Women: Never tell men they are great and they will find a great girl someday

[brigit87]

I call bs.

 

1. No one can make her laugh. Two men can tell the same joke and she’ll laugh at one abdbe offended by the guy who isn’t hot.

2. You better be hot or you’ll be branded a creep if you do that

3. Same as 2 except you’ll be throwing away thousands of dollars.

4. No room for error here unless your hot

5. More of your money down the drain

 

If she chose to go on a date with you I'm assuming there was a certain level of attraction to begin with.

[ZA Dater]

1. Make her laugh

2. Tell her she's pretty

3. Walk around stores if she sees something she likes buy it and say "you're beautiful you should have this."

4. Don't ask too many questions

4. Don't ask to split the bill

 

(That is a good start.)

 

 

 

Good to know and good to measure myself against those. The question is how many of these does the OP manage? If he does what happens on those date?

[hotpotato]

You may be great, you may be awesome, but you were not right FOR THEM.

 

So, I guess one and trash is another man's treasure? Frankly, people should stop saying it. It's illogical and patronising.

[Mike800]

I am going to impart this piece of advice on you. Quite clearly you have an apparently superiority complex while at the same time having a clear inferiority complex against so called "bad boys". All you accomplish with this is creating a hugely negative impression. Why do this?

 

 

Why categorise people like you do? People find this very off putting. By all means declare you don't like a certain person but you cannot paint them all with the same brush nor should you ever.

 

 

My question to you, do you treat a waitron differently to a CEO? For all your apparent education you are putting forward a very emotive point of view and ignoring facts, you cannot win ANYONE over being bitter and I should know I was the CEO of that club for a long time.

 

 

Your dismissive comment about in bold is indicative of an entitled attitude and while I am not easily offended I find that comment to lack class, if this is how you conduct yourself then you need to look at yourself closely. There is huge value to be unlocked by a friends, why because you aren't alone, you can talk about things and be free of judgement.

 

 

Remember one thing, you cannot throw back at me "you are a while guy you have options" because I would guess you enjoy more success at dating than I do.

 

 

I get why you are irritated and see the world through such bitter cynical eyes but its simply not so, when someone who hasn't ever been laid tells you that then you should sit up and take notice.

 

 

We can control much in life but the most important thing is how we treat others, trust me when you look around you and find the value in people you might find being single is a bit more tolerable. I have one special person in life, she wont ever date me but she gives me 90% of what I imagine a GF would and I don't see that as much of a compromise.

 

 

Friend you need to take a break, rationalise things and look at things freshly you may see they aren't quite as you see them now.

 

I 100 percent agree women friends can be extremely valuable..I’d advise him to get as many as possible it helps immensely trust me.

 

I understand his mindset a little though I was not as bad as him but in a rut years ago and being friends with women you get feelings for who doesn’t have feelings for you can be soul crushing especially if you have to see her with other men.

 

Also when you’re struggling with women and down on yourself being friends with them can be a reminder that no matter how much women like you as a person they still aren’t attracted enough to want to be with you.

 

I’m not saying this is the right thing to think or a healthy mindset but I’ve been there before..he needs to find a way out of that mindset but I see how it builds.

[EthanBlack]

1. Make her laugh

2. Tell her she's pretty

3. Walk around stores if she sees something she likes buy it and say "you're beautiful you should have this."

4. Don't ask too many questions

4. Don't ask to split the bill

 

(That is a good start.)

 

Checked all of the above with girls I've been on dates with. Again, this sounds fine on paper but in the real world and in practice, it's a totally different story.

 

Two guys can check the above but the girl is gonna end up with the guy she's already attracted to begin with. In other words, one's fate has already been decided.

[EthanBlack]

 

I get what you say, it is incredibly irritating when guys who offer nothing get all the success, I know quite a few such guys but how they deal with their lives is beyond your scope of influence, what you do with yours is directly under your control. Have you ever taken these guys on intellectually in front of their supposed chosen girls? It doesn't win you the game but there is some pride to be taken at showing these sorts of guys up and you will win respect.

 

Taken them on intellectually? What does that mean exactly? Do you mean do I stand up for myself in front of them? ALWAYS. I'm not a pushover. But one needs to be given reason to do that.

 

In the specific case above, I ditched both my friend AND the girl. Essentially, losing who I thought was a good friend and a girl who I had a lot in common with.

