New to American dating scene, plz help

[megabit15]

it's a good point but do u think i wud be getting a honest reply???? i have had prior experience with this and women did NOT reply truthfully. i got bugged about this and once asked my female friend about what's the issue with this? she said whether women have boyfriends or not is their personal thing and it is none of anybody's bloody business to know about it. she said they even have the right to lie about it.... even to their families, leave alone friends.

 

what can i probably do? i really don't regret not asking her that question b'cos i know that i won't be getting a honest answer. take a guess, if this person was mature and honest don't u think she wud have told about her "on again, off again" boyfriend right in the beginning?

 

Of course all people have the right to lie - but most people are honest. When asked, most will usually say 'I date' or 'Yes, but not exlusively' or something along those lines.

 

Maybe she is just a very friendly and freedom loving type of person. She was pretty clear about not accepting compliments or touching of any sort. She could have mentioned her boyfriend, and that certainly would have been more clear. I understand your frustration in this situation.

 

However, since you had asked what you could learn from this, the advice was meant for future reference and not your current situation.

[noclobber]

since you had asked what you could learn from this, the advice was meant for future reference and not your current situation.

 

Yup! that's exactly what I am doing I have gotten over this woman pretty much now. Guess i will be totally fine in a week.

 

I am learning about the American dating process and find it very interesting. Right off the bat i can say that in India we take relationships for granted but its not the case here in the USA. that, i think, is the main reason for the high divorce rate in this country as opposed to in India.

[megabit15]

Yup! that's exactly what I am doing I have gotten over this woman pretty much now. Guess i will be totally fine in a week.

 

I am learning about the American dating process and find it very interesting. Right off the bat i can say that in India we take relationships for granted but its not the case here in the USA. that, i think, is the main reason for the high divorce rate in this country as opposed to in India.

What part of India are you from?

 

I work closely with many Indian men and women in my line of work - mostly visa holders in USA but some still located in India. We talk Yes, in general Americans are more skittish than many other cultures. I'm wondering if Bangalore will catch on to this type of culture due to the workforce revolution taking place there. Lots of increasing economic choices for both men and women, more hours in work, less ties with family, people migrating to metropolitan areas, etc. It happens with large industrialized and migratory cities. The culture in rural areas of the USA is very different from the cities.

[noclobber]

Hello Megabit

 

Glad to meet you! I am from South India. I have been in the US for 6 years now.

 

I'm wondering if Bangalore will catch on to this type of culture

 

U r wrong actually! people all over the world ape the American culture without truly knowing what it is. All the consumerism is kicking-in, no doubt but the core culture is yet to change. We r still very backward despite all the outer appearences. Love marriages r on the rise but still demand for dowry is alive and kicking on the other side. The current generation of men are torn and conflicted in having to deal with working and independent spouses... something their dads and grand-dads are not used to...

 

For marriages to succeed in India, love is not required!!! but in American marriages if love disappears then its most likely to end in divorce.. am i right? next time when u talk to an Americanized Indian guy or girl ask whether they wud be willing to walk away from their marriage once they realize that love has vanished. listen to what they say, if they say "no" then u have our Indian culture shining thru, if they say "yes" then they r lying they just don't have the guts or the emotional strength like Americans, they wud rather put up with the crap and stay together. In India, when u get married ur partner is the ONE!! and it's not just for this lifetime but for several lifetimes to come ha ha ha ha...

 

That said, I need your help in understanding something. As much as I am learning from this forum about the American dating process I am unclear about 2 things. Can you please help me out?

 

1) If men show their feelings and emotions when they r interested in a woman they r perceived to be desperate and the woman will shun them. When are men supposed to show their feelings then? Is it wrong to say "I Love You" to a woman u really love? Then of course why do women complain that men are not open about their feelings?

