My gf and good friend - **Updated**

[beowulf44]

I'm 29, she's 26. We met at the gym, started going out, she started pulling labels on it quickly and pushing to escalate the connection ("in a relationship", "I love you", even talks about marriage). She's very traditional, so I understand that.

 

We're approaching 6 months, and I can't honestly say things have ever been smooth. She loves to create drama and is pretty manipulative. For example, if I'm working the whole day and don't text her, she won't talk to me at the gym and will harbor a grudge because I 'didn't text her first because I don't care about her' (it doesn't matter that she could've texted me first, she gets mad if I don't text first). High school drama type stuff. Still happens all the time.

 

I'm a fairly attractive guy, friendly with pretty much everyone at my gym, etc. Girls at my gym like me, and I think she knows that. I never push buttons about it. Before we were dating, she would see me talking to different girls. She later confided in me (not sure if true or just said to provoke a reaction) that girls would always ask her about me, and that she would overhear other girls talking about me. She's a VERY JEALOUS person, and one time she actually 'broke up' with me for talking to a girl I've known for a while there (wasn't a real breakup, she 'breaks up' all the time)

 

I don't mean to make her sound bad, she also has good positive traits, but these are some of the negative ones that I'm just trying to learn to deal with.

 

Anyway, I've stopped talking to girls at the gym, to lessen the drama. Recently, she's started talking to my best gym buddy. I am NOT a jealous person, and sometimes she tells me she wishes I was. But this particular interaction bothers me. They talk for long periods at the gym (like 15-40minute chat sessions), she has told me that he has asked her out (and that she's declined), and sometimes she asks me questions about him ("oh your friend... what's his name again (as if she didn't know)... he just got a new car").

 

I used to be able to shrug it off but now my face and demeanor reflects my attitude when I see this. My friend doesn't treat me differently nowadays, but I can't help but try to avoid him when I see him. Ive never confronted him, only her.

 

Im not really public about our relationship at the gym, and I always downplayed it when talking to my friend in the past. According to my gf (for whatever thats worth), he "didn't know" but "now he does". In my mind, I shouldn't have had to made it explicit to him - I told him plenty of stories, and he sees us walk in/walk out together, so that message alone should have been enough.

 

My gf and I have gotten into arguments about this before, but nothing changes. I don't know if she actually likes him or not, or if she's just doing this to manipulate me.

 

Am I just being sensitive? I told her I was tired of the double standard, and I truly am not gonna put up with it anymore. But I just wanted to hear if people would chime in about this.

 

Most people will probably say 'just leave her', but the real advice I'm looking for is whether I'm just overreacting/being sensitive.

Edited October 11, 2018 by beowulf44

[smackie9]

This is unhealthy and she is unstable...that's all I can say about her. I doubt saying anything to her will fix her immature behavior. This is why we date.....it to find out what the person is like, and if there is any promise of a future. Re-access your relationship and figure it out.

[ChatroomHero]

When people are jealous I tend to find it is because they are applying their thoughts or actions to you. Like she knows she flirts with the guy, may cheat with him, may already have...so in her mind you think like her and must be doing the same thing. Plus they love drama the situation they created brings along with it.

 

 

Guilty minds and drama queens cause a lot of issues and gaslighting to provide the spark they crave. Frankly that is what your relationship is with her, moody, drama filled, jealousy filled, stressful and a roller coaster interactions. Some people get bored if the ride is really smooth.

 

 

I find that people don't change. You hope a discussion and putting it on the table will clear it up and things will get better but they always go back because the drama monster needs to be fed.

 

 

Personally, if you like roller coasters and arguments, enjoy. If you don't, find someone more compatible.

[beowulf44]

Guilty minds and drama queens cause a lot of issues and gaslighting to provide the spark they crave. Frankly that is what your relationship is with her, moody, drama filled, jealousy filled, stressful and a roller coaster interactions. Some people get bored if the ride is really smooth.

 

 

I find that people don't change. You hope a discussion and putting it on the table will clear it up and things will get better but they always go back because the drama monster needs to be fed.

 

 

Personally, if you like roller coasters and arguments, enjoy. If you don't, find someone more compatible.

This is what I find interesting. You're not giving me advice to break up with her, you're basically telling me "if you can put up with it, go for it". For example, if she cheated, the advice would unanimously to leave her. But your advice is moreso "if your frame is strong enough to stay the course, than by all means stay with it". Am I correct in my understanding?