 

He tried apologizing to me and said he didn't want to lose our friendship but I was too hurt and angry. In retrospect, if I were in his shoes, I probably would have done the same thing. Also, he IS attractive. I didn't mean to badmouth him. I've seen his exes and they're all generally pretty girls cause he's a tall, dark, handsome guy.

 

And I guess my whole point is that looks do matter. Even if you have a good rapport with a girl and tons of things in common, sometimes a connection isn't enough because things like magnetic physical attraction is just too powerful and seductive.

 

In my case, being a short Asian guy, magnetic physical attraction just isn't gonna work for me. For a girl to be attracted to me, I need to build a connection but sometimes a tall, handsome guy can just come along and "sweep her off her feet."

 

When girls give advice about how to attract them, they're all envisioning a guy THEY ARE ALREADY PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED TO doing those things.

[EthanBlack]

I 100 percent agree women friends can be extremely valuable..I’d advise him to get as many as possible it helps immensely trust me.

 

I understand his mindset a little though I was not as bad as him but in a rut years ago and being friends with women you get feelings for who doesn’t have feelings for you can be soul crushing especially if you have to see her with other men.

 

Also when you’re struggling with women and down on yourself being friends with them can be a reminder that no matter how much women like you as a person they still aren’t attracted enough to want to be with you.

 

I’m not saying this is the right thing to think or a healthy mindset but I’ve been there before..he needs to find a way out of that mindset but I see how it builds.

 

What mindset should I adopt? Everyone keeps telling me my main problem is my negative attitude. I admit I have a negative attitude. Who wouldn't? I give you guys concrete examples from my own life of why I have this negative attitude.

 

It's clear in these cases that it was looks that won over personality/connection/chemistry but I keep hearing from you guys that it's not about looks.

 

So what's the mindset I should adopt?

 

And as for keeping these people in my life like in the example above where my friend got the girl, **** that. Once **** like that happens, they're outta my life. I'm not the nice guy pushover doormat whose gonna stand around and be their shoulder to cry on.

[EthanBlack]

If she chose to go on a date with you I'm assuming there was a certain level of attraction to begin with.

 

No, sometimes she's vanilla to you. She doesn't find you repulsive but she's not attracted to you either. She's going on a date with you just to see what happens but more likely, she has no better plans and is bored.

 

Let me ask you this. When you give advice like this to guys, do you honestly think this **** works? Or are you envisioning a guy you are already physically attracted to doing those things?

 

What if a guy you're not attracted to like me (short, 5'5, Asian guy) doing these things? Is that gonna make you attracted towards me versus some taller, white guy with a nice smile?

[brigit87]

No, sometimes she's vanilla to you. She doesn't find you repulsive but she's not attracted to you either. She's going on a date with you just to see what happens but more likely, she has no better plans and is bored.

 

Let me ask you this. When you give advice like this to guys, do you honestly think this **** works? Or are you envisioning a guy you are already physically attracted to doing those things?

 

What if a guy you're not attracted to like me (short, 5'5, Asian guy) doing these things? Is that gonna make you attracted towards me versus some taller, white guy with a nice smile?

 

That's a good question and I'll try to answer it honestly.

 

If I have two men treating me equally good I would pick the one I'm more attracted to.

 

I do like tall men so guys under 6ft never really had a chance with me. But that is only because I was lucky enough in the genetic pool to attract a very good looking quality guy. Remember Ethan, I'm both book and street smart and never paid for a date. Also, I grew up in a different time that you. I was dating in the 90's. Men spent lots of money taking me out. Not all of them...but a lot.

 

I've said this tons of times if you try for girls...like me...you're gonna fail. Because girls like me (although crazy at times and very dramatic) have lots of choices. You need to find where you fit in and what you can have. Everyone has limitations. If my dream was to be a mathematician I'd fail miserably. My math skills suck.

[elaine567]

Most guys and girls have people who are attracted to them. Most find their level (age, class, intelligence, upbringing, education, wealth etc.) so when someone suitable shows a lot of interest most are over the moon.

 

Trouble occurs when those naturally attracted are not deemed "good enough" and the chase is then on to convince those not naturally attracted to go against their natural instincts.

Chaos, failure and depression then ensues.

