Never thought I'd be an OW (long post)

[Artdeco]

Now this post made me laugh ?. Thank you for your enlightening take. So true. Methinks I shall adopt your approach.

 

Good points made by WOW. I second those, and I want to add that your best approach will be to live your life to the fullest in the meantime. Know you’ll be ok with or without him. The Europe trip is timed perfectly for this.

 

I ended up with MM as well, and I can relate to everything that has been said by WOW and LKK. Things took time, kids were involved, property was involved, some indecisiveness was involved, and some obstacles and family emergencies came up here and there. And quite frankly, they didn’t surprise me, not at all, and I didn’t doubt his love for me, ever. I never felt like I was being taken advantage of, or like I was the “side piece” and whatnot. In all honesty, I would’ve been more apprehensive and doubtful, if his separation/divorce had processed too smoothly and too quickly. That’s just not how things work after 20+ years. These major life decisions take time, and it doesn’t reflect poorly on a man if he actually takes the proper time to get things in order, makes sure he makes the right decision, makes sure his family is taken care of, etc. Anything else would almost be appalling.

 

Somebody said this: When any MM decides he's done - he leaves immediately and never looks back. This is such a blanket statement that couldn’t be further from the truth, unless you’re dating a moron who’s completely callous and irresponsible. Like “immediately” and “never looks back”? Seriously? How can you never look back, if you have a relationship with a person for decades? Or kids with them? That’s totally unrealistic. Or leaving immediately? How? Nobody I know who was married and decided they wanted a D moved out “immediately”. That’s not logistically feasible. Or legally. Or morally. Or from a responsibility point of view, and for many other reasons. Unless you hate your spouse, or they’re violent maybe, but even then I’d consider it ill-advised. But I digress.....

 

To bring this to a close: With all the above being said, I also have to point out that I never got involved in his divorce business / wife issues / family stuff. He also never trash talked his W, ever! And while he went through his struggles, I did my own thing, knowing he wanted to be with me, which wasn’t always possible. But I knew he was suffering more than I was. Like WOW said, I was the single one with all the options.

 

OP, YOU are the single one with all the freedom and all the options here, and he’s not. And he knows it and he probably doesn’t like it. At all. So make the best of it and DO YOUR thing!

[PhoenixRising8]

I am glad to share my experience. But - and i am sure you know this, as others have said, the odds definitely are not in the favor of this working out. That said, sometimes it does, and really, he is either leaving or he is not.

 

A very wise friend of mine told me (years ago, while my MM was still married) that men don't leave unless their wives kick them out, or they find someone they want to be with more.

 

I believe that is true. Men leaving is a rarity.... I always protected myself first and foremost. My message to him was, since day 1, "make a decision.... stay, or go, either way I will be fine". I was not going to be fine in limbo, so i didn't allow myself to be there.

 

You and Artdeco have given more practical and useful advice in a few posts than most of this entire thread. For that I thank you and am very grateful.

[PhoenixRising8]

<snip>

Somebody said this: When any MM decides he's done - he leaves immediately and never looks back. This is such a blanket statement that couldn’t be further from the truth, unless you’re dating a moron who’s completely callous and irresponsible. Like “immediately” and “never looks back”? Seriously? How can you never look back, if you have a relationship with a person for decades? Or kids with them? That’s totally unrealistic. Or leaving immediately? How? Nobody I know who was married and decided they wanted a D moved out “immediately”. That’s not logistically feasible. Or legally. Or morally. Or from a responsibility point of view, and for many other reasons. Unless you hate your spouse, or they’re violent maybe, but even then I’d consider it ill-advised. But I digress.....

<snip>

 

The bolded post was once again S2B, the BS who kept perfect house and engaged in lots of sex but was betrayed nonetheless (#223)

 

Like you Artdeco, I have never felt used, like the side piece or second best. Almost from the outset I felt loved, respected and truly cared for and admired. That hasn’t changed. He is as attentive as he has ever been despite how much he is struggling. This past weekend (and the one before) he deferred a business meeting for a couple of hours so he could help me rake and beg leaves. I didn’t ask. He always does things with me in mind. In the entire 8 months he has only ever cancelled once and that was because he had a leaking hot water tank. He has been there for me, as I have been for him.

