In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

June 17, 2019

op,\when it comes right down to it, what really matters is what you are looking for in a relationship. If all you want is a "companion" who can give you some of his time when it suits him, this relationship might be a good fit for you.

If what you want is someone who can give you more, you are more than likley barking up the wrong tree.

An exercise that may be helpful is to think of what you want your life to be like five years, ten years or even more down the road. What are your goals and objectives? Do you think mm will help you or hurt you in pursuit of those? Also, as a mother, what sort of benefit/ drawback does being with mm bring into your son's life? How much headspace does he occupy that could be better spent on other aspects of life?

It sounds very much to me like you already know he;s no good for you, but you are trying to convince yourself otherwise. The lies we tell to ourselves are the worst ones of all.

June 17, 2019

I read them all - and have reread the whole thread many times. I don’t respond when I feel a post is wildly inaccurate with specific assumptions, or if I feel nothing would be gained by arguing something.

Today is an extremely painful day. Trying to be objective and just feel overwhelmed by sadness.

I'm so sorry you're having a hard day. I am too. I know my posts are harsh but they're all meant to be helpful.

I support you..if that means anything.

June 17, 2019

Today is an extremely painful day. Trying to be objective and just feel overwhelmed by sadness.

You're at the point asaysno that sadness is inevitable. If you decide this isn't for you, you will feel sad. If you stay, you will feel sad.

When you find the strength to walk away, the sadness will dissipate over time; you will heal and life will take you to new adventures.

Jump all in with your son now, make some fun with him, force yourself to focus on your child.

See the joy in his eyes when he knows you're all there/present with him.

June 17, 2019

I'm sorry today is a bad day asaysno. You are processing, and that's not easy.

June 17, 2019

op,\when it comes right down to it, what really matters is what you are looking for in a relationship. If all you want is a "companion" who can give you some of his time when it suits him, this relationship might be a good fit for you.

If what you want is someone who can give you more, you are more than likley barking up the wrong tree.

An exercise that may be helpful is to think of what you want your life to be like five years, ten years or even more down the road. What are your goals and objectives? Do you think mm will help you or hurt you in pursuit of those? Also, as a mother, what sort of benefit/ drawback does being with mm bring into your son's life? How much headspace does he occupy that could be better spent on other aspects of life?

It sounds very much to me like you already know he;s no good for you, but you are trying to convince yourself otherwise. The lies we tell to ourselves are the worst ones of all.

I’ve thought about this a lot - what is right for me, right now. I am at the beginning of a two year holding pattern before my son finishes his current school, my ex and I sell the property where we both live, I likely have a different project focus in my job, etc.

I’ve wondered if a sometimes companion is actually fairly ideal for the situation as I don’t have the time or inclination to date locally as I’m focused on my son when I’m home and traveling the rest of the time.

The issues of course are that I am monogamous-oriented and hate being part of an affair scenario, and have extremely deep feelings for the guy, and we have not yet landed on whether and how this new chapter in the relationship will go, and I love every minute of the time we spend together, and the list goes on- pros and cons.

June 17, 2019

I think it was on your thread that someone mentioned pros and cons, and to end the relationship when the cons outweigh the pros.

I don't agree with this. I think the things in my life should all be spectacular. I don't want a relationship that is 55% good and 45% bad. Your standard of measure should be a strong, healthy relationship, not one that's just barely good enough to hold on to.

Edited June 17, 2019 by heartwhole2

June 17, 2019

I agree. Lists of pros and cons are for jobs, not relationships. If someone isn't consistently making you happy and being part of your life in a positive way, they're not a good long-term partner.

I’ve wondered if a sometimes companion is actually fairly ideal for the situation as I don’t have the time or inclination to date locally as I’m focused on my son when I’m home and traveling the rest of the time.

You are already bargaining your standards down, telling yourself you'll be content with the precious, precious little he's offering. On some level you know that he isn't going to leave his wife to be with you, and you're trying to convince us that you wouldn't really mind. I can see through it all the way across the internet.

and we have not yet landed on whether and how this new chapter in the relationship will go

You write this as though it's a decision you're making together, when in reality he's the one with all the power. You know what you want, but because he won't do anything, you're frozen in a hell of your own making.