 

You can choose to push against open doors and experience success, or you can keep pushing against locked ones...

[EthanBlack]

That's a good question and I'll try to answer it honestly.

 

If I have two men treating me equally good I would pick the one I'm more attracted to.

 

I do like tall men so guys under 6ft never really had a chance with me. But that is only because I was lucky enough in the genetic pool to attract a very good looking quality guy. Remember Ethan, I'm both book and street smart and never paid for a date. Also, I grew up in a different time that you. I was dating in the 90's. Men spent lots of money taking me out. Not all of them...but a lot.

 

I've said this tons of times if you try for girls...like me...you're gonna fail. Because girls like me (although crazy at times and very dramatic) have lots of choices. You need to find where you fit in and what you can have. Everyone has limitations. If my dream was to be a mathematician I'd fail miserably. My math skills suck.

 

Most guys and girls have people who are attracted to them. Most find their level (age, class, intelligence, upbringing, education, wealth etc.) so when someone suitable shows a lot of interest most are over the moon.

 

Trouble occurs when those naturally attracted are not deemed "good enough" and the chase is then on to convince those not naturally attracted to go against their natural instincts.

Chaos, failure and depression then ensues.

 

You can choose to push against open doors and experience success, or you can keep pushing against locked ones...

 

Ok question for the both of you based upon what was said above:

 

So why are guys like me given dating advice from everywhere to pursue my passions, live an interesting life and try to create some kind of rapport/connection with girls? According to what you just said (which I agree with btw), it's all for nothing. A girl is either gonna like me due to some weird combination of my looks+personality+circumstance and not because I am living my life to the fullest and that I have all these impressive skills or that I am financially in a good place.

[Garcon1986]

If you want to really try for the most attractive women available consider seeing an escort near you, if you really want to have the experience. But Brigit87 is right, women who are blessed with winning the genetic lottery are also looking for the complete package, the tall, dark, handsome, guy with lots of resources. They will pass over short Asian guys like you and me without a second thought, because they are being chased by endless guys. Why long after people who couldn't care less about you? You are asking for a wholesale change from an entire population about what they think is or is not attractive. That's really hard to do. Why not tell us how you are working on making your charm the best it can be?

[EthanBlack]

If you want to really try for the most attractive women available consider seeing an escort near you, if you really want to have the experience. But Brigit87 is right, women who are blessed with winning the genetic lottery are also looking for the complete package, the tall, dark, handsome, guy with lots of resources. They will pass over short Asian guys like you and me without a second thought, because they are being chased by endless guys. Why long after people who couldn't care less about you? You are asking for a wholesale change from an entire population about what they think is or is not attractive. That's really hard to do. Why not tell us how you are working on making your charm the best it can be?

 

Women like elaine and brigit are also assuming I'm always going after these attractive women who have a ton of guys chasing them. Trust me, I'm NOT. If you've seen any of my exes or any of the girls I've dated in the past, they don't fit that profile. But they're not the obese women you see working at your local diner or at mcdonalds either.

 

I'm not delusional. Just because I make a good living, professional, have cool hobbies, kind, generous, and a good overall guy doesn't hide the fact that I have flaws and many of those flaws are physical ones that I cannot control such as being short and Asian. Being somewhat introverted (although still personable and social) and having a negative attitude (due to my experiences) doesn't help either.

 

What's more, a lot of the advice guys give on this forum are also assuming that delusion, mainly because I think they're delusional themselves.

[elaine567]

Ok question for the both of you based upon what was said above:

 

So why are guys like me given dating advice from everywhere to pursue my passions, live an interesting life and try to create some kind of rapport/connection with girls?

 

Because that is basic level stuff.

That is just being a decent, well rounded, interesting human being.

Having other interests and hobbies usually improves social skills too, something that is often lacking in people who struggle...

Being able to chat to girls is also somewhat necessary...

[Mike800]

Ok question for the both of you based upon what was said above:

 

So why are guys like me given dating advice from everywhere to pursue my passions, live an interesting life and try to create some kind of rapport/connection with girls? According to what you just said (which I agree with btw), it's all for nothing. A girl is either gonna like me due to some weird combination of my looks+personality+circumstance and not because I am living my life to the fullest and that I have all these impressive skills or that I am financially in a good place.

