Why can't people be liked for who they are

[ZA Dater]

Absolutely agree, however, as an example Chilli:

It's going to be your girlfriend whom you would initiate sex with, you are unlikely to initiate sex with your grandma, your sister, your boss or your plumber.

Plus your girlfriend would think it strange if you didn't initiate sex with her and treated her the same way as you do your grandma, your sister, your boss or your plumber.

 

So, your relationship brings out that facet of your personality, the sexual side.

Do you see where we're coming from here?

 

It doesn't mean you are not still true to yourself in all those interactions, not at all, it just means you adapt to different ways of dealing with different people in your life - which is being yourself.

Behaving with different people in your life differently is not at all being fake.

 

 

 

I guess that's another problem I just treat everyone the same.

[GemmaUK]

I guess that's another problem I just treat everyone the same.

 

 

ZA, it's not a problem.

It's a breakthrough and a way forward

You're already learning about social cues.

Now you can put into place in your mind how the differences between types of relationship can be.

By relationship, I mean the relationship with your grandma, your sister, your boss, your plumber and your date or potential girlfriend.

 

I think Basil got it though - where you see male friends as being 'fake' it's not that. They are just behaving in a different way to that which you are used to is all.

They don't behave like that with you because you're a male friend and not a potential date. Your male friends become animated. Animation is also one of those things that comes along with dating and also connecting with people (to appropriate degrees depending upon who it is).

 

Basil - good spot! Well said!

[ZA Dater]

You don't need to be a mind reader, just learn to understand social cues. Sure, I will start somewhere public on the first date, but depending on how she acts, I will be considering bringing her back to my place before the night is up. That is what most of this stuff is based on, being able to understand basic social cues. Women are usually telling you how they feel about you, they just don't come out and say it.

 

 

 

Your insistence that few people are interesting is misguided. Most people are interesting once you get to know them a little. Problem is, you take people on these awkward first dates and expect them to wow you with their wit and charm. Few can pull that off, sure. That doesn't mean they aren't interesting. Instead, I get women to relax around me and show them a good time. Eventually, they will open up a little and the more interesting tidbits come out.

 

 

 

I agree. In conjunction with this, steps should be taken to increase the odds of success.

 

 

 

Ok the best way to answer this is to state what does impress me and why so many people don't.

 

 

1: Ambition, this is blatantly obvious when you talk to someone and unfortunately most I meet have very limited ambition.

2: Vocabulary: This is important to me because you can get a very good idea about a person by the way they speak, usually because its a sign of education.

3: General knowledge: again for me a deal breaker every time. You want me to sit and talk about gyms and clubs, that's fine but I need something more to keep me interested which is where this comes in, except it never arrives.

 

 

I actually detest the "show them a good time" that's a two way street and for me a good time isn't going out to totally impress someone in the hope she might like me, hence really my indifference to the entire concept unless I actually like someone.

 

 

Apparently expensive dinners multiple times are a good start in the "show a good time" roster of things to do. Great I'll do that with the someone I actually want to spend time with but I am not going to do that anymore with these random dates where I can tell after 30 min the person isn't for me.

 

 

Odds of success, in my case I'd probably have to pretend I was someone else or pretend I like things I don't, neither of which I am prepared to do after flirting with both ideas in the past.

[GemmaUK]

Relationships aren't about impressing someone, (a date doing hard sell = turn off) they're about gelling and connecting with someone.

[ZA Dater]

ZA, it's not a problem.

It's a breakthrough and a way forward

You're already learning about social cues.

Now you can put into place in your mind how the differences between types of relationship can be.

By relationship, I mean the relationship with your grandma, your sister, your boss, your plumber and your date or potential girlfriend.

 

I think Basil got it though - where you see male friends as being 'fake' it's not that. They are just behaving in a different way to that which you are used to is all.

They don't behave like that with you because you're a male friend and not a potential date. Your male friends become animated. Animation is also one of those things that comes along with dating and also connecting with people (to appropriate degrees depending upon who it is).

 

Basil - good spot! Well said!

 

 

When you pretend to be someone you are not its blatant deception at best and plain fake at worst, in my opinion anyway. But hey, who I am to talk, apparently it works like a charm with aforementioned expensive dinners, on every date, 1-5 if you can find someone you actually like and if that person actually likes you enough to see you after one date.