In a healthy relationship you tell the other person when their behavior hurts you. Doesn't it bother you that you won't do that? You want him so badly that you're willing to be in horrendous pain, suffering in silence in hopes that maybe someday he'll make it stop.

and I love every minute of the time we spend together,

Even when you're sitting right next to him and he adamantly denies that you exist?

June 17, 2019

I’m also sorry that today is a sad day. But, I agree with Timshel - you are at the point where sadness is inevitable. You can either pull the bandaid off and feel the sadness and loss of the relationship you have/thought you had... Or, you can continue on this path where the sadness continues, the ups and the downs, indefinitely.

Sure, it may feel like passing the time in a “sometimes companion” may seem ideal, but how is that working for you today. You want more, you thought you had more - if you chose to continue this “sometimes companion” it will break you down in ways that you can’t begin to understand now...

Edited June 17, 2019 by BaileyB

June 17, 2019

For the record, this thread is helping me quite a bit, but I am in the right mental space to truly be receptive to the message. In fairness, it took me one solid year of returning to this forum on almost a daily basis to get to this place.

June 17, 2019

That’s a fair statement...

In order to establish any sort of equilibrium I would have to also truly adjust my approach and expectations... it would have to become a totally different thing for me mentally and emotionally.

June 17, 2019

I do understand your predicament. Certainly suddenly discovering that I was married to a self-absorbed, whiney cheater was awful. It wasn't what I signed up for. So I had to decide if the marriage could be what I wanted some day, and if so, what would that look like, and if not, how would I know and how would I execute that? It can be overwhelming to think your life is heading is one direction and all of a sudden the rug is pulled out from under you. I would prefer the option where my husband never broke my heart and blew up our lives for really dumb reasons, but I don't have that option. You would prefer the option where he left like he said he would and he never wavered and you got your happily ever after.

But denial never helps. You have to know exactly what he is offering and exactly what you are gaining and giving up. And he's not going to give you a straight answer. He can't. It's beyond his abilities right now. He doesn't know himself well enough. Two women vying for him is the perfect deflection from having to look himself in the mirror. Two women want him, so how bad can he be? So you will get no answers from him. He has no intentions other than to let both of you keep adoring him and fulfilling different roles in his life.

Where I think I went right in this whole mess is that my husband's rejection of me couldn't shake me. I mean, yes, I curled up in a ball on the floor of the shower making an ungodly sound. Yes, I lost 5 pounds overnight. But I was never in doubt that I was in charge of my own happiness. I was never worried that I wasn't going to find love again, if he had blown ours. He could come along on my journey of self-empowerment and grace and kicking life's ass, or he could not. I was going on the journey either way.

You don't need him for clarity about your journey. If he wants to come along, if he can keep up, then you can see where it goes. But don't stand still for him. You'll regret it.

You can love someone and still be firm with them. You can love someone and still love yourself more.

June 17, 2019

....
The ONLY decision you should be considering is whether or not YOU want to end it and move forward instead of waiting for years in this dead end arrangement that mainly benefits MM and deceives MANY.

Actually, the only person truly being deceived is MM’s wife- and of course that is a significant deception that I have urged him many times to come clean about. The few other people who would actually care already know. But yes, Inhave some decisions to make.

Edited June 18, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

June 18, 2019

................You don't need him for clarity about your journey. If he wants to come along, if he can keep up, then you can see where it goes. But don't stand still for him. You'll regret it.

You can love someone and still be firm with them. You can love someone and still love yourself more.

This message really resonates with me as it aligns with my general life philosophy- I truly believe no one else can “make” us happy; we are each in charge of ourselves. What is challenging in this context is that I feel great happiness when I spend time with this guy- he doesn’t “make” me happy but when I choose time and energy with him I feel very joyful.

Edited June 18, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

June 18, 2019

That’s a fair statement...
In order to establish any sort of equilibrium I would have to also truly adjust my approach and expectations... it would have to become a totally different thing for me mentally and emotionally.

Yes, but this has always been the case though, you haven't had an easy road since before you started this affair. This is a continuance of difficulty, essentially the same. Emotional incongruity....this is all too familiar, the same path.

You will need to step away from romantic relationships for a time and get out of yourself. You are repeating the same pattern over and over.

