Why can't people be liked for who they are

[ZA Dater]

OK that's fine, and how do you plan on doing this?

 

There have been a few guys on here who have made huge strides in their dating and social lives. But to do this, they *really* put themselves out there. And they had quite more of an open mind (that is key here--an OPEN MIND). For example, these guys may still be going on these Tinder meetups with women they aren't sure about, as you have been doing. BUT even if these guys concluded that they weren't interested, they still made a point of:

 

(a) Enjoying themselves with the woman--and making sure she had a good time. They found something really interesting/cool about the person in front of them.

 

(b) Learning what they could do the next time to connect with someone (even if it were only for that night), instead of concluding that 'no woman likes me' or 'girls are shallow/have no depth' ect. Maybe these guys would post in more detail about their dates to get more useful feedback.

 

In particular, they would STAY AWAY from 'shyness-induced snobbery'. They would also explore different avenues of meeting women. And maybe seek out a wingman/close female friend who could give them some pointers. And they also would explore getting physical with a woman/making a move, ect. They would learn how to read signs and signals.

 

ZA, I say this as constructively as possible, but I really have not seen you do the above. I mean, you DO go on dates but from your posts it sounds that you close yourself off fast. OR perhaps instead, you get into the same conversational patter that clearly is not working. And on that note, for all you write here, you actually don't really post nearly enough *specific* details about your dates for us to be able to give *useful* feedback. It is a shame as we all would like to see you get unstuck.

 

 

1:Its very tough to enjoy yourself with someone who you cannot have a conversation with or who doesn't relate to you or you to them. I have been on dates that no matter what the topic its next to impossible to get the person to talk, at this point yes I loose interest.

 

 

2: If this implies one night stands, I am not interested in those. As for learning, well which is it, one person says two people are the same and here you imply there are generic things which work with everyone?

 

 

3: I have done the wingman thing before, it doesn't work for me because he is always going to be more domineering socially than me, they will always gravitate towards him and no me. Or to try and make me feel better he suggests I chase after people he deems perfect but would never chase after himself. I have the female friend but she isn't a lot of help to be honest, I have taken those pointers and have made some of the improvements.

 

 

You are right I do close myself off quickly when I loose interest which is mainly because often I don't find the person attractive or they simply don't fit with me.

 

 

All I am doing really is to try and present a less serious side and a less shy side, I don't expect to actually find someone but at least I can do it for me.

[ZA Dater]

You misunderstood again.

It was me who said the Accountant v Architect words but you have interpreted it the total wrong way.

 

What I said was:

'It's like me, an Accountant, trying to be an Architect - it's not going to work'

I didn't say 'try to be an architect' at all!!!

 

My goodness you are hard to communicate with!

 

 

 

I know exactly what you mean, you simply mean match like with like and I have never subscribed to this in an sphere of life at all. If anything people should be encouraged not to settle for like but to rather settle for the absolute best they can achieve.

[GemmaUK]

What is it you hope to gain from posters here when you start a thread ZA?

[ZA Dater]

What is it you hope to gain from posters here when you start a thread ZA?

 

 

 

Perspective and advice which I do actually take on board and try some of the suggestions. Meetup I accept this will work better in the US/UK than it does here, OLD works better there too.

 

 

I used the same profiles I always had and got far better calibre of matches than I do here. Its actually possible to have a conversation which is nice.

 

 

My issue is continually trying to work with what I have in terms of matches. Do I try really hard to meet people out of OLD, not really because guess what everyone I do run into is taken....

 

 

I go to coffee shops, book stores and the like and especially in the former its groups of people sitting together, its not possible to get anywhere there.

 

 

Undoubtedly there is obviously lots people don't like about me, I accept that but then I look at the sort of people that do attract people and truthfully I wouldn't want to be on of them either. Perhaps I am too rigid, perhaps I just know too many things, perhaps I think too much.

 

 

I try to think anther way, some of the replies here do challenge my thinking, I mean do I try the ONS, if so how do I divorce the fact I need to find the person wholly attractive?

 

 

More questions than answers.

[Chilli]

l've always needed wholly attraction so what's wrong with that, but perfects another matter.

Individual doesn't matter either l'm very individual that's a bonus in fact but l'd go for very different and individual too like me, so it works. It's like gemma said no use and accountant trying to be an architect.

Thing is, all the people and questions, suggestions on the internet can't put the right woman in front of you or anyone else, people have to find that themselves.

That's all it really comes down to, the right person for whomever we are.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Chilli

[JuneL]

I know but it is so difficult to get the message across so I've done it myself and have seen others also move on to the next thing as ZA often misunderstands, misses questions an goes on tangents.

