wife is staying with friends - says she's "done"

[StoicHusband]

I wished it would have played out differently but at least you see her in a new light now. You do deserve better. She was right to say that.

 

Thanks. I agree with her on that one.

[Marc878]

We talked on Friday night, she told me how bad things have been for her and how she's really happy to see me doing well. She was a wreck, I hated seeing her that way. (at the time)

 

Nothing but words

 

She went on to say that she made a huge mistake (yeah) and that she was just hooked on the way he made her feel when they started the emotional affair at work. She explained how disappointed she's been with every aspect of the relationship after that. He's inadequate as a lover, she hates the way he treats her, always on his games, he calls her names, says he hates "emotional bull****" (brought on by the craziness that comes with birth control which he had her start), he never understands how she feels and to top it all off, no one likes him at all (he's socially awkward)

 

Hmmmm she's trashing him like she did you. See a pattern here? I do.

 

I explained that I can't just jump back into what we had, there's no way it could ever be the same (intimacy-wise). There is no way forward for me without a ton of work from her. I asked if she was willing to see a counselor together, she said she'd do that. Asked if she would learn to express herself and not leave me guessing, she agreed it would be necessary. We discussed everything it would take to get back together, she even volunteered for an STD test.

 

More words without action

 

I asked her if she had someplace else to stay for a while so we could talk things out, she told me she had nowhere to go. I acted a FOOL and allowed her to come home. She went to his house, got some clothes, came home and told him she was with a friend. He didn't hardly notice.

 

Good god!!!! You stood and took that???! Really. Didn't want to make her boyfriend mad but didn't mind ****ting all over you did she?

 

She was forthcoming with everything, completely disclosed everything. I read the messages they sent, everything was slightly better than I thought. It was an emotional affair until she left. I was shocked, pleasantly.

 

We had Saturday together.

 

She broke up with this guy over text after getting all her **** while he was gone. He played cool, "fine **** off" etc. He's a pro... "Enjoy hating your life" We discussed how foolish he was for thinking it was something real. She is married after all...

 

We made plans to go out Monday night. We discussed the concert tickets I've bought, she was excited about them. (Primus/Mastodon and later The Smashing Pumpkins) We started to discuss everything. How I felt as if she had been raped, damn near. Because she didn't want unprotected sex with him, but he insisted. She cried and said she feels so dirty, used. I explained that she is not, I really tried to comfort her.

 

Man you really went all out on the excuses for her. Wow!!!

 

I told her about what I've had going on in life, quite a lot. I delved into everything with her, I really opened up. I feel like a damn fool.

 

She told all her friends she was back and that I am a great guy who never deserved this. She really stuck up for me to a few of them. She made all the right moves.

 

She's a great chameleon

 

Saturday night I allowed her into the bed, we slept together (no sex). We had been kissing, hugging, telling each other we loved one another. She put our status back on facebook (married) I accepted, she put on her ring. I put mine on. We discussed how nice this all was and that it just felt like the right thing to do.

 

She woke me up for work and I am actually working right next door so I was in and out all day. I came home and I said that I could tell something was up, she came out with it. She said she's not physically attracted to me, hasn't been for a long time. She told me she ... doesn't love me and only loves what I can do for her ... she is not sure what she wants in life... I deserve someone who loves me back ... That she think she needs to be alone for a while ... That she is probably going to go stay with her friend (RED FLAG for those who follow my thread)...

 

The only truthful thing she's said

 

She went out to get cat food and a drink just kinda think things over. She said she'd be back soon. She was gone for hours.

 

I came home to get a cigarette, walked in and she was packing a bag. I rolled a cigarette and asked "Are you taking it all?" She said "I don't think I can right now." I said "You and Isaac gonna work things out?" She said "Yes. I am so sorry, Stoic" I said "Yes, you are sorry. Take it all."

 

I picked up her **** and stacked it unceremoniously outside. Not angry, not in a rush, just strictly business... I took back my suitcase and the two shirts of mine that she had taken. I Checked the house for my valuables, they were there.

 

While she was gathering her things I told her "You will regret this." She looked at me as if it were a threat. I said "Not a threat... it's a guarantee. You'll see me accomplish everything I ever planned." She looked like she would cry. I told her "You deserve the way he treats you, you put no value on yourself. It's what held us back for ten years." She almost agreed.

 

you should do the same going forward.