 

 

See, the amount of things that are actually within ones own control are few, you can control your look, you cannot change your voice, you can change your facial expression or you can remain expressionless(a favourite of mine). Ultimately all dating is, is selling and its perhaps no surprise those who sell best do the best at it, those with the best looks do the best, those with the best confidence do best.

 

 

In short I don't do animated unless I have a very good reason to be and there haven't been many good reasons to be. For me animated is actually being a little less serious, a little more outgoing, a little less shy and a bit more confident. I cant just switch this one and off, either the person brings this out of me of they don't.

 

 

An example of this, sat at breakfast on my own this morning, there were three ladies all having breakfast probably 5 yards/metres from me and yes I suppose another guy would have gone over and said hello, I thought about it and dismissed the idea purely because I had nothing to gain because its doubtful any were single and the high possibility of looking like an idiot.

[ZA Dater]

Relationships aren't about impressing someone, (a date doing hard sell = turn off) they're about gelling and connecting with someone.

 

 

 

To you perhaps. I did a poll among the dating ladies I know (there are some) and almost all sited very impressionable first dates and being impressed by them. Its logical and I don't hate the fact it impresses them at all, I'd be equally impressed if someone I sat down with had good general knowledge and could debate with me.

 

 

Impressing is a huge part of attraction in my opinion, everything I have observed suggests this to be the case and unfortunately with impressing comes being someone you are not. Witness me sitting at a bar once as someone guy tried to buy drinks for 3 ladies, to have his card declined, they didn't hang around long.

 

 

People like to be made to feel special and for someone a thoughtful dinner is that, perhaps a carefully chosen wine, perhaps flowers and so on and so forth. I have been down this impressing road or at the very least tried to but as you say its one half impressing and the other half everything I don't have!

[ZA Dater]

So, the only way you can possibly have a good time is by having these deep, intellectual conversations with women who have ambition, education, and vocabulary? Nothing else interests you? You can't have fun watching a show, or walking down some nature trails, or going to a sporting event? All boring things?

 

It sounds to me like you basically have almost impossible standards to be met, especially for a first date. Hey, they're your standards. Not sure how anyone here is gonna be able to help you though.

 

 

 

Sure I can do those things but I am not going to do any of them as a first date, first date for me is to decide if I like the person or not. I did the hiking down nature trails before but neither time I connected with those people. That's the thing I simply don't connect with people all that often.

[basil67]

When you pretend to be someone you are not its blatant deception at best and plain fake at worst, in my opinion anyway. But hey, who I am to talk, apparently it works like a charm

 

Why are you still talking about being fake? I thought we'd been able to explain about how most people are multi faceted and simply use different parts of their personality as the situation calls for.

 

See, the amount of things that are actually within ones own control are few, you can control your look, you cannot change your voice, you can change your facial expression or you can remain expressionless(a favourite of mine). Ultimately all dating is, is selling and its perhaps no surprise those who sell best do the best at it, those with the best looks do the best, those with the best confidence do best.

 

Yes, I wish voice changing was easier. My accent clearly pegs me as blue collar Australian - but I'd love something more neutral. But yes, facial expression is important and can be changed. But why do you choose to remain expressionless? It's such an incredibly rude way to be in a discussion.

 

I think you're right about online dating being a huge exercise in marketing. Back when I was younger, it was far more about finding someone new at a party and getting to know them better.

 

In short I don't do animated unless I have a very good reason to be and there haven't been many good reasons to be. For me animated is actually being a little less serious, a little more outgoing, a little less shy and a bit more confident. I cant just switch this one and off, either the person brings this out of me of they don't.

 

A good reason to be animated is to be perceived as a nice person and to make others around you comfortable. It's not all about you or me. I was out last night with my hubby, his sisters and their friends. The music was too loud and not my taste. I didn't know anyone much and they were all a bit drunk anyway. But I faked animation so that I wouldn't make others uncomfortable and look like a miserable twat. Sometimes being animated is more about giving than what it gives us.