[Noproblem]

Do you love her?

[kendahke]

This is what I find interesting. You're not giving me advice to break up with her, you're basically telling me "if you can put up with it, go for it". For example, if she cheated, the advice would unanimously to leave her. But your advice is moreso "if your frame is strong enough to stay the course, than by all means stay with it". Am I correct in my understanding?

 

If you are, it's some really lousy advice to take. Why should you put up with contempt just because of how she looks? Does that make any sense to you?

[beowulf44]

If you are, it's some really lousy advice to take. Why should you put up with contempt just because of how she looks? Does that make any sense to you?

 

Of course I understand. This relationship is definitely a new experience for me.

 

The 'contempt' as you put it is super frustrating, but it's always petty stuff. Besides the insecurities, our lifestyles, morals, hobbies, etc, are pretty compatible. The contempt is mostly manifested in little squabbles over petty things, and while these things are super annoying, they usually resolve quickly.

 

I have a friend, who is a lot older than me (48), and he's had a lot of success with women. He basically thinks her behavior is nothing that can't be written off as petty childish behavior and shouldn't be entertained as anything more than that.

 

Maybe thats because he has more experience with these types of women, but he doesn't attribute much real danger to such petty behavior. (he's also single lol but thats besides the point)

 

Or maybe I'm trying a little too hard to rationalize this, huh?

[Scarlett.O'hara]

Her behavior sounds symptomatic of her insecurity about your relationship.

 

Is it over the top and a bit immature, yes. But look at the facts. You knew she was looking for a serious relationship early on. She made that abundantly clear what she wanted, yet nobody at the gym you both frequent evens knows you are together, not even your good friend. For a woman who (as you put it) pushed for the label of girlfriend, this will be a problem.

 

I understand your frustration over the double standard of talking to people of the opposite sex, but again this seems connected to the fact that you are perceived as an attractive single guy open to chatting and being friendly with other women while she remains a secret.

 

As for her chats with your friend. Have you considered the possibility that she used these chats as a means to drop in the fact that you two are together? Telling you that he asked her out is meant to point out to the fact that guys are going to assume she is single too.

 

Does anyone else in your life know about her? Is she included in other aspects of your life? If the answer is no, then I can guarantee that there will be even more displays of insecurity and aggravation coming your way.

 

To be clear, I am not saying what she is doing is acceptable, however, it is understandable that someone wanting specific things from a relationship is going to have a problem when their needs are not met.

 

If you care about her a lot then I suggest having an open and honest discussion about what you both want and need out of this relationship and see if you can find a compromise on a few things.

 

If you can't find a compromise then you might have to part ways. However, if that does happen, one of you will probably have to find a new gym because things are likely going to get ugly.

[lurker74]

She loves to create drama and is pretty manipulative.

 

Get the eff out.

[ExpatInItaly]

This woman is too childish for a serious relationship, OP.

 

She operates on the same emotional maturity level as a teenager.

[beowulf44]

Her behavior sounds symptomatic of her insecurity about your relationship.

 

Is it over the top and a bit immature, yes. But look at the facts. You knew she was looking for a serious relationship early on. She made that abundantly clear what she wanted, yet nobody at the gym you both frequent evens knows you are together, not even your good friend. For a woman who (as you put it) pushed for the label of girlfriend, this will be a problem.

 

<SNIP>

Hi Scarlett, appreciate the response. This is why I don't want to write her off as completely immature, because I know there are 2 sides to every story.

 

You're right about a few things, I could see how she perceives her role as confusing. She's never met me parents. I've only met her mom once, and am definitely a bit apprehensive of meeting her family. I don't like when she does PDAs with me in the gym. At the gym, she used to ask me all the time "does x or y" know about us, and I used to skirt the issue. So I can see where you're coming from.

 

"Have you considered the possibility that she used these chats as a means to drop in the fact that you two are together?"

 

I don't know about that, but its an interesting side I suppose. If so, she's taken that whole schtick a bit far to illustrate her point.

 

Communication is hard with her - hard to pull stuff out of her sometimes.

Sometimes she'll double talk an issue ('You know I don't ever want to get married and don't believe in marriage', followed by a serious convo few days later when she asks me when we're getting married). And sometimes (she's admitted) she'll say or do things just to see how I'll react, even though she doesn't mean them (I know many women do this).

 

But I get your point and I appreciate the input - I do see some of the 'logic' behind her behavior.

Edited October 14, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[beowulf44]

This woman is too childish for a serious relationship, OP.