To describe what you 'mean' takes a lot of effort to be clear enough for ZA and many here have spent a lot of time already in genuine help, advice and posts. It's hard work when you need to re-explain things.

As you say, inconsistencies, of which there are heaps are exhausting to track.

 

Not just inconsistencies, distortions and avoidance, but some of his replies are convoluted and lack meaning. I seriously doubt if he enjoys intellectual conversations as much as he has wanted us to believe. I still have the same serious doubt about his financial situation that he has wanted is to believe.

[basil67]

I must have missed a few posts...but who on earth advised you to meet women at coffee shops and book stores? Even for introvert me, it's got to be the lamest advice in the world. A person in a bookstore is there to find books, not to converse. And yes, in a cafe, it's groups of people wanting to engage only with each other. They aren't there to meet dates. If you're to meet people outside of OLD you need to be in situations where people are there to socialise. Events, birthday parties, random drinks with friends. Yes, I know you don't drink. And yes, I know this makes things impossible for you. Your choice.

 

I know a number of people who know many things - but they also present in an engaging manner which invites much conversation. Yes, I know that you're running into them on OLD but most of them are probably on OLD because their social skills let them down in real life.

 

The number one thing one needs to do in order to be attractive is to let their hair down and relax into the vibe.

[Imajerk17]

I am not ignoring the rest of your post ZA but at this point it may be best to focus on one thing. Otherwise this is just going to keep going around and round in circles and we won't ever get anywhere.

 

1:Its very tough to enjoy yourself with someone who you cannot have a conversation with or who doesn't relate to you or you to them. I have been on dates that no matter what the topic its next to impossible to get the person to talk, at this point yes I loose interest.

 

It would be very useful if you go into more detail the beginning of the last date you went on, in particular from the moment when you first saw each other in person, to when you were pretty sure she had gone cold.

 

Included details should be:

--where you and she decided to meet up

--how you greeted her when you saw her the first time in person

--what you talked about/what questions you asked her, and how she responded

--what she asked you and how you responded

--anything else said by either party--you or her--that sticks out.

 

What would be most useful would be details about the *first 15 minutes* of the date, where it was that you seemed to have lost her, so we can advise how to change this going forward.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Imajerk17

[ZA Dater]

I am not ignoring the rest of your post ZA but at this point it may be best to focus on one thing. Otherwise this is just going to keep going around and round in circles and we won't ever get anywhere.

 

 

 

It would be very useful if you go into more detail the beginning of the last date you went on, in particular from the moment when you first saw each other in person, to when you were pretty sure she had gone cold.

 

Included details should be:

--where you and she decided to meet up

--how you greeted her when you saw her the first time in person

--what you talked about/what questions you asked her, and how she responded

--what she asked you and how you responded

--anything else said by either party--you or her--that sticks out.

 

What would be most useful would be details about the *first 15 minutes* of the date, where it was that you seemed to have lost her.

 

 

1: Coffee shop

2: With a hug and a smile

3: Ok I tried to take an interest in her, find out what she found interesting, how her day had been, bring up general topics like the weather and generally try and keep the conversation light, nothing heavy at all. Her responses were ok but there was nothing directed at me as such, no questions about me, the topics continued to be general and non specific, i.e. I wasn't actually finding anything out about her she was just talking about whatever general topic. I asked her about her work, if she had any pets, if there was any specific place she liked, any specific food. Generally I respond either seriously or comically to try and infuse some humour into the date.

4: refer above

 

 

I didn't so much as loose her as not really have a lot of interest in her to begin with, MOSTLY because the conversation was so one sided as they all seem to be. When this happens I loose all interest, especially if the conversation is small talk exclusively.

 

 

Sometimes as I did here I will try resort to selling myself to an extent but I don't particularly enjoy doing that.

 

 

Likewise the hiking date I went on, its so tough to explain but I either get the person or I don't, I just never feel like many of these dating are being particularly nice to me, as odd as that sounds. I think the problem is as some have said I am not looking at these dates as romantic from the outset, I need to meet the person and then decide how much I am going to risk/put into the date.

 

 

Despite the thoughts here I do actually try get people to laugh, I do try not to be serious but often what sits in front of me isn't really what I want to begin with so perhaps subconsciously disinterest and disappointment does show.

[GemmaUK]

I am not ignoring the rest of your post ZA but at this point it may be best to focus on one thing. Otherwise this is just going to keep going around and round in circles and we won't ever get anywhere.

