My gf and good friend - **Updated**

[coolheadal]

She's a hot mess, kind of sociopath as well. You don't need her as gf as you already said in the beginning post line. You can be there as a friend she doesn't see you as that either. She's a control freak! We men can't allow such a woman to control us in such of way with her crying and breaking up with us without any reason. Yeah not your fault it's her problem you just got caught up in her web of mistrust.

[beowulf44]

UPDATE:

 

So I went to her house today, to leave her a surprise gift overnight, which I've done before (e.g., she wakes up to a rose in her windshield). We have been "broken up" for a week but started talking again, and she has been showing me some affection recently. So I was going to do something similar this time.

 

I get to her house to leave the gift (it's 1am), and he's parked in her driveway. As I park, they drive away.

 

I guess that says it all. Wow.

[beowulf44]

I posted a thread a few days ago about my then-gf, and some issues we were having. The jist of it was “my gf is very dramatic and manipulative and has started to talk a lot to my good friend” (lets call him Johnny). Many of the posters didn’t comment so much on the “Johnny” topic, but moreso on her negative attributes, advising me to leave her due to her instability. One of the posters mentioned her instability may have been due to me not wanting to be public with the relationship at my gym, despite other girls being very into me at my gym. According to her, my friend may have not even known (which I think is BS - even if I never said we were “dating”, I told him early on that we hang out frequently in a male-female fashion. Plus, she said she told him already about us). In any case, their relationship seemed very weird to me.

 

You can see here to read the full thread (maybe not necessary): https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/666581-my-gf-good-friend-updated

 

Fast forward to now. We have been in a “breakup” period for about a week, and we started talking to each other for a few days now, showing some signs of improvement. I was going to ask her out tomorrow to try to mend things a bit.

 

Tonight, I was actually planning on leaving her a little gift on her car, as I had done in the past, so she could wake up to a nice surprise - a book I had bought her (in the past, I had left her a rose on her windshield when she woke up when she was feeling stressed with work). As I was driving to her house, I park, and I see my friend parked in her driveway. They see me park, and drive away.

 

I’m 100% sure it was my friends car (its a very particular color), and she was definitely inside talking to him. I called her 2x as they drive away. No answer. I call him 2x. No answer. I suppose this is a natural reaction.

 

I didn’t plan to get angry at them. I merely planned to ask my friend if he knew me and the gf were in a relationship, as I’m not entirely sure how I feel about my relationship with Johhny at this point and if I want to continue it.

 

QUESTION: HOW DO I PROCEED NOW? We are bound to see each other soon, as we all lift at the same gym at the same time. He even knows her through me.

 

Is there any way to rationalize this? Any possible ‘tame’ explanation as far as what could be going on? (e.g. maybe they were talking about how to fix my relationship with her?) E.g., basically, should I confront them to see if there is a plausible explanation? Or am I truly delusional right now

 

Some people might say it doesn’t matter as we were broken up, because it looks like at the very least there was some emotional cheating thats been going on the whole time.

 

Should I give them any time of day as far as an explanation goes? Or just move on.

Edited October 17, 2018 by beowulf44

[2much4]

Honestly, I would just leave it be. It's the perfect opportunity to stay broken up. I wouldn't stay friends with Johnny. No need to blow up, just distance yourself. He's a #### friend. Of course he knew.

 

I read the last thread and was kind of suprised at everyone calling your now ex a nutter. I agree with the poster who pointed out you've been dating for half a year and people around you don't even know about it. She probably got fed up with your constant flirting... I'm not saying this to make you feel guilty. But I suspect you weren't ever really invested in this relationship to begin with....so why bother?

[ExpatInItaly]

Or just move on.

 

Yes, this.

[beowulf44]

Honestly, I would just leave it be. It's the perfect opportunity to stay broken up. I wouldn't stay friends with Johnny. No need to blow up, just distance yourself. He's a #### friend. Of course he knew.

 

I read the last thread and was kind of suprised at everyone calling your now ex a nutter. I agree with the poster who pointed out you've been dating for half a year and people around you don't even know about it. She probably got fed up with your constant flirting... I'm not saying this to make you feel guilty. But I suspect you weren't ever really invested in this relationship to begin with....so why bother?

 

Thanks for the response. I went into it truly not wanting to be in a relationship with her, but I've gained a lot of feelings for her over time. Also, just to clarify, I did stop talking to those other girls at my gym - I think 'constant flirting' is a bit of a strong spin to it, but I do understand your point. If I had to do it again, I would have definitely been more public with the relationship.