 

An example of this, sat at breakfast on my own this morning, there were three ladies all having breakfast probably 5 yards/metres from me and yes I suppose another guy would have gone over and said hello, I thought about it and dismissed the idea purely because I had nothing to gain because its doubtful any were single and the high possibility of looking like an idiot.

 

You made a good choice. Three women out on their own for breakfast are concentrating on each other - not on being picked up. I'd think a solo guy somewhat strange if he approached me and my girlfriends when we were out for a meal together.

[ZA Dater]

Why are you still talking about being fake? I thought we'd been able to explain about how most people are multi faceted and simply use different parts of their personality as the situation calls for.

 

 

 

Yes, I wish voice changing was easier. My accent clearly pegs me as blue collar Australian - but I'd love something more neutral. But yes, facial expression is important and can be changed. But why do you choose to remain expressionless? It's such an incredibly rude way to be in a discussion.

 

I think you're right about online dating being a huge exercise in marketing. Back when I was younger, it was far more about finding someone new at a party and getting to know them better.

 

 

 

A good reason to be animated is to be perceived as a nice person and to make others around you comfortable. It's not all about you or me. I was out last night with my hubby, his sisters and their friends. The music was too loud and not my taste. I didn't know anyone much and they were all a bit drunk anyway. But I faked animation so that I wouldn't make others uncomfortable and look like a miserable twat. Sometimes being animated is more about giving than what it gives us.

 

 

 

You made a good choice. Three women out on their own for breakfast are concentrating on each other - not on being picked up. I'd think a solo guy somewhat strange if he approached me and my girlfriends when we were out for a meal together.

 

 

 

I get multi faced, what I don't get is being deceptive and actually over embellishment. But yes I concede I don't get the need to actually be a different person based on the company, I am the same person, irrespective of the company. Which I suppose goes a long way to understand why dating doesn't work for me!

 

 

I have always been largely expressionless which is probably why I was once described as cold, which isn't my intention but again if your experiences are poor I simply don't give the person in front of me much to work with unless I actually like them.

 

 

You say make others around comfortable, again difficult in a crowd situation where this isn't reciprocated and you are made to feel uncomfortable from the off. Mostly I just keep to myself unless I have something specific to add but mostly its the same old "I me this girl and she is hot, so and so hooked up with that girl, we went to this place and that place" and so on and so forth. I did once manage some success at talking with someone else that wasn't in the conversation, nice lady but even though I really tried someone else in the group held more allure.

 

 

Why did he have more allure because of the aforementioned fake charm and in no part because, well he was more fun I guess.

[Mentor99]

OP, my understanding is that you've never been on a second date with someone - is that correct?

 

Rarely does a first date include deep conversations, so if that's what you're waiting for, I suspect you'll be waiting a long time. Also, part of me wonders if your high standards aren't a "let me reject them before they reject me" defense mechanism. I'm sure at least part of you is terrified of what a woman's reaction to you will be if they find out you're a 34 year old virgin, and avoiding that situation might seem like a better idea than having to face it.

 

And I also wonder if it's your location or social circle. There's no shortage of intelligent, ambitious people where I live, but I live in a major city with multiple universities and colleges. You pretty much have to be ambitious where I live because it's so expensive to live here.

[JuneL]

Ok the best way to answer this is to state what does impress me and why so many people don't.

 

 

1: Ambition, this is blatantly obvious when you talk to someone and unfortunately most I meet have very limited ambition.

2: Vocabulary: This is important to me because you can get a very good idea about a person by the way they speak, usually because its a sign of education.

3: General knowledge: again for me a deal breaker every time. You want me to sit and talk about gyms and clubs, that's fine but I need something more to keep me interested which is where this comes in, except it never arrives.

 

 

I think many posters have trouble understanding why you can’t like these girls for who they are. Hypocrisy much?

 

You also don’t come across as a particularly ambitious guy.

 

Finally, someone with good general knowledge is usually open-minded, and can turn pretty much any topic into an intellectual discussion.

[ZA Dater]

OP, my understanding is that you've never been on a second date with someone - is that correct?

 

Rarely does a first date include deep conversations, so if that's what you're waiting for, I suspect you'll be waiting a long time. Also, part of me wonders if your high standards aren't a "let me reject them before they reject me" defense mechanism. I'm sure at least part of you is terrified of what a woman's reaction to you will be if they find out you're a 34 year old virgin, and avoiding that situation might seem like a better idea than having to face it.