 

 

 

It would be very useful if you go into more detail the beginning of the last date you went on, in particular from the moment when you first saw each other in person, to when you were pretty sure she had gone cold.

 

Included details should be:

--where you and she decided to meet up

--how you greeted her when you saw her the first time in person

--what you talked about/what questions you asked her, and how she responded

--what she asked you and how you responded

--anything else said by either party--you or her--that sticks out.

 

What would be most useful would be details about the *first 15 minutes* of the date, where it was that you seemed to have lost her, so we can advise how to change this going forward.

 

What IMAJ meant (forgive me here IMAJ - but I'm drilling down here). was we need to see actual 'detail'

 

EG: Myself and Mr X chatted online for about 5 days and realised we have a fair bit in common, he, like me, loves outdoor music festivals, cars and car shows, one off Italian restaurants, one off Mexican restaurants (and in fact we love the same one! It was nearer to me but moved to a new location nearer to him) We also both like hiking - nothing too harsh, no rock climbing but a good walk/hike with great views is something we both enjoy.

He's quite nice looking, has been married and has kids now mid-late teens.

He and his ex wife (whom he was married to for 20 years) have a good relationship and share care and responsibility for their offspring.

His ex is re-married and by Mr X's account and that of the kids a good guy.

 

We decide to meet for a mid afternoon drink on a Sunday, we're both really busy work wise, me, in accounts he in IT. We both have projects going on so know this meet up will be pretty short and sweet and due to schedules and if we wish to meet again it will definitely not be until the following weekend.

 

We meet in a bar, recognise each other, smile, quick kiss on one cheek - oh he kisses on two - slightly awkward for me but funny! Lol!

He was there waiting for me with a drink on a table on his own. When he stood up he was taller than me and his 5ft 6in was no lie.

His eyes sparked when he saw me and he got a little flustered looking and that was nice to see but he smiled a lot when seeing me.

He was quick to ask what i wanted to drink and moved his hands to suggest I sit down and he would look after it.

I sat and saw he had barely touched his pint so I asked for a pint of cider.

He went off to get the drinks telling me 'this is your time to run ya know...but I will ask if there is a window in the ladies toilet that you can jump out of if you need to later. I've already checked the Men's and I'm covered - back up plan intact! Three people on speed dial too if you are an axe murderer! Lol!

 

So, he goes to the bar whilst I still, cool off from my walk, he's funny, his eyes lit up seeing me and his eyebrows raised - good sign.

He has a good bum - which I can see, good pair of Levis and he's as described, lean.

He's made me feel comfortable, made me laugh and gone to sort drinks giving me a moment to get the lie of the land.

 

He comes back.

Asks me how my journey was.

Me: 11 minutes on the train with no air con can be hellish! You were dead quick at the bar though so I'll be good in a sec, gimme 5! Lol!

 

Him: I drove and saw actual real road rage! Traffic stopped and one guy almost got run over!

Me: OMG! Was he OK?

Him : Yeah, the twit stopped, tried to do a 'sexy' manoeuvre, crashed into a lamp post and whizzed off!

Me: Jeez! Let's hope today isn't a car crash! Lol!

Do you ever get road rage? U get pavement rage...

Him: Yeah, gotta be honest, I do sometimes, those guys who clean your windscreen are a nightmare! Like a clingy girlfriend or the elderley Aunt that you do love but is kissing her 'really required'? Really?

Me: Hell yeah! You may be related but she is that old that she would still appreciate a little kiss on the cheek from a good looking guy!Call it 'care in the community!

Him:Pavement Rage..OK, explain...(with a grin and a teasing look in his eye'

 

See what i mean? And therefore what IMAJ is wanting to see too?

 

This is very typical of a first meet or a date of mine.

Fun, jovial, teasing, flow.

 

This is what we need to see - the Me: & Her: conversations.

The actual body moves and the words.

[ZA Dater]

I am not ignoring the rest of your post ZA but at this point it may be best to focus on one thing. Otherwise this is just going to keep going around and round in circles and we won't ever get anywhere.

 

 

 

It would be very useful if you go into more detail the beginning of the last date you went on, in particular from the moment when you first saw each other in person, to when you were pretty sure she had gone cold.

 

Included details should be:

--where you and she decided to meet up

--how you greeted her when you saw her the first time in person

--what you talked about/what questions you asked her, and how she responded

--what she asked you and how you responded

--anything else said by either party--you or her--that sticks out.

 

What would be most useful would be details about the *first 15 minutes* of the date, where it was that you seemed to have lost her, so we can advise how to change this going forward.

