Down the rabbit hole

[Aloha123]

Although, in fairness, I think Mark may be the exception rather than the rule in terms of having genuine feelings for and attachment to the OW, as is evidenced by how few MM seek out these forums to begin with, and we hardly see any posts from MM about how miserable and desperate and head over heels in love with the OW they are. It just doesn't really get to them in the same way, either during the affair or during the "break-up".

[bmh]

Mark did you have a DDAY? Planned or otherwise? Sorry if I missed that in one of your post.

[Turning point]

... and maybe I’m keeping him as my back up plan and not the other way around.

 

..sure, and as reliable as your neighbor's car being your backup transportation.

 

Girl, you gotta go find your own ride.

[darkbloom]

I’m working on it and growing.

 

To be fair, if MM knew of this board I’m sure he’d be the one on here lamenting his love for the OW. He tells me he loves me, not everyday but often enough that it freaks me out. I’ve never said ILY or told him that I loved him. He says this is a major source of insecurity for him. He tells me how he feels and talks about his feelings a lot. I’m more stoic and less emotional so I’ve never told him how I feel. I also don’t think I can say ILY you while he’s married to someone else. I don’t like his wife, but she does deserve better than this.

 

He called me a few times last week while he was in Vegas. Tried to book me a ticket to meet him there but I refused. I blocked him on Friday because I was feeling stronger and over this OW role. I must be insane because I keep doing the same thing over and over again.

 

I’ve stepped up my workouts and have been throwing myself into work to keep distracted. If you are exhausted, you have less time and energy to stress about MM.

[mark clemson]

@bmh - No, no D-day yet. Believe my risk of an unintentional one is low for a variety of reasons, including basically no physical/electronic traces.

 

 

Although, in fairness, I think Mark may be the exception rather than the rule in terms of having genuine feelings for and attachment to the OW, as is evidenced by how few MM seek out these forums to begin with, and we hardly see any posts from MM about how miserable and desperate and head over heels in love with the OW they are. It just doesn't really get to them in the same way, either during the affair or during the "break-up".

 

@Aloha - A good point. I think men also may process their emotions differently with less of a tendency to reach out and to verbalize (including in writing). So it may be less visible.

 

It's worth pointing out -and I hope this doesn't bother you or anyone else, I just think it's true - that men can deeply love someone (including the physical part) and then gradually fall out of love or be less in love, but continue to be very interested in the sex aspect. And so possibly in the case of MMs/OMs, they may continue or attempt to maintain an A that used to be much more emotional for that purpose.

[stillafool]

Hi friends,

 

I am looking for the strength to go NC with my MM. We have always been friends before- we started our A before he got married. After his wedding, I cut all contact with him for over a year. He would reach out and I wouldn’t respond. After the death of my father, I reached out to him just to see how he was doing. We resumed our EA although I refuse to meet in person because I won’t go back to being in a physical affair while he’s married. Thing have limped along ever since. He says he loves me and that if I say we can be together he will do it. Unlike a lot of the MM on here, he’s never lied to me about his wife. They have a great relationship and there are no major issues other than that he’s in love with me. I can’t tell him that I want to be with him because I don’t think I can handle the pressure if he ends his M for me. He also wants marriage and kids which I do not want and can’t provide him. He says he will give up on those dreams if we can be together. I think that’s too much pressure on a new relationship. He’s been in IC for the last six months to deal with his issues and to sort himself out. We’ve both ended it a few times but it’s never stuck. After a few weeks he breaks down and contacts me.

 

 

This is very confusing. If he was in love with you why didn't he ask you to marry him instead of her? And if he is in love with you why is he married to another woman in a marriage that is just has "no issues"? What was the point of him doing that? His wife deserves to know the truth so she can do better than him.

[darkbloom]

This is very confusing. If he was in love with you why didn't he ask you to marry him instead of her? And if he is in love with you why is he married to another woman in a marriage that is just has "no issues"? What was the point of him doing that? His wife deserves to know the truth so she can do better than him.

 

He did ask me to marry him. I said no. I don’t want to be married or have children ever. MM wants marriage and kids. I wouldn’t say their marriage has no issues. I knew his W before I met him so I know a bit more about her and their relationship than I should. I agree on her knowing the truth-she lives a lie and ifs not fair to her

[bmh]

I tend to agree that most married men don’t really LOVE the OW. Based on the information above, idk that your situation is so black and white. You have to wonder if he didn’t “settle” for his wife because he couldn’t have you. That makes this already sad situation even worse IMO. I’m sure that makes the NC even harder to achieve.

 

I hate to think his wife has been living a lie their ENTIRE marriage.

Edited March 26, 2019 by bmh

[darkbloom]

I tend to agree that most married men don’t really LOVE the OW. Based on the information above, idk that your situation is so black and white. You have to wonder if he didn’t “settle” for his wife because he couldn’t have you. That makes this already sad situation even worse IMO. I’m sure that makes the NC even harder to achieve.