As I said before, you are self harming.

You said that therapy isn't easily available but that would be a gift to yourself to find a licensed practitioner.

You are correct asaysno that 'it would have to become a totally different thing for me mentally and emotionally.' Yes, and that will not come easily or overnight, this is hard work. It's also the best thing that you could do for yourself and your son.

It is freedom.

June 18, 2019

Our philosophies differ when it comes to believing that a single person can make us feel that way. There are plenty of people I could have great sex, love, and joy with. I eliminate the potential partners who cause me to lose my self-respect or my integrity. I am suggesting that you move forward into the monogamous space that you say you want. If he wants to join you, hey, maybe you can beat the odds. If he doesn't, then you choose yourself. You don't have to choose between love/joy and integrity/monogamy. That is a false binary.

My point in my previous post was that I made it clear to my husband that I was moving forward into monogamy and health and maturity and selflessness, and he could join me or not. I didn't wait, frozen, for fear that he wouldn't come with me.

June 18, 2019

Our philosophies differ when it comes to believing that a single person can make us feel that way. .....

I hear you. I’m working on the courage to get to that point as the current emotions are running too high.

Edited June 18, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

June 18, 2019

What is challenging in this context is that I feel great happiness when I spend time with this guy- he doesn’t “make” me happy but when I choose time and energy with him I feel very joyful.

But please understand that, when it comes to married men, the price for the happiness or highs we get from being with them is the inevitable lows that follow (you know, all those feelings that made you find this forum and keep you coming back to it). They are part and parcel of the situation, and in fact a hallmark of literally every single affair I have ever read about on here, not to mention my own

Again, the drug addiction analogy is exactly on point, because I promise you most cocaine users are quite happy while they are on it too.

June 18, 2019

I hear you. I’m working on the courage to get to that point as the current emotions are running too high.

That's completely understandable. You've been working at this puzzle a very short time.

June 18, 2019

Actually, the only person truly being deceived is MM’s wife- and of course that is a significant deception that I have urged him many times to come clean about. The few other people who would actually care already know. But yes, Inhave some decisions to make.

Ah..well..this is not exactly true since you still think there's a chance he will leave her for you.

If you've never heard it, look up the term future faking.

June 18, 2019

Actually, the only person truly being deceived is MM’s wife- and of course that is a significant deception that I have urged him many times to come clean about.

Of course, it’s not really your concern whether he tells his wife or not. It’s not your relationship. Sorry to be blunt, but if you were truly concerned for his wife’s feelings, you wouldn’t just be urging him to tell her the truth. You could end your emotional affair and stop sleeping with her husband...

Edited June 18, 2019 by BaileyB

June 18, 2019

May I ask?... why are you asking him to tell his wife when he clearly doesn’t ever intend for her to find out about you/the affair?

Because I hate the lies and deception... and especially earlier in our relationship there were a number of times when it seemed to make sense for everyone to be aware of the truth and deal with that information rather than trying to figure out what was happening.

June 18, 2019

Ah..well..this is not exactly true since you still think there's a chance he will leave her for you.

If you've never heard it, look up the term future faking.

Yes- that was definitely happening previously... not so much now.

June 18, 2019

Of course you are having some difficult days. You love this man and yet you need to be separated from him while he spends time with his wife and child. He’s given you no assurance about the future (other than vaguely hinting at future trips - read LKK’s thread to see how far that gets you). As much as you defend him and the relationship here, you know you’re standing on shifting ground and it’s making you sad and anxious.

But as bad as it feels, this time away is a gift. You should spend it thinking about and answering these questions:

What would it take for you to know you had to walk away from this relationship?

What would it take for you to know that you were now his priority and it was worth staying?

June 18, 2019

What would it take for you to know you had to walk away from this relationship?
What would it take for you to know that you were now his priority and it was worth staying?

Those are better questions than the pro/con list.

I would also add the obvious question - what do you want for your life? Assuming that a life with this man is not an option, where do you go from there? What do you want for your life and that of your son?

June 18, 2019

What would it take for you to know you had to walk away from this relationship?
What would it take for you to know that you were now his priority and it was worth staying?

Those are great questions- I really appreciate your perspective.

Edited June 18, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

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In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

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