 

This is a huge life changing decision and event. Like you, I would be surprised if he just did it on a whim and never looked back.

 

I will definitely remove myself from discussing his marriage. No good has come of it thus far and has only frustrated me because if it’s so bad he should leave. In any case, when I was visiting my cousins in May, it almost made him crazy not being able to see me for almost 3 weeks. I imagine January might be a similar situation. And if it doesn’t drive him crazy then I guess I’ll know things have changed and not in my favour.

 

Thank you Artdeco. You and WOW have been hugely helpful.

Edited November 14, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[S2B]

Spoken like the truly perfect spouse (kept perfect house and good sex - see post #194) who was jilted and betrayed by her man. Sorry had to be said.

 

Yep -at that time...

 

But I got what was due me in the end!

 

 

Btw - he didn't want me to divorce him - he just wanted to keep his home life like it was and act single when he traveled.

 

I knew I deserved better. And I knew he would never be happy - never. And he's still not 13 years later.

 

I gained my peace of mind... knowing I didn't have his demands and cheating ways anymore.

 

 

I always knew when he cheated - not only was his behavior off - I always got expensive gifts/jewelry every time.

[Starswillshine]

I think where the BSs in this thread are struggling with you is YOUR blanket judgement of his wife. You have no idea how he treats her or what he does or does not do. You dont know what he has told her he was displeased with or not. You view her as the competition thus she is bad.

 

I'll tell you briefly about my story. And why I come here. I'm here because I wanted to learn the other side. I brought me lots of empathy to see that the other woman is in pain as well. That they were fed a pack of lies just as we are. Everyone involved believe they are in this great relationship until the house caves in.

 

Anyway, about 5 years ago, my WH came home and out if the blue picked a fight with me. I had no idea where it came from. And then all of sudden I did everything wrong. This was a man that a week before, he was declaring how amazing of a wife i was, how great we work together as a team, how i was the love of his life and the most gorgeous woman he ever laid eyes on..so here he was... yelling at me for 5 hours over every single flaw i had. Things I never knew might bother him because he NEVER once spoke words to me about them. I was defensive and angry. How dare he? He left for out of town and proceeded to not talk to me for a week. The first few days, I was angry. I was mad. Then I sat and wrote down every complaint he had. (It took 2 pages). And then I wrote out actions on how I would solve them. Yes, I had my issues with him. I could have listed out many pages of them. He was by far the perfect husband. But it wasnt time for that. I loved my husband. So I took action. We got passed it.

 

We had a beautiful marriage. 4 kids. I was a SAHM. He is successful. We traveled all over the world. We loved each other. It radiated. Ask people, and we were that couple that every one wanted to be. It was obvious how much we loved each other. How much he was into me. How when we went out, he told everyone how amazing i was...

 

Talk about a total shock when i found out the truth. That fight years before... he had been with a previous OW the week before. She was young, career driven (i got pregnant in college, i never had a career), no kids, traveled independently, etc. But i found out about the last OW (and i have suspicions about at least 7 others).

 

Talking to his OW.... he told her all the same things that your MM is saying. Except.... they werent exactly the truth. He told her something once about "because you arent a prude" and she ran with it as if I was a prude (I was anything but... he was the reserved one). He told her our house was sloppy. But what he didnt tell her is he was half the mess. He also didnt tell her that in the evenings he expected the attention on him, which meant evening mess was left until the morning. He gave her complete false things, some half truths, and just some things she interpreted the way she wanted (and honestly, if I were in her position, I would have as well).

 

So maybe stop bashing his wife because you dont know the full story. It would probably help your frustration.

 

But I also can relate in it taking a long time to pull the trigger. It was 20 months after initial DDay that I finally quit my marriage. And even after weseparated, it took awhile to file for divorce. But I was a SAHM of 4 kids, never having a paying job before... i had all the reason to stay and work it out. But I found the balls to do so because I couldn't live like I was.