 

 

 

Another recent date was much the same. I tend to try and find things which they are interested in and use those as branches of conversation. I make a very conscious decision not to talk about myself, unless they ask about me, which seldom happens.

 

 

The last date with a teacher and for reference the Education Department over burdens teachers with admin here so I asked her what she thought of the state of education and I got this half baked reply " well its a lot of work", I asked for an opinion....its exactly this which irritates me, have an opinion on something.

 

 

Then lets go to another interaction with someone else.

 

 

Me: You are so confident

Her: Smile and wink at me and "well it wasn't always so easy, I used to get teased at school and had no friends, they would ask me to sit down for lunch and then mock me"

Me: Yes I know what that is like, I had a similar problem, they never got me, its amazing how nasty people can be at school, though I did have a lot of good times

Her: Tell me about one of your best times.

Me: ...

 

 

So the conversation flowed and I shared things about me, asked her things about her and it was really nice. She took an interest in me.

 

 

I smiled, she smiled and it just worked. She was comfortable to open up with me and I shared more than I had ever done before. My views were challenged and I had to think.

[GemmaUK]

Another recent date was much the same. I tend to try and find things which they are interested in and use those as branches of conversation. I make a very conscious decision not to talk about myself, unless they ask about me, which seldom happens.

 

 

The last date with a teacher and for reference the Education Department over burdens teachers with admin here so I asked her what she thought of the state of education and I got this half baked reply " well its a lot of work", I asked for an opinion....its exactly this which irritates me, have an opinion on something.

 

 

Then lets go to another interaction with someone else.

 

 

Me: You are so confident

Her: Smile and wink at me and "well it wasn't always so easy, I used to get teased at school and had no friends, they would ask me to sit down for lunch and then mock me"

Me: Yes I know what that is like, I had a similar problem, they never got me, its amazing how nasty people can be at school, though I did have a lot of good times

Her: Tell me about one of your best times.

Me: ...

 

 

So the conversation flowed and I shared things about me, asked her things about her and it was really nice. She took an interest in me.

 

 

I smiled, she smiled and it just worked. She was comfortable to open up with me and I shared more than I had ever done before. My views were challenged and I had to think.

 

So, your next date, give us the above same details.

What you said, what she said.

Clearly you get it, you just don't like to provide it.

 

The less info you give the less we can help because the more we have to speculate.

 

You work in business for goodness sakes! Facts and details are important.Yes or No?

[ZA Dater]

What IMAJ meant (forgive me here IMAJ - but I'm drilling down here). was we need to see actual 'detail'

 

EG: Myself and Mr X chatted online for about 5 days and realised we have a fair bit in common, he, like me, loves outdoor music festivals, cars and car shows, one off Italian restaurants, one off Mexican restaurants (and in fact we love the same one! It was nearer to me but moved to a new location nearer to him) We also both like hiking - nothing too harsh, no rock climbing but a good walk/hike with great views is something we both enjoy.

He's quite nice looking, has been married and has kids now mid-late teens.

He and his ex wife (whom he was married to for 20 years) have a good relationship and share care and responsibility for their offspring.

His ex is re-married and by Mr X's account and that of the kids a good guy.

 

We decide to meet for a mid afternoon drink on a Sunday, we're both really busy work wise, me, in accounts he in IT. We both have projects going on so know this meet up will be pretty short and sweet and due to schedules and if we wish to meet again it will definitely not be until the following weekend.

 

We meet in a bar, recognise each other, smile, quick kiss on one cheek - oh he kisses on two - slightly awkward for me but funny! Lol!

He was there waiting for me with a drink on a table on his own. When he stood up he was taller than me and his 5ft 6in was no lie.

His eyes sparked when he saw me and he got a little flustered looking and that was nice to see but he smiled a lot when seeing me.

He was quick to ask what i wanted to drink and moved his hands to suggest I sit down and he would look after it.

I sat and saw he had barely touched his pint so I asked for a pint of cider.

He went off to get the drinks telling me 'this is your time to run ya know...but I will ask if there is a window in the ladies toilet that you can jump out of if you need to later. I've already checked the Men's and I'm covered - back up plan intact! Three people on speed dial too if you are an axe murderer! Lol!

 

So, he goes to the bar whilst I still, cool off from my walk, he's funny, his eyes lit up seeing me and his eyebrows raised - good sign.

He has a good bum - which I can see, good pair of Levis and he's as described, lean.

He's made me feel comfortable, made me laugh and gone to sort drinks giving me a moment to get the lie of the land.

 

He comes back.

Asks me how my journey was.

