Good rules for men in the dating world

[PRW]

Some men are worse misandrists than women.

True. That's probably 80% of them coming out in Universities and colleges today. They got the "toxic masculinity" beat out of them in most of their classes. They graduate as "little girls". Have you ever drove by a University and watch the kids walk down the sidewalks? Look at their demeanor. The girls look like they know where they are walking and what they are doing. The "boys" are walking with their heads down acting like whipped puppies following the girls down the side walk. Looks like the girls could bench press more than them too.

[PRW]

Talking about toxic masculinity does not necessarily make someone misandrist!

I've never met a woman that used it as part of her vocabulary who wasn't a misandrist. The exception would be ones who only use it as a "joke" to laugh at.

[Woggle]

Anecdotally my experience in "what works" differs from yours in that aspect.

 

 

Seriously, I doubt you even bothered to click on the link. So I'm not going to bother, either.

 

Yes I did and it is the same thing about how toxic masculinity also hurts men. I have no issue with the basic gist of the article but that term is often used by misandrists who view masculinity and men in and of themselves as toxic. I am just trying to tell men how to avoid heartache and strife.

[Els]

Yes I did and it is the same thing about how toxic masculinity also hurts men. I have no issue with the basic gist of the article but that term is often used by misandrists who view masculinity and men in and of themselves as toxic. I am just trying to tell men how to avoid heartache and strife.

 

So being concerned about men having a suicide rate that is 4x that of women makes someone a MISANDRIST????? :confused:

 

 

Clearly, preconceived notions are far more important than logic. So be it. I'm outta here, lol.

[PRW]

The last time I had the thought "mansplaining" on here (I didn't write it because I know how it would end), it was about a male poster who read everything we women had to say on a generic dating question and then told us we were all delusional. When the men agreed with the women on another thread, he said nothing. (I'll send you a link if you PM me).

 

 

No need. I'll tell them.

 

She's talking about me

[Woggle]

So being concerned about men having a suicide rate that is 4x that of women makes someone a MISANDRIST????? :confused:

 

 

Clearly, preconceived notions are far more important than logic. So be it. I'm outta here, lol.

 

I never said he himself was a misandrist. There are male misandrists who will throw other men under the bus for a pat on the head but he doesn't come across as one. I have no issue with most of what he is saying but I still look at women who use the term as a red flag. I am sorry but I do.

[Woggle]

Anyway let's address the other rules I posted instead of focusing on just one.

[alphamale]

True. That's probably 80% of them coming out in Universities and colleges today. They got the "toxic masculinity" beat out of them in most of their classes. They graduate as "little girls". Have you ever drove by a University and watch the kids walk down the sidewalks? Look at their demeanor. The girls look like they know where they are walking and what they are doing. The "boys" are walking with their heads down acting like whipped puppies following the girls down the side walk. Looks like the girls could bench press more than them too.

 

this de-masculinization of American men troubles me to no end. In 25 years it looks like mostly women will be running the country and men will be stuck at home cooking and cleaning and taking care of the kids

[Woggle]

The ironic thing is most women are not attracted to neutered men. They might say it but I see who has the best dating lives and who has marriages that last. Women do want good and faithful men for the most part but they also like strength and masculinity in men as well. If a man can combine these traits in one man he is already ten steps ahead of the game.

[PRW]

this de-masculinization of American men troubles me to no end. In 25 years it looks like mostly women will be running the country and men will be stuck at home cooking and cleaning and taking care of the kids

Europe is about 10 years ahead of the US in this decay, particularly Sweden from what I've seen and read. Ironically, wasn't Sweden where the Vikings came from?

[basil67]

Errrr, no. The equivalent of a incel or mgtow is a woman who believes things like sex is inherently misogynistic or that all men are pigs. All of the terms you mentioned in the bolded are legitimate terms that are used frequently in intellectual and academic discussion, by both male AND female researchers. "MGTOW" and "incel" are not. For instance, here is an article on toxic masculinity written by a man with concern about male well-being.