 

No offense to any of the women here but the ones you’re responding to don’t strike as the most emotionally healthy women..Most people man or women don’t just go for the best looking person they can find regardless of options.

 

Just work on being the best version of yourself and things will fall into place but please stop being so negative.Youve been with women before so I don’t see why you’re so gloom and doom. It seems to me you’re obsessed with not being “ideal” who cares? Do you want to find a women for you or do you just want mainstream validation?

[ZA Dater]

Taken them on intellectually? What does that mean exactly? Do you mean do I stand up for myself in front of them? ALWAYS. I'm not a pushover. But one needs to be given reason to do that.

 

In the specific case above, I ditched both my friend AND the girl. Essentially, losing who I thought was a good friend and a girl who I had a lot in common with.

 

He tried apologizing to me and said he didn't want to lose our friendship but I was too hurt and angry. In retrospect, if I were in his shoes, I probably would have done the same thing. Also, he IS attractive. I didn't mean to badmouth him. I've seen his exes and they're all generally pretty girls cause he's a tall, dark, handsome guy.

 

And I guess my whole point is that looks do matter. Even if you have a good rapport with a girl and tons of things in common, sometimes a connection isn't enough because things like magnetic physical attraction is just too powerful and seductive.

 

In my case, being a short Asian guy, magnetic physical attraction just isn't gonna work for me. For a girl to be attracted to me, I need to build a connection but sometimes a tall, handsome guy can just come along and "sweep her off her feet."

 

When girls give advice about how to attract them, they're all envisioning a guy THEY ARE ALREADY PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED TO doing those things.

 

 

Use what you have intellectually. You can make those guys look pretty silly by being smarter than them. It wont always get you the girl but you will win her respect which for you might be a springboard for more.

 

 

Assert yourself in conversation that's what I am saying.

 

 

Looks do matter BUT you wont always start behind that white guy, I am physically speaking one of those guys and I loose out to tubby chubby guys because they have the charisma I don't have.

[elaine567]

Women like elaine and brigit are also assuming I'm always going after these attractive women who have a ton of guys chasing them. Trust me, I'm NOT. If you've seen any of my exes or any of the girls I've dated in the past, they don't fit that profile. But they're not the obese women you see working at your local diner or at mcdonalds either.

 

 

 

OK but the girl you dated and lost, you lost to a tall, dark and handsome guy so I guess she was not "unattractive", was she?

[EthanBlack]

Because that is basic level stuff.

That is just being a decent, well rounded, interesting human being.

Having other interests and hobbies usually improves social skills too, something that is often lacking in people who struggle...

Being able to chat to girls is also somewhat necessary...

 

Those homely, most average looking white guys who are dating these pretty Asian girls don't have those things. They don't do interesting stuff and have no hobbies at all. Some don't even have a JOB. Some don't even have social skills and are your classic nerds. Yet they landed hot, attractive Asian girls due to their perceived social status as white men. They would never be able to land a white girl who are of the same calibre in looks.

 

You get an accomplished, well-rounded, decent Asian guy like me. But because I am Asian and I am short, average looking Asian girls don't want me because they can get a loser white guy and average looking white girls don't like me because they can get a taller white guy.

 

Instead of trying to improve my life, I could have just stayed at home. Would have saved a lot of money not to mention a lot of effort too. Cause at the end of the day, it made no difference except maybe it made time go by faster and I did have some fun.

[elaine567]

Looks do matter BUT you wont always start behind that white guy, I am physically speaking one of those guys and I loose out to tubby chubby guys because they have the charisma I don't have.

 

 

Yes, it is not just tall male model types that women like.

The "tubby, chubby" guy with oodles of personality and who can make her laugh is usually a winner too.

[EthanBlack]

Use what you have intellectually. You can make those guys look pretty silly by being smarter than them. It wont always get you the girl but you will win her respect which for you might be a springboard for more.

 

 

Assert yourself in conversation that's what I am saying.

 

 

Looks do matter BUT you wont always start behind that white guy, I am physically speaking one of those guys and I loose out to tubby chubby guys because they have the charisma I don't have.

 

You're from South Africa, right? You should check out this youtube channel by a South African white guy who transplanted himself to China.

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/serpentza/videos

 

This is his Chinese wife:

 

Hot, huh? This guy eventually became successful in China financially but when he first arrived in China, he was pretty much down on his luck.

