Husband is a mess

[karenina21]

I really appreciate everyone being so supportive and for not judging me or being negative. It's very refreshing in a world where people increasingly go out of their way to tear each other down.

 

Last night my husband seemed a bit better. He is still down, but he asked if we could go out to a nice dinner. I very gently spoke with him. I told him how much I loved and was proud of him. I said that if he truly felt that he cannot handle this job then I would rather him quit because no job is worth his health. I said that I was very worried about him and concerned, and that I wanted him to speak with his family and see a therapist. He agreed that he would speak with his brother and parents this weekend and that he would be willing to see a counselor as well. He then agreed to go to the grocery store with me and get some "grab and go" stuff for him to take with him to work, and he did take it this morning.

 

He says that the people are nice there and his colleagues are extremely smart with similar skills to his, however, one of the big things bothering him is that the new boss is simultaneously MIA and micromanages everyone in this place, and there's only about 10 people total including him. There are cameras everywhere and while my husband certainly understands the need for security, it just feels very smothering and big brother. He also says that this new boss will not meet with him in regards to any kind of training plan or direction, even though the boss "wants him to learn." So he's been shadowing another senior engineer. Some of the items on the task list he can do no problem. Other things he's not done before and he's been thrown to the wolves with no help. So he's feeling overwhelmed, inadequate in some respects, bored in other respects, lost in a lot of respects, and micromanaged as well.

 

He took the job on the premise from both interviews that the company was seeking a senior engineer with his skill set and at his level to help grow the company but who could also learn new technologies. So far, he says it appears this boss, who is the owner, isn't interested in growing at all, and can't see where the other engineers are applying these skills that were mentioned in the interview. Again, I'm not sure if they're purposely starting him out slow or if this is the everyday of it. He certainly didn't take the job because he thought it would be easy; my husband thrives on challenge and works hard, and would never do something just because it's easy. He's worked before in all kinds of less-than-ideal circumstances and customer sites, and has had to learn plenty of new things, which he's always done well at. But when you start a new job after 7 years at a place, it's going to be a major life shift.

 

He told me that he would feel worse if he quit without giving it a chance. I told him okay, but again if you really feel like you have to leave then do it and continue to tell me how you are truly feeling about things.

 

One thing that could be affecting him is that his oldest brother died a little over a year ago and that really affected his mother; she was in a mental hospital for several months last year. She is home and doing better now, but seeing her that way was a major shock. He hasn't said much about either. He wasn't close to his oldest brother and says he's over it and **** happens. But I know for a fact that what went on with his mother really got to him, especially because of how it affected his father and that she began unraveling close to his birthday last year.

 

So I'm not sure if those are factors in why he's been the way he is, in addition to taking a huge pay cut and coming to grips with the layoff after 7 years of success. He did also mention to me last night that he knows he can keep looking and that he could even consider contract jobs as well.

 

I myself am worried because though we can get by with the pay cut it's quite a bit less, and we also have to get healthcare on the exchange since it's not provided at this place, and costs for Obamacare are going up, up, up. I'm very afraid of rising premiums and having healthcare become unaffordable for us. I don't want to quit my business and it would take some time to do that anyways, I can't just up and leave. But I'm thinking I may have to get something that can cover the benefits if he stays at this place into next year.

 

It seemed he was genuine in all that he said at dinner last night so I hope he wasn't paying lip service. I called a therapy place that I have been to in the past and they were awesome to me (I saw them when I lost my father to cancer). I explained the situation and they are setting up an appointment for him through me (they're calling me back after they put in the intake information and determine who the best therapist for him would be along with schedules that coordinate with our availability). I will then tell him I scheduled it and hopefully he will go. Short of trying to physically drag a grown man into a car, I know that I cannot force him or threaten him; that's just going to make him retreat and not talk to me, and that's the last thing we need now. If he doesn't go or seems worse, I will get his family to come here and get more involved. And if he doesn't call his family this weekend, I am going to tell them what's going on myself.

[bathtub-row]

It sounds like you’ve done all you could and it’s great that you got him to open up to you. I know engineer types can seem very pragmatic and they may have trouble dealing with heavy emotions. While he may not have been deeply affected by his brother’s death, no doubt his mother’s crisis hit him hard. When we get older and watch the family dynamics change, it’s not always fun. We can sometimes become very disillusioned.

 

I, too, hope he’s being upfront with you but there’s little you can do if he’s not. Men identify with their jobs very closely and I can see how this switch would have a tough effect on him, aside from the other recent happenings. I hope all goes well and please keep us posted. Best wishes.