 

I hate to think his wife has been living a lie their ENTIRE marriage.

 

I tend to agree with you that most OM don’t love their OW or they love them to the extent that they can get what they want from them. I’ve cut off all physical contact with MM since before he was married. Their entire engagement/marriage was a sham. I do believe he’s settled for his wife but TBH I don’t think she’s a very nice person and she’s wildly insecure. I say this from knowing her before the marriage, if anything, the marriage has made her feel slightly more secure and like a badge of honor. She brags about how proud she is of his accomplishments etc when she has nothing to do with them. He also shares them with me before he shares them with her and that is rough. I think things would have ended up differently if I said yes to the proposal or if we met at a different time. I don’t blame him for not leaving his wife. She checks off all the boxes of what he’s looking for out of life. I meet none of the boxes and yet he can’t help how he feels about me. NC is hard because he’s not a bad person. He’s just stuck in a very unfortunate situation that I don’t envy. I cannot imagine picking between a secure wife with similar goals and me.

[darkbloom]

Just an update.

 

I blocked him for a week. Unblocked him. We’ve been chatting but not like before. He’s upset that I don’t ask how’s he’s doing and don’t ask questions about him. It’s true I don’t, I’ve been trying to detach and have been giving a lot of disinterested one word answers. He says I’m being selfish which is ironic. I asked him what he wants from me. And silence.

 

Am I just hanging on to him until something better comes along? Why do I not keep him blocked? What is my problem?????? Is there a rehab you can check into to detox from a person and not a drug? I’m so tired of the hamster wheel and yet here I am. Maybe I think I don’t deserve better than this?

[Abetterme]

@darkbloom - Your last paragraph would make me laugh, if it didn’t make me cry...only because I understand that feeling so well. I think what I’ve come to see in so many of these threads and for myself is that it will only stop when the hurt just becomes too much. I wish there was an easy answer for what that threshold is or you could snap your fingers and be done. It isn’t easy.

 

You have done it, and I know you can again. If detaching slowly is helping you get back to that end...it is worth a shot. How did you stop contact previously? Was it similar? Can you remember how long it took you to start feeling better? Maybe if you can look at it that way it won’t feel as daunting.

 

Thinking of you :-)

[pepperbird]

I'm sorry, but I find this whole situation ridiculous. It really, really REALLY is.

 

 

I really believe more OW and OM need to start being a lot more honest with themselves. He doesn't love you. He doesn't love his wife. He only loves himself.

 

How do I know this? No one who really loved you would ask you to go through what he's tacitly asked you to go through, and he wouldn't ask his wife either. He'd have to have the IQ and EQ of a frying pan to not know this is hurting you, yet he doesn't care.

 

If he truly loved you, he would let you go, even if it hurt him to do it. He wouldn't be clinging to you like some slimy piece of seaweed clings to a rock. How much more of your precious time are you going to spend being his "toy" that he can put on the shelf until the next time he wants to play? You are better than that!

 

Add to this that he is a proven liar. Don't believe me? Every day he lies to his wife. He looks her right in the eye and lies. Madam, you are no different.

 

You say he wants to be married and have kids? Great. A dad who's cheating sounds like great father material.

 

 

 

If you still need help detaching from him, try this exercise. Picture your life a year from now, five years from now, ten years form now? What do you want it to look like? Do you want to be exactly where you are right now, or do you want to move on to bigger and better things? So long as you stay with him. he'll continue to be the albatross around your neck.

 

 

If going cold turkey is to hard, try breaking it down into smaller pieces. Make a list of the days ahead and on each, write down one small way you will detach from him. Stick to that list. Have a good friend you can trust support you IRL. That way, if you need help or a shoulder to cry on right away, you can get immediate help.

 

Our time in the world is so limited, and it goes by so fast. Don't waste one more of precious day on this jerk.

[preraph]

But being loyal, truthful and faithful aren't among their good qualities, so they're not really long-term relationship material. You won't convert them from who they are. You'd never be able to trust him.

 

Thank you for your honest replies. I am trying to grow and I (hope) I’m not making excuses for MM or myself. As someone who has been cheated on and currently being the OW I have both perspectives on this. If you would have asked me 5 years ago if I thought cheating was bad and that cheaters are horrible people I would have said yes. I only ever saw things as black or white. Age and time had given me perspective on things.

 

There is A LOT of infidelity happening in the world (not just on these boards) and I think it’s intetesting to open up conversation for the why behind it.

 

If MM were all horrible people we wouldn’t have anything to do with them. They have good qualities and enough good qualities that their wives married them. Again for the people in the back, I’m not excusing their lying or their actions. But I think a lot of us end up over our heads in something that wasn’t intentional. We make bad choices and justify those bad choices because we are in over our heads. In the case of my MM, I think he doesn’t want to hurt anyone (either wife or me) but his inaction is an action. And it’s causing pain and hurt on both sides.

 

 

I havent reached out or responded to him. I’m still emotionally on 0. I don’t know how I ended up here but I’m trying to get off this roller coaster.

