At the end of my rope after 22 years but stuck

[d0nnivain]

I don't know how to do it though. How do I respond when she asks me what she is supposed to do. I care for her, I don't want her to be homeless. I can't leave due to financial issues, I can't throw her out. I have no friends or family close I can stay with or that she can stay with. So what do people do in this situation? She isn't going to work to support herself, I have no doubts on that point.

 

How do i handle the inevitable move back to Texas because her family is there and it's cheaper for her to live argument? Not one part of me wants to go back to that place. My daughter doesn't want to leave, my son is indifferent. But kids are kids and I know they need two parents there for them, even if she can be mean at times and I want them to have that. I also worry that the court might take them away from me, she said before the courts always rule for the women and they often do.

 

You respond by saying that she should 1). get a job and 2). learn to live within the budget.

 

You said somewhere else that she has a therapist for her depression. Write to that person. While the doctor patient privilege precludes that therapist from talking to you or disclosing information to you, it does not preclude that person from listening to you or receiving information from you. So sit down & write the therapist a letter.

 

 

Dear Therapist:

 

I am [patient's] husband & I'

m

at my wit's end. She won't work. She refuses to live within our budget. She accuses me of being abusive when I won't give her more money after she spends the allocated amounts. She's not doing a good job taking care of the kids. I've done everything for her including moving our family here, taking on 3 jobs, & begging her to go to marriage counseling but she always blames me for all of the problems while taking no responsibility.

 

I need her to be an equal partner in their marriage or I need to get out. I write to you because she has expressed suicidal thoughts to me and claims their is a plan on her phone. Our children would be devastated if she took her own life. But I can't stay in this marriage unless she makes some real changes, including getting a job to help support our family.

 

Please know that divorce is probably coming & do what you need to do as her doctor to make sure she doesn't kill herself.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

anyoneelse.

 

 

 

When you talk to the lawyer that everyone is recommending you get, that person will tell you whether she can move the kids out of state. She probably can't.

 

 

I'm worried that she might take my kids and disappear to Texas with them. Do I talk to them before talking to her, let them know to dial 911 if she tries that? I'm also afraid she will take all our money and leave me unable to pay bills, do I go remove her from the joint account?

 

Is that really the best way to handle this, just get a lawyer and file papers? Someone else suggested not blindsiding her with that. I don;t want my kids to see their mom thrown out of the house, but I don;t see an alternative to that. I don't want this to drag out for months.

 

The order is as follows:

 

1. Talk to the lawyer.

 

2. Tell your kids.

 

3. Pay the lawyer.

 

4. Find out if you can file. Most states you have to be separate & apart -- not living together for some period time, usually a year, before you can file.

 

5. Inform her

 

Best wishes

[anyoneelse]

Yesterday was a rough day, she texted me at work and said we needed to talk about what was going on. We hadn't talked in two days and I had been staying downstairs in the spare bedroom. When I got home form work she asked me to tell her what was going on so I did.

 

I told her I didn't want any of this anymore that after she told me I made her life living hell I realized this would be the rest of our lives if I didn't stop it (you guys helped me see that, I can't thank you all enough). I told her I wanted a divorce, she cried and yelled a little. Told me she couldn't believe I didn't love her. Insisted we move back to Texas, I refused and told her I would not go back. the whole thing was surprisingly civil, more so than I expected. It could all turn, anything with her has a tendency to do that. She said she knew I was leaving after the way I reacted when she said I made HER life hell. Of course she is already rewriting history, saying that isn't what she said, but I will remember her words and the look on her face when she said that, with utter conviction, for the rest of my life. she maintains her heart is broken and she loves me, I said it didn't matter that I could not live like this any more.

 

She tried a few more things, got angry, said things, I told her this could be amicable and kind since we had to be in each other's lives for the kids forever, or it could get nasty, but I didn't want that and the decision was on her which way it went. she insisted that the kids could choose who they live with, then cried and said she knew they would choose me. They would but I would never make them choose between us. She accused me of moving her to Colorado to leave her, I told her I had hoped she would decide to live when we got here, but she didn't.

 

I told her to apply for housing assistance in Colorado that it was open for a single day, which happens to be tomorrow and Friday. I'm stuck in this house for another year paying way more rent than I ever wanted, but she loved the place and rental property is very expensive here and choices are slim. She wanted me to leave and for her and the kids to stay here, I asked her how exactly she thought she was going to pay all the bills and maintain the place without me.

 

I still don't know exactly what to do, the pragmatic side of me wants to fill out and file divorce papers myself, we can in this state. There is no waiting periods according to my research in Colorado, you can file and be divorced in 91 days depending on court backups. She wants alimony and pointed out in this state she can have up to 40% of my income. That part is accurate and very disturbing. If they took 40% of my income I'd literally be homeless. I'd lose my home, my car, I couldn't feed the kids, I could't buy them clothes or get to work. She wants primary custody of the kids, this will likely be the sticking point because if she has primary she can take them back to Texas. I make vastly more here (literally tens of thousands of dollars) than I can there and the financials would not work for bills and our debt there even though this state is more expensive for housing.