[d0nnivain]

A death in the family will have anyone off kilter. Three of the biggest stressors are: death, getting fired & changing jobs. Even though a simple job change can be a good thing, it's still stressful.

 

Keep doing the best you can to love him through this. Text him happy supportive messages every few days.

[Mr. Lucky]

It seemed he was genuine in all that he said at dinner last night so I hope he wasn't paying lip service. I called a therapy place that I have been to in the past and they were awesome to me (I saw them when I lost my father to cancer). I explained the situation and they are setting up an appointment for him through me (they're calling me back after they put in the intake information and determine who the best therapist for him would be along with schedules that coordinate with our availability). I will then tell him I scheduled it and hopefully he will go. Short of trying to physically drag a grown man into a car, I know that I cannot force him or threaten him; that's just going to make him retreat and not talk to me, and that's the last thing we need now. If he doesn't go or seems worse, I will get his family to come here and get more involved. And if he doesn't call his family this weekend, I am going to tell them what's going on myself.

 

Well done. Keep us posted, would be nice to hear he's making progress...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Fugu]

I don't know if your husband needs a counselor, but he's clearly unhappy and feeling like he's taking on the big, bad world by himself. I do agree that he's vulnerable.

 

What you might propose to him is joining a job search club. I had no idea there was such a thing, but basically it's like a meet-up or 'book club' group, but for job searching. A colleague of mine has done this and says the emotional support alone is great. But it's not just emotional support that helps - people hold each other accountable. They encourage each other but also hold their feet to the fire if they don't do specific things they all agree to do, like send out X number of applications or meet with X number of people.

[karenina21]

He continues to hate the job and be miserable. I saw my own counselor last week and she agreed he is in a vulnerable state and needs help. She is going to work with me on my own depression and anxiety issues. I've missed my dad since he died in 2015, I'm under tremendous stress trying to grow a struggling business (or decide to ditch it and get another corporate job), and I'm under even more stress now with his job situation and misery.

 

I've tried to follow my counselor's advice to be compassionate and caring toward him, to tell him I understand and empathize with how he's feeling, etc. But I can't do that 24/7 and get no support myself. Last night, he told me he has no interest in anything, doesn't want to talk to his family, doesn't want to go for a walk, doesn't want to see our friends. He's isolating us and I'm at my wits' end trying to prevent it.

 

At about 2 this morning, realizing that it's six years to the day I graduated from grad school on top of the world with a great job and no worries, and realizing that Sunday is Father's Day, I held my father's picture and bawled my eyes out. He would understand this situation; he went through layoffs three times when I was a kid, and he hated his boss in one of his jobs. And he's not here. He's the only one in the world I want to talk to. I was crying so hard that my hands and arms shook while holding his picture, and my husband came out and found me in the living room because I woke him up. He comforted me and we went back to bed, but not before I told him that I can't stand seeing him the way he is, that I'd give anything to talk to my father again and see him, and that his not speaking to his family kills me. I've been so upset for months now with my own woes, and this has added to it. I can barely sleep at night. I lie awake next to him and read.

 

He does have a counseling appointment himself next week. He filled out some of the paperwork with me yesterday and I will keep on him to finish it. I told him he needs to keep the appointment (it's after hours at 6) and go no matter what. I said this place needs no explanation other than saying he needs to leave on time for an appointment that can't be rescheduled. What he does off hours is none of their business. I offered to go with him if he wants and that is up to him.

 

Between worrying about him, adjusting to the pay cut, trying to figure out how to ramp up my business (which has dropped off in the midst of all this), looking for a corporate job to ease the strain, missing my father, and dealing with being on Obamacare (this new job of his doesn't offer healthcare) and the exorbitant costs of that (we don't qualify for subsidies), I'm afraid of bringing on a new attack of MS. I haven't had one in six years, but stress has always brought them on in the past.

 

Can anyone suggest anything else to get us out of this black cloud of hell over our heads? One central question is how can he interview elsewhere if he can't take time off from a new job? This place watches all its employees like a hawk. There are cameras everywhere pointing at the desks, in the hallway, break room, etc. He feels very ill at ease because it's a small house that was converted to an office, there are only 10 employees, and it's just too big brother for him. They micromanage employees down to the minute with an entire day's schedule and how long each thing should take. He's talked to a few of the guys there (he says they're nice) and most are set in their ways like the boss - unwilling to grow or change. The one who isn't like that has skills similar to my husband that he's also not using. The guy told my husband he has basically settled until he can find something else. Another colleague told my husband he's leaving because he needs a new challenge and his skills are stagnating. So it's not him - this place sucks.