 

 

All you can do is learn from this. You need to cut her off completely now.

 

You jumped way to soon. Respect is a big thing. You showed her she can do anything she wants to you and BAM you're still there waiting. Her other man didn't did he? But she ran right back to him. Strength is attractive. Weakness is not.

 

Only text to discus D. Quit talking and start moving on.

[Marc878]

I do somewhat feel like it's day one again. I'm not going to let myself fall so hard though. It hurts because I know that this is the end for us and I won't be able to trust her ever again.

 

You are correct.

 

I can't thank you all enough for your advice. I did listen, I just had to take my best shot at saving my marriage. Everything I did felt right. I wanted to make her feel better so she'd stop crying. I do love her unconditionally, but now I must learn to love her differently. I did keep it in my mind that this could happen, that helps a great deal.

I regret nothing.

 

I have regrets on things I should have done differently. I think most do. Don't be afraid to have them.

 

Learning from mistakes creates wisdom. It'll make your life better in the future.

 

I'm not so sure you're still in love or maybe have some codependency issues. It might be good to have a few IC sessions. Might do you a lot of good. Especially now. You have to be hurting over this.

 

No matter what you need a hard 180 going forward. Any further contact will just keep you wrapped up in this.

 

Sorry it didn't work out for you

[StoicHusband]

Strength is attractive. Weakness is not.

 

It took such strength to be kind to her. I wish women could see that. Instead, you're right, she mistook it for weakness.

 

Thanks Marc.

[Be_Strong]

It took such strength to be kind to her. I wish women could see that. Instead, you're right, she mistook it for weakness.

 

Thanks Marc.

 

When you asked a few days ago for advice about the best way to reconcile with your wife, I made it about as clear as possible (pretty sure I even used all caps) to not appear eager and make her work for it and especially not to make any decisions in the short term. The whole freaking point of that was to not completely kill her attraction to you. You decided to do it your own way, and no surprise she spends the night, and realizes she has no attraction to you so she runs back to the other man. Your wife gave you an opening and you literally did everything wrong.

 

Silver lining though, I think it’s for the best anyway because it was a mistake to try to get back with her in the first place. I’m happy that your wife didn’t string you along for a few months before going back to the other guy.

[Marc878]

It took such strength to be kind to her. I wish women could see that. Instead, you're right, she mistook it for weakness.

 

Thanks Marc.

 

Just learn from it. Nothing you can do now.

 

The good thing is you now know things.

 

This started as an affair. It wasn't on you.

 

You know who and what she's capable of. She trashed her other man just like she did you. She's a back stabber. She's also fickle. You don't need that kind of drama in your life.

 

You can now if you use what you've learned move ahead faster and turn yourself into the "complete man".

 

She's not special she's a damn cheater and you can do better.

 

You'll be fine long term. Plus you don't have to waste anymore of your time on this.

 

Life is very short. Start living. You're already off yo a good start

[StoicHusband]

Your wife gave you an opening and you literally did everything wrong.

 

Nah, I'm afraid this is on her. I just don't have it in me to treat women like ****. As long as there's a guy on the other end playing "tough guy" she'll run back quicker than you can say "reverse psychology".

 

I'm better off. She's nothing special. Just another woman who wants to hate herself. Good riddance I expect.

 

Honestly am a bit hurt, but as I was working tonight (making up the time I missed ****ing with her) I found I wasn't at all attracted to her either. Literally the only time I felt attraction when she was here was when she cried. It's weird. I don't feel it at all anymore. She is nasty. I was fine to kiss and hug and I am cool with holding her. When I thought of sex, it just wasn't gonna happen.

 

I doubt this would ever have worked out. She wasn't nearly humbled enough by it and she showed exactly who she is by running straight back to him in order to avoid dealing with the guilt of what she had done.

 

He won't last either. She'll probably try to come back in a few more months. I'm gonna get those papers signed before she gets knocked up (she threw away the birth control when she was here). I'm totally done.

 

I do require a woman with self-respect. I understand it's a rarity. My wife had it at one point, there will be another. We'll get along famously and everything I've learned (and earned) will serve us just fine.

[StoicHusband]

Life is very short. Start living. You're already off to a good start

 

I'm not gonna stop living. I think I am of to a good start also.

