a monogamous one. Otherwise you will be clinging to the affair until someone else ends it for you. You've mentioned a few times that maybe BW will kick him out. I wouldn't count on this. He forgave her infidelity so she'd be a hypocrite if she wasn't willing to try now, right? And they have a child to consider. You're also not understanding the powerful hormones that take place between a couple when their monogamy is threatened. He'll even be able to tell her that he tried to end it with you a few times but you kept hanging on. He'll say something about how he had to keep it going because he was afraid you'd reveal it otherwise. Chances are high you will not only be dumped, you'll be vilified and scapegoated too. Do you have the resources to handle that if it comes to it? I really wish you would find that IC now. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I'll add that the contempt he feels for BW now is likely to melt away on DDay. Remember this whole thing was based on his belief that she doesn't really care about him. When he sees how broken she is, he'll realize how wrong he was, and the placater in him will go to work. I'm worried that even then you will make excuses for him. Will you be one of the OW who keeps phishing long after the MM has gone silent? Will you keep telling yourself that he just needs more time to smooth things over at home before he can realize you're really the one he wants to be with? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRising8 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I'll add that the contempt he feels for BW now is likely to melt away on DDay. Remember this whole thing was based on his belief that she doesn't really care about him. When he sees how broken she is, he'll realize how wrong he was, and the placater in him will go to work. /QUOTE] THIS!!! Mine had a lot of contempt for BS. Felt unloved, taken for granted, unappreciated. When he told her he wanted out, she went crazy. Couldn't understand why after all these years he didn't even want to try. He was taken aback. Felt he owed it to her to make a show of talking but felt no physical or emotional connection. She spent the next 6 months showing him just how much she cares about their marriage while he spent just as much time and effort into our relationship as ever. It was always clear he preferred us to them but in the final analysis, the cost was too great. He could at least tolerate their marriage and ending it carried to great a cost financially, with friends and family. To the end he always said he preferred us but was finding it harder and harder to come to terms wreaking havoc on his life. The longer they wait, the harder it is for them to leave. The more time they have to consider the repercussions and effect on those around them. The more the fear of leaving and what that entails takes a stronger grip. And so they stay, even if they prefer to leave. Better the devil you know, even if you aren't exactly happy. But if you can tolerate it and have some level of comfort, at least you know what you have. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Crazelnut Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Telling this poster that MM is using her and manipulating her isn't going to work. She still strongly believes that he is selfless and tortured and still loves her. (You know, all the same crap that every other OW believes until she wakes up.) Raising the ethics and morality of the situation is also pointless because she has convinced herself that this is justified because of the soulmate/destiny nonsense (that every other OW believes until she wakes up). The only truth that could possibly get through to her is to point out that he is not leaving his wife. He has confirmed this with his words and actions, and she needs to decide if she's okay with that. Period. OP, you are clearly going to learn this lesson the hard way. You believe your affair is the exception, the one-in-a-million intense love between 2 people who were just matched with the wrong spouses. IT ISN'T. It is following the affair playback by the paragraph. Work colleagues? Check. Best friends? Check. Star crossed lovers? Check. Horrible BS? Check. Promises for a future together? Check. Waffling? Check. MM "working" on his marriage while still contacting/banging OW? Check. OW justifying/rationalizing it all? Check. Your story has been played out here 1000 times. It almost always ends with the OW in soul crushing pain. You are headed there. Please turn back. Please respect yourself. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 No, obviously, he is not fully working on his family. You are NOT understanding. He told you he was working on his family so you would know he is NOT leaving his wife. But he has no qualms about being in an affair with you. He was setting your expectations straight. And since you have zero self respect, you just keep at it. If you cannot respect yourself, he will not respect you. In your mind, him keeping in contact with you means that he is considering leaving still. That is only because you are thinking people can only be with one person. The person they love. You are straight WRONG. This. Absolutely this. I feel so badly for you OP. The writing is right there on the wall, but you just can’t read it yet. He is not working on his family. He is happily enjoying a vacation with his family right now. That does not mean that he is also not looking forward to having sex with you when he returns from vacation. He is not staying in contact because he wants to have a relationship with you. He has already made that decision. He is staying in contact with you because he wants to keep you in this affair. And I would say, he’s doing a really good job. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
sagamore Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Yes- it is quite likely he will not leave unless she throws him out- even then, who knows. Is he really working on his family right now? Possibly, since he is spending more time with them over these two weeks than he possibly ever has at one time. On the other hand, is it really working on something if he continues to want to plan and spend time with me? I’m sure everyone will have different opinions, including that he is doing both. I can’t predict the future but I think there will be several things that become more clear in the next three weeks - up to and including when we are scheduled to meet again. He will have opportunities to demonstrate actions rather than just talk (or not), and I will continue to process and figure out my path as well. A, please answer these four questions: What is going to become clear in the next few weeks? What makes you think the next few weeks will be decisive? What actions would he need to take to demonstrate that you should stay? How would you know it was time to go? I keep coming back to LKK’s situation and comparing it. At least her MM was stringing her along by continuously giving her dates when he would leave. You appear, sadly, to be stringing yourself along... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