 

And I also wonder if it's your location or social circle. There's no shortage of intelligent, ambitious people where I live, but I live in a major city with multiple universities and colleges. You pretty much have to be ambitious where I live because it's so expensive to live here.

 

 

 

There is some truth in all of this but the truth also is I am hardly impressed enough to want to see many of them again. The most impressive people I tend to meet aren't in the dating environment at all, they are people who aren't single to begin with.

 

 

You are right on the second point, no escaping that point at all. The truth is if I am going to go there I have to really like the person and there are few I really like. Really like in that I actually feel some sort of connection with them. It takes me time to become comfortable around people.

 

 

For all purposes I don't really have a social circle, at least not people in the same place in life as me.

 

 

The conversations don't need to be deep but is it so hard for them to ask me a question, the people I get on with there is a conversation whereas most others there is no real conversation at all. I like to be challenged, its a quality I find very attractive and it brings out the best in me.

 

 

For all of you that wonder the same thing, the greatest comfort I have is that there is at least person who does get me, I can be me, I can say what I think without wondering about it first and it just works, there is friendly interest and we share things.

 

 

I just wish I wasn't so disadvantaged by not tailoring my personality.

[Mentor99]

There is some truth in all of this but the truth also is I am hardly impressed enough to want to see many of them again. The most impressive people I tend to meet aren't in the dating environment at all, they are people who aren't single to begin with.

 

I get the feeling sometimes that you're extrapolating from a very small sample size. It's pretty clear you have a crush on one person, and she's not available, and you're comparing people you go on dates with to her. Or at least to your connection with her.

 

 

The truth is if I am going to go there I have to really like the person and there are few I really like. Really like in that I actually feel some sort of connection with them. It takes me time to become comfortable around people.

 

So if you feel connected to people after some time, clearly you're never going to feel connected after a first date. And wanting to feel the same connection with someone you've just met that you feel with someone you've known for years, isn't realistic.

 

For all purposes I don't really have a social circle, at least not people in the same place in life as me.

 

Well you talk about the guys that are fake - I'm assuming these are guys that you know well enough to know they're fake. That's what I'm referring to as your social circle.

 

The conversations don't need to be deep but is it so hard for them to ask me a question, the people I get on with there is a conversation whereas most others there is no real conversation at all. I like to be challenged, its a quality I find very attractive and it brings out the best in me.

 

Again I think you're comparing people you're meeting for the first time, like on a first date, with people you've known for a long time and you already feel comfortable with.

 

So you only feel connected after knowing someone for awhile and getting comfortable with them.

 

You don't feel connected to any of the people you've had a first date with (because you haven't spent a lot of time with them).

 

You feel disappointment and frustrated because you're not connecting with them, so you decide you don't want to see them again.

 

Sounds like you're shooting yourself in the foot here...

 

For all of you that wonder the same thing, the greatest comfort I have is that there is at least person who does get me, I can be me, I can say what I think without wondering about it first and it just works, there is friendly interest and we share things.

 

And I believe this is the crush I was talking about previously. Part of me thinks the fantasy possibility of a relationship with her keeps you from dating in any meaningful way. Keeps you spinning your wheels.

 

I just wish I wasn't so disadvantaged by not tailoring my personality.

 

I don't think you necessarily need to change your personality. But you have to quit waiting for people to impress you or ask you questions. Everybody has something interesting about them. Often you can't see it right away as it takes a bit for people to let their walls down.

[basil67]

Finally, someone with good general knowledge is usually open-minded, and can turn pretty much any topic into an intellectual discussion.

 

Unfortunately the other party needs to be interested in participating in the intellectual part. I know a couple of people who can't get past the trivial in their conversations. If I mention anything slightly deeper, I get a response of "Oh, I hate talking about that stuff"

[MidwestUSA]

Unfortunately the other party needs to be interested in participating in the intellectual part. I know a couple of people who can't get past the trivial in their conversations. If I mention anything slightly deeper, I get a response of "Oh, I hate talking about that stuff"

 

Much in the same way OP can't be bothered with discussing trivial things.

 

It's a balancing act.