 

Elswyth, here's another by a renowned Australian male writer. He's genuinely worried about the direction men are headed https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/apr/09/about-the-boys-tim-winton-on-how-toxic-masculinity-is-shackling-men-to-misogyny

[littleblackheart]

General dating advice revolves around common sense, good timing, compatibility, basic mutual attraction and lots of shared values. Some men fare better as the brash, confident sorts, some men fare better as the intellectual, introverted sorts, mostly because we are all different with different and evolving needs, history and standards of behaviour.

 

Making it yet another gender thing is just weird, imo.

 

 

This forum here introduced me to the word 'mansplaning', which I took to mean 'a man explaning in an authoritative, dismissive, manner how I or every woman on the planet feels or has experienced and invalidates it because as an alpha (??) he obviously knows better'.

 

'Mysandrist' appears to mean 'anyone who doesn't agree with said alpha authority'. Synonymous with 'men hater'. Also see 'men basher'.

 

As though not liking one guy in particular or what he has to say equals not liking all men as a whole - that's some self-centered stretch that I would not find attractive or endearing in a man.

[somanymistakes]

Europe is about 10 years ahead of the US in this decay, particularly Sweden from what I've seen and read. Ironically, wasn't Sweden where the Vikings came from?

 

You'll also find plenty of viking humor out in the nordic countries, where the men will happily go off into the woods to hunt and hit things with axes AND do a bit of relaxing basket-weaving and flower-collecting because why should they be ashamed of anything?

 

Who's weaker, the man who likes what he likes, or the man who gets bullied out of his hobbies because someone said they're not manly enough?

[Woggle]

General dating advice revolves around common sense, good timing, compatibility, basic mutual attraction and lots of shared values. Some men fare better as the brash, confident sorts, some men fare better as the intellectual, introverted sorts, mostly because we are all different with different and evolving needs, history and standards of behaviour.

 

Making it yet another gender thing is just weird, imo.

 

 

This forum here introduced me to the word 'mansplaning', which I took to mean 'a man explaning in an authoritative, dismissive, manner how I or every woman on the planet feels or has experienced and invalidates it because as an alpha (??) he obviously knows better'.

 

'Mysandrist' appears to mean 'anyone who doesn't agree with said alpha authority'. Synonymous with 'men hater'. Also see 'men basher'.

 

As though not liking one guy in particular or what he has to say equals not liking all men as a whole - that's some self-centered stretch that I would not find attractive or endearing in a man.

 

If they direct it at one single man then of course that is not misandrist anymore than disagreeing with a woman is misogyny. No reasonable person would disagree with that but when people say men are trash or apply words like toxic masculinity or mansplaining to anything a man says or does then yes it is anti-male. If it isn't then let somebody say women are trash and not get called a misogynist.

[littleblackheart]

If they direct it at one single man then of course that is not misandrist anymore than disagreeing with a woman is misogyny. No reasonable person would disagree with that but when people say men are trash or apply words like toxic masculinity or mansplaining to anything a man says or does then yes it is anti-male. If it isn't then let somebody say women are trash and not get called a misogynist.

 

These people are such a minority, though. Honestly, I've never in my life met one person, be they a man or a woman, say all men / women are trash.

 

The words themselves probably don't matter as much as the attitudes, though. I don't know what 'toxic masculinity means' but I have more than once seen and experienced men dismissing women's accounts as invalid in gender-related topics and immediately labelling them as 'mysandrists' if they dared disagree some more.

 

If you want to get rid of the word, fine. But let's get rid of the attitude too - it's seriously off-putting.

[alphamale]

The ironic thing is most women are not attracted to neutered men. They might say it but I see who has the best dating lives and who has marriages that last. Women do want good and faithful men for the most part but they also like strength and masculinity in men as well. If a man can combine these traits in one man he is already ten steps ahead of the game.