 

2) A guy and a girl meet. Guy is interested, asks for the girl's number and she gives it to him. They date, wine and dine, go to movies, games, have dinners, sleep together. Then when the guy says "I Love You" the woman gets all worked up - "Oh my God... this guy just slept with me once and he is already in love with me. Guess tomorrow he will even ask me to marry him" and she runs. Can u please tell when "exactly" or at what stage of dating do u actually fall in love?? And of course why do women then complain that men are afraid to commit?

 

It's not just 2 questions.. was it?

[megabit15]

Hello Megabit

 

Glad to meet you! I am from South India. I have been in the US for 6 years now.

Hi noclobber,

Nice to meet you too Welcome to the States. Most of the guys I work with are from southern India too. Why are you all leaving??

 

 

U r wrong actually! people all over the world ape the American culture without truly knowing what it is. All the consumerism is kicking-in, no doubt but the core culture is yet to change. We r still very backward despite all the outer appearances. Love marriages r on the rise but still demand for dowry is alive and kicking on the other side. The current generation of men are torn and conflicted in having to deal with working and independent spouses... something their dads and grand-dads are not used to...

*** Yup - TV, Video, Movies all portray the outer wrappings quite well. What you find inside the wrapper is emptiness. There is an Indian Master who said he liked to work with rich people because they had achieved the wealth and saw it for the emptiness it was. But until one gets wealth, one still thinks it signifies happiness and/or freedom. Americans had a very similar thing to what you describe happen in the 1950's after WWII. Women went to work in the 1940s while men were at war. The 50s came and there was nothing left to strive for - prosperity ruled. Women did not want to stop working. We had the revolutions in the 60s, the 'me' generation and accompanying divorce rates in the 70s, the business corruption in the 80s, stock market crashes in the 90s. All throughout divorce rates skyrocket, single parent families increase rapidly. Children get put in impersonal daycare because every one is working and the bond between parent and child is frailer. No one has self esteem when you have to pay people to be with you! In addition they daycare workers are not passing on parents values - but parents pass on values of work and money. Children from broken marriages do not see how to work things out and thus cannot do it themselves either (Unless a person actively seeks alternative methods). Our citizens see corruption get rewarded in business and politics. Escape from isolation is sought through drugs, sex, TV, moveis. Then those values further get passed onto children. These are many of the adults you see today. Not much to trust if we look at things through the these eyes...

 

For marriages to succeed in India, love is not required!!! but in American marriages if love disappears then its most likely to end in divorce.. am i right? next time when u talk to an Americanized Indian guy or girl ask whether they wud be willing to walk away from their marriage once they realize that love has vanished. listen to what they say, if they say "no" then u have our Indian culture shining thru, if they say "yes" then they r lying they just don't have the guts or the emotional strength like Americans, they wud rather put up with the crap and stay together. In India, when u get married ur partner is the ONE!! and it's not just for this lifetime but for several lifetimes to come ha ha ha ha...

**** Good point - maybe this is what might save Bangalore from the American fate. Now, you know I'm going to work tomorrow and ask them, right?? Some of the folks have been here much longer than 6 years, but you are right, they do not divorce, and they are not unhappily married either. Maybe it has to do with expectations of a partner. Americans tend to romanticize marriage much more than Indians. (Which is surprising due to the amount of divorce!) Honestly, I never see the Indian men flirt at work, but the American ones do. They're nice, great sense of humor, smart - but they don't flirt. Maybe it is to avoid misleading people. Either way, it's very relaxing to be around. They seem to have a sense of inner worth that does not need to feed on flirting. But yes, Indians have dowries and arranged marriages using astrology methods. Hm. Maybe we should use it too?

 

That said, I need your help in understanding something. As much as I am learning from this forum about the American dating process I am unclear about 2 things. Can you please help me out?

*** Uh - I can try...Can't speak for all Americans though. I often feel like an alien in this country!

 

1) If men show their feelings and emotions when they r interested in a woman they r perceived to be desperate and the woman will shun them. When are men supposed to show their feelings then? Is it wrong to say "I Love You" to a woman u really love? Then of course why do women complain that men are not open about their feelings?