 

As I said in the other thread (I think?), part of me wanted to give this relationship a chance to see if it would work after following that poster's advice. But I think we're past that point now.

 

Thanks, also, for reading the other thread. Really appreciate it.

Edited October 17, 2018 by beowulf44

[Mx12345]

I read the other thread as well, and this is what happens when there is too much gray area in a relationship. Firstly, both him and her are sh***t people. But with that being said, you don't seem like you did anything to reassure this girl of your feelings for her.

 

She establishes early on she wants to be by/gf in a committed relationship. I don't know what you told her verbally, but your non verbal actions probably made her very insecure. You make no effort to introduce her to your family, you don't tell anyone at the gym you both frequent that you are a couple, you don't show any PDA in front of anyone at the gym, you talk up other attractive women at the gym (which IMO is very disrespectful that she has to see that), etc. You say she is hard to communicate with, but if I were her I would have been distant/feeling things out as we went along. You are not making any signs you are serious about her so maybe that is why she had a hard time communicating with you.

 

Now this other guy comes along, and who knows what their conversations were about but obviously there was some attraction on both their parts. Now what she SHOULD have done, was come to you, said she was unhappy with things, established what she would like in order for her to feel better about the relationship (you stop with the other girls, you acknowledge your relationship to others, you do things that tell her you are serious about her, i.e. meeting the family) and if you didn't want to do those things, the relationship could have ended amicably. But instead she chose to be sneaky with this other guy who was showing her the attention you weren't.

 

Let this go, you weren't serious about her and she's a sh***y person.

[olivetree]

I didn't read your other thread but my first thought was that if I was with a guy who wasn't open and proud to be with me, I'd get tired of it and move on too.

[Jacob_Duluoz]

UPDATE:

 

So I went to her house today, to leave her a surprise gift overnight, which I've done before (e.g., she wakes up to a rose in her windshield). We have been "broken up" for a week but started talking again, and she has been showing me some affection recently. So I was going to do something similar this time.

 

I get to her house to leave the gift (it's 1am), and he's parked in her driveway. As I park, they drive away.

 

I guess that says it all. Wow.

 

You need to cut them both completely out of your life. He's not a friend and she's not a girlfriend, they're cheaters. Lesson: ever put up with disrespect, threatening behavior or manipulation. You don't have to swallow your pride.

[beowulf44]

Thanks for all the input. I guess it’s easy for me to look back on the relationship and say I should’ve been more open with it, and that it’s in large part my fault. Then again, there are probably reasons I had my reservations in the first place (the fact that she was pushing for us to get engaged within 2 months was always a red flag).

 

It’s also interesting that the other thread has gotten totally different responses than this one (she’s a nutter vs you didn’t treat her right). I was just trying to illustrate both sides of our story.

 

At the end of the day, i guess, both of our mistakes aside, the fact will still remain that I’m not ready for her level of commitment.. at least not bow. It’s probably only right to let her find someone else that is more ready for this than me. Because even if we were to reconcile our issues, I still wouldn’t be ready for that kind of life change.

 

Just sucks. Thank you everyone for all the wonderful insight. I’m also shocked it all came crumbling down so fast, but that’s another issue.

[ExpatInItaly]

It’s also interesting that the other thread has gotten totally different responses than this one (she’s a nutter vs you didn’t treat her right). I was just trying to illustrate both sides of our story.

 

Well, you provided many more details about her questionable behaviour in your other thread, so no great surprise there.

[Highndry]

UPDATE:

 

So I went to her house today, to leave her a surprise gift overnight, which I've done before (e.g., she wakes up to a rose in her windshield). We have been "broken up" for a week but started talking again, and she has been showing me some affection recently. So I was going to do something similar this time.

 

I get to her house to leave the gift (it's 1am), and he's parked in her driveway. As I park, they drive away.

 

I guess that says it all. Wow.

 

 

Yes, it does say it all. This woman is terribly disrespectful and not worthy of your time. I would never, ever talk to her again.

[2much4]

The marriage part would have scared me lol

 

I do agree with the other thread that she is unstable. But I didn't get the impression thats the advice you came here for. There's always two sides. Also, when you get rejected sometimes you forget you weren't even that interested to begin with

 

It just feels so sudden because you've been "breaking up" for so long. Part of why these relationships hurt is you get so used to the drama it's hard to grasp when it's fully over....

She might try to come back or act like nothing happened: don't let her!!