 

With her spending problems and my inability to control her we have so much debt we aren't even paying now like Student Loans and IRS. She spent so much I had to get into the IRS money for years to cover bills and live (I have significant 1099 income on top of my full time job, I made well into six figures last year and we were broke all the time). I was terrible with money years and years ago when the economy was good and I made much more than I do now so some of that IRS business is certainly on me. I want to leave some of those 1099 jobs, i have wanted to for years but couldn't with her spending. I want to be there for my kids more, to have time to hike with them after work or just sit and watch TV with them. I don't have any time during the week as it is now working 14-15 hours a day.

 

I could realistically be forced to give her about $700 monthly on top of our bills and still be functional and not broke completely unable to even buy my kids a hamburger. My hope is that the courts won't take that much or that we can come to an agreement outside of court and we can file ourselves. Realistically if we start paying back those student loans there won't be any extra money or at least very little. she has 6 figures in loans and never finished a degree plan, mine are that much after years of being unable to afford payments and using deferrals. The upside is that this is a no fault state and she will own half that debt and can't leave it all on me.

 

first step is to separate our financials further I guess, remove her from the joint account and start to give her money in her account exclusively instead. I need to remove myself form her credit card in her name. Some of the charges on there are from me so I will work again to pay it off over the next few months and then it will be on her and won't hurt my credit if she doesn't pay. I will remove her from my card where she is an authorized user.

 

As for the filing myself, I could do that with nothing but the court fee of $230 and forms freely available online. That assumes we can come to an agreement. If I get an attorney, it will be a few months before I have the money to do that and I just want this done ASAP. She wants to talk to the kids today, I want to let them know as well so we will do that this afternoon. Thoughts?

Edited August 1, 2018 by anyoneelse

[BaileyB]

I think you are fooling yourself if you think she is not going to fight for every penny she can get! When the reality of the situation sets in and she is feeling the pressure of finding her own way in this world financially, you will see another side of your wife.

 

You would be wise to go for a free consultation with a lawyer. I think you are going to need one...

[Downtown]

Too many years hoping that the next doctor visit will be the one that brings back the woman I fell in love with.

Likewise, I spent 15 years taking my BPDer exW to weekly sessions with six different psychologists and 3 MCs. It cost me a small fortune, all to no avail. As with you, I was mistakenly convinced that my exW would take advantage of the professional guidance and learn how to manage her emotions. Sadly, all that therapy failed to make a dent in her BPD behaviors. Not one dent.

 

She insisted that the kids could choose who they live with, then cried and said she knew they would choose me. They would but I would never make them choose between us.

As you know all too well, whatever she is agreeing to today can change 180 degrees in a few days. It therefore is wise to follow your lawyer's advice on how to prevent her from taking them back to Texas.

 

As a practical matter, however, the kids likely will live with the parent they want to live with. At the ages of 14 and 17, they are old enough to make life miserable for any parent they do not want to live with.

[anyoneelse]

I think you are fooling yourself if you think she is not going to fight for every penny she can get! When the reality of the situation sets in and she is feeling the pressure of finding her own way in this world financially, you will see another side of your wife.

 

You would be wise to go for a free consultation with a lawyer. I think you are going to need one...

 

So true, it all changed when she woke up this morning. She informed me she wasn't going to let me "throw her under the bus" and now she wants to specifically tell the kids this is my decision to divorce and that she doesn't want to. I begged her to not put them in the middle, but she is going to. she is insistent on her getting 60% custody of the kids, she wont say why she wants majority. i assume it to be because she wants to take them back to Texas.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think you are fooling yourself if you think she is not going to fight for every penny she can get! When the reality of the situation sets in and she is feeling the pressure of finding her own way in this world financially, you will see another side of your wife.

 

You would be wise to go for a free consultation with a lawyer. I think you are going to need one...

 

You’re going to also need to be realistic about what the courts might award her. You’re focused on your bills, hers will get similar weight.

 

You each have $100K+ in debt???

 

Mr. Lucky

[darkmoon]

she was not like this before you married?

 

 

I see a controlled theatre

[BaileyB]

So true, it all changed when she woke up this morning. She informed me she wasn't going to let me "throw her under the bus" and now she wants to specifically tell the kids this is my decision to divorce and that she doesn't want to. I begged her to not put them in the middle, but she is going to. she is insistent on her getting 60% custody of the kids, she wont say why she wants majority. i assume it to be because she wants to take them back to Texas.

 

I thought her tune would change when she was faced with the reality of her financial situation.