 

women like men who are strong and have a backbone. if a woman can't respect her man then she's finished and so is he

[littleblackheart]

You don't have to say all men/women are trash to be a sexist, just like you don't have to say that all black/white people are trash to be racist. I think you are crossing the line into sexism the moment you start making up special terms like toxic masculinity, mansplaining, etc to describe the other sex. It's no better than the people that use...alternate words to describe other races. I wouldn't suggest someone date a racist or a sexist, and the signs for each are very similar. I think Woggle's rule to stay away from those ladies is sound advice.

 

You can't argue with a perception, I guess.

 

Like I said, I don't know what toxic masculinity is and got introduced to the word 'mansplaining' on LS - it seems to describe specific occurences of invalidating specific experiences by specific men at specific times, not what all men say at all times because they are men. These lazy short-cuts are unhelpful, imo.

 

IRL, I've heard a couple of dejected men I didn't want to date tell me it must be because 'I didn't like men'. Like it's the only possible explanation.

 

I do like men. Just not them...

[SevenCity]

However, pretending to be someone you're not, in order to attract a mate, is not going to work out in the long run. Eventually your partner will find out who you really are. If that's something she doesn't like, then she'll be twice as angry at you, once for being what she didn't want in the first place and once for lying about it.

 

If you can change yourself in small ways to get along better with other people, go for it.

 

But if your true self really does long to spend every weekend playing with model trains, you're better off rolling with it and waiting until you can find a partner who actually appreciates your hobby. It may take longer, but you'll have a better partnership in the end.

 

 

 

Women ARE NOT the same as each other. They EACH have different experiences, expectations, and motivations. To think that any individual woman will respond to logic and reason the exact same way as the woman standing next to her will be your downfall.

 

I mean, you've been on this forum a while, I'm sure you've noticed we don't all agree on things!

 

Point 1) People like consistency. Change upsets people (those already familiar with you) and they will do everything they can to ridicule you back into their comfort zone. By your logic, a fat dude who works hard at the gym and gets in great shape to be more attractive to women is just pretending? The man who realizes being shy is not working with women and acts outgoing is a faker?

 

Changing yourself is a valuable tool if you are unable to attract women. And why does it have to be a small change? Big changes are what make the difference. I’m not suggesting being something you don’t want to be, but there are MANY men who cannot get a girl to save their life. These guys would be happy to change to get women and no longer be alone.

 

Waiting for the “right girl” is a recipe for disaster. In a movie it might work, but do you think said model train guy will know how to keep a woman if it’s his first relationship? No, that requires previous experience. You want to have all your practice out of the way when you do meet a good woman.

 

Point 2) Of course there are subtle differences in women, but (in general) far more similarities. Same with men. We like simple, clear instructions. We are direct. Women, on the other hand, use indirect communication.

 

Women are also more emotional. How many times have you seen a woman cry at work? How many times have you seen a man cry at work?

 

Sure, you will find outliers just like anything, but if you play the odds the behavior is often predictable given similar input.

 

Assuming women are just like men is where a lot of men fail in relationships and picking up women. Knowing the differences increases your chances of success.

 

The book “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” has some great examples. Corey Wayne’s “How to be a 3% Man” is excellent source as well.

[snowcones]

I see all these men struggling when to me it doesn't have to be so hard. There are some simple rules to follow which have helped me greatly.

 

Always respect yourself and know how you deserve to be treated

 

Respect women and if they don't respectably then cut them off and move on

 

Work on building up your own life which means, career, finances, hobbies and passions and good women will naturally come into your circle

Be a gentlemen but don't be a doormat and don't let yourself get taken advantage of.

 

Women just like men have the right to say no and not be interested. Some people just are not into you and if that is the case just move on. It is nothing personal so don't get angry

 

Women are neither angels nor demons. They are simply people who aren't much different than you.

 

Stay away from women who hate men and say next if you hear her use misandrist dog whistles like toxic masculinity, patriarchy and mansplaining. Most women wouldn't touch an incel or mgtow with a ten foot pole so treat their female counterparts the same.

 

Just be you instead of feeling like you need to apply PUA tactics or run game or buy into the alpha vs beta crap. I said before that women are simply people so deal with them as such instead of treating them as chemicals that can be manipulated using tactics some snake oil salesman sells to insecure men.