[JuneL]

Unfortunately the other party needs to be interested in participating in the intellectual part. I know a couple of people who can't get past the trivial in their conversations. If I mention anything slightly deeper, I get a response of "Oh, I hate talking about that stuff"

 

I dunno. From OP’s posts, I got the impression he was the one who was saying (in his mind anyway) “Oh, I hate talking about that stuff”

[ZA Dater]

I get the feeling sometimes that you're extrapolating from a very small sample size. It's pretty clear you have a crush on one person, and she's not available, and you're comparing people you go on dates with to her. Or at least to your connection with her.

 

 

 

 

So if you feel connected to people after some time, clearly you're never going to feel connected after a first date. And wanting to feel the same connection with someone you've just met that you feel with someone you've known for years, isn't realistic.

 

 

 

Well you talk about the guys that are fake - I'm assuming these are guys that you know well enough to know they're fake. That's what I'm referring to as your social circle.

 

 

 

Again I think you're comparing people you're meeting for the first time, like on a first date, with people you've known for a long time and you already feel comfortable with.

 

So you only feel connected after knowing someone for awhile and getting comfortable with them.

 

You don't feel connected to any of the people you've had a first date with (because you haven't spent a lot of time with them).

 

You feel disappointment and frustrated because you're not connecting with them, so you decide you don't want to see them again.

 

Sounds like you're shooting yourself in the foot here...

 

 

 

And I believe this is the crush I was talking about previously. Part of me thinks the fantasy possibility of a relationship with her keeps you from dating in any meaningful way. Keeps you spinning your wheels.

 

 

 

I don't think you necessarily need to change your personality. But you have to quit waiting for people to impress you or ask you questions. Everybody has something interesting about them. Often you can't see it right away as it takes a bit for people to let their walls down.

 

 

 

There are a few things which I disagree with here. There have been a few people, perhaps 3 whom I have got along with really well from the off and I felt a connection of sorts with them. That's what I am looking for. I am going to compare others to these people yes because these were the people I really liked.

 

 

Honestly 15 minutes is enough for me to decide if I like the person or feel connected to them in anyway. They don't want to see me again anyway which is quite a relief in most instances, I cant really recall many instances where I actually did want to see the person again, granted these were random dates and there was absolutely no common ground at all.

 

 

I disagree if I am expected to do all the marketing I expect them to do some too. Is it really so much to expect for someone to try and actually extoll their virtues, instead on go on these dates and the whole thing is very ordinary, the people that I liked and did impress me all had attributes I found impressive, unfortunately for me those attributes seem pretty rare. I wish I could tell you exactly what they were but when I meet people they either have them or they don't.

 

 

Perhaps the difference here is the people who sit around and be fake to pick up ladies have the idea of getting laid, hence the whole fakery. That isn't really my idea, I'd actually like the friend aspect first, thinking about it I wont actually do anything unless I have that first.

[GemmaUK]

When you pretend to be someone you are not its blatant deception at best and plain fake at worst, in my opinion anyway. But hey, who I am to talk, apparently it works like a charm with aforementioned expensive dinners, on every date, 1-5 if you can find someone you actually like and if that person actually likes you enough to see you after one date.

I must have imagined my dating and relationship history - no man has ever taken me out for dinner unless you count my Dad as a date.

I go on second dates with guys who make an effort to make me feel comfortable around them - as I do them.

 

See, the amount of things that are actually within ones own control are few, you can control your look, you cannot change your voice, you can change your facial expression or you can remain expressionless(a favourite of mine). Ultimately all dating is, is selling and its perhaps no surprise those who sell best do the best at it, those with the best looks do the best, those with the best confidence do best.

 

In short I don't do animated unless I have a very good reason to be and there haven't been many good reasons to be. For me animated is actually being a little less serious, a little more outgoing, a little less shy and a bit more confident. I cant just switch this one and off, either the person brings this out of me of they don't.

Actually, you can change your voice. All kinds of aspects of a person's voice can be changed. I've adapted my own and I know of many women who have done the same (the vast majority actually!).

Expressionless isn't going to make anyone feel comfortable around you so their willingness to speak and open up to you in the ways you demand out of a first date is never going to happen.