 

She operates on the same emotional maturity level as a teenager.

And this is the other side I'm considering too. The fact that if this behavior never changes, it could be a real danger down the road when/if things are much more serious.

[ExpatInItaly]

And this is the other side I'm considering too. The fact that if this behavior never changes, it could be a real danger down the road when/if things are much more serious.

 

It's a real problem now, OP, or you wouldn't have described her as petty and manipulative. Even if she weren't getting friendly with your gym buddy, there are red flags all over this relationship.

 

I also have to say that your older friend is giving you some bad advice. There is no reason why a self-respecting man should put up with emotional manipulation and frequent "break-ups" from his partner. It's not just some little detail to push under the rug. She is showing you who she is. I don't know how your 48-year-old friend would define "success" with women nor the quality of the women he prefers, but I'll say this: my own man was 48 when we met. If I had pulled the crap with him that your girlfriend pulls with you, I would have been shown the door fast. He has too much self-respect to allow himself to be yanked around by a childish woman who breaks up all the time and throws hissy fits.

 

Setting aside her friendship with the gym guy for a moment, I still maintain she is not mature enough for any kind of adult relationship. She creates high school drama because, well, emotionally that's where she still is. And if you keep enabling her crappy behaviour, that's where she'll stay.

[kendahke]

Of course I understand. This relationship is definitely a new experience for me.

 

The 'contempt' as you put it is super frustrating, but it's always petty stuff. Besides the insecurities, our lifestyles, morals, hobbies, etc, are pretty compatible. The contempt is mostly manifested in little squabbles over petty things, and while these things are super annoying, they usually resolve quickly.

 

I have a friend, who is a lot older than me (48), and he's had a lot of success with women. He basically thinks her behavior is nothing that can't be written off as petty childish behavior and shouldn't be entertained as anything more than that.

 

Maybe thats because he has more experience with these types of women, but he doesn't attribute much real danger to such petty behavior. (he's also single lol but thats besides the point)

 

Or maybe I'm trying a little too hard to rationalize this, huh?

 

Yes you are.

 

You and your friend are two different people. His experience with women is just that: his experience. No one else's. Who he is and how he is might work for his end goals as far as women are concerned, but they may not and most likely will not work for anyone else.

 

If he wants to deal with childish, petty, stupid women, good for him. Let them grind him down into powder. Doesn't mean you need or should do the same with this chick.

[kendahke]

And this is the other side I'm considering too. The fact that if this behavior never changes, it could be a real danger down the road when/if things are much more serious.

 

Your danger is unfolding right now.

 

But she's hot, so...

[kendahke]

 

I also have to say that your older friend is giving you some bad advice. There is no reason why a self-respecting man should put up with emotional manipulation and frequent "break-ups" from his partner. It's not just some little detail to push under the rug. She is showing you who she is. I don't know how your 48-year-old friend would define "success" with women nor the quality of the women he prefers, but I'll say this: my own man was 48 when we met. If I had pulled the crap with him that your girlfriend pulls with you, I would have been shown the door fast. He has too much self-respect to allow himself to be yanked around by a childish woman who breaks up all the time and throws hissy fits.

 

^^^This. All. Day. Long.

 

Your 48 year old friend puts up with this from hot little crazy babes because he's 48 and not 28 anymore and his options are running out. He feels on top of the world when the hot, broken ones toss him a bone, but it's interesting how the well adjusted, emotionally whole 20-somethings probably won't give him the time of day.

[Marc878]

I'm not talking to other girls because she gets mad.

 

She's talking to other guys but I suck it up so she won't get mad.

 

What's wrong with this picture?

[Highndry]

Run, and I mean R U N, fast and far. She's oozing "Cluster B" cocktail.

[beowulf44]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Seems like (save for one poster), everyone thinks Id be better served cutting my losses and moving on

 

That aside, regardless of what happens, does anyone have any input on the whole "best friend" thing? Just want to learn what people think about that in a general sense, whether its for this relationship or a future one.

[beowulf44]

Hi guys. My gf and I get into conflict quite a bit. There’s a ton of backstory which I described in another thread, and while she has many great qualities, she has some negative qualities: shes quite dramatic, jealous, possessive, double standards, etc. I try to take it in stride - we all have our foibles. I'll describe our current situation.