 

This is how I operated when I was single and it worked perfectly.

 

What about if they are bitter? Like bitter or nasty about their ex?

[Woggle]

What about if they are bitter? Like bitter or nasty about their ex?

 

Stay away. Either they will take it out on you or in some cases they are still in love with their ex and will eventually leave you to go back to them.

[guest569]

Anecdotally my experience in "what works" differs from yours in that aspect.

 

 

Seriously, I doubt you even bothered to click on the link. So I'm not going to bother, either.

 

 

Im wishing I didn't bother clicking on this thread.

 

I knew what to expect.

[PRW]

These people are such a minority,

Then you must live in a cave. I'm surrounded by them.

[somanymistakes]

Point 1) People like consistency. Change upsets people (those already familiar with you) and they will do everything they can to ridicule you back into their comfort zone. By your logic, a fat dude who works hard at the gym and gets in great shape to be more attractive to women is just pretending? The man who realizes being shy is not working with women and acts outgoing is a faker?

 

Going to the gym more and getting into shape is not 'pretending' because that's an actual change. If, however, you tell the women you meet that you're a huge health nut and you looooove exercising all the time and blah blah blah, when actually you hate it and intend to quit doing it as soon as you've landed a partner? THEN you're pretending.

 

Many men have met women like that, you know. Ones who claimed to be all about fitness until they get married and then WHOMP the real couch potato comes out. It sucks to be sold a false story.

 

In the same way, if you actually become more outgoing, you are not faking. If you force yourself to go to parties in order to meet women, and lie that you love it in order to look 'more attractive', when you actually hate it, then you are faking.

 

Waiting for the “right girl” is a recipe for disaster. In a movie it might work, but do you think said model train guy will know how to keep a woman if it’s his first relationship? No, that requires previous experience.

 

Well, some nerds meet their fellow nerd soulmates, neither of them has any previous experience, and they remain happily together.

 

If you care most about having a partner, then of course you don't want to wait for a perfect match. Trying to find a perfect match is really hard, and there isn't guaranteed to BE a perfect match out there for everyone.

 

Somewhere in the middle is probably a better strategy.

 

Point 2) Of course there are subtle differences in women, but (in general) far more similarities. Same with men. We like simple, clear instructions. We are direct. Women, on the other hand, use indirect communication.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm both direct and indirect. And very fond of clear instructions. If you want me to do something SAY SO. Talking about feelings, on the other hand, much more likely to beat around the bush.

 

I can't cook, I own only one pair of shoes, I love computers, video games, and other nerdy things, I never wear makeup. Does this make me "manly"? I don't think so. I'm not even butch. There are millions of women much tougher than me.

 

Women are also more emotional. How many times have you seen a woman cry at work? How many times have you seen a man cry at work?

 

None to either. Who cries at work?

 

Men do cry less in general, in US culture. Less because of a biological difference and more because they've been vigorously trained out of showing emotion since childhood, in my experience. I've had many men talk to me about how they weren't allowed to cry.

 

Of course, the reason for the difference doesn't entirely matter when you're dealing with individuals because the difference is already there regardless.

 

Assuming women are just like men is where a lot of men fail in relationships and picking up women. Knowing the differences increases your chances of success.

 

They're not just like men, but they're not just like each other either. Learning to judge individuals as themselves is important to forging connections.

 

My pushback here is because I have occasionally seen bad dating advice insisting on differences that don't actually exist and encouraging both men and women to exacerbate those differences by behaving in stereotypical ways, when really, communication would be improved all around if they both just said what they meant instead of playing some weird romantic guessing game.

[Chilli]

Rules ,,,, what the !!!!!!!!

[Woggle]

Rules ,,,, what the !!!!!!!!

 

It is another word for advice or a guide. Everybody here knows I have been successful in the love department so I thought why not show other men what I have done to bring me such good fortune. People can argue with me all they want but I managed to have the kind of marriage and relationship that many people envy. I am living proof of this approach to dating working and producing results. I am not one of those people that gives good sounding advice while my own love life is a mess.