CptInsano Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I'm not seeing the difference between these two. a) you're saying you were interested but they were disinterested which was bad, then b) you're saying you were interested but they were disinterested which was okay. Are you saying that you were willing to go into the friendzone in both cases but a) would not allow you to because they weren't really interested in being true friends? No. The friendzone as I see it is a version of a fade or a backburner. She is not really interested, maybe would like some attention, and the guy still has some hope that things would change. You are being strung along for entertainment or because both sides are trying to avoid a confrontation. Friendships to me are different, far more honest and balanced in the level of effort and interest, the friendzone is not. I see the latter more as a euphemism. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Chilli Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) l don't think there's anything wrong with getting to know each other a bit first. And it's nothing to do with manning up that's rubbish, he might just wanna know her a bit first before jumping in. Things get complicated once your in very quickly , why go there before your sure. l can tell ya right now, the worst part about getting involved is getting uninvolved later if you have too. Go there a few times and you soon wake up. Might surprise a lot of people round here but there's heaps of women out there that wanna get to know a guy for awhile first. smart women l say. Edited February 26, 2018 by Chilli 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SevenCity Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 No. The friendzone as I see it is a version of a fade or a backburner. She is not really interested, maybe would like some attention, and the guy still has some hope that things would change. You are being strung along for entertainment or because both sides are trying to avoid a confrontation. Friendships to me are different, far more honest and balanced in the level of effort and interest, the friendzone is not. I see the latter more as a euphemism. This. When a woman says “I just like you as a friend” she’s not going to be hanging out with you on a lonely Friday night, helping you move, or driving you to the airport. It’s a euphemism for “I don’t want to have sex with you”. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Jj66 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I do love romance. The steady progression into something more, as Cpt put it. The getting to know each other, the build up, the imagination, the looking forward to something..... all of that. It's gone nowadays. So sad. It still happens with extra marital affairs. That might be how people who are not prone to cheat can find themselves caught up in one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Whether it's true or not, most guys will view it as if it was a friend first, then became a relationship- all that means is he was the fallback option....the pansy....the guy who she settled for once all the others blew her off or used her up and mistreated her.... Kind of like what Jenny did to Forrest Gump..... TFY Which is a totally valid way to view that story - the flip side is that you can view it as that she loved him all along, but hated herself too much to allow herself to have the deep and meaningful relationship with someone she truly cared for, so instead kept running off with people who she knew would mistreat her so she didn't have to actually open up to them. (been there) I just think it's interesting how the same story can look very different from different perspectives. (also I do hope that 'most guys' don't actually think 'Wow, if I got a woman without mistreating her that means I'm a pansy' ) Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Which is a totally valid way to view that story - the flip side is that you can view it as that she loved him all along, but hated herself too much to allow herself to have the deep and meaningful relationship with someone she truly cared for, so instead kept running off with people who she knew would mistreat her so she didn't have to actually open up to them. (been there) I just think it's interesting how the same story can look very different from different perspectives. (also I do hope that 'most guys' don't actually think 'Wow, if I got a woman without mistreating her that means I'm a pansy' ) Sounds good in theory.... But think about it this way.... If you found someone you truly connect with(and this is true for either gender), why would you risk that the other person would move along, because they don't feel desired(in the romantic/sexual way)?? I dunno....Im not saying people need to have monkey sex the minute they meet for the relationship to be valid, but that whole game.."let's just be friends and see where it goes" seems like something people do(mostly women here) when they don't want to commit or feel that person isn't "the one" but they want to keep options open just in case.... Self respecting men don't put up with that... TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author darkmoon Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 Sounds good in theory.... But think about it this way.... If you found someone you truly connect with(and this is true for either gender), why would you risk that the other person would move along, because they don't feel desired(in the romantic/sexual way)?? I dunno....Im not saying people need to have monkey sex the minute they meet for the relationship to be valid, but that whole game.."let's just be friends and see where it goes" seems like something people do(mostly women here) when they don't want to commit or feel that person isn't "the one" but they want to keep options open just in case.... Self respecting men don't put up with that... TFY So how do you get close enough to a woman to be your girlfriend, to get sex, without harassing her, or pressuring her? Link to post Share on other sites