 

This taught me:

1. Women honestly don't want to be built up (just don't do it).

2. My wife doesn't have any of the skills necessary to maintain a relationship, let alone marriage...

3. I was recovered before. I can be again.

4. I felt literally no different before she came back than I did when she was here. (So why **** with her at all?)

5. There are numerous good things about me that she DOES value and some other woman will too.

 

She told me when she was here that I am the smartest person she's ever met. She said she couldn't believe how well I was doing. She told me numerous other things that on here would sound like either bragging or just ego-stroking on her part.

 

Altogether, a worthwhile experience.

 

So what happened? Well, I was more concerned with comforting a woman who was hurting deeply than I was with saving my marriage, apparently...

 

A victim of my own kind nature.

[StoicHusband]

Your wife gave you an opening and you literally did everything wrong.

 

I had to double back to this (couldn't edit post).

 

I'm not going to blame myself, lol. I did everything in my power to handle this as best I could. In the end, yes, probably dodged a bullet again.

 

I won't fall into the trap of people who get dumped. I won't make it my fault. I know my value, I know hers. **** doesn't add up.

 

If she wanted to be treated like an animal, she knew she was in the wrong place for it (hence her swift exit). There's no way I could have held the grudge forever... Anyone who knows me knows that.

[BluesPower]

I had to double back to this (couldn't edit post).

 

I'm not going to blame myself, lol. I did everything in my power to handle this as best I could. In the end, yes, probably dodged a bullet again.

 

I won't fall into the trap of people who get dumped. I won't make it my fault. I know my value, I know hers. **** doesn't add up.

 

If she wanted to be treated like an animal, she knew she was in the wrong place for it (hence her swift exit). There's no way I could have held the grudge forever... Anyone who knows me knows that.

 

No be strong was right...

 

You did everything wrong. And while you are learning you still don't get it.

 

It is not a question of treating her like ****. Never was. It was a question of letting her come into your house again and comforting her at all.

 

It is not an either or situation. You don't have to treat them like ****. The point is that you don't have to treat them like anything. You don't even have to talk to them.

 

I am glad she left anyway. It was the best thing that could happen to you, and you just barely realize it.

 

One day, you will really understand what we have been saying. And when you do, it will be like a light bulb going off in your head...

[somanymistakes]

It's not a matter of treating her like garbage. If you treat a woman like garbage and she stays, then at best you have a very unhealthy relationship with someone who hates herself. That's not what you wanted, that's not what you should want.

 

It's about boundaries and taking care of yourself. Both parties in a healthy relationship need boundaries. They need to be able to say no, to say "stop hurting me". Male or female, neither partner should give too much. If you martyr yourself for yourself in your partner, never expecting them to hold up their own end of things, then over time you will grow resentful and they will grow contemptuous.

 

I'm sorry that she let you down and hurt you again, and I do hope that the closure and certainty that she will never be a good partner for you helps you to heal.

[road]

Stoic, this shows, proves the addictive nature of affairs and

how broken your WW is. Stay strong, stay NC.

[Be_Strong]

Stoic, this shows, proves the addictive nature of affairs and

how broken your WW is. Stay strong, stay NC.

 

It also shows how important physical (sexual) attraction is for women. It’s an absolute fundamental foundation for most women to have a romantic relationship with a man.

 

Stoic was doing the rights things in his life after his wife left, which made him a more attractive mate. His wife took notice and probably started to feel an attraction that she hadn’t felt for a very long time. That caused her to want to go back to him and re-explore that relationship. He, of course, then did everything in his power to snuff out any possible attraction from her, which sent her running back to the other man.

 

Women in these affairs wish they were still attracted to their husband. All things being equal, they would much rather be back in the stable relationship with their husband. But these women would rather be shacked up with an ugly deadbeat loser in a flea motel that they are sexually attracted to, instead of with a good-looking successful husband in a nice house that they are not attracted to.

 

Once you figure out what attracts (and doesn’t attract) a woman, so many mysteries are answered. Just look at the In Search Of and Dating forums on this site for guys who just can’t figure out women. I just read a post recently from a guy who appears to have everything going for him on paper, but he continually gets friend-zoned. That was Stoic’s problem here—he went straight to the friend zone when his wife came back.