 

One good question for the lawyer - if she does move to Texas (which I don’t think she can), would she be responsible for paying the cost to fly the kids to you for visitation. You should be entitled to shared custody.

 

Is your first call this morning going to be to a lawyer for a free consultation?

 

Don’t fall for her manipulation. She is not a lawyer, ahe knows nothing about which she speaks! And, she has a vested interested in getting things to go her way... she probably thinks if she ratchets up the threats that you will back down... it seems like this strategy has worked for her before.

[BluesPower]

So true, it all changed when she woke up this morning. She informed me she wasn't going to let me "throw her under the bus" and now she wants to specifically tell the kids this is my decision to divorce and that she doesn't want to. I begged her to not put them in the middle, but she is going to. she is insistent on her getting 60% custody of the kids, she wont say why she wants majority. i assume it to be because she wants to take them back to Texas.

 

If she has been hospitalized as much as you say... There is no way that she will get that much custody. It is just not going to happen.

 

But you need to file now, because you need to get some ground rules.

 

As I said before, this is one time in your life where you have no choice but to be strong, for your kids and for you.

 

Here is another thing, she is too sick to get a job, but she has no trouble spending vast amounts of money.

 

Does that at all seem strange to you?????

[Whodatdog]

Theres way too many moving parts here for you not to get a good divorce lawyer. It might end up taking a few months longer, but in the context of this being the rest of your life you are dealing with, whats a few months if you can get a decent divorce settlement.

 

Find a lawyer quickl

[brigit87]

Here is another thing, she is too sick to get a job, but she has no trouble spending vast amounts of money.

 

Does that at all seem strange to you?????

 

That's not strange at all. It's easy to go into a store pick up an expensive item and pay for it. Jobs take a certain level of emotional maturity which his wife doesn't seem to have.

[Mr. Lucky]

Here is another thing, she is too sick to get a job, but she has no trouble spending vast amounts of money.

 

That's not strange at all. It's easy to go into a store pick up an expensive item and pay for it. Jobs take a certain level of emotional maturity which his wife doesn't seem to have.

 

In this day and age, she can spend a fortune from the comfort of her easy chair, and if she's a sucker for those ceramic figurines, I'd guess that's what has occurred. My MIL racked up significant debt buying Hummels this way, we found boxes of them in the garage after she passed...

 

Mr. Lucky

[d0nnivain]

Do not be penny wise & pound foolish. Filling out your divorce papers yourself only works when the couple is getting an amical divorce & not fighting over money. Law is not a self help proposition. You will lose your shirt & your mind trying to untangle your marriage without a lawyer. Pay for the expertise. You will save a fortune in the long run.

[anyoneelse]

Originally Posted by BluesPower View Post

Here is another thing, she is too sick to get a job, but she has no trouble spending vast amounts of money.

 

She tends to have the energy to go and do things with friends, but not to help me. That has started many fights between us.

 

I haven't been able to get an attorney to call me back yet to set up an appointment. Those who have been through this, can they set alimony so high that I can't pay the bills or live? She says she has to live to and seems to be sticking to that 30% of my gross idea "this is all you, you are breaking up this home and hurting our kids I WANT IT TO WORK so i'm getting what I deserve" If the debt like student loans, IRS, and credit cards are half hers, would the debt for the cars not be half hers too? As in on the hook for half the payments? I thought telling her and the kids was the hard part.

 

My kids didn't take it well and that was very hard for me

[BluesPower]

She tends to have the energy to go and do things with friends, but not to help me. That has started many fights between us.

 

I haven't been able to get an attorney to call me back yet to set up an appointment. Those who have been through this, can they set alimony so high that I can't pay the bills or live? She says she has to live to and seems to be sticking to that 30% of my gross idea "this is all you, you are breaking up this home and hurting our kids I WANT IT TO WORK so i'm getting what I deserve" If the debt like student loans, IRS, and credit cards are half hers, would the debt for the cars not be half hers too? As in on the hook for half the payments? I thought telling her and the kids was the hard part.

 

My kids didn't take it well and that was very hard for me

 

She had no REAL reason not to work. She asked for astronomical money in the beginning.

 

She got a good equity in the house, I bought her out of my retirement, my kids were grown, so no child support.

 

All of the above paid out over 7 years, because she wanted an income stream.

 

Your wife has ZERO idea what she is talking about, she is reading a web site that talks about the MAXIMUM allowed by the law, they never get that.

 

Further, because my wife was insane, I told her that I would put all three children on the stand to testify to it.

 

She took the deal...

 

Get at shark lawyer, no matter how much it cost. And get rid of her.

 

It will be worth every penny that you spend... DO NOT LISTEN TO HER, she is trying to manipulate you like she has been doing for years...

[Els]

She tends to have the energy to go and do things with friends, but not to help me. That has started many fights between us.