HadMeOverABarrel Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Asaysno, "working on his family" is code for "I'm invested in my family and family life, and I won't be changing that any time soon, if ever." He's told you, but you won't accept it. Also look out for these buzz phrases (among others): You're too good for me. I don't deserve you. My home life is complicated. My child is demanding. I can't give you what you want. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HadMeOverABarrel Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 This. Absolutely this. He is not staying in contact because he wants to have a relationship with you. He has already made that decision. He is staying in contact with you because he wants to keep you in this affair. And I would say, he’s doing a really good job. To add clarity (hope I'm not stepping on your toes, Bailey)... because he wants to extract the BENEFITS from a relationship with Asaysno/OP for his own selfish purposes, not because he wants to invest in building a stable, healthy foundation for the future! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Asaysno, "working on his family" is code for "I'm invested in my family and family life, and I won't be changing that any time soon, if ever." He's told you, but you won't accept it. Also look out for these buzz phrases (among others): You're too good for me. I don't deserve you. My home life is complicated. My child is demanding. I can't give you what you want. I bet we could make a Bingo game with the stuff he's going to say. Asaysno, please remember that words are just that. When he says these things, you interpret it as him being this great martyr who wants you to have what you deserve, so you say, "No, no, no! I understand! I want to be with you anyway!" He gets to be the good guy and continue the affair at the same time. But if he were really selfless, he wouldn't just say the right thing, he would do the right thing by you. My husband really did regret how he let the OW put her life on hold to see if it would work out with him when she was well into her 30s and really set on having kids. Of course, he justified it by saying that it was her choice and how could he help it if she saw how awesome he was and was willing to wait for him? And maybe there was a slight chance he'd actually get divorced anyway? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRising8 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I keep coming back to LKK’s situation and comparing it. At least her MM was stringing her along by continuously giving her dates when he would leave. You appear, sadly, to be stringing yourself along... Looks like I'm the poster child for this thread lol. But seriously. I've had 2 months to think about everything. The only conclusion I can draw is that if he were a healthy person, and not the conflict avoidant, people pleaser with only a wishbone where his backbone ought to be, he would have followed through. He would not have acted out in a way that could have had him thrown out, which of course she didn't. He would have done what he wanted to do. To take that a step further, he would have left before having an affair. An affair fills the voids without causing the upheaval to the marriage ... for a time in any case. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
HadMeOverABarrel Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Yesterday after getting home he contacted me briefly, and then we talked for a while this morning. It was actually mostly about work stuff as some of our trips are getting cancelled/rescheduled. He has been affectionate and humorous in his communication- and still signing off with “I love yous”. To a certain extent I am experiencing this in a detached observing way - keeping in mind what everyone has said. Keep working towards that detachment and you will really begin to see what you need to see. Detaching emotionally in this situation is loving yourself. There's no harm in it for anyone, and it will do you a world of good! Link to post Share on other sites
HadMeOverABarrel Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 LilKitKat, I enjoy your posts here. "Wishbone where his backbone should be"....oh my gosh, that is totally brillant!!! Did you come up with that yourself? If I were still communicating with xMM, I would so enjoy telling him that. Really funny and clever! Lol! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Orokotikki Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 "detaching" but staying in contact - is just part of the intermittent reinforcement game where you are petulantly trying to goad him into giving more ego kibbles than he has been recently. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRising8 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 LilKitKat, I enjoy your posts here. "Wishbone where his backbone should be"....oh my gosh, that is totally brillant!!! Did you come up with that yourself? If I were still communicating with xMM, I would so enjoy telling him that. Really funny and clever! Lol! I wish it were entirely original but it's my take on something I read somewhere. Unfortunately, people with no backbone wake up one morning and find that all those happy tomorrows they were wishing for have turned into a pile of empty yesterdays. Their inaction has bred doubt and fear they have become paralyzed in. As much pain as this whole fiasco has caused, I am finally taking action and trying to regain my confidence. I at least have the opportunity to find happiness in myself and with someone else. He will forever be stuck in mediocrity, at best. The only way to avoid that would be for him to take decisive action. But then he'd have to have a backbone and we know he doesn't. Yeah, it still hurts but that's something to hold on to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRising8 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 MM is also making it damn hard by continuing to suggest and schedule future opportunities for us to spend time together. Right now I am not yet in a place where I’ve been able to say no to that. Let me correct that for you ... "I am making it hard on myself by allowing MM to continue ... ". He is only doing what you are allowing. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
HadMeOverABarrel Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 To add clarity (hope I'm not stepping on your toes, Bailey)... because he wants to extract the BENEFITS from a relationship with Asaysno/OP for his own selfish purposes, not because he wants to invest in building a stable, healthy foundation for the future! This message is for OP and anyone else in her situation. Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRising8 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I can’t predict the future but I think there will be several things that become more clear in the next three weeks - up to and including when we are scheduled to meet again. He will have opportunities to demonstrate actions rather than just talk (or not), and I will continue to process and figure out my path as well. You may not be able to predict the future but only because you don't believe the collective prognostications of this forum. The rest of us can see that speeding train hitting that massive boulder, sooner rather than later. As for his opportunity to demonstrate by actions, there's only one action he could take to prove it's you but it's one he won't takes. But you'll grasp on to any small actions that even remotely fits your narrative. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Amethyst68 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I don't know, there's just something in my gut that says OP may have been the agressor on this affair. I mean going home and divorcing your husband after 2hrs is going to send a certain message to a man. Now some men would run, thinking obsessive and no way in hell but others would think they must be superman. As for the recent texts remember we're only getting one side of a 2 way conversation. Who knows which one initiated the work talk about schedules and meet ups. I'm sorry, I guess I'm either missing or just not seeing where OP is being taken advantage of. OP, go NC, if you're on leave there's no need to discuss work, that can be done when you're actually at work. Concentrate on your son, on living a healthy life and not being a 3rd party in a marriage where you have no place being. Link to post Share on other sites
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