You can bring things out of yourself but you appear to want to take no responsibility to do that and it seems the responsibility is all on the woman.

Can you tell me where your responsibility within the realms of dating or a relationship come in please?

[Mentor99]

There have been a few people, perhaps 3 whom I have got along with really well from the off and I felt a connection of sorts with them. That's what I am looking for.

 

OK, but that's the opposite of what you said here:

 

I am going to go there I have to really like the person and there are few I really like. Really like in that I actually feel some sort of connection with them. It takes me time to become comfortable around people.

 

I am going to compare others to these people yes because these were the people I really liked.

 

Best just not to compare people to anybody. Everybody is an individual. I'm definitely not saying you should like or date somebody you don't like, but it does actually take many people time to actually get to know them. The longer you can remain neutral the better instead of either writing them off right away or (equally bad) falling for them right away.

 

Honestly 15 minutes is enough for me to decide if I like the person or feel connected to them in anyway. They don't want to see me again anyway which is quite a relief in most instances, I cant really recall many instances where I actually did want to see the person again, granted these were random dates and there was absolutely no common ground at all.

 

No doubt this can be the case. I remember from my dating days knowing within minutes with one woman that we weren't a match. And I suspect she knew that quickly too. I literally said, about 10 mins in, "well this clearly isn't going to turn into anything." She laughed and said "I'm glad you said something!" and we ended up having a great time anyways chatting. She ended up inviting me to a party she was going to (which I declined as I'm not at all a party guy).

 

But the lesson here is I still had a good time even though we clearly weren't a match. Like I said, everybody is interesting in their own way.

 

I disagree if I am expected to do all the marketing I expect them to do some too. Is it really so much to expect for someone to try and actually extoll their virtues, instead on go on these dates and the whole thing is very ordinary, the people that I liked and did impress me all had attributes I found impressive, unfortunately for me those attributes seem pretty rare.

 

Well yes I think your expectations are too high for a FIRST date! Nothing can guarantee disappointment more than unrealistic expectations.

 

I wish I could tell you exactly what they were but when I meet people they either have them or they don't.

 

Well I suspect it's a combination of things, but intellect seems to be high on your list, and I imagine you need to find them physically attractive too. It might seem intangible, but usually isn't.

 

 

Perhaps the difference here is the people who sit around and be fake to pick up ladies have the idea of getting laid, hence the whole fakery. That isn't really my idea, I'd actually like the friend aspect first, thinking about it I wont actually do anything unless I have that first.

 

Friend first is fine. In fact most emotionally healthy relationships are built on a foundation of friendship.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Mentor99

[ZA Dater]

OK, but that's the opposite of what you said here:

 

 

 

 

 

Best just not to compare people to anybody. Everybody is an individual. I'm definitely not saying you should like or date somebody you don't like, but it does actually take many people time to actually get to know them. The longer you can remain neutral the better instead of either writing them off right away or (equally bad) falling for them right away.

 

 

 

No doubt this can be the case. I remember from my dating days knowing within minutes with one woman that we weren't a match. And I suspect she knew that quickly too. I literally said, about 10 mins in, "well this clearly isn't going to turn into anything." She laughed and said "I'm glad you said something!" and we ended up having a great time anyways chatting. She ended up inviting me to a party she was going to (which I declined as I'm not at all a party guy).

 

But the lesson here is I still had a good time even though we clearly weren't a match. Like I said, everybody is interesting in their own way.

 

 

 

Well yes I think your expectations are too high for a FIRST date! Nothing can guarantee disappointment more than unrealistic expectations.

 

 

 

Well I suspect it's a combination of things, but intellect seems to be high on your list, and I imagine you need to find them physically attractive too. It might seem intangible, but usually isn't.

 

 

 

 

Friend first is fine. In fact most emotionally healthy relationships are built on a foundation of friendship.

 

 

 

I don't do so well on the friend front as you may have gathered, well at least with ladies and I suppose guys too. It all probably started when people started going to clubs, I wasn't interested, the drank I wasn't interested in that either. When you remove yourself like that all you do is isolate yourself.