 

He's afraid of even taking 10 minutes to text or call me without someone breathing down his throat. He also doesn't get a predictable time for lunch each day due to the nature of what he does. When is he supposed to call recruiters back and do phone screens and in-person interviews? Will employers accommodate a request to meet before or after work? And if not, what are we going to do since we can't afford for him to quit?

 

I feel so hopeless.

[d0nnivain]

Can anyone suggest anything else to get us out of this black cloud of hell over our heads?

 

One central question is how can he interview elsewhere if he can't take time off from a new job? He's afraid of even taking 10 minutes to text or call me without someone breathing down his throat. He also doesn't get a predictable time for lunch each day due to the nature of what he does. When is he supposed to call recruiters back and do phone screens and in-person interviews? Will employers accommodate a request to meet before or after work? And if not, what are we going to do since we can't afford for him to quit?.

 

To help with the black cloud try keeping a gratitudes journal together. My therapist had me do one & it helps because it forces you to focus on the good things in your life. Every morning you have to write down 3 things that you are grateful for. They can be trivial or profound. Every night the same thing. They should be different but some repeats are OK. throughout the long cold winter I was grateful for my flannel sheets & down comforter a lot. Each day re-read the journal so you see some goodness in your life.

 

 

As for interviewing many recruiters etc understand the need to balance current employment with the search. Can he call before work at 8:00 a.m. or after work at 6ish? If you can get the schedule in advance taking one day off to have multiple interviews with different companies might work.

[bathtub-row]

I really don’t get this high level of depression your husband is going through. It seems very much over the top. Anyway, he looks for a job the way everyone else does who’s working full time — apply when he’s off work, respond when he’s off work or during lunch. Employers understand that people working can’t respond right away. When he has an interview, schedule it either as early or late as he can, or during lunch, and tell the people at the office that he has an appointment. It’s not really that complicated. If they want to fire him for taking time off, then he needs to quit. Are there any recruiters he could contact?

 

I’m really sorry about your dad and what you’re going through. I think you really have enough on your plate right now. I’m so sorry.

[Mr. Lucky]

At about 2 this morning, realizing that it's six years to the day I graduated from grad school on top of the world with a great job and no worries, and realizing that Sunday is Father's Day, I held my father's picture and bawled my eyes out. He would understand this situation; he went through layoffs three times when I was a kid, and he hated his boss in one of his jobs. And he's not here. He's the only one in the world I want to talk to. I was crying so hard that my hands and arms shook while holding his picture, and my husband came out and found me in the living room because I woke him up.

 

You both seem somewhat stuck, for lack of a better word. The loss of a parent is a huge blow, but 3 years is long enough to put that grief in perspective and understand, were he here, this isn't the state your Dad would want you to be in.

 

It might indeed be time for you to get a job with security and benefits. I understand the allure of growing your own business but life is often what happens while we're making plans to do other things. Since your H seems barely functional, you need to take charge...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Malin889]

My new job is very stressful and long hours, and it's hard to find time to look for other jobs, or take time off for my daughter's activities or appointments, or do much of anything extracurricular. I haven't gone in a downward spiral like your husband, so what I'm guessing is that his depression has to do with his family - the brother who passed on, and whatever happened with his mother. He says he's ok to do with his brother, but he's obviously not. I think a combination of his family and his getting laid off has taken a big toll on him.

[bathtub-row]

Karenina, how are things going with your husband? Any new developments?

[karenina21]

So, two weeks ago after a very long discussion in which he said he was depressed and needed professional help, he quit the job. He said he just could not mentally handle it. I felt like I could not force him to do something if he was cracking at the seams, so I agreed, even though I am only working part time trying to boot strap a business and we have 7 months of savings - that's it.

 

He began seeing a counselor whom he likes and I am also seeing one as well. We are both suffering from anxiety and depression.

 

However, I hate myself for this, but I find myself sometimes feeling angry at him. He put us in this situation, and now, I have been looking for another corporate job and am thinking that I have to put my business aside after several years of trying to build it, so that we have some kind of steady income. Meanwhile he's getting a few calls and interviews but not too many. And he complains about this job or that job that he hates doing this component or he won't use his skills at this place. Right now he's being considered for a job that's even more of a pay cut than the one he took at the job he just quit. They asked him to build a virtual server as part of the interview process. He's downstairs working on it but bitched and moaned to me about how he hates working with this particular equipment and the hiring manager has no personality. I told him, "I don't know what to tell you."