CptInsano Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 So how do you get close enough to a woman to be your girlfriend, to get sex, without harassing her, or pressuring her? Because she is just as interested and communicated that clearly? Plus, asking for a date (at least once) is not harrassment, at least in my book. So far I've been able to read the signs correctly, and it has never been an issue. To be honest, most signs were so obvious that they were hard to misinterpret. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 So how do you get close enough to a woman to be your girlfriend, to get sex, without harassing her, or pressuring her? You make it sound like every guy has to do a dog and pony show or won't get near a woman without some form of coercion......Some do, I guess??...*shrug* TFY 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author darkmoon Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 You make it sound like every guy has to do a dog and pony show or won't get near a woman without some form of coercion......Some do, I guess??...*shrug* TFY] So how do you get close enough to a woman to be your girlfriend, to get sex, without harassing her, or pressuring her? dogs and ponies? no am discussing humans, it is a straight question, so please answer it, cheers Link to post Share on other sites
CptInsano Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 ] So how do you get close enough to a woman to be your girlfriend, to get sex, without harassing her, or pressuring her? dogs and ponies? no am discussing humans, it is a straight question, so please answer it, cheers A "dog and pony show" is an American idiom for putting on a show. He meant to say, if I may speculate, that a guy doesn't have to put on a show or enormous effort to attract a woman. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 This. When a woman says “I just like you as a friend” she’s not going to be hanging out with you on a lonely Friday night, helping you move, or driving you to the airport. It’s a euphemism for “I don’t want to have sex with you”. But a friend can hang out with you on a friday night, help you move, drive you to the airport and still not want to have sex with you. Back in my younger friendzone days (when I was naive), I did that with my male BFF's . It still happens with extra marital affairs. That might be how people who are not prone to cheat can find themselves caught up in one. Probably! Link to post Share on other sites
Eternal Sunshine Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 For me, friendzone is ideal. That's why OLD works so poorly. I prefer to get to know a person and connect emotionally before I am ready to even hold hands, let alone anything else. Even chatting for a long time before meeting doesn't do much because I need to connect in person. I need to develop a period of fantasazing and longing before I can really enjoy anything physical. Having said that, there needs to be some level of atrtaction from the get go. Friends from work or similar would be ideal but I don't know anyone above age of 25 that's single in real life. With OLD, it's pretty much making out on date 2 and sex on dates 3-5. I used to go along with this because guys seemed to lose interest if I didn't. I would basically go along while feeling nothing and hope that as I get to know them my feelings will catch up. It never works out because I end up bailing to avoid the physical side too early. That's the main reason I stopped OLD. There is really no solution except hoping that one day I will somehow meet someone in real life and things will click into place without feeling that anything is forced. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 There is really no solution except hoping that one day I will somehow meet someone in real life and things will click into place without feeling that anything is forced. we're all looking for that ES 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I think we're conflating friend-zone and friends first. My understanding with the friend-zone is that one party has already determined that sex is never going to happen. Friends first involves a slower pace of getting to know each other before things get sexual. I've never had a good experience with friends first dating. The woman always expected the various benefits of a relationship: Take her out on dates, help with various tasks (moving, heavy lifting, car rides, etc.), and emotional support. However, I never got the things I wanted out of that arrangement. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I think we're conflating friend-zone and friends first. My understanding with the friend-zone is that one party has already determined that sex is never going to happen. Friends first involves a slower pace of getting to know each other before things get sexual. Well part of the problem is that people use 'friend zone' to mean anything from "i just met her and she's refusing to have sex with me tonight" to "we were dating for five years and now she dumped me and she's refusing to have sex with me tonight" And of course if you meet someone who needs to build a connection before they can feel attraction and pressure them to decide RIGHT NOW if they want to have sex with you, they're going to say no, and you might then go home and sulk that you were friendzoned. So yeah, everything is conflated. Each situation is its own story. Sometimes one person is being too pushy and ruining their own chances. Sometimes one person looks so disinterested that the other gives up. Sometimes one person is just oblivious and doesn't even consider the non-friend possibility until later. Who knows! Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Sounds good in theory.... But think about it this way.... If you found someone you truly connect with(and this is true for either gender), why would you risk that the other person would move along, because they don't feel desired(in the romantic/sexual way)?? I dunno....Im not saying people need to have monkey sex the minute they meet for the relationship to be valid, but that whole game.."let's just be friends and see where it goes" seems like something people do(mostly women here) when they don't want to commit or feel that person isn't "the one" but they want to keep options open just in case.... Well, if you're the sort of person who needs time to build a connection, then if you were asked on first meeting "hey, wanna date?" you wouldn't have that feeling of true connection yet. So it wouldn't be a matter of turning down someone you truly connected with, because you wouldn't have truly connected with them yet. "Let's be friends and see where it goes" sounds like someone who's not sure yet whether they want you or not, to me. They don't know you well enough yet to know whether you should have a thing. It's not something I've had people say to me though so maybe I'm offbase there. Link to post Share on other sites