 

So basically, I have a lot of female friends and am fairly attractive. I stopped talking to many of them, because it was causing a lot of drama. One day she even ‘broke up’ with me , because she felt insecure about an hour long chat I had with an attractive girl Ive known since 2011. It wasnt a real breakup, just 24 hours - she breaks up all the time.

 

Anyway, I saw her talking to some guy at the gym Tuesday night - a good friend of mine, actually. I'm usually not jealous, but she’s been talking more and more to him recently. Part of me (I suppose) is jealous, but a large part also hates the double standard - she can have multiple hour long chats with him everyday, but she throws hissy fits when I do the same with girls.

 

Anyway, I call her out on this Tuesday night after leaving the gym and seeing her do this again. She plays the usual "tries to flip this on me" card (whats wrong with you? ok fine, lets break up) and then realizes I'm not falling for it. She calls me up and I stand my ground. At this point, I had just gone back to the gym to relieve my stress, and I just wanted to be alone for a bit. She tells me to come over to her house so we can talk, and I tell her I don't want to - even though she lives down the street from the gym. I just wasnt in the mood. I wasn't rude, but I wasn't smooth, and maybe I could have been a little more empathetic to the situation, less sarcastic, etc.

 

She starts 'begging' to see each other (as she calls it - asking me to "please" come over for just 10 mins, or for her to come to the gym to talk to me) and crying. I had never heard my gf cry before, and it sucked. I told her I would come over when I finish my workout.. It was late - 12amish - and I didnt really specify a time, but I said it wouldnt be that long. She ends the call crying "I really dont like how youre treating me, I dont deserve this, I deserve better", ending the relationship and hanging up.

 

I call her an hour later, she doesnt respond, so I go home. We dont see each other or talk the next day.

 

I ran into her the next day at the gym (2 days after the breakup), and she was stone cold. I asked her why she didnt call me back, since we agreed that Id come later, and again - nothing. I try talking to her and eventually she tells me that she doesnt think its gonna work out, its better this way, etc.

 

Thing is, I dont really think its the way she truly feels. Her eyes were trembling when she spoke to me, and even after we stopped talking at the gym, she kept staring/looking for me, and asking people about me/stalking my social media. I get the feeling that shes just trying to maintain her power in the relationship, or she doesn’t want to admit she’s wrong.... not that she actually wants to break up, judging from her past behavior. I suppose its always possible that I'm wrong, but I truly dont think so.

 

Anyway, my question is not what you think about the relationship, but moreso, how did I handle the phone call where she begged me to come to her house to talk to her? (and I refused) Was I being a dick because I didn’t feel like speaking to her at the moment? Was it a mistake to not take her up on the offer to speak then and there? Just looking for feedback on my actions here, not hers.

 

 

I know that what she wants is for me to apologize to her so she can feel in control, but I didnt do anything wrong (an in fact, I called her out on something in the act). And thats not right.

Edited October 13, 2018 by beowulf44

[OnlyHonesty]

but these are some of the negative ones that I'm just trying to learn to deal with.

 

 

 

 

Ive said it before, and I will say it again. Guys, stop putting up with bull****. No matter what she looks like, how hot she is, or how good the sex is. Have dignity, self respect, and boundaries...and enforce them. Boundaries without enforcement = doormat.

[OnlyHonesty]

^^^This. All. Day. Long.

 

Your 48 year old friend puts up with this from hot little crazy babes because he's 48 and not 28 anymore and his options are running out. He feels on top of the world when the hot, broken ones toss him a bone, but it's interesting how the well adjusted, emotionally whole 20-somethings probably won't give him the time of day.

 

 

 

 

I'm not far from that age and still wouldn't put up with any of that. However, most guys in general keep on asking me why I'm not going for it with exactly those types because they don't see it. Ive lost count of how many have tried to encourage me to go out with this 24 year old.

[KatCha]

Beowulf, an Epic for all time!

Humans sure had a few decent moments in time, to bad it is all passing away now...

[LoverOfDance]

She's not your gf. She broke up with you.

 

You didn't do anything wrong when you decided not to converse right away but go ahead and apologize if you at any point feel you should. Maybe there's a part of you that wants to live with the drama. Maybe you're so used to it you think it's normal.

[ExpatInItaly]

You handled it just fine, OP.

 

The problem is that you are trying to staple water to tree here. You can't reasonably resolve conflict with someone who is as immature as she is. So even though you approach it with an even and rational mind, it doesn't matter much when the other person isn't emotionally-equipped to handle a mature relationship - which includes resolving conflict like an adult rather than a temperamental teen.