 

I mean, he needs a damn job, and beggars can't be choosers...yet, I do understand wanting to find something he likes doing and pays well. But money doesn't grow on trees and perhaps we need to just do what we need to do for right now. Last night he told me a big part of his depression is he feels like I act more like his personal career coach than a wife. Well, I'm sorry, but I'm a bit worried about losing my house in 7 months if he can't land somewhere or I can't or both.

[d0nnivain]

If he's getting interviews see what happens. In the short term encourage him to take something . . . anything for the income or delegate things in your business to boost your profits. Get him to do the bulk of the housework. As a generalization many men will happily go running back to work after being a stay at home dad. Listen to Lonestar's song Mr. Mom for a quick chuckle.

[Art_Critic]

So he blames you for his depression... nice....

You have every right to feel the way you do but I wouldn't count on him, he seems like he is going to go down further before he bounces back up.

I would in your head give him a target date to have a job, say 2-4 weeks and if he isn't doing it then go get one yourself and backburner the business..

 

Bills and roof over your head come first.

 

If you are okay then you both will be okay, if he is okay then you both will be okay but one of you needs to be on sure ground...

[Mr. Lucky]

However, I hate myself for this, but I find myself sometimes feeling angry at him. He put us in this situation, and now, I have been looking for another corporate job and am thinking that I have to put my business aside after several years of trying to build it, so that we have some kind of steady income.

 

I'd gently suggest that both your approaches seem unrealistic given your present circumstances. It is somewhat unfair of you to resent him for doing the same as you - pursuing a desired career path.

 

Regardless, time for both of you to put nose to grindstone to get things back on track...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Whodatdog]

If you have been working at a business for several years and its still not profitable, it may be time to put that aside and get a full time corporate job for the family. If your at-home job isnt profitable, it would mean that you are still sinking money into it, and you dont have that luxury now. Im sure hubby will get a job, it just may not be making what he was before. Sometimes we just have to do what we have to do.

[karenina21]

If you have been working at a business for several years and its still not profitable, it may be time to put that aside and get a full time corporate job for the family. If your at-home job isnt profitable, it would mean that you are still sinking money into it, and you dont have that luxury now. Im sure hubby will get a job, it just may not be making what he was before. Sometimes we just have to do what we have to do.

 

The reason we made the arrangement we made for me to do a part time business while he supported most things was because I have MS. See earlier in the discussion. I had a corporate career that I lost because of MS. So I have been doing what I can.

 

I have been starting to look for another corporate position and did interview for one. I'm waiting to hear. Things aren't as easy as you think. Everyone on here is just like "well he needs to get a job," "give him two weeks," "find a job yourself." I can tell you that despite the rosy reports, finding a job isn't as easy as it appears.

 

Today he blew up at me after I simply sighed when he said he needs his car looked at for a problem. I'm sorry for being human. I'm worried about our finances (we have six months of savings), paying the bills, and keeping our house. He feels it too and I understand. But he yelled at me, saying he spends more money on the cats than himself, that I'm no longer his wife but his roommate, and that it's not worth it anymore, that perhaps jumping off a bridge like his brother did would feel good to him. Just horrible things he said, and then when I told him he better call his counselor if he truly felt that way, he told me to go away and he'd just deal with it.

 

I, the counselor, and his family have all been telling him to give himself a break before he burns out, that he can't spend 24/7 on a job search, that he needs a bit of time for relaxation and a hobby to remain sane. He won't listen. I commend his drive to get additional training and certifications and applying for things. But if I try to make any suggestions - such as don't apply for just anything and everything, because that doesn't work - he says he doesn't need me as a job counselor.

 

I don't know what to do. I've been sick for the past two weeks with a bad respiratory infection but working the entire time because I need to take whatever work I can, so I haven't rested and haven't recovered. The stress I'm under I'm afraid is going to lead to another MS attack. I am seeing my own counselor but what do I do? I don't know how to manage this anymore. He says he wants nothing from me.

 

I've told him he needs to go home to Delaware for awhile and see the family and unplug, and he won't. He won't do what anyone suggests who's trying to help him. He's had interviews but no offers. I don't know what the answer is. I just hope we have a roof over our heads after Christmas.