**** Good question, hard to answer. I think when the feelings are mutual is a reasonable answer.

Alpha will tell you that it is because women want men to treat them like dirt. This particular woman does not agree with that philosophy...but strictly from observation, I think somewhere around 60% of American men and women do show tendencies like this. I think many people get hurt, get lonely and isolated, are selfish, and have a hard time delaying gratification. Christians do not have the concept of Karma in the sense that Buddhists or Hindus do. They seem to have more in common with the 'eye for an eye' philosophy.

 

Is it wrong to say it? Theoretically, no. Practically, it's best when it is mutual. I would venture a guess that if a man says it too soon it feels that a) we owe them love in return b) that they want something from us or c) that they are bulls***ting us cause they don't really know us. They may say they love you, but like you said, it is often only until the good feeling goes. People don't see people for who they really are - they see what they want to see. People hear 'I love you' from parents who leave or who said they loved their spouses, but left them too. They get step-brothers and sisters that come and go with divorce. Perhaps on some level they believe that love=bulls***, unhappiness, lies and abandonment.

 

Why do they complain that men are not open with their feelings? Lots of men are, but show it in different ways. Interesting brain scan 'evidence' that men do not process their thoughts as fluently with the emotional parts of their brains the way that women do. Women 'relate', men 'think'.

 

2) A guy and a girl meet. Guy is interested, asks for the girl's number and she gives it to him. They date, wine and dine, go to movies, games, have dinners, sleep together. Then when the guy says "I Love You" the woman gets all worked up - "Oh my God... this guy just slept with me once and he is already in love with me. Guess tomorrow he will even ask me to marry him" and she runs. Can u please tell when "exactly" or at what stage of dating do u actually fall in love?? And of course why do women then complain that men are afraid to commit?

**** To many people sex is sex and not much more. Sometimes people get involved too soon to know the depths of another's feelings (or are not seeing the partner as anything other personal gratification) or - they can't keep up the facade and run. But this doesn't always happen. At what stage do people fall in love? It seems to go in 3 month increments. At 3 months people have the infatuation stage and this is usually when people 'confess' their 'love'. It's fun, they have things in common - aesthetics. After 6 months, they start seeing more of what the other person really is like and decide whether they really love him enough to start trusting with their real selves a little bit at a time. Many breakups occur at this stage. If it lasts past that - say to 9 months, they start getting a bit more comfortable and trusting with each other. Sometimes people lose the facade they've been fronting and serious discrepancies between the first 3 months and 'now' are apparent and people break up. Otherwise a mental, physical and emotional compatibility is being established. After 12 months basic compatibility is pretty much established. A routine can develop and you can start to evaluate whether you are truly compatible about serious things: like how to handle major differences of opinion and respect, how to handle conflict, how to handle finances, what goals are, etc. Many incompatibilities are found between 1-3 years that prevent people from going further into a relationship. Things that make you lose respect for one another. But - a lot of people have already married by this time. Ooppss. Here comes another divorce.

 

So, that's my opinion. I'm sure others will post a different perspective. That is what makes LS so interesting.

 

It's not just 2 questions.. was it?

 

***Hmm. You think? Was my reply what you expected or very different from Indian relationships?

[noclobber]

WOW!!!!!!! Right On, Right On..

 

What a clear explanation.. only wish i knew all these things some 5 years ago. cud have saved me lot of heart-aches.. but anyway, its never too late!

 

Regarding the Indian culture, yup, u can ask that question to any of the Indians working with u. Just ask one of the women.. "hey i know that u have been married for x years.. if u feel that ur husband doesn't love u anymore wud u leave him?".