 

 

As for getting to know, as I say few interested me, often the promise on text simple didn't work I person but again I just went and met anyone who wanted to meet me irrespective if I thought I might like them. Look some of the dates were ok, but nothing really memorable, for that I have to delve into another experiment I did where I met someone who wasn't on a dating site, wasn't single but we met up a few times anyway, me because I had the knowledge that she needed and her because I liked spending time with her, the fact that everybody looked at her was quite something too, spending time with her was an experience because she had a completely different point of view. We could make mundane things interesting and it was just nice.

 

 

What I usually end up meeting off sites are people with bucket loads of baggage and it tells, rarely do I not get asked about ex's or told about her ex. On top of this I get the same generic things conversationally, there is no real opinion offered on anything.

 

 

I don't go with any expectations because I know what to expect, rarely am I surprised, irrespective of the activity I choose there is no real connection to be had. Most are simply wholly incompatible with me.

 

 

Its here I get on my mountain again because I am smart enough to tell wen people speak with conviction and when they don't , more often than not these people do things because, well everyone else does, everyone goes clubbing so I do, everyone else does this so I do it. That sort of mentality is a complete deal breaker. This lack of conviction is very apparent.

 

 

For me the ideal is average looks, pretty face and way above intellect. Mostly the people I find attractive my friends describe as ugly as they chase the absolute best looking where competition is such you might as pack up and go home before you even start.

[ZA Dater]

I must have imagined my dating and relationship history - no man has ever taken me out for dinner unless you count my Dad as a date.

I go on second dates with guys who make an effort to make me feel comfortable around them - as I do them.

 

 

Actually, you can change your voice. All kinds of aspects of a person's voice can be changed. I've adapted my own and I know of many women who have done the same (the vast majority actually!).

Expressionless isn't going to make anyone feel comfortable around you so their willingness to speak and open up to you in the ways you demand out of a first date is never going to happen.

You can bring things out of yourself but you appear to want to take no responsibility to do that and it seems the responsibility is all on the woman.

Can you tell me where your responsibility within the realms of dating or a relationship come in please?

 

 

 

Clearly its all my fault because none of the issues I mention are apparently universal issues. Believe not a day passes with a fair amount of regret, in fact there are quite a few I walk around with.

 

 

Why must I bother bringing anything out when I can see the match up doesn't work from the outset? That's like bringing out the silverware for a McDonalds burger. If there was any reciprocal effort it might be worth it but when I think back there rarely were instances where this happened.

 

 

The dates I always enjoyed the most were the ones where there was some inherent challenge, even the completely wasted one last year presented a challenge of sorts and she was perhaps closest to what I like of the single people I have met, pity she was completely incompatible.

 

 

Nothing I do will change the way this whole thing works, arguably my best chances are pretty much gone and my marketability is very low for what I actually want when measured against what I am.

 

 

All is not lost though because at least there is one person who cares to some degree, which is better than nobody at all.

[Mentor99]

I don't do so well on the friend front as you may have gathered, well at least with ladies and I suppose guys too. It all probably started when people started going to clubs, I wasn't interested, the drank I wasn't interested in that either. When you remove yourself like that all you do is isolate yourself.

 

This is what I was talking about when I mentioned your social circle. If you're not interested in clubs, but the people you hang out around are all going to clubs and drinking, clearly it's not your group of people.

 

If you live in a city with even a relatively large population there will be plenty of people that have no interest in clubs or drinking - they might be the minority, but they exist. You'd do well to put in some effort and find them.

 

This is likely also the issue you're running into using Tinder. Tinder has absolutely no filters, so on one hand it can seem like there are thousands of options out there, on the other hand you literally have no idea what they'll be like and the vast majority of time you won't be compatible.

 

Can I suggest trying a site like OK Cupid? Go on there and answer at least 100 of their questions as honestly as you can. Don't try to answer in a way that you think will appeal to the most women, just answer in a way that speaks to your core values. Be honest.

 

After that search by match percentage. My estimation is that somebody has to be at least a 95% match to have good relationship potential (and preferably they've answered a lot of the questions as well). You'll see that there aren't very many that fall in that 95% range. And the number of women that you're attracted to in that range will be even fewer. And then the number of women in that range, that you're attracted to, that are also attracted to you will be still fewer!

 

But it will give you a realistic perspective on how rare a good match is to find. And so don't get so discouraged when you don't find one. You just have to keep going until you do.