Me: 11 minutes on the train with no air con can be hellish! You were dead quick at the bar though so I'll be good in a sec, gimme 5! Lol!

 

Him: I drove and saw actual real road rage! Traffic stopped and one guy almost got run over!

Me: OMG! Was he OK?

Him : Yeah, the twit stopped, tried to do a 'sexy' manoeuvre, crashed into a lamp post and whizzed off!

Me: Jeez! Let's hope today isn't a car crash! Lol!

Do you ever get road rage? U get pavement rage...

Him: Yeah, gotta be honest, I do sometimes, those guys who clean your windscreen are a nightmare! Like a clingy girlfriend or the elderley Aunt that you do love but is kissing her 'really required'? Really?

Me: Hell yeah! You may be related but she is that old that she would still appreciate a little kiss on the cheek from a good looking guy!Call it 'care in the community!

Him:Pavement Rage..OK, explain...(with a grin and a teasing look in his eye'

 

See what i mean? And therefore what IMAJ is wanting to see too?

 

This is very typical of a first meet or a date of mine.

Fun, jovial, teasing, flow.

 

This is what we need to see - the Me: & Her: conversations.

The actual body moves and the words.

 

 

That's rather detailed. My dates never flow like that, if anything most of involved random subjects, am working at getting at banter which I can do some of the time.

 

 

Truthfully and you know this I don't really take that much notice of body language in great levels of detail. Ironically I am trying to use it more and trying be a bit a cheeky "hey don't I get a hug goodbye".

 

 

 

Your date above sounds "fun" for want of a better word, I don't seem to work very well at those of dates BUT when challenged to I can try and I do let my hair down a bit but the only way for this to happen is I need to really like the person to begin with.

 

 

I'll try get something detailed, perhaps use an example of where things have gone well.

[ZA Dater]

So, your next date, give us the above same details.

What you said, what she said.

Clearly you get it, you just don't like to provide it.

 

The less info you give the less we can help because the more we have to speculate.

 

You work in business for goodness sakes! Facts and details are important.Yes or No?

 

 

 

Not sure when the next date is going to be....not anytime soon based on the current prospects. I have a friend dinner next week which should be quite fun, these are usually just vicarious nonsense but at least I can try thing without loosing anything and not gaining anything either.

 

 

I'll try take details of this because I don't see there being any other dates soon.

[GemmaUK]

Not sure when the next date is going to be....not anytime soon based on the current prospects. I have a friend dinner next week which should be quite fun, these are usually just vicarious nonsense but at least I can try thing without loosing anything and not gaining anything either.

 

 

I'll try take details of this because I don't see there being any other dates soon.

 

Just describe the next meet you go on as above with conversation.

At this point what is past is pointless.

Start afresh.

[Chilli]

1: Coffee shop

2: With a hug and a smile

3: Ok I tried to take an interest in her, find out what she found interesting, how her day had been, bring up general topics like the weather and generally try and keep the conversation light, nothing heavy at all. Her responses were ok but there was nothing directed at me as such, no questions about me, the topics continued to be general and non specific, i.e. I wasn't actually finding anything out about her she was just talking about whatever general topic. I asked her about her work, if she had any pets, if there was any specific place she liked, any specific food. Generally I respond either seriously or comically to try and infuse some humour into the date.

4: refer above

 

 

I didn't so much as loose her as not really have a lot of interest in her to begin with, MOSTLY because the conversation was so one sided as they all seem to be. When this happens I loose all interest, especially if the conversation is small talk exclusively.

 

 

Sometimes as I did here I will try resort to selling myself to an extent but I don't particularly enjoy doing that.

 

 

Likewise the hiking date I went on, its so tough to explain but I either get the person or I don't, I just never feel like many of these dating are being particularly nice to me, as odd as that sounds. I think the problem is as some have said I am not looking at these dates as romantic from the outset, I need to meet the person and then decide how much I am going to risk/put into the date.

 

 

Despite the thoughts here I do actually try get people to laugh, I do try not to be serious but often what sits in front of me isn't really what I want to begin with so perhaps subconsciously disinterest and disappointment does show.

444

 

 

If it was me , most of this would be def' no no's

And selling myself eff that, and to who someone not even interested anyway, l'd be seein what she's sellin.

you don't have to risk anything, it's a two way street let her do some work too, but it takes time , don't force it.

Asking all this stuff man sounds like an interview, agree with bas you really gotta loosen up, relax let things happen a bit.

Givit time to get a feel for each other , things to flow a bit, get comfortable .