 

I want to tell a little bit more about myself. I love American culture and very much want to get married to an American woman. Its b'cos of this that my hopes got raised when I met the woman that i had talked about in this thread. As u know the story she told she has "on again, off again" boyfriend. Can u give me a clear explanation of what it exactly means? we r still continuing as friends.. i have a quick question regarding coming across as being desperate and needy. she and i travel together to work.. since tuesday afternoon i haven't heard from her... this is very unusual of her.. i just sent her a text message yesterday morning and no reply yet. my question is now about the balance.. i am kinda concerned about her but wud i be going over-board if i tried to call / text her again? i am wondering whether i wud come across as me being disinterested or "don't care about you" if i don't call her and ask what's going on... what do u think?

[megabit15]

WOW!!!!!!! Right On, Right On..

 

What a clear explanation.. only wish i knew all these things some 5 years ago. cud have saved me lot of heart-aches.. but anyway, its never too late!

 

Regarding the Indian culture, yup, u can ask that question to any of the Indians working with u. Just ask one of the women.. "hey i know that u have been married for x years.. if u feel that ur husband doesn't love u anymore wud u leave him?".

 

I want to tell a little bit more about myself. I love American culture and very much want to get married to an American woman. Its b'cos of this that my hopes got raised when I met the woman that i had talked about in this thread. As u know the story she told she has "on again, off again" boyfriend. Can u give me a clear explanation of what it exactly means? we r still continuing as friends.. i have a quick question regarding coming across as being desperate and needy. she and i travel together to work.. since tuesday afternoon i haven't heard from her... this is very unusual of her.. i just sent her a text message yesterday morning and no reply yet. my question is now about the balance.. i am kinda concerned about her but wud i be going over-board if i tried to call / text her again? i am wondering whether i wud come across as me being disinterested or "don't care about you" if i don't call her and ask what's going on... what do u think?

I personally think someone who dates 'on and off again' is waiting for something better to come along or doesn't want to be too close to anyone. Your particular friend sounds like she does not want too much closeness - she's on again off again in a LDR. She tells you about it to keep you at a distance. She keeps going with the other guy at a distance. She doesn't answer text messages right away

 

Regarding text messaging her again: Sometimes letting someone miss you for a while is better than pursuit, especially with someone who does not want too much closeness to begin with. A friend can respect another's need for space. But realize that should you get romantically involved with her at a later time (don't know if that is a hidden desire of yours), her behaviour pattern will generally continue.

 

People's actions over time speak for themselves. It is hard when people send mixed messages, but what mixed messages do tell you is that a person is conflicted. In this context it is not really a mixed message at all. When people are certain about something, they usually act on it. When they aren't (for whatever reason) - delay, confusion and mixed messages.

[noclobber]

I am getting the message

 

I won't text/email/call her again... i sent her exactly 1 text message, that's it. now i will just wait for her to reply.

 

u had talked about my hidden desires... i want to be frank with u and say that i really do like this woman. it's just the she seems conflicted now.. but that's fine with me, i have my emotions and feelings well under control

[alphamale]

I want to tell a little bit more about myself. I love American culture and very much want to get married to an American woman.

good luck NOCLOBBER...you'll need it. If you want to marry a fat and ugly american female there should be no problem. if you want a good looking and skinny and educated american female then you better be either: 1) very attractive yourself, or 2) have a lot of money or a great job (i.e. physician). Or both 1 and 2 would be even better.

 

Most of the desi dudes i've seen are married to fat and ugly american women and the few desi dudes who are married to good looking ones are doctors.

 

Myself, I have been living in the US since I was seven yrs old so I have seen a lot.

[loony]

1) very attractive yourself

Being attractive alone won't get him far with the educated woman. Oh wait, all women are stupid anyway.

[noclobber]

Thanx for your wishes Alpha

 

The woman i talked about in this thread (the one hanging out with me now) is skinny, beautiful, has an MBA, and works as a Product Manager

[alphamale]

Thanx for your wishes Alpha

you're welcome...

 

The woman i talked about in this thread (the one hanging out with me now) is skinny, beautiful, has an MBA, and works as a Product Manager

right...and she has no romantic interest in you at all. what do you have to offer her?

