What to think/ ?

[BluesPower]

I have been reading through this...

 

I really don't understand where you are coming from.

 

She is, and has been for how long???, having and emotional affair, that is a fact.

 

Now, if you want to be in a marriage with a women that does not love you or want to be with you, that is absolutely your business.

 

However, as a man that just got out of a bad marriage, I can tell you that the other side of the world is wonderful.

 

Maybe, sex, and being loved don't matter to you, but to a lot of people it does.

 

Yes, your affair has probably played a part in your wife feeling justified in what she is doing, but it is not reality.

 

Infidelity is wrong no matter what, just as, IMHO, staying in a marriage with someone that does not love you is a waste of my time...

[carhill]

OP, when was the last time your wife told you she loved you? Shared physical affection? Sex?

 

I've been around many MW's who compartmentalize, especially where no bodily fluids are being swapped and even sometimes when they are. They can still love their H's, show that love through actions and words and get some additional validation and attention from other men. Is that healthy? IMO, no. Is it acceptable? Not in my M. However, the OP isn't me and, think about it, how much validation/attention would his W be getting if she shut off the computer. Zippo, none.

 

OP, tangential question. When you and she are out as a couple or family, what's your sense of her interaction with males, even the most casual. Women are expert at sending out the 'I'm available, give me attention' vibe and men smell it and things happen, even with spouses around. It's palpable. How does it go with you? Is her activity only online or is she seeking attention IRL too?

[BaileyB]

 

Now, if you want to be in a marriage with a women that does not love you or want to be with you, that is absolutely your business.

 

This is key. By her actions, she is showing you that she doesn’t love you or want to be with you.

 

I couldn’t do it. I understand your hesitation, given all you have built in your marriage related to your children, finances, etc... but, I couldn’t stay with someone who doesn’t value honesty, trust, loyalty, and fidelity in the same way that I do.

[Jack Be Nimble]

This has only been online. Face to face, no issue. When out with family and friends, affectionate, holding hands and kissing (not making out but kissing). Sex - 3 times a week. Tells me she loves me daily.

 

She felt lonely, confused and displaced in life so the online attention was something that upped her spirits. No I love you's between her and the other...but sharing much information, health related, family and other via video and phone chatting, texting and emailing.

 

She's been talking with this individual for 9 months.

[Jack Be Nimble]

Furthermore, just because someone is lost, confused, having issues (and an EA), doesn't mean you simply throw in the towel. To me, that is the easy thing to do. Anyone can do just that. It takes much more discipline and courage to try to sort our what happened, what can be fixed and how to proceed. If that weren't the case, the 180 process wouldn't be discussed so much throughout the loveshack forum. Woop woop!

[carhill]

OP, would you characterize your (not the family's) schedule as busy, little time for idle chit-chat, etc? Are you tired after a days/weeks work and want to decompress and 'cave'?

 

Listening to you, I'm not seeing the classic signs. One other subconscious sign is a marked change in style or attention to appearance. Becoming more style/beauty conscious, spending more time and money on personal appearance than normal, etc. Changes in habits, including vices, if any. For example, starting or increasing drinking/smoking/drugs/gambling, etc.

 

IMO, menopause was likely one factor, not a determinant one but one of a number in the demise of our M. Hormonal change can be scary at times.

 

How recently has she had her estrogen/testosterone and thyroid checked and how did things look? Our brains are a big chemical factory and behaviors and thoughts are electro-chemical. Organic stuff matters.

[Jack Be Nimble]

While I am involved with a number of work related initiatives, I am not crazy busy nor do I get tired, need to decompress or cave. I will be the first to admit that I was not putting my wife first in the truest sense over the last 2 years. She felt neglected and that I did not support her. We only recently (4 months ago) began 'dating' again. When we chatted in the past, I sloughed off much of what she was saying - didn't take into consideration how she was really feeling. Felt I was doing all I could for the family.

 

She hasn't had the estrogen/testosterone and thyroid checked recently. Back when she was tested and the doctor prescribed estrogen, she did it once or twice and then stopped. Didn't want the weight gain.

 

In January she began taking an excellent vitamin supplement.

[BaileyB]

Married for almost 20 years... Wife has tossed out the 'not in love with me' both to myself and to a marriage counselor. My wife is involved in a long distance relationship that was one of many over the last couple years. Her current one makes her feel like a human being as she described it - not being labelled a wife, mother or anything else. Shares so much detail about life, our family and me in a negative light.

 

When out with family and friends, affectionate, holding hands and kissing (not making out but kissing). Sex - 3 times a week. Tells me she loves me daily.

 

These two statements - from your first post, and one of your most recent posts - don't really jive for me.

 

The first seems to say, she is unhappy with her life, turning away from her marriage, and no longer in love with you.

 

The second seems to say, she continues to act in a loving way toward you.

 

It's hard to know where the truth lays in this. If both are true, I can appreciate why you would be confused. I will say however, women who are happy with her life and happy in their marriages generally don't engage in emotional affairs with men who are not their husbands. And, the fact that she is unwilling to change her behavior when you tell her that you have concern with these relationships and/or seek counselling, is very telling about where her priorities lay.

 

It sounds like you are wanting to stay and continue to try and work things out. I hope for your family, all works out well. Best wishes.

[carhill]

OP, does your wife have one or a couple good close loving girlfriends? If no, is that a change from historical patterns? If yes, how does that go?