Edited July 13, 2018 by Chilli

[OatsAndHall]

There is a harsh reality and it's this; there are behavior and attitudes that are attractive and socially acceptable in this world and there are those that aren't. If an individual displays a behavior or attitude that isn't socially acceptable (i.e. people don't want to be around them...) then they will have the change if they want to interact with society. It's not rocket science; if a person is only getting a couple of dates before folks cut them off, then they are the common denominator; not society and not the 'dating world'.

 

 

 

Every once in awhile, I venture back into the OLD world to see what is out there. Every time I do, a woman that I went out on a date with three years ago is active on OLD. I can tell you EXACTLY why she is still active and single; she's abrasive, confrontational, and rude. She's a physically attractive woman but the one hour I spent her was painful due to the fact that she was miserable to be around.

 

 

 

So, the short answer to the question posed by the title of the this thread is this; people won't like someone for "who they are" if "who they are" isn't enjoyable to spend time with. And, honestly, most of the people that I run into that are like this aren't happy with themselves or their station in life. They're searching for happiness through a significant other when they need to focus on being comfortable in their own skin and making friends first.

Edited July 14, 2018 by OatsAndHall

[GemmaUK]

The last date with a teacher and for reference the Education Department over burdens teachers with admin here so I asked her what she thought of the state of education and I got this half baked reply " well its a lot of work", I asked for an opinion....its exactly this which irritates me, have an opinion on something.

I missed this yesterday, spotted it today.

You're expectations are so unrealistic man!

She's clearly a woman who loves her job and is trying to just get by and do it to the best of her ability.

OF COURSE(!!!) she has opinions on it but just like politics, religion etc. she's doing the right thing by not sabbotaging a date by launching into what could end up being an argument on a subject which involves politics (education politics).

Her response was spot on for the situation you were in - a FIRST MEET or a FIRST DATE!!

My advice is go to protest rallies - search them out to meet people. There will be people there passionately opinionated

You will become unstuck once again though due to this:

Truthfully and you know this I don't really take that much notice of body language in great levels of detail. Ironically I am trying to use it more and trying be a bit a cheeky "hey don't I get a hug goodbye".

 

The underlined.

E V E R Y B O D Y displays and reads body language - all to different levels but to actively avoid it is ridiculous. Even protesters will use it and read it when they are looking for someone to date (or any other time they interact with anyone else in any situation or setting) - which is where you will become unstuck.

 

The bold part - that isn't being cheeky - that would come over as desperate and a sly sarcastic dig at the end of what was likely a horrible date actually and would have come across as pushing your luck, not to mention the creepy factor - which would also come into play depending how bad the date was for her.

But you don't understand how bad saying that is. If a hug is not forthcoming then don't ask for it.

Had you paid any attention to body language on that date/s where you've said that at the end you would have known there wouldn't be any hug and you would have known not to say something like that.

[Imajerk17]

I think GammaUK gave you great advice. I think going forward even more detail about your dates as she specified would be great. But meanwhile some things you said stood out. ZA, in general you need to realize that your idea of a date--where you sit down and ask them a bunch of earnest interview questions gleaned from their profiles about their hobbies and their jobs, is actually NOT fun for the girl. It's not fun for anyone really.

 

 

Another recent date was much the same. I tend to try and find things which they are interested in and use those as branches of conversation. I make a very conscious decision not to talk about myself, unless they ask about me, which seldom happens.

 

 

The last date with a teacher and for reference the Education Department over burdens teachers with admin here so I asked her what she thought of the state of education and I got this half baked reply " well its a lot of work", I asked for an opinion....its exactly this which irritates me, have an opinion on something.

 

Yeah, I can understand her reply to you. Probably a conversation she least wants to get into is one about ins and outs of the drudgery of her job, and a heavy intellectual political discussion about "the state of education" where she may have to defend her views is even less appealing to her.

 

RE her being a teacher, I instead would have told her about my crush on my 3rd grade teacher--even when she sent notes home for me not doing my homework I found myself admiring her handwriting! Good questions to ask also would be "What is it like teaching xth graders? That can be a tough age!"

 

 

 

Then lets go to another interaction with someone else.

 

 

Me: You are so confident

Her: Smile and wink at me and "well it wasn't always so easy, I used to get teased at school and had no friends, they would ask me to sit down for lunch and then mock me"

Me: Yes I know what that is like, I had a similar problem, they never got me, its amazing how nasty people can be at school, though I did have a lot of good times

Her: Tell me about one of your best times.

Me: ...

 

 

So the conversation flowed and I shared things about me, asked her things about her and it was really nice. She took an interest in me.