 

The biggest confusion with these guys is that they think this is a matter of being nice versus being an ******* to women. Stoic’s comments show this same confusion when he speaks of how he’s not going to apologize for being a nice guy. Women are attracted to courage, confidence and self-respect. Nothing about those qualities is mutually exclusive with being nice, polite or courteous. What often happens is that guys who have courage and confidence also tend to be *******s. The women are attracted to them despite them being an *******, not because of it.

[BluesPower]

It also shows how important physical (sexual) attraction is for women. It’s an absolute fundamental foundation for most women to have a romantic relationship with a man.

 

Stoic was doing the rights things in his life after his wife left, which made him a more attractive mate. His wife took notice and probably started to feel an attraction that she hadn’t felt for a very long time. That caused her to want to go back to him and re-explore that relationship. He, of course, then did everything in his power to snuff out any possible attraction from her, which sent her running back to the other man.

 

Women in these affairs wish they were still attracted to their husband. All things being equal, they would much rather be back in the stable relationship with their husband. But these women would rather be shacked up with an ugly deadbeat loser in a flea motel that they are sexually attracted to, instead of with a good-looking successful husband in a nice house that they are not attracted to.

 

Once you figure out what attracts (and doesn’t attract) a woman, so many mysteries are answered. Just look at the In Search Of and Dating forums on this site for guys who just can’t figure out women. I just read a post recently from a guy who appears to have everything going for him on paper, but he continually gets friend-zoned. That was Stoic’s problem here—he went straight to the friend zone when his wife came back.

 

The biggest confusion with these guys is that they think this is a matter of being nice versus being an ******* to women. Stoic’s comments show this same confusion when he speaks of how he’s not going to apologize for being a nice guy. Women are attracted to courage, confidence and self-respect. Nothing about those qualities is mutually exclusive with being nice, polite or courteous. What often happens is that guys who have courage and confidence also tend to be *******s. The women are attracted to them despite them being an *******, not because of it.

 

Some if this is correct...

 

And some is too simplistic. I am not sure that I even understand all of it myself.

 

But yes, SH did everything wrong, and it started with him even talking to her in the first place. He had no need to even speak with her, but he is not there yet. I think he will be in a few more years.

 

But it has to do with confidence and knowing your worth, and a lot of other things. Not just looks.

 

The thing is that those of use that have "it", whatever it is, actually have a hard time explaining it to others, or at least I do.

 

I think it comes down to this: If you want to be with me, and we want to be together, cool. If you want to split, cool.

 

If you ever thing about jerking me around for any reason, you are gone, toast, end of story.

 

If you want to be with me, you don't get to be shady, crazy, or bitchy. You just don't. Otherwise, you get ghosted.

 

I think you just have to know that there are a 1000 women out there that would like to be with you, so if one does not pan out, you move on the next one. It really seems simple to me.

 

And that is even more than just sleeping around, I myself am just board with that.

 

Found a nice girl, fell in love with each other, and we are just a happy as we can be. However, she also knows that if she does anything stupid, well that is it.

 

It seems to be that simple to me, but I am not sure...

[StoicHusband]

For me it comes down to this:

 

• My wife ****ed up. I know it, she knows it, we all know it.
  
• I care about her. I really do. I have a hard time hiding that.
  
• That level of care made me unable to hide my interest in the relationship.
  
• I was unable to hide my concern for her/our future.
  
• Once she saw that I didn't hate her and want her gone, she was no longer attracted.
  

 

This **** played out how it did. No changing it now. If I get another shot I'll take it. That's how I feel right now, but I'm moving forward with my life. Just on lunch right now. I feel like I'm in a better position to let her go then I was last time and though it hurts, I will be able to get over this.

 

I messaged her about the D papers this morning. She has yet to "see" it. I had to say what was on my mind also. Go ahead and tell me how bad I f***ed up:

 

"You were unable to face me after what you allowed him to put you through, there was no way to undo that shame... other than by returning to him. He's the only one who can make you feel better about it without any effort on your part. You'll always take the easy way out. You'll take two more weeks of him being sweet over two weeks of working to regain our closeness every time the choice is given. He played tough guy and you ran back faster than you can say "reverse psychology".

 

You've lost attraction to me, not because I'm not attractive, but because I see your hardships and take them on myself. I cared too deeply for you to see me as anything but a safety net. That net is gone. You're walking a tightrope. I certainly don't want to see you fall, whatever I said yesterday...

 

I'm done suffering for you. I've been the only one in it for a decade. Now there is no one in it for you at all. Not yourself, not him, not me. You're free-falling.