[mark clemson]

Am I just hanging on to him until something better comes along? Why do I not keep him blocked? What is my problem?????? Is there a rehab you can check into to detox from a person and not a drug? I’m so tired of the hamster wheel and yet here I am. Maybe I think I don’t deserve better than this?

 

 

Think you said you were in IC, if not that would be the "rehab". Suggest turning him back off as soon as you can bring yourself to do it. Maybe this LC is your taper off opportunity, as mentioned.

 

You want someone better (rightfully) but the longer you stick with him the longer that takes. If you're like most people you really need to be fully over him to be emotionally ready for someone else, no? No point in staying stuck for another year...

[Turning point]

He did ask me to marry him. I said no. I don’t want to be married or have children ever. MM wants marriage and kids.

 

This really isn't about him is it?

 

His wife gave him what you wouldn't and now you're just hell bent on ruining it for her?

 

I think you're actually right where you want to be. You said NO. What you really meant was: 'no, I enjoy the power of the chase." His wife changed the balance of power and I think she's the real reason you're still in this.

[darkbloom]

This really isn't about him is it?

 

His wife gave him what you wouldn't and now you're just hell bent on ruining it for her?

 

I think you're actually right where you want to be. You said NO. What you really meant was: 'no, I enjoy the power of the chase." His wife changed the balance of power and I think she's the real reason you're still in this.

 

I would say no. I actually want MM to stay married to his wife. Even though I’m not her biggest fan, I think she’s good for him and can provide him what he needs. I’m struggling with letting the friendship part of it go with him. Even if he were single, I couldn’t get past the cheating and the lies to be in an actual relationship with him. I would say we are solidly in an EA but I refuse to meet up with him or have anything sexual to do with him since he got married. That doesn’t make the situation better, but I’m actively trying to break away and do no more harm to his wife.

 

I would say before this that I had pretty healthy boundaries. I know now that I didn’t and I hadn’t really been tested before. I am still pretty young and naive and I thought we were just friends and what’s the worst that could really happen? I’m not saying this as an excuse, but just how I got in the rabbit hole to begin with. It’s pretty dark when you are in it and there’s a ton of mental gymnastics happening to convince yourself that it’s fine and you are happy in the darkness. I was able to pull myself out once but I tumbled down a little farther this last time. I know it’s better in the light, I’ve just convinced myself that the darkness is fine and us still talking doesn’t hurt anyone (spoiler alert it hurts everyone.) I know these things, it’s just been a little harder for me to stick to NC this time and I’ve been struggling. He’s not doing this to me, I’m doing it to myself.

[Turning point]

You never want to marry anyone - and yet, as soon as this guy marries someone else you can't let go of him. It seems to me you are either using or abusing his wife - not the married man. She's the one who will make sure you can't actually have him, and you're the one who will never let her win. I think you are exactly where you want to be and will remain there. Getting out doesn't suit you at all.

[Turning point]

“The most painful thing is losing yourself in the process of loving someone too much, and forgetting that you are special too.”

 

What strikes me about your situation is that you speak secondarily about his wife, a sympathetic creature who is "good for him" yet, not special enough to provide what you can. For yourself, you appear to equate being special with being unattainable - hence you'll marry no one, and remain a cut above his wife.

 

Just my $0.02 worth of food for thought. I believe that what binds you in this triangle is the wife not the MM. It is in the wife that you find reason to be special.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Turning point

[darkbloom]

What strikes me about your situation is that you speak secondarily about his wife, a sympathetic creature who is "good for him" yet, not special enough to provide what you can. For yourself, you appear to equate being special with being unattainable - hence you'll marry no one, and remain a cut above his wife.

 

Just my $0.02 worth of food for thought. I believe that what binds you in this triangle is the wife not the MM. It is in the wife that you find reason to be special.

 

I appreciate your thoughts on this. I’ll try to keep an open mind but I’ve been in the same social circle as his wife for a decade now. She doesn’t really do anything for me good or bad. The only thing that she has provided is MM. Not sure whether that’s good or bad. ( There are a few things that bother me about her as a person but nothing to do with MM. Just her flippant racism and talking down about people that she thinks are lower class than she is) These things annoyed me about her long before she was dating MM and she was engaged to someone else. But I digress. MM wants marriage and kids—I was up front and honest with him that I will never have those things with him or anyone. I think he really does love his wife and I think the marriage and the potential for kids fills a need for him. I am not trying to play his wife or compete with her in anyway—i wouldn’t marry MM even if they were not together.

 

I say this as someone who has thought long and hard about this, marriage and children are not for me. I think MM and I have a great friendship and bond but no common life goals which is why we were never going to be together ever. I rarely think of his wife, which makes me sound horrible. The only time I see her is in the occasional social media post but I don’t feel jealousy or envy or hate or anything for her. She’s just there.

 

I think i just want the friendship I have with MM to be with a different person. If his personality were in a single persons body it would make this situation a lot easier.