[karenina21]

I feel worthless, hopeless, and helpless. Collectively he's been out of work almost 4 months. The longer your'e out the less hiring managers want to give you a chance. I feel like nothing is worth anything anymore. I feel like there's no way out of this mess and dealing with him. On top of being sick I've had nightmare clients this week. It's rare but it happens. This morning I was so frustrated and overwhelmed that I beat my hands on my laptop so hard I really hurt them, knocking out all the wires and was forced to reboot the computer. But after that I focused and did what I needed to do. So at least there's that.

[JuneL]

Perhaps you can just trust your husband would do what is best in terms of his job search. Don’t try to act like his job counselor. It sounds like both of you can’t can’t handle stress well, and are making each other feeling worse.

[bathtub-row]

Maybe I’m an idiot but the last thing I’d be doing while out of work and watching my money disappear is paying money for counseling. I consider that a luxury, not a necessity. But that’s just me.

 

I hear your frustration. You’re basically married to a child. But the thing is, you need to stop making suggestions and trying to fix him. It may be hard but you need to let it go.

 

Have you considered government support for your condition? I don’t typically suggest that kind of thing but you have a legitimate health problem which makes it very hard to work.

 

You know, sometimes you just have to stop and breathe and quit letting the situation eat at you the way it is. I get it that this is a very high stress situation but you’re actually worsening it by letting it get to you this way. Look into getting financial help from the government and make a decision about what you’ll do if neither of you get jobs and if nothing improves. For instance, will you sell your house? If so, don’t wait until the critical hour - put it on the market in about 2 or 3 mos. Will you make money on your home if you sell it? I know you don’t want to leave your home but you may not have a choice.

 

I hope things get better for you soon!

Edited July 20, 2018 by bathtub-row

[bathtub-row]

Something else I thought of. If you believe in Feng Shui, find someone who’s a master - a person deeply educated on the subject. You’d be surprised to know that a home changes time periods every so often - I think every 7 yrs - and that changes your luck. A house that was once great can become a nightmare. Just read the book by Denise Liotta-Dennis about Fatal Hollywood Feng Shui. It’s an eye-opener. The author has several published books.

 

If I were going to spend my money on anything, that might be the better solution - finding out what kind of negativity is influencing your home. I used to live in a house that I jokingly called the bad luck house. That’s how I learned about Feng Shui. It wasn’t a joke - the house was bad news. But things can be fixed too. If you do that, pick someone who practices classical Feng Shui instead of the westernized version of it. There’s a HUGE difference between the two. The author of that book does consultations, I believe. It might be worth a shot.

[JuneL]

I don’t think it’s fair to say she’s married to a child. He agreed and was the breadwinner for a few solid years. People have bad times, but it’s not easy if your partner has even more stress and anxiety in times like this.

 

I was going to suggest the same: Perhaps set a deadline (say 3 more months) and sell the house, assuming you’re not making a loss. Then you can rent a modest place and save money. If keeping the house is giving you so much stress, what’s the point?

 

Maybe I’m an idiot but the last thing I’d be doing while out of work and watching my money disappear is paying money for counseling. I consider that a luxury, not a necessity. But that’s just me.

 

I hear your frustration. You’re basically married to a child. But the thing is, you need to stop making suggestions and trying to fix him. It may be hard but you need to let it go.

 

Have you considered government support for your condition? I don’t typically suggest that kind of thing but you have a legitimate health problem which makes it very hard to work.

 

You know, sometimes you just have to stop and breathe and quit letting the situation eat at you the way it is. I get it that this is a very high stress situation but you’re actually worsening it by letting it get to you this way. Look into getting financial help from the government and make a decision about what you’ll do if neither of you get jobs and if nothing improves. For instance, will you sell your house? If so, don’t wait until the critical hour - put it on the market in about 2 or 3 mos. Will you make money on your home if you sell it? I know you don’t want to leave your home but you may not have a choice.

 

I hope things get better for you soon!

[Mr. Lucky]

On top of being sick I've had nightmare clients this week. It's rare but it happens.

 

What is your work status? What jobs have you applied for?

 

Mr. Lucky

[JuneL]

Perhaps you can just trust your husband would do what is best in terms of his job search. Don’t try to act like his job counselor. It sounds like both of you can’t can’t handle stress well, and are making each other feeling worse.

 

I just wanted to add that perhaps what your husband needs is a little space. Please stop nagging him and making him feel even worse than how he already feels. Did he criticize you for your unsuccessful business? Did he nag you when you’re depressed and filled with anxiety constantly during the past few years?