 

Guess what is happening? Iver a year after our separation, he is still begging me to give him a shot. But you know what... I couldn't live in a marriage where I am concerned that if I am not the perfect wife that he will stay again.

 

And if I were you, that would be my concern. He specifically looked for an affair. You didnt fall into this by accident... he is a flawed man. Women deserve better.

 

Sorry for any typos. I'm on the phone at the gym. Lol

[PhoenixRising8]

I think where the BSs in this thread are struggling with you is YOUR blanket judgement of his wife. You have no idea how he treats her or what he does or does not do. You dont know what he has told her he was displeased with or not. You view her as the competition thus she is bad.

<snip>

 

Thank you StarsWillShine for your thoughtful insights. I don’t believe I started with bashing her. It evolved with all the trite blanket statements, cliches and negativity about MMS in general. Not an excuse but in my attempt to explain his side I guess it started to sound like wife bashing which was not my original intent.

 

I realize I’m not there to see how they operate but it seems everything I’ve heard with my own ears or seen for myself, not just through him, she has really let things go, herself included and become very negative. Even their best friends acknowledged that he has put up with “a lot of Flack” from her in a conversation with Jim, and yes I heard that also. I’m not saying all BS are like her but some are. Jim on the other hand is just a big teddy bear, very kind and helpful. I know some of his actions towards her may not seem very kind but it seems he truly has had it with her flack and letting everything go, including neglecting him.

 

Maybe I’m projecting too much of my own motivation and thought process on to him but I know I personally never would have embarked on an affair. For me it was a poorly crafted survival mechanism but it did provide the impetus finally to leave a terrible marriage. Jim and I texted for a couple of weeks before meeting and when he’d answer my questions, it’s like he had been living my life. We finally met for lunch and it was instant connection. We are so much alike. We finish each other’s sentences. According to him, and from what I’ve pieced together, they are very different. He was shy with girls and she was his first real girlfriend. He and I on the other hand are very compatible. Only problem is he is married to another woman. So here we are, trying to figure out how to deal with this colossal mess we made for ourselves with minimal pain and angst and realizing there’s no painless way out.

 

It’s not that I have no sympathy or empathy for her. He is clearly unhappy and really has no desire to resurrect the marriage otherwise he would stop seeing me. If he won’t try to resurrect the marriage and isn’t happy or home a lot that’s not fair to her either. She deserves to be happy as much as he does.

 

Hope this explains some of my earlier posts that sounded like bashing.

Edited November 14, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Starswillshine]

Thank you StarsWillShine for your thoughtful insights.<snip>

 

I understand your defense.

 

We can all bat back and forth here for months. Lol.

 

You had an awful marriage, you fell in love with someone else, and you left. Let's just say he has an awful marriage, too. He hasn't left. (We understand that it is hard to do so). Some people can compartmentalize. So yes, he could be trying to save his marriage and still be with you. Thought neither will actually work until he can pick one. You will never have a sucessful relationship if you are not 100% there. And he isnt 100% with either of you.

 

Just like BS are encouraged to do the 180, OW should do something similar. You dont deserve to waste your time on a man who wont be completely available to you.

 

As I venture out into the single world again, after having been with my husband since 18 (20 years) and havi g that marriage fail, if I see red flags, I run. Maybe it is a defense mechanism but having been hurt and betrayed like I was, I NEVER want to go through that again. I dont want to spend 5 years of my life only to have it crash and burn. And maybe that is why I fight so hard to try to get the OW to see what we all can see.... because no one should have to go through this pain. If I take away my kids (because no one would say they would change things if it meant you wouldnt have kids).... if someone would have given me the magic eight ball and told me how my life would play out, I would have never given the man my number. (And in fact, I did have the darn magic eight ball... he cheated on me in the early days, but didnt call it cheating because we never discussed being exclusive... even though we were about to move to another state and in with each other... another story for another day, I guess).... anyway, I just want to cry and beg... RUN.... please do t sign up for more hurt. Please dont get yourself stuck like I was. (And maybe it is just my projection, too). And it isnt that I'm bitter, my ex and I get along great. I have a great new person in my life. I just want to see people happy. And also demand respect.