[noclobber]

she has no romantic interest in you at all.

 

that's fine. the forum members already explained it clearly. i am not expecting her to be interested in me as well. i am just hanging out with her, that's it. i don't expect anything else to happen..

 

what do you have to offer her?

 

right! i really don't have much to offer.. i am from a middle class family in India. i completed my Master's and am now working in SFO. that's about it. i am not extremely attractive nor am i rich. but i don't care..

[Mary3]

Whats SFO ?

[noclobber]

SFO - San Francisco

[Mary3]

Thanks alot

[noclobber]

My pleasure Mary3..

 

Now u know where to find me

[Mary3]

I have seen that SFO somewhere else and wanted to know what it meant thanks again

[jaye]

Being attractive alone won't get him far with the educated woman. Oh wait, all women are stupid anyway.

I kinda have to agree with you i'll just change that "all women" to "most women"

[noclobber]

ok guys,

 

most of u wud have forgotten this story.. but nevertheless wanted to give an update.

 

so around a month ago i find out that she has a long-distance boyfriend and got so frustrated. 'cos she never ever mentioned about that guy, not once.. and when i casually asked her she said she is in an "on again/ off again" relationship. whatever... i just continued to hang-out with her but without any expectations of becoming her lover...

 

off late i got the vibes that she was getting close to me.. and then on wednesday she said she broke-up with her boyfriend via email. now her touching has slightly increased, she is giving compliments...

 

i dunno what to do.. i have absolutely no idea of what i am supposed to do with a woman that has just broken up with her BF. never been in that situation before. i dunno what emotions women have after a breakup. any suggestions?

[loony]

I kinda have to agree with you i'll just change that "all women" to "most women"

Gotta love a smart man like you...

[noclobber]

Gotta love a smart man like you...

 

loony can u plz provide some suggestions related to my update

[loony]

loony can u plz provide some suggestions related to my update

Um...

 

I think she's a wacko... She seems to be instable, doesn't know what she wants and gets way too touchy-feely with people who are just her friends. Are you still in love with her? Then stay away. It doesn't matter if she likes you now or not, this girl looks like a real mess and she will mess you up, too. One moment hot, the next moment cool like an iceberg.

 

If you're not in love with her anymore and don't mind some fun, let her do the next steps. Be cool, this should spark her interest even more. Let her do the approach. But don't fall for her, because I strongly doubt that she will fall for you. She needs some attention, some affection, some ego stroking, but I kind of doubt that she wants you as her boyfriend. You'll get some loving, she'll get some loving, but I wouldn't expect anything long-lasting and stable from it.

 

Personally, I think you should stay away from her. You're not really a player and she looks like trouble for any nice guy... Save yourself the heartache and the brooding about her feelings for you.

[noclobber]

Um...

 

I think she's a wacko... She seems to be instable, doesn't know what she wants and gets way too touchy-feely with people who are just her friends. Are you still in love with her? Then stay away. It doesn't matter if she likes you now or not, this girl looks like a real mess and she will mess you up, too. One moment hot, the next moment cool like an iceberg.

 

If you're not in love with her anymore and don't mind some fun, let her do the next steps. Be cool, this should spark her interest even more. Let her do the approach. But don't fall for her, because I strongly doubt that she will fall for you. She needs some attention, some affection, some ego stroking, but I kind of doubt that she wants you as her boyfriend. You'll get some loving, she'll get some loving, but I wouldn't expect anything long-lasting and stable from it.

 

Personally, I think you should stay away from her. You're not really a player and she looks like trouble for any nice guy... Save yourself the heartache and the brooding about her feelings for you.

 

Thanx much loony

 

i am now evaluating my feelings for her... i dunno what i shud do.. she has already given some hints.. touching.. complimenting.. guess for now i will just be cold and see how she reacts.. that wud give me time to know my own feelings for her...