 

I respect the guy because he had the guts to make such a move and he made efforts to learn Chinese and the culture. But let's be honest here, a guy like him back in South Africa, he wouldn't have been able to land a white girl who was of the same in terms of looks as his Chinese wife.

 

Chinese women see white men as high social status regardless of his actual credibility.

 

There's no way a short Asian guy like me no matter how successful I become, no matter how good of a guy I am, no matter how cool hobbies I have that can compete with that. Why? Cause I LOOK Asian and I'm short.

 

This south african guy. I mean, he's pretty good looking and tall (especially in china). He had jack **** when he came to China but he still dated a ton of Chinese girls, most of them probably pretty.

 

Again, I have respect for him because he has balls and guts so I'm not knocking him but this just gives you a little bit of what I been talking about here.

[elaine567]

Those homely, most average looking white guys who are dating these pretty Asian girls don't have those things. They don't do interesting stuff and have no hobbies at all. Some don't even have a JOB. Some don't even have social skills and are your classic nerds. Yet they landed hot, attractive Asian girls due to their perceived social status as white men. They would never be able to land a white girl who are of the same calibre in looks.

 

You get an accomplished, well-rounded, decent Asian guy like me. But because I am Asian and I am short, average looking Asian girls don't want me because they can get a loser white guy and average looking white girls don't like me because they can get a taller white guy.

 

Instead of trying to improve my life, I could have just stayed at home. Would have saved a lot of money not to mention a lot of effort too. Cause at the end of the day, it made no difference except maybe it made time go by faster and I did have some fun.

 

 

But who are these vacuous, superficial and "hot" Asian girls who want these "loser" white guys? Surely your sights need to be set a little higher no?

 

Are these really the girls you want?

[ZA Dater]

 

I've said this tons of times if you try for girls...like me...you're gonna fail. Because girls like me (although crazy at times and very dramatic) have lots of choices. You need to find where you fit in and what you can have. Everyone has limitations. If my dream was to be a mathematician I'd fail miserably. My math skills suck.

 

 

Ethan do me one favour and dismiss with this advice with the disdain it deserves. Nobody should approach anything in life like this. Life is about striving to be the best you can be and attaining the best you can, not about "oh that will do".

 

 

Your limitations are you are bitter, yes you wont be dating Katy Perry but you should strive to date someone you want, not someone you think "oh well this is the best I can do, I'll try like her".

[EthanBlack]

OK but the girl you dated and lost, you lost to a tall, dark and handsome guy so I guess she was not "unattractive", was she?

 

No, she wasn't unattractive. But calling her pretty would be a stretch. I'd say the guy was more "good looking" than her.

 

Yes, it is not just tall male model types that women like.

The "tubby, chubby" guy with oodles of personality and who can make her laugh is usually a winner too.

 

I've only seen that amongst white guy Asian girl couples. Where the guy is this fat, nerdy looking guy but I guess he's extroverted and outgoing and "funny." And the girl is this slim, pretty Asian girl who is kinda shy but absolutely worships him and looks down on all Asian men.

 

You don't see this combination amongst white guy-white girl couples.

[elaine567]

You don't see this combination amongst white guy-white girl couples.

Yes, you do. Same thing.

[ZA Dater]

Most guys and girls have people who are attracted to them. Most find their level (age, class, intelligence, upbringing, education, wealth etc.) so when someone suitable shows a lot of interest most are over the moon.

 

Trouble occurs when those naturally attracted are not deemed "good enough" and the chase is then on to convince those not naturally attracted to go against their natural instincts.

Chaos, failure and depression then ensues.

 

You can choose to push against open doors and experience success, or you can keep pushing against locked ones...

 

 

Do tell me what the bold means? I'd be fascinated to know, this sounds like stereotyping to me.

 

 

So what you are saying as guys we must just accept anyone who shows interest but ladies pick who they are interested. Ok. Cool. Understood.

 

 

I'd love to know how you classify people and how you deem them to be in your class? How do you determine this? What happens if Ethan spends his days with high powered execs, is he deemed to be in that class, does that mean he should be going after miss blond blue eyes 32c? Or should he accept the frumpy chubby shop assistant is the best he can do because she talks to him? Should he convince himself he is attracted to her?