[beowulf44]

The marriage part would have scared me lol

 

I do agree with the other thread that she is unstable. But I didn't get the impression thats the advice you came here for. There's always two sides. Also, when you get rejected sometimes you forget you weren't even that interested to begin with

 

It just feels so sudden because you've been "breaking up" for so long. Part of why these relationships hurt is you get so used to the drama it's hard to grasp when it's fully over....

She might try to come back or act like nothing happened: don't let her!![]

 

Thanks, she's already done that to varying degrees, and I've let her. It won't happen again.

 

One more point - I tried to frame this thread according to the advice I got from the other thread where the poster said the breakup is due to me not being open about her relationship. Because I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

Although I'm sure this bothered her, Im starting to think it wasn't a big role in the breakup. When I brought this up to her over the weekend when we hung out, she said it wasn't a factor - and to be clear, she never mentioned this as a contributing factor when we initially broke up. She has only started to lean on this as a reason recently, as she looks for other reasons to add to the list of why "we won't work out".

 

I honestly still think a big part of the breakup was her desire to control. She threw a ton of sh*t tests at me, and while I handled many of them well, I could have handled some of them better. I guess all those weaknesses add up over time and give someone the impression that they can walk over the other person. Live and learn.

[ExpatInItaly]

I honestly still think a big part of the breakup was her desire to control. She threw a ton of sh*t tests at me, and while I handled many of them well, I could have handled some of them better. I guess all those weaknesses add up over time and give someone the impression that they can walk over the other person. Live and learn.

 

The thing is that in a healthy and mature relationship, sh*t tests don't factor in. People generally communicate like grown-ups rather than teens, and you won't be dealing with that type of behaviour.

 

You both stand to learn from this, and hopefully your future relationships are better and more sustainable than this one was.

[beowulf44]

The thing is that in a healthy and mature relationship, sh*t tests don't factor in. People generally communicate like grown-ups rather than teens, and you won't be dealing with that type of behaviour.

 

You both stand to learn from this, and hopefully your future relationships are better and more sustainable than this one was.

Sorry if I don't understand. Do you mean that sh*t tests are a sign of a toxic relationship? I follow quite a few men's dating coaches on youtube, and many seem to believe that **** tests are a common and necessary part of many relationships (I actually just posted another thread about this before I saw your post ha)

[ExpatInItaly]

Sorry if I don't understand. Do you mean that sh*t tests are a sign of a toxic relationship? I follow quite a few men's dating coaches on youtube, and many seem to believe that **** tests are a common and necessary part of many relationships (I actually just posted another thread about this before I saw your post ha)

 

They certainly can be. Usually it's plain old immaturity, in my experience, but it can also indicate a toxic undertone overall.

 

I am a woman and don't agree that sh*t tests should be a necessary part of relationships. Common when the couple is young, immature or simply lacking decent communication skills, yes. Necessary? No, absolutely not. Mind you, I'm also in my late 30s and have low tolerance for drama these days. I saw this a lot more when my friends and I were in our late teens or early 20s.

 

Can you define what sh*t test means to you, though? The term is so subjective that it would be worth clarifying what exactly you mean and giving an example.

[beowulf44]

They certainly can be. Usually it's plain old immaturity, in my experience, but it can also indicate a toxic undertone overall.

 

I am a woman and don't agree that sh*t tests should be a necessary part of relationships. Common when the couple is young, immature or simply lacking decent communication skills, yes. Necessary? No, absolutely not. Mind you, I'm also in my late 30s and have low tolerance for drama these days. I saw this a lot more when my friends and I were in our late teens or early 20s.

 

Can you define what sh*t test means to you, though? The term is so subjective that it would be worth clarifying what exactly you mean and giving an example.

 

A sh*t test to me is when she acts or behaves in an inappropriate or unreasonable way to see how I'll react. Some specifics - making an unreasonable request like when she asked me to stop by Starbucks and bring her a coffee (as I was driving home on my motorcycle... as if I can just hold it in my hand). Or overreacting to certain situations to see how if I'll react (do I ignore or do I fall into her drama/act 'weak/apologetic' despite being in the right/etc)

 

Side note: she has actually admitted in the past to **** testing me and that I "passed" these tests, and thats one of her favorite things about me. But that was a while ago, and the drama has only intensified since then, and I dont think Ive handled the recent ones as well

[ExpatInItaly]

A sh*t test to me is when she acts or behaves in an inappropriate or unreasonable way to see how I'll react. Some specifics - making an unreasonable request like when she asked me to stop by Starbucks and bring her a coffee (as I was driving home on my motorcycle... as if I can just hold it in my hand). Or overreacting to certain situations to see how if I'll react (do I ignore or do I fall into her drama/act 'weak/apologetic' despite being in the right/etc)

 

Side note: she has actually admitted in the past to **** testing me and that I "passed" these tests, and thats one of her favorite things about me. But that was a while ago, and the drama has only intensified since then, and I dont think Ive handled the recent ones as well

 

This is all so immature, OP.