 

You need help. I only offered to go with you because I know you have none of the tools you need to face this situation regardless of what you decide. I hope that you are able to navigate the hell that you've chosen over our marriage. It was working Kelli. It was working two months ago when you left and it was working two days ago when you came back. I'm deeply disappointed with how you've given up on yourself, but I'm glad I got the chance to see it for myself."

Edited February 26, 2018 by StoicHusband

[BluesPower]

For me it comes down to this:

• My wife ****ed up. I know it, she knows it, we all know it.
  
• I care about her. I really do. I have a hard time hiding that.
  
• That level of care made me unable to hide my interest in the relationship.
  
• I was unable to hide my concern for her/our future.
  
• Once she saw that I didn't hate her and want her gone, she was no longer attracted.
  

This **** played out how it did. No changing it now. If I get another shot I'll take it. That's how I feel right now, but I'm moving forward with my life. Just on lunch right now. I feel like I'm in a better position to let her go then I was last time and though it hurts, I will be able to get over this.

 

I messaged her about the D papers this morning. She has yet to "see" it. I had to say what was on my mind also. Go ahead and tell me how bad I f***ed up:

 

"You were unable to face me after what you allowed him to put you through, there was no way to undo that shame... other than by returning to him. He's the only one who can make you feel better about it without any effort on your part. You'll always take the easy way out. You'll take two more weeks of him being sweet over two weeks of working to regain our closeness every time the choice is given. He played tough guy and you ran back faster than you can say "reverse psychology".

 

You've lost attraction to me, not because I'm not attractive, but because I see your hardships and take them on myself. I cared too deeply for you to see me as anything but a safety net. That net is gone. You're walking a tightrope. I certainly don't want to see you fall, whatever I said yesterday...

 

I'm done suffering for you. I've been the only one in it for a decade. Now there is no one in it for you at all. Not yourself, not him, not me. You're free-falling.

 

You need help. I only offered to go with you because I know you have none of the tools you need to face this situation regardless of what you decide. I hope that you are able to navigate the hell that you've chosen over our marriage. It was working Kelli. It was working two months ago when you left and it was working two days ago when you came back. I'm deeply disappointed with how you've given up on yourself, but I'm glad I got the chance to see it for myself."

 

Yes, you F'ed up... but what is new about you and this woman...

 

The good news is that you are moving forward, and doing well.

 

You see, in a year of two, you will look back over this time in your life and say, "What is the F*** was I thinking?". It will be mystery to you then as it is now.

 

You see, she does not care how much you love her, she never did and she never will. She does not care if you text her a 1000 letters, she just does not care.

 

Fact is that she never loved you, at all. Over time you will see it, but the good news is that you will know what to look for the next time. You will be wiser and smarter with women.

 

It won't happen all at once, but it will happen...

[StoicHusband]

Yes, you F'ed up... but what is new about you and this woman...

 

The good news is that you are moving forward, and doing well.

 

You see, in a year of two, you will look back over this time in your life and say, "What is the F*** was I thinking?". It will be mystery to you then as it is now.

 

Here's to the future.

 

...1000 letters...

 

That would be a bit much...

 

I kinda feel like she's just ****ed in the head and she's gonna definitely regret this. Speaking objectively as a person who knows her. I can tell she has no clue which way to turn right now. Not making excuses, just offering an explanation.

 

She's not going to knock me off my grind. I am where I wanna be. I've got my son, my home, my pets, my car, my jobs, more money than I know what to do with (literally) and more coming in. I'm off to work again now.

 

Chest hurts, barely eating, can't stop thinking about the events of the weekend, but I feel like it's all moving a bit faster than it did last time.

 

Been reaching out to friends.

Been working hard.

Been forcing food.

Remembering to focus on what I can control and not what I can't.

Been doing what worked last time... Surely I can't fail.

 

Hope is still a factor. It sucks but it's the honest truth. I feel like I can move forward knowing I will have the decision to make again about all this... Hopefully I'll handle it all better or just tell her to eat **** and die...

 

I'm going to start looking at some time out of the house for myself. Wish me luck.

[Rainah]

Keep us updated I've been reading your thread most of this evening, distracted me from smoking

[Be_Strong]

Your last message to your wife came across somewhat like a “sore loser” letter, but no worries, because it doesn’t matter what she thinks about you anymore.