 

 

I smiled, she smiled and it just worked. She was comfortable to open up with me and I shared more than I had ever done before. My views were challenged and I had to think.

 

That is much better. See what you did--you *noticed* something about her, just from spending time in her presence. You didn't just ask her some questions off her profile, as a hiring manager would off someone's resume.

 

Truthfully and you know this I don't really take that much notice of body language in great levels of detail. Ironically I am trying to use it more and trying be a bit a cheeky "hey don't I get a hug goodbye".

 

Um, don't even go there man. It's not 'cheeky', it is instead an angry finish to what had to have been quite an unpleasant date.

 

If she was loath to hug you at the end of the date in the first place--and if this being a typical reaction for you--then that is bad. It is a sign that something consistently is going wrong during the dates turning the woman off. Keep in mind that many many first dates do NOT lead to second dates. But even then a more normal response is the guy and the girl ending the date w a hug and maybe a kiss.

 

That you don't take notice of body language struck me as a strange sentence. You may not be consciously aware of the angles her feet are pointing, but surely you are getting the main message--i.e., awareness of whether your date is comfortable or not, whether she is having a good time? What are you paying attention to?

Edited July 14, 2018 by Imajerk17

[GemmaUK]

I think GammaUK gave you great advice. I think going forward even more detail about your dates as she specified would be great. But meanwhile some things you said stood out. ZA, in general you need to realize that your idea of a date--where you sit down and ask them a bunch of earnest interview questions gleaned from their profiles about their hobbies and their jobs, is actually NOT fun for the girl. It's not fun for anyone really.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I can understand her reply to you. Probably a conversation she least wants to get into is one about ins and outs of the drudgery of her job, and a heavy intellectual political discussion about "the state of education" where she may have to defend her views is even less appealing to her.

 

RE her being a teacher, I instead would have told her about my crush on my 3rd grade teacher--even when she sent notes home for me not doing my homework I found myself admiring her handwriting! Good questions to ask also would be "What is it like teaching xth graders? That can be a tough age!"

 

 

 

 

 

That is much better. See what you did--you *noticed* something about her, just from spending time in her presence. You didn't just ask her some questions off her profile, as a hiring manager would off someone's resume.

 

 

 

Um, don't even go there man. It's not 'cheeky', it is instead an angry finish to what had to have been quite an unpleasant date.

 

If she was loath to hug you at the end of the date in the first place--and if this being a typical reaction for you--then that is bad. It is a sign that something consistently is going wrong during the dates turning the woman off. Keep in mind that many many first dates do NOT lead to second dates. But even then a more normal response is the guy and the girl ending the date w a hug and maybe a kiss.

 

That you don't take notice of body language struck me as a strange sentence. You may not be consciously aware of the angles her feet are pointing, but surely you are getting the main message--i.e., awareness of whether your date is comfortable or not, whether she is having a good time? What are you paying attention to?

 

100% agree again.

Looking forward to see the replies.

[OatsAndHall]

I'm a teacher and I can tell you that the state of education is the LAST thing I want to talk about on a date, especially with someone outside of the field. Teachers have varying degrees of opinions on this subject, some are more passionate than others but the vast majority of us have learned not to discuss it outside of our own professional groups.

 

 

 

So, I find it pretty obnoxious that you looked down on this woman when because you brought up a topic that either made her uncomfortable or she didn't want to discuss. You decided she wasn't 'intellectually stimulating' because she wasn't willing to open up a can of worms. Particularly a can of worms that I seriously doubt you understand anything about.

 

 

 

And what did you think was going to come out of that conversation if she chose to bite in the first place? Her complaining about her job? A deep, involved conversation about the inadequacies of the U.S. education system? Those types of conversations do not equate to a relaxed and enjoyable first date.

 

 

 

I'm going to be blunt here; that story illustrates your absolute need to develop much better communication and social skills before you complain about how the dating world has wronged you.

Edited July 14, 2018 by OatsAndHall

[GemmaUK]

I'm a teacher and I can tell you that the state of education is the LAST thing I want to talk about on a date, especially with someone outside of the field. Teachers have varying degrees of opinions on this subject, some are more passionate than others but the vast majority of us have learned not to discuss it outside of our own professional groups.

 

 

 

So, I find it pretty obnoxious that you looked down on this woman when because you brought up a topic that either made her uncomfortable or she didn't want to discuss. You decided she wasn't 'intellectually stimulating' because she wasn't willing to open up a can of worms. Particularly a can of worms that I seriously doubt you understand anything about.