[Fair]

I don't believe anyone is liked for 'who they are' but rather in terms of what value they bring to the lives of others. If you're suffering in life you'll find this out very quickly because the minute people know you have nothing to 'give' at that moment, but 'NEED' instead, people will scatter like rats including those you thought were your best friends.

 

Now... here's another thought.

 

Most people are the same, or to be less delicate... they're sheep. It's the outliers who find themselves at the greatest disadvantage in life, and those people tend to be the most genuine and honest, valuable people out there, but they're misunderstood and misaligned because they frighten people.. they're a threat to the sheep mentality...

 

people are much more like animals than they'd ever admit behaviourally.... and so there are those who fit into the pack which comprises the majority of the population and those who don't. Creative, highly intelligent people capable of independent thought are often revered after ... long after they're gone, usually for great contributions to society be it through art, literature or what have you... but they're very hard for others to understand or to like while they're among us, unfortunately.

 

You've all heard the saying that the more intelligent you are or the more you stand out from the crowd the less friends or mates you are likely to have in this life and it's definitely true. The superior human of thought and action will forever be rejected, generally speaking. Whomever doesn't fit into society would do well to take that into consideration before buying into the herd mentality that they're fundamentally faulty in some way and learn to embrace their differences and to be proud.

 

However, yes, loneliness and not necessarily being liked for who they are will definitely be the price tag that comes with it. And it will be painful. But it's just something that has to be accepted. And if nothing else then, we all need to learn to find out who we are (most don't know) and then learn to like and accept ourselves for exactly who we are despite anyone else's opinion. Getting to know and understand yourself is one of the greatest pathways to peace and happiness.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Fair

[basil67]

I don't believe anyone is liked for 'who they are' but rather in terms of what value they bring to the lives of others. If you're suffering in life you'll find this out very quickly because the minute people know you have nothing to 'give' at that moment, but 'NEED' instead, people will scatter like rats including those you thought were your best friends.

 

Your approach here is too binary. Good friendships involve both give and take. You can be happy together or miserable together. Or one can need and the other can give...and then it turns around. The problems surface when one friend frequently needs more than they give. Good friends will give and give....but without some return, they end up out of the energy required to keep giving. If a person's needs are so high that their friends find themselves running empty, they should be getting that support from a professional.

 

I have a friend who I've supported through a number of episodes of crisis. I've started to realise that in her life she does lurch from one crisis to the next. It got to the stage where I was so emotionally exhausted from supporting her that I had to start creating space between us. I didn't want to do it, but I needed to care for my own mental health too.

 

Most people are the same, or to be less delicate... they're sheep. <snip>

 

You've all heard the saying that the more intelligent you are or the more you stand out from the crowd the less friends or mates you are likely to have in this life and it's definitely true. The superior human of thought and action will forever be rejected, generally speaking. Whomever doesn't fit into society would do well to take that into consideration before buying into the herd mentality that they're fundamentally faulty in some way and learn to embrace their differences and to be proud.

 

I've never heard the saying that the more intelligent one is or standing out makes you have less friends. I have some highly intelligent and creative friends and I find people flocking towards them. Thing is, they also have great social intelligence. It's those who struggle with social intelligence who are lonely.

 

However, yes, loneliness and not necessarily being liked for who they are will definitely be the price tag that comes with it. And it will be painful. But it's just something that has to be accepted. And if nothing else then, we all need to learn to find out who we are (most don't know) and then learn to like and accept ourselves for exactly who we are despite anyone else's opinion. Getting to know and understand yourself is one of the greatest pathways to peace and happiness.

 

Being ostracised for having poor social awareness can be so very painful. However social awareness can be learned to a degree. Yes, sometimes it needs to be faked (like me having to be really aware of keeping good eye contact at a recent job interview) but it's a fact of life that humans do place value on people being able to fit in.

Edited June 12, 2018 by basil67

[gaius]

As I've grown older it's pretty clear to me that our social behavior as humans is often primarily designed to elicit the response we want from others. So while you think you're just "being yourself" ZA your body is actually putting out a very calculated set of behavior patterns based on trying to elicit some kind of response.

 

If you're not getting what you think you want from others then you might be mistaken about what it is you actually want.