Jj66 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 A big difference between being friends and being put in the friend zone. Being put in the friend zone means possibility of romance has been written off. Nothing wrong with being friends. My fiancée refers to us as "best friends with benefits". But in our case the friendship developed much more slowly than the physical relationship. Because we were physical so early I wouldn't call ours a romance in the classical sense. It was more a friendship grew between two people drawn together by mutual lust. Now, on the other hand I have had friendships turn into romantic relationships a couple of times. And it really is an awesome way to proceed when it does happen. You start developing feelings for the person you are spending time with, start mutually crushing on each other. One day, you kiss. Or one of you confesses feelings. And then it's on like Donkey Kong once the tension from months of build up is released. Link to post Share on other sites
CptInsano Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I think we're conflating friend-zone and friends first. My understanding with the friend-zone is that one party has already determined that sex is never going to happen. Friends first involves a slower pace of getting to know each other before things get sexual. In my experience I largely consider the two the same. The exception being both parties knowing each other prior to the decision to start dating. Once the concept of dating comes into play it's over, you're not just friends. Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Getting to know somebody before becoming sexual with them is a GOOD thing. The problem arise when people use imprecise language or don't understand the meaning of basic words. Colloquially being "friend zoned" means there is no change of a romance because one of the people doesn't view the other one in a romantic or sexual way. Accordingly there will be no kissing or hand-holding or cuddling etc. So how do you get close enough to a woman to be your girlfriend, to get sex, without harassing her, or pressuring her? Very simple: you go on dates with the person. A date is not a huge commitment. It is a designated time when two people will spend time together getting to know one another, talking, laughing & just being with an eye toward determining if there is enough interest to go further, to want to spend even more time together. You go on dates to determine if you want to be BF/GF. Those dates are the times when you lay the foundation for closeness by talking & sharing & getting to know each other. These dates can be the classic dinner dates or they can be taking a walk, playing a sport together, or anything else that interests the two people involved. The dates should offer some opportunity to interact with each other which is why movies are not ideal because you can't talk during the show but the darkness can help foster a closeness. Afterwards you can get insight into the person by discussing what you just saw. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Well, if you're the sort of person who needs time to build a connection, then if you were asked on first meeting "hey, wanna date?" you wouldn't have that feeling of true connection yet. So it wouldn't be a matter of turning down someone you truly connected with, because you wouldn't have truly connected with them yet. "Let's be friends and see where it goes" sounds like someone who's not sure yet whether they want you or not, to me. They don't know you well enough yet to know whether you should have a thing. It's not something I've had people say to me though so maybe I'm offbase there. Hypothetical....Never had that experience either, but have heard it and its a common thing among some people.. I think people(esp some of the women here) are seeing it as an "all or nothing" scenario... Either friend forever with the scant possibility of a chance down the road, to being in bed on the second date.....Its not all that... I know of no decent guy that wouldn't wait whatever time to get to know a woman, so long as the signs are there...Maybe they make out but dont eff...Maybe there are other signals...Whatever...I don't think adults on either side wait forever..but body language is such that the guy knows where its going and there is no grey area.. I get it...For some reason women like orbiters...Guys who are desirable and have options, don't play that crap...They may even have orbiters themselves, but it's there or its not..Period.... TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Darkmoon, to get some perspective, can you tell me if you have a circle of friends and have no trouble with having friends but only just dating? I ask because usually if you are able to keep friends, it's not that big of a leap to meet and date someone. I don't necessarily mean date the friend but just that if you're comfortable socially, dating shouldn't be too big a challenge. Link to post Share on other sites
SevenCity Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I think we're conflating friend-zone and friends first. My understanding with the friend-zone is that one party has already determined that sex is never going to happen. Friends first involves a slower pace of getting to know each other before things get sexual. I've never had a good experience with friends first dating. The woman always expected the various benefits of a relationship: Take her out on dates, help with various tasks (moving, heavy lifting, car rides, etc.), and emotional support. However, I never got the things I wanted out of that arrangement. I never heard of “friends first” until OLD. Anytime I see “friends” and dating I run. How many of these chicks are paying 1/2 of the date? Are they picking you up half the time? Are they opening doors half the time? If they do, I would be totally down with that 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I think we're conflating friend-zone and friends first. My understanding with the friend-zone is that one party has already determined that sex is never going to happen. Friends first involves a slower pace of getting to know each other before things get sexual. Correct. These two are vastly different. I've never had a good experience with friends first dating. The woman always expected the various benefits of a relationship: Take her out on dates, help with various tasks (moving, heavy lifting, car rides, etc.), and emotional support. However, I never got the things I wanted out of that arrangement. What did you want out of the arrangement? Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I never heard of “friends first” until OLD. Anytime I see “friends” and dating I run. How many of these chicks are paying 1/2 of the date? Are they picking you up half the time? Are they opening doors half the time? If they do, I would be totally down with that I believe "friends first" just means go slow with physical intimacy. Link to post Share on other sites
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