Edited November 14, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[BTDT2012]

This was a exit affair for you. What you need to be prepared for is that it may not be the same for him. You were willing to pay the financial cost of divorce; he may not be.

[PhoenixRising8]

This was a exit affair for you. What you need to be prepared for is that it may not be the same for him. You were willing to pay the financial cost of divorce; he may not be.

 

You are correct, it did end up being an exit affair for me although we both went into it intent on keeping our marriages intact. Before I finalized my separation he floated the idea of us as a real couple. He did go so far as to tell his wife he wanted a separation about 7 weeks ago when she told him she was done with all his hours at the office, without really having made a plan before broaching the subject. He’s either developing that plan now or backtracking. That’s one of the things I’m trying to figure out.

[WasOtherWoman]

I think just watch his actions. If he is leaving, he will be making plans. Actions speak louder than words.

 

Just stay true to yourself, know that you deserve to be the only woman, not the other woman. If he is not man enough to make you that, move on to someone who will.

 

As far as the wife... she may surprise you. Although my H does not have much good to say about "our" ex, i really like her. She is smart and witty and way more fun than I am. It always takes two to ruin a marriage.

 

Stay the course, stay true to what you want. January is not far away, you will have your answers soon enough.

[elaine567]

He did go so far as to tell his wife he wanted a separation about 7 weeks ago when she told him she was done with all his hours at the office, without really having made a plan before broaching the subject.

 

 

So this was not him bringing up the subject of separation due to voicing his marital dissatisfaction, but him reacting to some sort of ultimatum from his wife regarding his office hours...

That puts a slightly different perspective on things...

[PhoenixRising8]

So this was not him bringing up the subject of separation due to voicing his marital dissatisfaction, but him reacting to some sort of ultimatum from his wife regarding his office hours...

That puts a slightly different perspective on things...

 

Not exactly like that. He had already been planning on telling her he wanted a separation. When she expressed dissatisfaction with his work hours he told her part of the reason he stays away from home as much as he does is he isn’t happy in the marriage and has decided he wants to separate.

[Artdeco]

So this was not him bringing up the subject of separation due to voicing his marital dissatisfaction, but him reacting to some sort of ultimatum from his wife regarding his office hours...

That puts a slightly different perspective on things...

 

Not necessarily, and I don’t think it changes the perspective at all.

Sometimes we just take a chance, if an opportunity opens up, and that might be what he did in that moment, even if he wasn’t quite ready and possibly unprepared. Her complaint was his unexpected opportunity to get the D convo started.

 

Just think about it. You want a new car but you’re struggling to tell your H who’s a cheapskate. You prepare your speech for weeks, and when you least expect it your H comes home from work complaining about strange noises coming from somewhere underneath the motor cover. Would you not say “hey I’ve thought about investing in a new car for weeks now...” and start the discussion from there? I’m sure you’d jump at the opportunity to get the ball rolling. Gotta start somewhere, sister.

 

You really like picking apart every single damn thing the OP has to say. Jeez.

[elaine567]

I am not trying to pick apart anything, just trying to understand his mindset and trying to guess whether it is likely he is leaving or not.

Yes he jumped at the chance to bring up separation, 7 weeks ago, but not a lot has happened since, leaving poor Lilkat in limbo.

 

 

Had he been a more active participant, ie he brought it up first, then I would have seen that as a better sign, that is all.

[S2B]

I think where the BSs in this thread are struggling with you is YOUR blanket judgement of his wife. You have no idea how he treats her or what he does or does not do. You dont know what he has told her he was displeased with or not. You view her as the competition thus she is bad.

 

I'll tell you briefly about my story. And why I come here. I'm here because I wanted to learn the other side. I brought me lots of empathy to see that the other woman is in pain as well. That they were fed a pack of lies just as we are. Everyone involved believe they are in this great relationship until the house caves in.