 

 

 

And what did you think was going to come out of that conversation if she chose to bite in the first place? Her complaining about her job? A deep, involved conversation about the inadequacies of the U.S. education system? Those types of conversations do not equate to a relaxed and enjoyable first date.

 

 

 

I'm going to be blunt here; that story illustrates your absolute need to develop much better communication and social skills before you complain about how the dating world has wronged you.

 

Bloody agree again!

 

I have no favourites here btw.

Common sense reigns.

 

Sorry if I appear condescending - it;s not that. I've been replying to ZA for well over 2 years is where it comes from.

[ZA Dater]

I think GammaUK gave you great advice. I think going forward even more detail about your dates as she specified would be great. But meanwhile some things you said stood out. ZA, in general you need to realize that your idea of a date--where you sit down and ask them a bunch of earnest interview questions gleaned from their profiles about their hobbies and their jobs, is actually NOT fun for the girl. It's not fun for anyone really.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I can understand her reply to you. Probably a conversation she least wants to get into is one about ins and outs of the drudgery of her job, and a heavy intellectual political discussion about "the state of education" where she may have to defend her views is even less appealing to her.

 

RE her being a teacher, I instead would have told her about my crush on my 3rd grade teacher--even when she sent notes home for me not doing my homework I found myself admiring her handwriting! Good questions to ask also would be "What is it like teaching xth graders? That can be a tough age!"

 

 

 

 

 

That is much better. See what you did--you *noticed* something about her, just from spending time in her presence. You didn't just ask her some questions off her profile, as a hiring manager would off someone's resume.

 

 

 

Um, don't even go there man. It's not 'cheeky', it is instead an angry finish to what had to have been quite an unpleasant date.

 

If she was loath to hug you at the end of the date in the first place--and if this being a typical reaction for you--then that is bad. It is a sign that something consistently is going wrong during the dates turning the woman off. Keep in mind that many many first dates do NOT lead to second dates. But even then a more normal response is the guy and the girl ending the date w a hug and maybe a kiss.

 

That you don't take notice of body language struck me as a strange sentence. You may not be consciously aware of the angles her feet are pointing, but surely you are getting the main message--i.e., awareness of whether your date is comfortable or not, whether she is having a good time? What are you paying attention to?

 

 

The good exchange was with someone I know pretty well and wasn't a date. Likewise the cheeky hug, which I got with a smile I might add. I could only ask her that question because she actually volunteered some information, ironically it all started with my admission I am probably seen as a misfit. Again this wasn't a date.

 

 

Well then why put all that on your profile if you don't want to chat about it? Honestly what am I expected to talk about then?

 

 

I'd have thought talking about ones job is perfectly normal, seems not, I asked her about how she finds teaching and go vague answers. I then asked why she choose to get into teaching and more vague answers.

 

 

No idea if they are comfortable or not, I guess if one sits with you for 4 hours she is pretty comfortable.

[OatsAndHall]

The good exchange was with someone I know pretty well and wasn't a date. Likewise the cheeky hug, which I got with a smile I might add. I could only ask her that question because she actually volunteered some information, ironically it all started with my admission I am probably seen as a misfit. Again this wasn't a date.

 

 

Well then why put all that on your profile if you don't want to chat about it? Honestly what am I expected to talk about then?

 

 

I'd have thought talking about ones job is perfectly normal, seems not, I asked her about how she finds teaching and go vague answers. I then asked why she choose to get into teaching and more vague answers.

 

 

No idea if they are comfortable or not, I guess if one sits with you for 4 hours she is pretty comfortable.

 

 

Asking someone about their job is one thing. Asking them about the politically charged environment surrounding their job is an entirely different subject entirely. And, asking someone about their job can be hit or miss as well because you never know if they've had a sh-t day at work and are going out on a date to get away from it.

 

 

 

This is why you lead in with simple, fun conversation starters such as "So, tell me about -insert her name-." Or, "How'd the day treat you?" Give the conversation some room to go somewhere.. Don't narrow it down to specific topics.. People's profiles are nothing more than attention grabbers. The interests that they post up there are simply there for comparison and not necessarily good conversation topics, particularly on a first date.

 

 

It seems to me as if you are missing the point of dating; to meet someone and enjoy some time together. They're nothing more and nothing less than that.

 

 

 

Yeah, she spent four hours with you but you didn't mention anything about a second date...

[GemmaUK]

It seems to me as if you are missing the point of dating; to meet someone and enjoy some time together. They're nothing more and nothing less than that.

 

I agree with everything else you posted O&H.

This part is particularly relevant so as not to encourage our OP to go off on another tangent or diatribe.

It's what a date is after all.