 

I'm asking because it is usual and healthy for women to connect, network, socialize with, vent, etc within their group of female friends. Yeah, sometimes it trends to the inappropriate and that can cause problems of its own depending on how those friends view you and, scary version, if they find you attractive. Regardless, it's generally healthier to share such intimacy with humans who are not of one's sexual preference.

 

I've got an odd MW story for you..... MW had a close girlfriend with whom she shared 'everything' and they were like a couple. Problem? Well the girlfriend happened to be a lesbian and she fell in love with the MW who happened to be hetero. Oops. I know both women and they're otherwise good people. Things just went off the rails, got sexual and the friendship blew up and hasn't recovered since. That's IMO why guaranteed platonic interactions are best for this 'venting' 'feeling like a human' stuff, even family only if friends aren't available. It's just too dicey. Guess who got lost in that 'friendship'? MW's husband, a really cool and understanding/loving guy. I hope he knows what went down. Personally I don't think he does.

 

IMO, continue to stay engaged in MC, make it a weekly priority, and task the MC to stabilize the intimacy as being focused by both you and her on each other. It'll take work for both of you. Sometimes marriage are a breeze. Sometimes they're work.

[Jack Be Nimble]

To answer Bailey, yes everything I've said is true/accurate. That is the confusing part.

 

She feels she's grown and a part of it includes this long distance friendship - someone that sees her for her and not as I said earlier, labelled as a wife, friend or mother. She also tired of everyone always complaining about day to day life. Albeit we've agreed the convo's should not include personal information about me or our family any further.

 

She does have several very good friends but that became strained through this process. They are aware of this fella and have told her its not good. Now, she has always had male friends but usually not regular convo's with as much personal information. So in a way, I could even say this caught her off guard.

 

Our marriage has been a breeze except for a small exception early on and now this.

[carhill]

Thanks for the responses and I hope you'll get further input. My instinct is still 'a phase' and not a death knell to your long M.

[BaileyB]

Well, there is another big red flag... strained friendships, friends that are distancing themselves for her because they think this is not going in a good direction and she will not listen to their concerned opinions...

 

May I offer... and I say this knowing that every situation is very different...

 

My best friend had a difficult year - she and her husband were busy with work and raising children, an unexpected death of a friend, midlife crisis, “I’ve only ever known what it is to be in a relationship, don’t know who I am anymore and fear that I’ve missed out on my youth, etc...”

 

She went on a trip for work and met another man. She came home saying “it was so nice for once not to be someone’s wife, or mother. I had no responsibility - no carpool! I could just be myself for the first time in a long time...”

 

Truth be told, I don’t know when this “emotional affair” became physical - I didn’t want to know because our friends began to distance ourselves from her - we were all hurting for her husband and nobody thought she was making food decisions.

 

Less than a year later, she had left her husband. Eighteen months later, they had filed for divorce and she was with this other man... who I had only really suspected was a “friendship” or emotional affair. Her husband never saw it coming. It sent her husband and children on a path that took them years to recover.

 

I don’t know that this will happen in your case, but I can see it coming... the signs are there. Women who are happy with their lives and in love with their husbands don’t do this kind of thing... her friends know it. Be careful.

Edited June 4, 2018 by BaileyB

[pepperbird]

Something is up, but I can't put my finer on what it is.

 

 

I wonder if she is really looking for an escape from what she views as the day to day ordinary life. It sounds like part of the attraction of talking to him is that she feels like she sees talking to him as her "me" time.

 

 

 

Have you tired explaining to her that you understand she needs this, but that her spending so much time talking to another man the way she does makes you uncomfortable and you would prefer it if she found this sort of escape in some other way?

 

 

Also, is there any way that you and she could get away together, even if just for a few days without dragging along your phones/computer? If you need to keep in touch with the kids and their caregiver while you are gone, use a landline. Give yourselves both a break from everyday life and be husband and wife and not just dad and mom.

[Jack Be Nimble]

Yes, as I noted in the earlier part of the post, she has referred to enjoying time talking to him because she doesn't feel like a wife, mother or even a vested friend. She certainly became bored being at home - gave up her career to raise the children. She's dabbled with going back to work.

 

I explained it - her response is usually, if it was a woman, I'd have no issue.

 

We've started to incorporate small things that establish us as a couple once again. We will likely take a 3 day trip next month.

[ICEMAN69]

Furthermore, just because someone is lost, confused, having issues (and an EA), doesn't mean you simply throw in the towel. To me, that is the easy thing to do. Anyone can do just that. It takes much more discipline and courage to try to sort our what happened, what can be fixed and how to proceed. If that weren't the case, the 180 process wouldn't be discussed so much throughout the loveshack forum. Woop woop!

 

 

I agree. If there's something valuable to work for, then do it. It's your marriage. ONLY you can decide when it's time to up and leave. People on the outside aren't involved in your day-to-day dynamics.

 

For me also, it's always easier to view things from the outside and make conclusions and suggestions, but it's much more difficult when it's you in the midst of the relationship with considerable history. I know when my first marriage ended because of her cheating, my emotions were all over the place. It was hard to even focus for 5 minutes.

 

It sounds like your wife is all over the place emotionally. But be wise to monitor her going forward. She appears to be susceptible to attention from other men and that's something to keep your guard up for.