 

Anyway, about 5 years ago, my WH came home and out if the blue picked a fight with me. I had no idea where it came from. And then all of sudden I did everything wrong. This was a man that a week before, he was declaring how amazing of a wife i was, how great we work together as a team, how i was the love of his life and the most gorgeous woman he ever laid eyes on..so here he was... yelling at me for 5 hours over every single flaw i had. Things I never knew might bother him because he NEVER once spoke words to me about them. I was defensive and angry. How dare he? He left for out of town and proceeded to not talk to me for a week. The first few days, I was angry. I was mad. Then I sat and wrote down every complaint he had. (It took 2 pages). And then I wrote out actions on how I would solve them. Yes, I had my issues with him. I could have listed out many pages of them. He was by far the perfect husband. But it wasnt time for that. I loved my husband. So I took action. We got passed it.

 

We had a beautiful marriage. 4 kids. I was a SAHM. He is successful. We traveled all over the world. We loved each other. It radiated. Ask people, and we were that couple that every one wanted to be. It was obvious how much we loved each other. How much he was into me. How when we went out, he told everyone how amazing i was...

 

Talk about a total shock when i found out the truth. That fight years before... he had been with a previous OW the week before. She was young, career driven (i got pregnant in college, i never had a career), no kids, traveled independently, etc. But i found out about the last OW (and i have suspicions about at least 7 others).

 

Talking to his OW.... he told her all the same things that your MM is saying. Except.... they werent exactly the truth. He told her something once about "because you arent a prude" and she ran with it as if I was a prude (I was anything but... he was the reserved one). He told her our house was sloppy. But what he didnt tell her is he was half the mess. He also didnt tell her that in the evenings he expected the attention on him, which meant evening mess was left until the morning. He gave her complete false things, some half truths, and just some things she interpreted the way she wanted (and honestly, if I were in her position, I would have as well).

 

So maybe stop bashing his wife because you dont know the full story. It would probably help your frustration.

 

But I also can relate in it taking a long time to pull the trigger. It was 20 months after initial DDay that I finally quit my marriage. And even after weseparated, it took awhile to file for divorce. But I was a SAHM of 4 kids, never having a paying job before... i had all the reason to stay and work it out. But I found the balls to do so because I couldn't live like I was.

 

Guess what is happening? Iver a year after our separation, he is still begging me to give him a shot. But you know what... I couldn't live in a marriage where I am concerned that if I am not the perfect wife that he will stay again.

 

And if I were you, that would be my concern. He specifically looked for an affair. You didnt fall into this by accident... he is a flawed man. Women deserve better.

 

Sorry for any typos. I'm on the phone at the gym. Lol

 

I also could have written something totally similar to this... a fight was purposely picked by him every time he felt guilty about cheating. It gave him good reason to storm off (go see his OW). I wasn't stupid. I hadn't even said one word during those "arguments" - he was essentially arguing with himself.

 

 

And when I say - you ONLY know what he wants you to know - I mean it! You have NO idea what's real for them.

[S2B]

Not exactly like that. He had already been planning on telling her he wanted a separation. When she expressed dissatisfaction with his work hours he told her part of the reason he stays away from home as much as he does is he isn’t happy in the marriage and has decided he wants to separate.

 

 

Did you hear him tell her that?

 

If not - you have NO idea that is true!

[PhoenixRising8]

Did you hear him tell her that?

 

If not - you have NO idea that is true!

 

You really are intent on making him out to be a liar aren't you? I've actually posted the fact that I've heard a lot but let me remind you in any case.

 

The first discussion occurred on a Sunday afternoon - the opportunity she gave him. She and the kids all jumped on him and he retreated to some degree.

 

A couple of days later, he and I got together to talk in person and he admitted he hadn't planned on what would happen if he was ganged up on. Then he went home as did I. No sooner did I pull into the driveway,he called (he had a drive 20 minutes less than mine) and said she confronted him when he got home and he told her that he just didn't think he had it in him to try to resurrect the marriage because it was too far gone at which point she stormed out of the house (it was around midnight at this point) without her phone so he had no way of reaching her. In the meantime, his daughter woke up because of the commotion and went out to search for her mother. About half an hour later, while we were still talking, she came back and started yelling at him that she isn't even worth trying for after all these years. He had quickly put the phone down but didn't hang up. I heard enough to know he had in fact talked to her about separating.