 

I haven't been able to get an attorney to call me back yet to set up an appointment. Those who have been through this, can they set alimony so high that I can't pay the bills or live? She says she has to live to and seems to be sticking to that 30% of my gross idea "this is all you, you are breaking up this home and hurting our kids I WANT IT TO WORK so i'm getting what I deserve" If the debt like student loans, IRS, and credit cards are half hers, would the debt for the cars not be half hers too? As in on the hook for half the payments? I thought telling her and the kids was the hard part.

 

My kids didn't take it well and that was very hard for me

 

 

These are all questions you should be asking your lawyer. Nobody here can possibly answer you, especially given that we don't even know which jurisdiction you live in.

[brigit87]

She tends to have the energy to go and do things with friends, but not to help me. That has started many fights between us.

 

I haven't been able to get an attorney to call me back yet to set up an appointment. Those who have been through this, can they set alimony so high that I can't pay the bills or live? She says she has to live to and seems to be sticking to that 30% of my gross idea "this is all you, you are breaking up this home and hurting our kids I WANT IT TO WORK so i'm getting what I deserve" If the debt like student loans, IRS, and credit cards are half hers, would the debt for the cars not be half hers too? As in on the hook for half the payments? I thought telling her and the kids was the hard part.

 

My kids didn't take it well and that was very hard for me

 

I'm so sorry about what you're going through. Just reading this is stressing me out.

 

How did you live like this? I mean before the kids came around didn't she spend all the money like crazy? Debt like this doesn't happen overnight.

 

At this point I'm wondering if declaring bankruptcy or something like that might be better? IDK.

[anyoneelse]

I'm so sorry about what you're going through. Just reading this is stressing me out.

 

How did you live like this? I mean before the kids came around didn't she spend all the money like crazy? Debt like this doesn't happen overnight.

 

At this point I'm wondering if declaring bankruptcy or something like that might be better? IDK.

 

Until about 10-15 years ago we were so broke there was no money for her to spend. For much of our marriage if we had $10 left we thought we were rich

[brigit87]

Until about 10-15 years ago we were so broke there was no money for her to spend. For much of our marriage if we had $10 left we thought we were rich

 

So for years she didn't spend any money?

[Mr. Lucky]

At this point I'm wondering if declaring bankruptcy or something like that might be better? IDK.

 

anyoneelse, you didn't answer this question:

 

You each have $100K+ in debt???

 

If this is true, BKR is indeed another topic to discuss with a competent specialist...

 

Mr. Lucky

[glows]

Definitely see a lawyer. You might also want to start documenting every event that happens, every issue, every fight (verbal or physical). Record the date, record the time and the event in factual format, not a Shakespeare play or a doctorate thesis novella style. Get some professional help.

[anyoneelse]

anyoneelse, you didn't answer this question:

 

 

 

If this is true, BKR is indeed another topic to discuss with a competent specialist...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

You can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy, so what's the point. When I have more control over fiances I will work something out with the IRS. Those are both big debts, but the only two. Student loans have been a waking nightmare.

 

I did talk to a lawyer today, it sounds like I am pretty screwed in Colorado. She will get child support and alimony via a formula if we press it all the way to court with no consideration for the bills we have now and that is what she wants (to press it to court). it will probably mean I get cars repossessed if it's worst case and may not be able to pay this crazy high rent for a house she wanted. at best I wont have a dollar to my name after the bills are paid. I feel like she took advantage of me for two decades and now the state is going to let her continue that for 11 more years. Lawyer suggested trying to get her to agree to something out of court and just file ourselves. she still wants her "fair share." and this is a no fault state, it doesn't matter what she has done or said.

Edited August 2, 2018 by anyoneelse

[d0nnivain]

Actually under certain very limited but dire circumstances you can discharge some student loans in bankruptcy now. You need to speak to a bankruptcy lawyer about this.

[Mr. Lucky]

You need to speak to a bankruptcy lawyer about this.

 

Couldn't agree more. anyoneelse, this board has served to define and refine some of the issues for you, glad you got something from it.

 

But it's time to leave well-intentioned strangers like us behind and bring in the experts. You have a complex set of interwoven legal, financial and marital problems that won't be easy to resolve. Get the right help...

 

Mr. Lucky

[anyoneelse]

the worst part of this is the effect on my kids. My daughter and i have always been very close, my son too but he is more distant than her because of his Asperger's. My son seems to be ok, though i know he is hurting inside.

 

My daughter doesn't want to come home now, she wants to stay at her grandparents and be here as little as possible. She doesn't want to do anything with me, we were looking forward to offroading when i was off call for a few weeks now and she doesn't want to go. She wants to go back to Texas and stay with my dad for a week or so before school starts. Advice on what I should do?

 

My heart says give her time, but it kills me to see her in pain and for her to not want to be with me.