 

I don't know which dating coaches you're following who lead you to believe any of this is necessary, but that's a bunch of malarkey.

[beowulf44]

This is all so immature, OP.

 

I don't know which dating coaches you're following who lead you to believe any of this is necessary, but that's a bunch of malarkey.

 

Lol the motorcycle request is one I'll treasure for ages, that's for sure.

[beowulf44]

I read the other thread as well, and this is what happens when there is too much gray area in a relationship. Firstly, both him and her are sh***t people. But with that being said, you don't seem like you did anything to reassure this girl of your feelings for her.

 

She establishes early on she wants to be by/gf in a committed relationship. I don't know what you told her verbally, but your non verbal actions probably made her very insecure. You make no effort to introduce her to your family, you don't tell anyone at the gym you both frequent that you are a couple, you don't show any PDA in front of anyone at the gym, you talk up other attractive women at the gym (which IMO is very disrespectful that she has to see that), etc. You say she is hard to communicate with, but if I were her I would have been distant/feeling things out as we went along. You are not making any signs you are serious about her so maybe that is why she had a hard time communicating with you.

 

Now this other guy comes along, and who knows what their conversations were about but obviously there was some attraction on both their parts. Now what she SHOULD have done, was come to you, said she was unhappy with things, established what she would like in order for her to feel better about the relationship (you stop with the other girls, you acknowledge your relationship to others, you do things that tell her you are serious about her, i.e. meeting the family) and if you didn't want to do those things, the relationship could have ended amicably. But instead she chose to be sneaky with this other guy who was showing her the attention you weren't.

 

Let this go, you weren't serious about her and she's a sh***y person.

 

 

As I reflect on things that happened, I think that this is a pretty accurate depiction of what probably went down. I imagine she made the decision to break up long ago and was waiting to see just in case things would change, and our recent argument was simply the catalyst she needed to jump ship to this other dude who fit her blueprint a bit better than I did.

 

That being said, I do think its a little deeper than that. I don’t think she had reasonable expectations as far as speed of the relationship, and she definitely pushed my buttons a little too hard to get me to “show her I love her” (at one point she told me she was considering moving back to her home country, which was obviously very upsetting for me to hear… she kept up this story for a month before telling me that she was “just kidding”). But I realize I’m pointing the finger now and I shouldn’t do that.

 

Anyway, it’s been about 2-3 weeks since everything happened. Her and my friend are now a super visible “thing” in the gym, and she kisses him when they’re there together. They walk in together, walk out together, etc. It’s so weird, and so many of the people at the gym find it so weird as well.

 

Although I’m angry as piss at my friend, I get the sense that she probably deceived him about us - at least to some capacity. I never confronted him, instead choosing to bottle things up. But after we broke up, she told me “Don’t you DARE talk to your friend about this. I will be so angry at you”. I imagine she said this to protect whatever she told him.

 

While part of me wants to set the record straight and protect my reputation, part of me wants to let him reap what he has sown, because I know she is gonna chew up him up and spit him out, and the vengeful side of me wants to see this. It really does suck that I’m losing my formerly good friend, though.

 

Looking back on my relationship, I also see TONS of inconsistencies that I didn’t understand at the time, but which I now realize were indications of her generally deceitful behavior (phone calls at 3am from “her cousin”, etc). I also get the sense that she has been spreading lies about me at the gym to protect her reputation and public perception given what she did. Not really sure what to do about this.

 

What’s weird is that she still makes frequent eye contact with me at the gym. There are times when she sees me at the gym and she breaks down crying and has to leave. And even though we are broken up, she still goes out of her way to monitor if other girls are talking to me, and gets super jealous when she sees them doing so. Whats up with that? I mean, she’s the one who ended things.

Edited November 3, 2018 by beowulf44

[ExpatInItaly]

What’s weird is that she still makes frequent eye contact with me at the gym. There are times when she sees me at the gym and she breaks down crying and has to leave. And even though we are broken up, she still goes out of her way to monitor if other girls are talking to me, and gets super jealous when she sees them doing so. Whats up with that? I mean, she’s the one who ended things.

 

It's not weird coming from someone like her. Par for the course, actually.

 

Immature and ego-driven people behave like this. That's all it is.