 

Since then, I have heard 2 conversations with the daughter and one with the son as well as the one with the best friends where he was clear that he believes the marriage is not salvageable and that in the long run he feels they would both be happier apart.

 

So that's how I know. Yes he has said to me on a few occasions that sometimes he's made to feel so guilty he thinks he should try but believes it would not work. We tried NC because he thought he owed it to her to try but that lasted 3 days before he called me to say he was miserable without me and being with her for extended periods just highlighted how much he loved me and couldn't stay with her the rest of his life.

 

Go ahead, pick it apart. I know you will.

[PhoenixRising8]

Not necessarily, and I don’t think it changes the perspective at all.

Sometimes we just take a chance, if an opportunity opens up, and that might be what he did in that moment, even if he wasn’t quite ready and possibly unprepared. Her complaint was his unexpected opportunity to get the D convo started.

 

Just think about it. You want a new car but you’re struggling to tell your H who’s a cheapskate. You prepare your speech for weeks, and when you least expect it your H comes home from work complaining about strange noises coming from somewhere underneath the motor cover. Would you not say “hey I’ve thought about investing in a new car for weeks now...” and start the discussion from there? I’m sure you’d jump at the opportunity to get the ball rolling. Gotta start somewhere, sister.

 

You really like picking apart every single damn thing the OP has to say. Jeez.

 

Well said. Thanks ?

[S2B]

What did he say they were all ganging up on him about?

[PhoenixRising8]

What did he say they were all ganging up on him about?

 

The usual you can't leave after all these years without trying to make it work.

[PhoenixRising8]

I think just watch his actions. If he is leaving, he will be making plans. Actions speak louder than words.

 

Just stay true to yourself, know that you deserve to be the only woman, not the other woman. If he is not man enough to make you that, move on to someone who will.

 

As far as the wife... she may surprise you. Although my H does not have much good to say about "our" ex, i really like her. She is smart and witty and way more fun than I am. It always takes two to ruin a marriage.

 

Stay the course, stay true to what you want. January is not far away, you will have your answers soon enough.

 

I think it all comes down to compatibility. It isn't really about who's better but who fulfills needs better. And sometimes what brought you together in the beginning isn't enough to hold you together through the rough spots. Sometimes people just grow apart instead of growing together.

[anika99]

We'll I'd say we've analyzed this from every angled and there is nothing to do now but wait and see. This thread was started almost a month ago and in your first post you say he first said he was leaving about 5 weeks earlier. That means around mid September. Now here it is 2 months later and there is still no change.

 

I get that someone can't just wake up one day and say to their spouse that they're leaving and then just walk out the door. One may have to organize their finances and ensure that their family will be able to survive on their own but is he even doing that. Is he actually taking steps towards leaving. I mean besides just tormenting his wife.

 

I can't see him leaving over the xmas and new years holidays so how long will you wait. I think you need to pick a time frame and enforce it. Either he leaves or you walk. If you just leave it open ended he could drag this on forever

[S2B]

I hope he keeps his word with you.

 

I do wish that for you for all the years you are with him.

[WasOtherWoman]

So another thing to watch.. the drama. There should be minimal if he is fully and mentally committed to leaving. My husband got his ducks in a row, told his then wife he was leaving and then left. That was that. He told her he was leaving and moved out that same weekend. He was kind, but firm. Any other way only prolongs it and causes additional pain and anxiety.

 

You really need to look at it this way, divorce is not the end of the world (I am NOT minimizing it or it's effect). But, it is like anything else in life, you make a decision and then you move forward. If my H had waffled back and forth, this would have been a problem for me, as I don't deal with uncertainty well. He would not have been a suitable partner for me, and I would not have been able to continue the relationship.

 

Do we know what he is waiting for? If he told her five weeks ago.....

[elaine567]

.

 

Do we know what he is waiting for? If he told her five weeks ago.....

It was 5 weeks on the 19th October, is now 9 weeks ago...