[StoicHusband]

Your last message to your wife came across somewhat like a “sore loser” letter, but no worries, because it doesn’t matter what she thinks about you anymore.

 

Yup, not as long as she's hooked on that other guy.

 

Keep us updated I've been reading your thread most of this evening, distracted me from smoking

 

Wish I could say the same. Lol smoking like a freight train. I'm at work now. Waiting on supplies.

 

Reflecting on all this I don't feel like in in any worse, or better position to get what I want. I do want reconciliation. She magically read the mlc script to me this weekend. She either snaps out of it or not.

 

I attracted her back once, I can do it again. If not, I'll attract someone else.

 

Been doing the things that make me feel better. Running my budget in my head (fat paid). Smoking cigarettes, working, reaching out to friends....

 

I feel like this weekend had a lot of actions that worked out to a net of zero effect. She realized that she doesn't know what she wants, but she still thinks it isn't me.

 

Understand there is too much to go into in text, I was really in a rush writing about it. I'll give a much miss detailed post of I find I want to or that it would name r me feel better. Take me at my word that it was quite eventful, parts were bliss for both of us, parts were confusing for both of us, the ending was just as half hearted and uncertain as it was the first time.

 

Just thought I'd drop by. Thanks everyone for replying.

 

This website really does help.

[StoicHusband]

Right now I'm just hoping it's not starting over.

 

I thinking of her constantly again. I can't stop replaying it all in my head. We talked about some really stupid ****.

 

I just hate this. I dunno what else to say. Still at work. Thank God for that.

[Just a Guy]

Hi stoic, why don't you live up to your user name? Be a real stoic and forget about your stbx wife. Warm wishes.

[StoicHusband]

Hi stoic, why don't you live up to your user name? Be a real stoic and forget about your stbx wife. Warm wishes.

 

Quoted from a post on page 1 of my thread. Thanks for your response!

 

Thanks for the reply. Stoicism is something I discovered in the last 6 months and have put into practice. For instance once she left I didn't sit and cry, I cleaned the entire house because it's in my control. I spent more time with my son...

 

I am still learning. It isn't something I claim to be perfect at. Only something I have had great success with. For instance I'm just coming home off a 21 hour shift.

 

I have the ability to control my earnings, so I am focusing my efforts there. I still can't help but think of her while I work. I do constantly remind myself that her actions are out of my control and that is the nature of stoic teachings. It is not intended to completely separate us from those that we love, nor is it intended to make us machines.

 

It's interesting to me that the thread has seemingly come full-circle. It's a good sign, for sure. I progressed very quickly last time around and I'm sure I will again.

 

I'm thinking of her constantly again. I can't stop replaying it all in my head... (Not always in my control) Still at work. Thank God for that. (Always in my control)

 

Thanks again Just A Guy. I do appreciate all input. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Edited February 27, 2018 by StoicHusband
Quotes

[StoicHusband]

Reflecting on all this I don't feel like in in any worse, or better position to get what I want. I do want reconciliation. She basically* read the mlc script to me this weekend. She either snaps out of it or not.

 

I attracted her back once, I can do it again. If not, I'll attract someone else.

 

I feel like this weekend had a lot of actions that worked out to a net of zero effect.

 

This^ I could use some input on. I really do feel like none of this weekend mattered. She is still just as fu**ed up as she has been. She doesn't know what the hell she's doing.

 

I don't intend to dwell on it forever. I just find myself searching for a way to feel like I felt before she came home and left.

[Just a Guy]

Hi stoic, inspite of everything you've written about trying to imbibe the principles of stoicism I think you are a softie at heart. I am not saying that in a deprecating way but more as a statement of fact. In fact I think that if you are truly able to imbibe the principles of stoicism it will help you tremendously in the future. What I understand of stoicism from the little I read of it in history books is that it is an attitude of making oneself impervious to one's natural human feelings both emotional and physical. In it's extreme form it was something which made a person heartless but it was cultivated by a section of Greeks who trained themselves as warriors. This conditioning made them impervious to pain and loss of friends and relatives in battle and therefore made them an effective fighting force. I may be wrong in my interpretation and someone more knowledgeable about the subject is welcome to correct me. However , for this discussion I think what I have described suffices to drive home my point. In any case others better qualified and more experienced will be able to help you on your journey with good advice. You will be needing it in dollops. Warm wishes.